Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Does anyone know of a good systemic enzyme product comparable to Wobenzym in terms of ingredients, but without a boatload of fillers like Wobenzym? Also, it needs to be a tablet, preferably chewable. Relatedly, Wobenzym is enteric coated. I cut the tablets and give 1/2 tab to my elderly dog several times per day. Does anyone know if this means the product will be less effective? Here's the ingredient list if that will help answer my question. Pancreatin*** 56,000 USP-units protease (pancreas) Susscrofa 300 mg * Papain*** 492 FIP-unit † Carica papaya 180 mg * Bromelain *** 675 FIP-unit † Ananus camosus 135 mg * Trypsin*** 2160 FIP-unit † (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg * Chymotrypsin*** 900 FIP-unit † (pancreas Bos taurus 3 mg * Rutosid *** •3H 2 0 (Rutin) sophora japonica 150 mg * TIA! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Dear Suze, Wonderful idea to give to your dog digestive enzymes. Pets also need to be healthy. The Wobenzym product contains animal and vegetable derived proteases. There are no a lot of studies compairing animal vs non-animal vs vegetable derived enzymes, however a paper from DR. Brad Rachman (Rachman, B.(1997), " Unique Feature and Application of Non-Animal derived Enzymes " , Clinical Nutrition Insights, Vol. 5, No. 10: pp1-4) seems to indicate superior performance of fungal enzymes. It seems that one advantage with fungal enzymes is their superior stability in the stomach. In order to prevent degradation in the acid " milieu " of the stomach, animal derived enzymes are coated, but the reference points that it is also disadvatageous. So maybe one sugestion for you is to move to fungal enzymes, which are commun in the US. Also note that if you buy pet food for your dog, that food contains a lot of vegetable ingredients such as corn, soy, wheat bran and/or rice bran, so if this is the case you should better use a mix of enzymes containing proteases, amylases, lipases and various carbohydrases (alfagalactosidase, betaglucosidase, xylanase). Regards, VICTOR > > Does anyone know of a good systemic enzyme product comparable to Wobenzym in > terms of ingredients, but without a boatload of fillers like Wobenzym? Also, > it needs to be a tablet, preferably chewable. > > Relatedly, Wobenzym is enteric coated. I cut the tablets and give 1/ 2 tab to > my elderly dog several times per day. Does anyone know if this means the > product will be less effective? Here's the ingredient list if that will help > answer my question. > > Pancreatin*** 56,000 USP-units protease (pancreas) Susscrofa 300 mg * > Papain*** 492 FIP-unit † Carica papaya 180 mg * > Bromelain *** 675 FIP-unit † Ananus camosus 135 mg * > Trypsin*** 2160 FIP-unit † (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 mg * > Chymotrypsin*** 900 FIP-unit † (pancreas Bos taurus 3 mg * > Rutosid *** •3H 2 0 (Rutin) sophora japonica 150 mg * > > TIA! > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " - - > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 Hi Suze, The animal derived enzyme tablets are enterically coated so that they will not be utilized until they get to the small intestine. They cannot survive the high acid environment of the stomach. When you cut them in half, it does impair their effectiveness. It is best to use plant derived enzymes because they can not only survive the stomach, they also start working there which is a good thing. bb ................................................. --- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > Does anyone know of a good systemic enzyme product > comparable to Wobenzym in > terms of ingredients, but without a boatload of > fillers like Wobenzym? Also, > it needs to be a tablet, preferably chewable. > > Relatedly, Wobenzym is enteric coated. I cut the > tablets and give 1/2 tab to > my elderly dog several times per day. Does anyone > know if this means the > product will be less effective? Here's the > ingredient list if that will help > answer my question. > > Pancreatin*** 56,000 USP-units protease (pancreas) > Susscrofa 300 mg * > Papain*** 492 FIP-unit † Carica papaya 180 mg * > Bromelain *** 675 FIP-unit † Ananus camosus 135 mg > * > Trypsin*** 2160 FIP-unit † (pancreas) Sus scrofa 72 > mg * > Chymotrypsin*** 900 FIP-unit † (pancreas Bos taurus > 3 mg * > Rutosid *** •3H 2 0 (Rutin) sophora japonica 150 mg > * > > TIA! > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast > Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats > and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception > of our times.” -- > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and > Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > > > > > __________________________________ for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand./cybergivingweek2005/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2006 Report Share Posted January 1, 2006 I haven't found a chewable systemic pancreatic enzyme. Usually, the pancreatic ones are not meant to be chewed or opened because their effectiveness is decreased greatly in the stomach acid. Could your dog take one of the microbially derived enzymes? There are those types for pets. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of jornmatt > > >I haven't found a chewable systemic pancreatic enzyme. Usually, the >pancreatic ones are not meant to be chewed or opened because their >effectiveness is decreased greatly in the stomach acid. Could your dog >take one of the microbially derived enzymes? There are those types for >pets. > >. , I'm open to taking microbially-derived enzymes. I forgot to mention that I'm also looking for one for *myself*, also without the fillers if possible. It can be in any form. But for my dog it should be a tablet that's not enterically coated. OR, I could give her an enterically coated tablet hidden in a tiny ball of minced meat. Do you think that would work OK? It would be the smallest amount of meat to fit around the tablet as possible. I know some of the enzymes would be used to digest the meat, but certainly not all, I imagine. The problem though, is that she's only 11 lbs, so one whole tablet of any systemic enzyme might be too much to give her at one sitting. Any suggestions? And I'd love any ideas about which microbially derived enzyme products you think would be good for her (she has disc issues and is 15 yrs old) and for me (I want them for cleaning up any immune complexes I might have floating around). TIA! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of victorhugo155 > > >Dear Suze, > >Wonderful idea to give to your dog digestive enzymes. Pets also need >to be healthy. > >The Wobenzym product contains animal and vegetable derived proteases. >There are no a lot of studies compairing animal vs non-animal vs >vegetable derived enzymes, however a paper from DR. Brad Rachman >(Rachman, B.(1997), " Unique Feature and Application of Non-Animal >derived Enzymes " , Clinical Nutrition Insights, Vol. 5, No. 10: pp1-4) >seems to indicate superior performance of fungal enzymes. >It seems that one advantage with fungal enzymes is their superior >stability in the stomach. In order to prevent degradation in the acid > " milieu " of the stomach, animal derived enzymes are coated, but the >reference points that it is also disadvatageous. Victor, thanks so much for that reference! The reason I like using Wobenzym is primarily because it's been so well researched, so I know it works. But I really don't like all the yucky fillers. I'm perfectly willing to try fungal derived enzymes, but I'm not convinced that pancreatic enzymes (which would be my first choice) are destroyed by stomach acid. That's largely based on the testimony of , MD, the cancer doc who uses pancreatic enzymes as a foundation of his cancer treatment and is emphatic that they are not destroyed by stomach acid. He also has an impressive list of citations to back up his clinical experience. BUT, I don't want to take a chance that he's wrong - I just want a product that I'm confident works, and it needs to be in tablet form for my dog. Also note that if you buy pet food for your dog, >that food contains a lot of vegetable ingredients such as corn, soy, >wheat bran and/or rice bran, so if this is the case you should better >use a mix of enzymes containing proteases, amylases, lipases and >various carbohydrases (alfagalactosidase, betaglucosidase, xylanase). Heh, I feed my dogs a raw prey model-based diet with NO veggies or grains whatsoever, except an occasional scrap off my plate. But some of their supps do contain starches so I recently started giving them Digest (from Enzymedica) with their meals. Plus the get a multi-enzyme product with some plant-based enzymes as well. Thanks for your help! Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Dear Suze, There are so many black holes in the knowledge of exogenous enzyme actions inside the body that it seems that the best deal for you is to test those enzyme products that you believe can be useful for your case. The references can be useful in order to know how safe can be a particular product or enzyme mix. I have been using fungal enzymes (alone) and fungal plus bromelain. And even a fungal mix with low protease activity provide healing of acid reflux, irritable bowel syndrome, arthritis and ADD. In that way, I can provide references on fungal enzymes, unfortunatelly not on animal derived. Regards, VICTOR > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: > >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of victorhugo155 > > > > > > >Dear Suze, > > > >Wonderful idea to give to your dog digestive enzymes. Pets also need > >to be healthy. > > > >The Wobenzym product contains animal and vegetable derived proteases. > >There are no a lot of studies compairing animal vs non-animal vs > >vegetable derived enzymes, however a paper from DR. Brad Rachman > >(Rachman, B.(1997), " Unique Feature and Application of Non-Animal > >derived Enzymes " , Clinical Nutrition Insights, Vol. 5, No. 10: pp1- 4) > >seems to indicate superior performance of fungal enzymes. > >It seems that one advantage with fungal enzymes is their superior > >stability in the stomach. In order to prevent degradation in the acid > > " milieu " of the stomach, animal derived enzymes are coated, but the > >reference points that it is also disadvatageous. > > Victor, thanks so much for that reference! > > The reason I like using Wobenzym is primarily because it's been so well > researched, so I know it works. But I really don't like all the yucky > fillers. I'm perfectly willing to try fungal derived enzymes, but I'm not > convinced that pancreatic enzymes (which would be my first choice) are > destroyed by stomach acid. That's largely based on the testimony of > , MD, the cancer doc who uses pancreatic enzymes as a foundation of > his cancer treatment and is emphatic that they are not destroyed by stomach > acid. He also has an impressive list of citations to back up his clinical > experience. BUT, I don't want to take a chance that he's wrong - I just want > a product that I'm confident works, and it needs to be in tablet form for my > dog. > > Also note that if you buy pet food for your dog, > >that food contains a lot of vegetable ingredients such as corn, soy, > >wheat bran and/or rice bran, so if this is the case you should better > >use a mix of enzymes containing proteases, amylases, lipases and > >various carbohydrases (alfagalactosidase, betaglucosidase, xylanase). > > Heh, I feed my dogs a raw prey model-based diet with NO veggies or grains > whatsoever, except an occasional scrap off my plate. But some of their supps > do contain starches so I recently started giving them Digest (from > Enzymedica) with their meals. Plus the get a multi-enzyme product with some > plant-based enzymes as well. > > Thanks for your help! > > > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " - - > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 Hi Suze, There is an article in the Files for this group which tells how to buy enzymes. Not all enzymes are effective so it is important to shop carefully. If you get a plant derived enzyme mixture, you can open the capsule and mix whatever amount you think best in with your dog's food. bb ................................................................ --- Suze Fisher <s.fisher22@...> wrote: > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: > >[mailto: ]On Behalf > Of jornmatt > > > > > > >I haven't found a chewable systemic pancreatic > enzyme. Usually, the > >pancreatic ones are not meant to be chewed or > opened because their > >effectiveness is decreased greatly in the stomach > acid. Could your dog > >take one of the microbially derived enzymes? There > are those types for > >pets. > > > >. > > , > > I'm open to taking microbially-derived enzymes. I > forgot to mention that I'm > also looking for one for *myself*, also without the > fillers if possible. It > can be in any form. But for my dog it should be a > tablet that's not > enterically coated. OR, I could give her an > enterically coated tablet hidden > in a tiny ball of minced meat. Do you think that > would work OK? It would be > the smallest amount of meat to fit around the tablet > as possible. I know > some of the enzymes would be used to digest the > meat, but certainly not all, > I imagine. The problem though, is that she's only 11 > lbs, so one whole > tablet of any systemic enzyme might be too much to > give her at one sitting. > > Any suggestions? And I'd love any ideas about which > microbially derived > enzyme products you think would be good for her (she > has disc issues and is > 15 yrs old) and for me (I want them for cleaning up > any immune complexes I > might have floating around). > > TIA! > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast > Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats > and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception > of our times.” -- > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and > Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > > > > __________________________________________ DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2006 Report Share Posted January 2, 2006 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Bonnie Beale > > > >Hi Suze, > >There is an article in the Files for this group which >tells how to buy enzymes. Not all enzymes are >effective so it is important to shop carefully. If you >get a plant derived enzyme mixture, you can open the >capsule and mix whatever amount you think best in with >your dog's food. Thanks Bonnie! That's a good idea - if you meant mixing a systemic enzyme with a tidbit of food. I alreadly mix various *digestive* enzymes into her meals. And thanks for reminding me about the resources in the files section. I shall take a look. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 Dog's stomach pH is different from humans...I believe it is much more acid (as in dissolving bones, etc.) but look it up. It would make a difference in enzyme activity. Peace, Kathy E. > > , > > I'm open to taking microbially-derived enzymes. I forgot to mention that I'm > also looking for one for *myself*, also without the fillers if possible. It > can be in any form. But for my dog it should be a tablet that's not > enterically coated. OR, I could give her an enterically coated tablet hidden > in a tiny ball of minced meat. Do you think that would work OK? It would be > the smallest amount of meat to fit around the tablet as possible. I know > some of the enzymes would be used to digest the meat, but certainly not all, > I imagine. The problem though, is that she's only 11 lbs, so one whole > tablet of any systemic enzyme might be too much to give her at one sitting. > > Any suggestions? And I'd love any ideas about which microbially derived > enzyme products you think would be good for her (she has disc issues and is > 15 yrs old) and for me (I want them for cleaning up any immune complexes I > might have floating around). > > TIA! > > Suze Fisher > Lapdog Design, Inc. > Web Design & Development > http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg > Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine > http://www.westonaprice.org > > ---------------------------- > " The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause > heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times. " -- > Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt > University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. > > The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics > <http://www.thincs.org> > ---------------------------- > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2006 Report Share Posted January 3, 2006 >-----Original Message----- >From: >[mailto: ]On Behalf Of Kathleen Eickwort > > >Dog's stomach pH is different from humans...I believe it is much >more acid (as in >dissolving bones, etc.) but look it up. Nope, that's a myth that gets passed around the pet health lists but has no basis in fact. I already looked it up years ago. Their's is just like ours - about 2.0 or thereabouts during digestion. Suze Fisher Lapdog Design, Inc. Web Design & Development http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze3shjg Weston A. Price Foundation Chapter Leader, Mid Coast Maine http://www.westonaprice.org ---------------------------- “The diet-heart idea (the idea that saturated fats and cholesterol cause heart disease) is the greatest scientific deception of our times.” -- Mann, MD, former Professor of Medicine and Biochemistry at Vanderbilt University, Tennessee; heart disease researcher. The International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics <http://www.thincs.org> ---------------------------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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