Re: 9 year-old who doesn't respond to chelation anymore - Andy and others please

[Guest guest]

> After 2-3 months the improvements stopped and I increased the dosage

> from 12.5mg to 18.75mg for 2 rounds. Nothing happened and he slowly

> started backsliding. I thought maybe the dose is too high and

> decreased back to 12.5mg. It didn't help.

What about his mineral levels? Also, what is your yeast protocol?

> Calcium 1,115 mg in the morning

This is rather high.

> Vit. A 15,000 IU in the evening

This might be too high. Try dropping it, or reduce down to 5000 IU.

> Selenium (Se yeast) 200 mg in the afternoon

This is probably high. Most people recommend 100mcg. If you actually

meant to type mg instead of mcg, then it is REALLY high.

Is your child chronically constipated?

> B-50 1 tablet in 3 doses

How much in 1 tablet?

> Molybdenum 250 mg in the evening

This is probably high.

> I have treated what I thought was yeast with NF and GSE and he has

> been taking a capsule of Culturelle daily for about 2 weeks. Was

> taking Houstons Suprema Dophilus before.

This is probably not enough for yeast control if chelation is pulling

metals. Try giving NF and GSE 2-3x per day, see if that helps.

> His newest symptoms are hair loss

This is commonly caused by biotin deficiency.

Dana

[Guest guest]

>

> What about his mineral levels? Also, what is your yeast protocol?

>

How would one know their mineral levels?

in Illinois

[Guest guest]

>

> What about his mineral levels? Also, what is your yeast protocol?

I don't know his mineral levels except for what the hair test showed

before chelation.

Yeast protocol has been 5 drops of GSE in the morning with

breakfast and one cap of NF and another 5 drops of GSE at bedtime on

on round. Off round just the 5 drops in the morning. We did alot

less for yeast when he was doing so well in the beginning.

> > Calcium 1,115 mg in the morning

>

>

> This is rather high.

Would this do anything negative?

>> Vit. A 15,000 IU in the evening

>

>

> This might be too high. Try dropping it, or reduce down to 5000

IU.

What could this do? It thought the recommendation was 5 RDAs, 15000

IU is still below that I think.

> > Selenium (Se yeast) 200 mg in the afternoon

>

>

> This is probably high. Most people recommend 100mcg. If you

actually

> meant to type mg instead of mcg, then it is REALLY high.

I meant to type mcg. And it is 100 mcg, I confused myself because

the pills are 200 mcg, but he takes only half a pill. Sorry for the

confusion.

> Is your child chronically constipated?

>

No, he was super regular before chelation, now he's not anymore, but

not constipated either.

> > B-50 1 tablet in 3 doses

>

>

> How much in 1 tablet?

This is a regular B-50 complex pill.

> > Molybdenum 250 mg in the evening

>

>

> This is probably high.

>

How much would you give?

Try giving NF and GSE 2-3x per day, see if that helps.

I have been giving it twice on round. I'm just not even sure anymore

that he *has yeast.

> This is commonly caused by biotin deficiency.

Could chelation cause biotin deficiency?

Thanks for your help.

Jutta

[Guest guest]

It is crucially important that parents (and hopefully physicians)

understand the natural history of mercury detoxification to avoid

emotional distress as well as to avoid giving up and denying your

child eventual wellness.

What you EXPECT to happen, as a natural consequence of how the body

clears mercury, is that when you chelate you will see progress for the

first few months, then it will stop. You need to keep chelating! If

you don't chelate enough, they actually get worse for a while.

As long as you keep chelating, progress will resume at 9-15 months

after you started. Then you chelate chelate chelate chelate until they

get all better.

If you stop chelating due to the initial stall in progress, they won't

get all better.

If you chelate and see progress in the first few months you need to

stick with it for a couple of years. Don't stop. The progress will

come back.

This is described in somewhat more detail in figure 15 on page 52 of

Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. www.noamalgam.com .

> Hi

> I started chelation with ALA for my 9 yo son, who is autistic on

> the higher funtioning end, in January. His hairtest didn't meet the

> counting rules, but I was advised to do a trial anyway because of

> his dx and exposure history (had all his baby and toddler vaccines

> and was breastfed by a mom with amalgam fillings).

>

> At first we saw great improvements, especially in social and

> emotional connectedness (is this a real word?), ability to handle

> frustrating events much better and just being more balanced

> emotionally and outright pleasant at times, which was a biggie.

This means mercury is the problem and chelation is the solution!

> After 2-3 months the improvements stopped

as it does with almost all toxic people, adults and children. If you

keep chelating, it will start back up again in a while.

> and I increased the dosage

> from 12.5mg to 18.75mg for 2 rounds. Nothing happened and he slowly

> started backsliding.

This can happen, you have to just keep chelating and stick it out.

> I thought maybe the dose is too high and

> decreased back to 12.5mg. It didn't help.

>

> Right now his eye contact is a bad as ever, he is having tantrums

> over little things, is defiant and also physical with his younger

> sister at times. He curses and is constantly in a bad mood and ready

> to argue. He will do socially totally unacceptable things, like

> pointing at people or saying stuff to strangers.

Now is the time to use lots of supportive therapies as well as chelate

chelate chelate. This will pass.

> I can't tell for sure if he's better on or off round or if anything

> is making a difference anymore.

Just stick with the program you have now, and chelate chelate chelate.

Things are changing rapidly in his body and you won't be able to

figure it out for a few months until he settles down.

> I was really encouraged at first and

> totally bummed now.

Stay focussed on the early encouragement. If you keep chelating it

will come back, and get even better.

> I need guidance about how to proceed.

Keep chelating, be patient, use reasonable interventions to help him

over this rough part. E. g. 25,000 IU vitamin A, inositol (1 tsp a

day), C and Mg and B complex several times a day. Whatever else

works. It sounds like maybe adrenal cortex would help.

> I am posting his test results in hopes that someone sees something

> I overlooked, something that is pointing to a specific problem maybe.

The problem is just that you aren't aware of how thigns go when you

chelate people, you are upset when he is reacting exactly as you'd

expect him to.

> Further down is going to be a list of his current supplements as

> well.

>

> POTENTIALLY TOXIC ELEMENTS

>

> element result ref range color

>

> =============================================

>

> aluminum 8.1 <8.0 yellow

>

> antimony 0.18 <0.066 yellow

>

> arsenic 0.048 <0.080 <none>

>

> beryllium <0.01 <0.020 green

>

> bismuth 0.11 <0.12 green

>

> cadmium 0.27 <0.15 yellow

>

> lead 0.97 <1.0 green

>

> mercury 0.18 <0.40 green

>

> platinum <0.003 <0.005 <none>

>

> thallium <0.001 <o.o1o <none>

>

> thorium <0.001 <0.005 <none>

>

> uranium 0.084 <0.060 yellow

>

> nickel 0.15 <0.40 green

>

> silver 0.10 <0.13 green

>

> tin 0.39 <0.30 yellow

>

> titanium 0.46 <1.0 green

>

> ESSENTIAL AND OTHER ELEMENTS

>

> element result ref range color under/over 50%

>

> ============================================================

>

> Calcium 817 160-500 yellow over

>

> Magnesium 94 12-50 yellow over

>

> Sodium 41 12-90 white over

>

> Potassium 33 10-40 green over

>

> Copper 11 0.9-30 green under

>

> Zinc 190 10-190 green over

>

> Manganese 0.22 0.18-0.60 green under

>

> Chromium 0.36 0.23-0.50 green over

>

> Vanadium 0.037 0.025-0.19 green under

>

> Molybdenum 0.058 0.040-0.089 white over

>

> Boron 2.9 0.50-3.5 green over

>

> Iodine 0.43 0.25-1.3 green under

>

> Lithium 0.010 0.007-0.023 white at 50%

>

> Phosphorus 182 160-250 green under

>

> Selenium 0.68 0.95-1.7 yellow under

>

> Strontium 4.8 0.21-2.1 yellow over

>

> Sulfur 52600 45500-53000 green over

>

> Barium 1.2 0.19-1.6 green over

>

> Cobalt 0.019 0.013-0.035 green under

>

> Iron 11 6.0-17 green over

>

> Germanium 0.035 0.045-0.065 yellow under

>

> Rubidium 0.041 0.008-0.080 green over

>

> Zirconium 0.18 0.060-0.70 green under

>

>

> He does get some of the minerals from differnt sources, I have a

> Calcium/Magnesium/Zinc pill for instance in the morning and

> additional Magnesium and Zinc later in the day, so I'll post the

> total mgs and in how many doses it is divided over the day.

>

> Ester C 1,500 mg in 3 doses

> Calcium 1,115 mg in the morning

> Magnesium 600 mg in 3 doses

> Zinc 45 mg with 150 mg Histidine in 3 doses

> Vit. E 400 IU in the afternoon

> Vit. A 15,000 IU in the evening

> Selenium (Se yeast) 200 mg in the afternoon

> B-50 1 tablet in 3 doses

> NN Omega 3-6-9 1 Junior 1 cap morning and evening

> Molybdenum 250 mg in the evening

> Milk Thistle drops in 3 doses (don't know the exact mg right now but

> I figured it out at the beginning and it's within " Andy-recommended "

> range

>

> He also takes HOustons enzymes, all three, with his meals but not

> all snacks anymore.

>

> I have treated what I thought was yeast with NF and GSE and he has

> been taking a capsule of Culturelle daily for about 2 weeks. Was

> taking Houstons Suprema Dophilus before.

>

> I've tried L-Tyrosine for attention and focus but it didn't help.

>

> His newest symptoms are hair loss and poor appetite, he has had

> those for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if they are related to

> chelation or mercury.

>

> Thanks to anyone in advance who is willing to take a stab at this.

>

> Jutta

>

[Guest guest]

> Just stick with the program you have now, and chelate chelate

chelate.

> Things are changing rapidly in his body and you won't be able to

> figure it out for a few months until he settles down.

Andy, should I keep his supplements the same except for the

suggestions you made below?

> Keep chelating, be patient, use reasonable interventions to help

him

> over this rough part. E. g. 25,000 IU vitamin A, inositol (1 tsp a

> day), C and Mg and B complex several times a day. Whatever else

> works. It sounds like maybe adrenal cortex would help.

Can you explain briefly why you think he needs adrenal cortex? Is it

something on the hair test? I just like to understand why I'm doing

stuff.

> The problem is just that you aren't aware of how thigns go when you

> chelate people, you are upset when he is reacting exactly as you'd

> expect him to.

I really thought I did. I expected the stall but not the backslide

with no improvements for a few months. I kept thinking yeast might

mask improvements but I can really not tell a difference when giving

GSE. Should I still continue to give it?

Do you think the hair loss and decreased appetite have anything to

do with chelation or mercury?

Thank you so much for your help!

Jutta

[Guest guest]

Andy,

Thanks for keeping with us!

You are a real indefatiguable STAR!

[ ] Re: 9 year-old who doesn't respond to chelation

anymore - Andy and others please

> It is crucially important that parents (and hopefully physicians)

> understand the natural history of mercury detoxification to avoid

> emotional distress as well as to avoid giving up and denying your

> child eventual wellness.

>

> What you EXPECT to happen, as a natural consequence of how the body

> clears mercury, is that when you chelate you will see progress for the

> first few months, then it will stop. You need to keep chelating! If

> you don't chelate enough, they actually get worse for a while.

>

> As long as you keep chelating, progress will resume at 9-15 months

> after you started. Then you chelate chelate chelate chelate until they

> get all better.

>

> If you stop chelating due to the initial stall in progress, they won't

> get all better.

>

> If you chelate and see progress in the first few months you need to

> stick with it for a couple of years. Don't stop. The progress will

> come back.

>

> This is described in somewhat more detail in figure 15 on page 52 of

> Amalgam Illness: Diagnosis and Treatment. www.noamalgam.com .

>

>> Hi

>> I started chelation with ALA for my 9 yo son, who is autistic on

>> the higher funtioning end, in January. His hairtest didn't meet the

>> counting rules, but I was advised to do a trial anyway because of

>> his dx and exposure history (had all his baby and toddler vaccines

>> and was breastfed by a mom with amalgam fillings).

>>

>> At first we saw great improvements, especially in social and

>> emotional connectedness (is this a real word?), ability to handle

>> frustrating events much better and just being more balanced

>> emotionally and outright pleasant at times, which was a biggie.

>

> This means mercury is the problem and chelation is the solution!

>

>> After 2-3 months the improvements stopped

>

> as it does with almost all toxic people, adults and children. If you

> keep chelating, it will start back up again in a while.

>

>> and I increased the dosage

>> from 12.5mg to 18.75mg for 2 rounds. Nothing happened and he slowly

>> started backsliding.

>

> This can happen, you have to just keep chelating and stick it out.

>

>> I thought maybe the dose is too high and

>> decreased back to 12.5mg. It didn't help.

>>

>> Right now his eye contact is a bad as ever, he is having tantrums

>> over little things, is defiant and also physical with his younger

>> sister at times. He curses and is constantly in a bad mood and ready

>> to argue. He will do socially totally unacceptable things, like

>> pointing at people or saying stuff to strangers.

>

> Now is the time to use lots of supportive therapies as well as chelate

> chelate chelate. This will pass.

>

>> I can't tell for sure if he's better on or off round or if anything

>> is making a difference anymore.

>

> Just stick with the program you have now, and chelate chelate chelate.

> Things are changing rapidly in his body and you won't be able to

> figure it out for a few months until he settles down.

>

>> I was really encouraged at first and

>> totally bummed now.

>

> Stay focussed on the early encouragement. If you keep chelating it

> will come back, and get even better.

>

>> I need guidance about how to proceed.

>

> Keep chelating, be patient, use reasonable interventions to help him

> over this rough part. E. g. 25,000 IU vitamin A, inositol (1 tsp a

> day), C and Mg and B complex several times a day. Whatever else

> works. It sounds like maybe adrenal cortex would help.

>

>> I am posting his test results in hopes that someone sees something

>> I overlooked, something that is pointing to a specific problem maybe.

>

> The problem is just that you aren't aware of how thigns go when you

> chelate people, you are upset when he is reacting exactly as you'd

> expect him to.

>

>> Further down is going to be a list of his current supplements as

>> well.

>>

>> POTENTIALLY TOXIC ELEMENTS

>>

>> element result ref range color

>>

>> =============================================

>>

>> aluminum 8.1 <8.0 yellow

>>

>> antimony 0.18 <0.066 yellow

>>

>> arsenic 0.048 <0.080 <none>

>>

>> beryllium <0.01 <0.020 green

>>

>> bismuth 0.11 <0.12 green

>>

>> cadmium 0.27 <0.15 yellow

>>

>> lead 0.97 <1.0 green

>>

>> mercury 0.18 <0.40 green

>>

>> platinum <0.003 <0.005 <none>

>>

>> thallium <0.001 <o.o1o <none>

>>

>> thorium <0.001 <0.005 <none>

>>

>> uranium 0.084 <0.060 yellow

>>

>> nickel 0.15 <0.40 green

>>

>> silver 0.10 <0.13 green

>>

>> tin 0.39 <0.30 yellow

>>

>> titanium 0.46 <1.0 green

>>

>> ESSENTIAL AND OTHER ELEMENTS

>>

>> element result ref range color under/over 50%

>>

>> ============================================================

>>

>> Calcium 817 160-500 yellow over

>>

>> Magnesium 94 12-50 yellow over

>>

>> Sodium 41 12-90 white over

>>

>> Potassium 33 10-40 green over

>>

>> Copper 11 0.9-30 green under

>>

>> Zinc 190 10-190 green over

>>

>> Manganese 0.22 0.18-0.60 green under

>>

>> Chromium 0.36 0.23-0.50 green over

>>

>> Vanadium 0.037 0.025-0.19 green under

>>

>> Molybdenum 0.058 0.040-0.089 white over

>>

>> Boron 2.9 0.50-3.5 green over

>>

>> Iodine 0.43 0.25-1.3 green under

>>

>> Lithium 0.010 0.007-0.023 white at 50%

>>

>> Phosphorus 182 160-250 green under

>>

>> Selenium 0.68 0.95-1.7 yellow under

>>

>> Strontium 4.8 0.21-2.1 yellow over

>>

>> Sulfur 52600 45500-53000 green over

>>

>> Barium 1.2 0.19-1.6 green over

>>

>> Cobalt 0.019 0.013-0.035 green under

>>

>> Iron 11 6.0-17 green over

>>

>> Germanium 0.035 0.045-0.065 yellow under

>>

>> Rubidium 0.041 0.008-0.080 green over

>>

>> Zirconium 0.18 0.060-0.70 green under

>>

>>

>> He does get some of the minerals from differnt sources, I have a

>> Calcium/Magnesium/Zinc pill for instance in the morning and

>> additional Magnesium and Zinc later in the day, so I'll post the

>> total mgs and in how many doses it is divided over the day.

>>

>> Ester C 1,500 mg in 3 doses

>> Calcium 1,115 mg in the morning

>> Magnesium 600 mg in 3 doses

>> Zinc 45 mg with 150 mg Histidine in 3 doses

>> Vit. E 400 IU in the afternoon

>> Vit. A 15,000 IU in the evening

>> Selenium (Se yeast) 200 mg in the afternoon

>> B-50 1 tablet in 3 doses

>> NN Omega 3-6-9 1 Junior 1 cap morning and evening

>> Molybdenum 250 mg in the evening

>> Milk Thistle drops in 3 doses (don't know the exact mg right now but

>> I figured it out at the beginning and it's within " Andy-recommended "

>> range

>>

>> He also takes HOustons enzymes, all three, with his meals but not

>> all snacks anymore.

>>

>> I have treated what I thought was yeast with NF and GSE and he has

>> been taking a capsule of Culturelle daily for about 2 weeks. Was

>> taking Houstons Suprema Dophilus before.

>>

>> I've tried L-Tyrosine for attention and focus but it didn't help.

>>

>> His newest symptoms are hair loss and poor appetite, he has had

>> those for a couple of weeks now. I don't know if they are related to

>> chelation or mercury.

>>

>> Thanks to anyone in advance who is willing to take a stab at this.

>>

>> Jutta

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> =======================================================

>

[Guest guest]

> > Just stick with the program you have now, and chelate chelate

> chelate.

> > Things are changing rapidly in his body and you won't be able to

> > figure it out for a few months until he settles down.

>

> Andy, should I keep his supplements the same except for the

> suggestions you made below?

Yes. Now is not the time to try to change things around much.

> > Keep chelating, be patient, use reasonable interventions to help

> him

> > over this rough part. E. g. 25,000 IU vitamin A, inositol (1 tsp a

> > day), C and Mg and B complex several times a day. Whatever else

> > works. It sounds like maybe adrenal cortex would help.

>

> Can you explain briefly why you think he needs adrenal cortex?

I'm not sure if he does or not.

> Is it

> something on the hair test?

No.

> I just like to understand why I'm doing

> stuff.

It might be related to oppositional, aggressive and obsessional

behaviors.

> > The problem is just that you aren't aware of how thigns go when you

> > chelate people, you are upset when he is reacting exactly as you'd

> > expect him to.

>

> I really thought I did. I expected the stall but not the backslide

> with no improvements for a few months.

That is what you expect. A stall and maybe even backsliding, for may

months.

> I kept thinking yeast might

> mask improvements but I can really not tell a difference when giving

> GSE. Should I still continue to give it?

Up to you.

> Do you think the hair loss and decreased appetite have anything to

> do with chelation or mercury?

This is very unclear.

> Thank you so much for your help!

>

> Jutta

>

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> > What about his mineral levels? Also, what is your yeast protocol?

> >

>

>

> How would one know their mineral levels?

You can have that tested, either hair or blood. I don't do testing

for my kids, I " test by observation " , so others can give you more info

on specific tests to request.

Dana

[Guest guest]

> Yeast protocol has been 5 drops of GSE in the morning with

> breakfast and one cap of NF and another 5 drops of GSE at bedtime on

> on round. Off round just the 5 drops in the morning. We did alot

> less for yeast when he was doing so well in the beginning.

I had to give GSE with each dose of chelator, so watch for that

potential requirement.

> > > Calcium 1,115 mg in the morning

> >

> > This is rather high.

>

> Would this do anything negative?

Calcification of organs is listed as a known symptom. For my son,

hyper and severe oppositional/defiance. Kidney stones [see previous

message].

> >> Vit. A 15,000 IU in the evening

> >

> > This might be too high. Try dropping it, or reduce down to 5000

> IU.

>

> What could this do? It thought the recommendation was 5 RDAs, 15000

> IU is still below that I think.

Depends on if your child is low in vitamin A, and whether he has

measles virus issues. Too much vitamin A can cause liver damage, but

high dose vitamin A is required for eliminating measles virus.

The dose you are giving can be fine for certain children. But it

depends on your child's issues.

> > > Molybdenum 250 mg in the evening

> >

> > This is probably high.

>

> How much would you give?

100mcg [hopefully you meant to type mcg]

> Try giving NF and GSE 2-3x per day, see if that helps.

>

> I have been giving it twice on round. I'm just not even sure anymore

> that he *has yeast.

Try dropping it and see what happens.

> > This is commonly caused by biotin deficiency.

>

> Could chelation cause biotin deficiency?

If you use ALA, yes. Also, if he does not have good intestinal

bacteria, then yes.

Dana