Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I feel for you, I had/have the same issues with my son, and many felt I could just drip it in his mouth or hold him down. He'd gag and throw up immediatly. Not the type of relationship I was looking for. I ended up using all transdermal (dmps and ala). I had to pay out the nose for it because no insurance would cover the prescriptions or the naturopath I saw, but it has been more than worth it. I followed a Cutler protocal with the chelation, and it was easy to put it on him in the middle of the night. Well easy for him, he slept through it, I got to get up every 3-4 hours Maybe others will have some suggestions in getting it down him, if he will drink it mixed in something you might be able to wake him and have him take a drink, not sure if he'll be up for that though. good luck > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > well, does it? > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > difficulty? > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > Thanks, > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Mark, sorry you are having trouble. We found it easier here to put the dmsa/ala in something soft, we use yogurt. It helps to hide the sulfur taste if it is something they like, try pudding or applesauce. I feel for you. [ ] Uncooperative patient Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension well, does it? I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this difficulty? How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > well, does it? How big a dose of DMSA are you giving? Here's what I'd try, though it may sound kind of radical if he doesn't swallow caps. I'd put the dose in the tiniest empty capsule you can, and at night don't wake him but push the cap into his cheek pocket. Then touch a sport-bottle to his lips and see if he'll suck some water and swallow. If he doesn't take the water, the cap will dissolve and he'll still get the chelator (and make quite a face in his sleep!) I tried doing nighttime doses in liquid and found it impossible, but many people here are masters at it. I do think though that kids are swallowing food bits as big as the smaller capsules, so they really can do it -- and if they're asleep they can't get freaked out by it Nell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 I just talk to my son and tell him I'm going to give him his chelators. He is usually semi-awake, but enough to open his mouth and swallow the stuff down, then go right back to sleep. Barb [ ] Uncooperative patient Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension well, does it? I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this difficulty? How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. Thanks, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Mark, I've used both liquid and now yogurt to dose at night. The key is to make it a habit and that's hard to do if you start with the truly gross stuff (water and DMSA for example). For the next few nights practice dosing your son a couple times before you go to bed when he is already asleep, but don't use chelators. Just use what you feel might be easiest (either liquid in a syringe or something like yogurt or pudding from a spoon--I have recipe for pudding that doesn't use sugar if you're interested). If you child still has the sucking response, unlikely at 4 I realize, liquid is easier IMO. What I found best with the liquid was first to suck up a bit of the nonDMSA liquid and then the DMSA liquid after. That way the last little shot of liquid didn't taste like DMSA. Kirkman's also makes a flavoured DMSA that might help you. Once this habit is formed then you'll add chelators and start a round. It can be tough for some at the beginning but by practicing without the chelators it is much, much less stressful, which means much, much more likely to succeed. Good luck, Anita > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > well, does it? > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > difficulty? > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > Thanks, > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2006 Report Share Posted June 24, 2006 Hi and thanks to all who provided ideas. In our situation what I think will work best for us, is to just wake him up a little and have him drink it mixed with gatorade or something slightly sweet. The other ideas were good but for night time I just don't think they will work with this boy. He refuses to open his lips while sleeping. And he is not really a light sleeper, so waking him up is not ideal, but I think it's our only alternative. I will introduce the gatorade (or punch) as " big boy medicine " in the daytime with no addititives, and get him used to it. We've never given medicine it at night before and it's a bit scarey because he sleeps in the same room with his fraternal twin, and if he wakes up and freaks out I'm not sure they will get back to sleep. But no choice but to give it a hearty try. Thanks again for giving me hope! One thing that surprised me was the couple of suggestions about mixing it with pudding or yogurt. Those would have casein, which our boy hasn't had in around a year (to our knowledge). You can get away with that I guess. Also for our kid we had test come back with high IgG antigliadin (he's acquired a gluten allergy). This is with the backdrop of being " slightly " gluten-free for a year (making occasional exceptions, and allowing him to eat oats which have lower gluten than wheat). Not related but just a note. Mark > > Mark, sorry you are having trouble. We found it easier here to put the dmsa/ala in something soft, we use yogurt. It helps to hide the sulfur taste if it is something they like, try pudding or applesauce. I feel for you. > > > > > [ ] Uncooperative patient > > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > well, does it? > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > difficulty? > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 I am right there with you mark. We mix ALA with water and DMPS and sometimes put them in a single syringe (this is seeming like a bad idea, two seems to be easier even though it's more " applications " ). Some nights it goes easy, others (like last night) were a total struggle. And sometimes some dribbles out, which totally screws up the dosing. I am hesitant to use anything sweet to encourage compliance because of the fear of tooth decay. And now even during the day he is refusing to swallow (just sitting there like a squirrel with acorns in his mouth for 20 minutes). I try explaining that swallowing makes the taste go away faster but no dice. Anyone have any suggestions for that? I tried lying him on his back and pinching the nose but that doesn't really work. My wife tried tickling him which did work one time. Are you doing this solo or do you have a helper? For the 11pm dose my wife will hold the flashlight (a diffuse camping style one) and I'll try to be gentle but if I have to I'll put the syringe in and then use my other arm to clamp his head in one position while I push the syringe down. Talking to him in a low voice explaining that it's " time for water " seems to soften him up a bit too. Of course for the 3am dose I am on my own so I just find a good place to put the light based on where he has wiggled in his bed and then go at it again. Just keep trying and experimenting. The results will be worth it. --Todd > 4a. Uncooperative patient > Posted by: " redrackem " redrackem@... redrackem > Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:07 am (PDT) > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > well, does it? > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > difficulty? > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > Thanks, > Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Hi Todd; It's alone most of the time. If I have to I can get the wife to help out, though. I am hoping tooth decay will be minimized if we can get through with the chelation in less than a year. Wishful thinking maybe but I guess I have to pick the lesser of two evils. Mark > > I am right there with you mark. We mix ALA with water and DMPS and > sometimes put them in a single syringe (this is seeming like a bad idea, two > seems to be easier even though it's more " applications " ). Some nights it > goes easy, others (like last night) were a total struggle. And sometimes > some dribbles out, which totally screws up the dosing. I am hesitant to use > anything sweet to encourage compliance because of the fear of tooth decay. > And now even during the day he is refusing to swallow (just sitting there > like a squirrel with acorns in his mouth for 20 minutes). I try explaining > that swallowing makes the taste go away faster but no dice. Anyone have any > suggestions for that? I tried lying him on his back and pinching the nose > but that doesn't really work. My wife tried tickling him which did work one > time. > > Are you doing this solo or do you have a helper? For the 11pm dose my wife > will hold the flashlight (a diffuse camping style one) and I'll try to be > gentle but if I have to I'll put the syringe in and then use my other arm to > clamp his head in one position while I push the syringe down. Talking to > him in a low voice explaining that it's " time for water " seems to soften him > up a bit too. Of course for the 3am dose I am on my own so I just find a > good place to put the light based on where he has wiggled in his bed and > then go at it again. > > Just keep trying and experimenting. The results will be worth it. > > --Todd > > > > 4a. Uncooperative patient > > Posted by: " redrackem " redrackem@... redrackem > > Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:07 am (PDT) > > > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > > well, does it? > > > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > > difficulty? > > > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2006 Report Share Posted June 25, 2006 Or use Xylitol to sweeten AND prevent cavities. Also, Vanadium, a trace mineral has shown the ability to prevent cavities, so make sure they are getting it. Cavities, IMO, are largely genetic, but can be helped with supplementation of calcium/mag/vanadium. I put my daughter to bed with a bottle until she was two (noone saw anything wrong with it) every nap and every night. They now say that is one of the best things you can do to promote cavities is to let milk sugar sit on their teeth. But she never had a cavity until she was 19, no braces either. We did, however, live in the country where she got well water which is usually full of those nice minerals. [ ] Re: Uncooperative patient Hi Todd; It's alone most of the time. If I have to I can get the wife to help out, though. I am hoping tooth decay will be minimized if we can get through with the chelation in less than a year. Wishful thinking maybe but I guess I have to pick the lesser of two evils. Mark > > I am right there with you mark. We mix ALA with water and DMPS and > sometimes put them in a single syringe (this is seeming like a bad idea, two > seems to be easier even though it's more " applications " ). Some nights it > goes easy, others (like last night) were a total struggle. And sometimes > some dribbles out, which totally screws up the dosing. I am hesitant to use > anything sweet to encourage compliance because of the fear of tooth decay. > And now even during the day he is refusing to swallow (just sitting there > like a squirrel with acorns in his mouth for 20 minutes). I try explaining > that swallowing makes the taste go away faster but no dice. Anyone have any > suggestions for that? I tried lying him on his back and pinching the nose > but that doesn't really work. My wife tried tickling him which did work one > time. > > Are you doing this solo or do you have a helper? For the 11pm dose my wife > will hold the flashlight (a diffuse camping style one) and I'll try to be > gentle but if I have to I'll put the syringe in and then use my other arm to > clamp his head in one position while I push the syringe down. Talking to > him in a low voice explaining that it's " time for water " seems to soften him > up a bit too. Of course for the 3am dose I am on my own so I just find a > good place to put the light based on where he has wiggled in his bed and > then go at it again. > > Just keep trying and experimenting. The results will be worth it. > > --Todd > > > > 4a. Uncooperative patient > > Posted by: " redrackem " redrackem@... redrackem > > Date: Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:07 am (PDT) > > > > Son 4 Autism. I got the dmsa caps. I calculated the dose and > > determined how many caps I would give in a weekend period. Then I > > mixed with water in a dropper, calculating how many mL I would dose > > each 4 hour period. The stuff sure doesn't mix and stay in suspension > > well, does it? > > > > I snuck into his room and tried to open his mouth. He clasped his > > jaws shut and rolled over. I flipped him back and waited and tried > > again to open his mouth. He started whining and waking up and crying. > > The smell of sulpher not helping either. Plus this kid has a high > > gag reflex anyways. I can't believe I'm the only one with this > > difficulty? > > > > How do you guys do it? Do I have to wait until my kid is more mature, > > say age 7 or 8? In the day time I can probably add flavoring and talk > > him into it. But at night it just doesn't go. I have no ideas. > > Someone told me before to drop it into his mouth while he's asleep. > > Too bad it doesn't work that easy. I can't even get the dropper in > > his mouth. Please somebody shoot me. > > > > Thanks, > > Mark > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.