Re: no eye contact when speaking

[Guest guest]

If it was just the eyes darting away I wouldn't worry, but you have

pretty well described my son at that age. Only difference is he was a

biter not a hitter. Contact your local elementary school or ESC-4 and

ask for the person who handles child find. As you know, if your son is

on the spectrum, the sooner you find out the better. Early intervention

is critical. Also, if you need a friendly shoulder, feel free to write

off list.

Tonya

Near Lubbock

( ) no eye contact when speaking

I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

also has these issues:

-speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

understand than his peers)

-he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

not stop)

-he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

much more than a typical kid

-he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

hurt us

-the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

-he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

-typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

Thnk you,

Liz

Houston

[Guest guest]

I am close to a TEACCH center and work closely with them as I have

two kids with asperger as well as run a local support group for

homeschooling spec. needs kids. I have been reminded multiple times

that making them look at you is really defeating your purpose and

also just frustrating both child and parent. It takes so much

effort to FOCUS at looking at you that he or she won't

actually " hear " (take in and digest) what you're saying. I found

the less I tried to make them look at me, the better off we were in

communication. I did, however, with my eldest (who is also mild

mr), add sign language to our lesson plans and she has to look

toward me at least to see the signs...and she enjoys it. Takes a

lot of pressure off her for communication purposes, even tho she is

verbal. She also knows that if mommy is signing, mommy is being

VERY serious. lol And she pays closer attention to what I am saying.

Just some thoughts.

Hang in there!

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning

to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it!

He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing

the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force

him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this.

He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about

it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I

tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to

use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Tonya.

I am taking him to our public school for a speech STAT meeting in a few weeks.

We were going to just get him set up for the speech services he needs, but I am

aware now it goes beyond speech problems. I just didn't see the exact symptoms

as with my older son.....hand flapping, lining things up, very unaware of

danger. So since they aren't exactly the same, I just guessed it couldn't be a

spectrum issue.

I am going to ask at the STAT for an autism evaluation. Also, I will take him

to the center my older AS son is beginning social therapy for spectrum kids. I

bet the professionals there can interact with him for just a few moments & give

me an idea if its a spectrum issue or not.

Thanks for your input. I'll let you all know once I get some answers.

Liz

Houston

Tonya Hettler UA <txua@...> wrote:

If it was just the eyes darting away I wouldn't worry, but you have

pretty well described my son at that age. Only difference is he was a

biter not a hitter. Contact your local elementary school or ESC-4 and

ask for the person who handles child find. As you know, if your son is

on the spectrum, the sooner you find out the better. Early intervention

is critical. Also, if you need a friendly shoulder, feel free to write

off list.

Tonya

Near Lubbock

( ) no eye contact when speaking

I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

also has these issues:

-speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

understand than his peers)

-he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

not stop)

-he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

much more than a typical kid

-he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

hurt us

-the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

-he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

-typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

Thnk you,

Liz

Houston

[Guest guest]

Your list sounds just like my son when he was under 2. The eye

contact was ok, but he was just 'out of it' a lot of the time, and

agression was a big issue.

I would definitely have him evaluated right away. Meanwhile look up

information on Autism and realize that Autism takes many different

forms, and can look so differently from child to child.

There are usually early childhood development places that will help

you getting evaluations. Here in Maine we call it CDS (Child. dev.

serv.)

You can also call your local school system and ask them who you can

go to.

Don't wait! Early intervention can help;-)

Good catch, too Mom!! Trust your instincts!

*smiles*

B

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning

to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it!

He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing

the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this.

He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about

it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I

tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

[Guest guest]

I had problems with eye contact. Still do. From the inside, I can

tell you that forcing eye contact is akin to a switch that turns the

brain off. Forcing eye contact is, from my experience, a negative

idea which can translate to trauma, mild at first, but builds one

experience upon another, to be more and more serious. For me, when I

was forced to make eye contact in school and home, making eye contact

became so uncomfortable and threatening that I was repelled from

social situations altogether.

Getting stumped on an issue that upset me was as simple as feeling

pressured. If my teacher was standing next to me, trying to get me to

show my parents, or a visiting teacher, what I knew or could do, or

had learned, had the same effect as forcing eye contact. Total brain

lock. I couldn't think. I could stutter and stammer my way through

something basic, but I wasn't able to provide the required answer.

I had the unusual ability to keep my meltdowns inside. This was very

difficult. I was on the edge of suicide by the time I was 12. No one

knew what was going on. I think this was a blessing when I was young.

When I told people what I was feeling, I was told that it was a " pipe

dream " and nothing more. Today, I am 49 years old. I was placed on

disability in 2000 for a number of reasons, but the one reason that

triggered the loss of my career was the gradual inability to handle

stress. At this time, my meltdowns come in the guise of blackouts. I

never am reminded of what happens during these blackouts, whether

someone tells me of what I said or did, or looking at my memories of

what I was doing leading up to the blackout.

Dave

--

___________________________________________________

Search for products and services at:

http://search.mail.com

[Guest guest]

I had difficulty with eye contact, especially when talking about

something I needed to concentrate on. In fact, if my mother made me

look at her, I could not focus on what she was saying. Sometimes I

could look at her mouth and she wouldn't say anything. Some people

actually focus better if they are not distracted visually. Perhaps

allowing your son to sketch or diagram while you are talking would

allow you to know that he is listening. You could explain that making

eye contact is how we show that we are listening. Hope that helps.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. I see exactly what you are describing in my

three year old. When I try and force eye contact, I can literally see his brain

turn off. He can only begin to utter the first syllable of a word while looking

at me, then he goes blank. I didn't realize how traumatic it can be for a child

to be forced to make eye contact. I will lay off that until I get him evaluated

for a spectrum disorder.

Thanks for your input here.

Liz Houston

davjohn@... wrote:

I had problems with eye contact. Still do. From the inside, I can

tell you that forcing eye contact is akin to a switch that turns the

brain off. Forcing eye contact is, from my experience, a negative

idea which can translate to trauma, mild at first, but builds one

experience upon another, to be more and more serious. For me, when I

was forced to make eye contact in school and home, making eye contact

became so uncomfortable and threatening that I was repelled from

social situations altogether.

Getting stumped on an issue that upset me was as simple as feeling

pressured. If my teacher was standing next to me, trying to get me to

show my parents, or a visiting teacher, what I knew or could do, or

had learned, had the same effect as forcing eye contact. Total brain

lock. I couldn't think. I could stutter and stammer my way through

something basic, but I wasn't able to provide the required answer.

I had the unusual ability to keep my meltdowns inside. This was very

difficult. I was on the edge of suicide by the time I was 12. No one

knew what was going on. I think this was a blessing when I was young.

When I told people what I was feeling, I was told that it was a " pipe

dream " and nothing more. Today, I am 49 years old. I was placed on

disability in 2000 for a number of reasons, but the one reason that

triggered the loss of my career was the gradual inability to handle

stress. At this time, my meltdowns come in the guise of blackouts. I

never am reminded of what happens during these blackouts, whether

someone tells me of what I said or did, or looking at my memories of

what I was doing leading up to the blackout.

Dave

--

___________________________________________________

Search for products and services at:

http://search.mail.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a few thoughts that may help. My son is 13 1/2 and was

diagnosed w/ ADHD at 6, and AS at 10.

RE: potty training, I tried everything! I honestly thought he would be

going to school in diapers. He just absolutely refused to use the potty.

When he was 4 I went back to work and needed to put him in day care. His

teacher told me to send him with a suitcase of clothes changes if needed,

but keep him in regular underwear. Sure enough, he had more than his share

of accidents (keep him off the carpets!), but he was relatively trained in a

few months. He still had accidents in grade school, and I even had to bribe

him a few times to use a strange bathroom when we were out. He has some

irrational fears, which I think is typical, and bathrooms were one of them.

AS kids also don't handle change well at all. They want things just the way

they are.

RE: Eye contact, he also didn't make eye contact. We thought it was because

he was always on the go. We enrolled him in Tae Kwon Do when he was 5

because we heard that Martial Arts was great for self control. One of the

first things the kids learn is the three rules of concentration: focus your

eyes, focus your mind, focus your body. These rules went a long way towards

helping my son focus on his tasks, as well as the eye contact. Another

thing to try is training similar to that used for animals. Reward for close

aproximation. In other words, reward your son for looking at your face

maybe for a short time. Gradually increase the time required for a reward

to include some words, and eventually a sentence. Gradually make the reward

only for a short eye contact. Then longer, etc. You get the idea. I do

know that for AS kids, sometimes eye contact is painful.

There are probably other issues that your son can't verbalize but affect his

behavior. It was several years before we learned that bright lights, noise,

and crowds disturbed my son and made him irritable. And if your child is a

perfectionist, he will not let go of things that stump him without a great

deal of help. I could go on and on.

Hope that helps,

Helen S.

-- ( ) no eye contact when speaking

I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

also has these issues:

-speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

understand than his peers)

-he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

not stop)

-he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

much more than a typical kid

-he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

hurt us

-the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

-he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

-typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

Thnk you,

Liz

Houston

[Guest guest]

Several years ago I attended a symposium by Ami Klin. One of the things he told

us was

that his research had revealed that, many adults with HFA/AS were functioning

better

socially if they didn't make eye contact. In his experience, those who were

functioning the

best tended to watch a speaker's mouth instead of their eyes. As I recall, he

hypothesized

that people with autism don't process or gain much information from watching

somebody

else's eyes. Unlike typical people, they're not picking up on a lot of

nonverbal cues--

possibly because their brain isn't even functioning in the regions that normally

light up

when someone is looking at someone else's eyes. His theory was that people with

autism

derive more information from the words the person is speaking than they do from

the very

subtle nonverbal cues that we send with our eyes, and that better social

functioning was

related to adaptively choosing to focus on an information source that actually

conveyed

useful information to a person with autism. He didn't go as far as proposing

that we stop

training our children to make eye contact, but ever since I attended that

lecture, I've

wondered whether making eye contact ought to be the major goal it is for many of

our

children. Perhaps one of the ways they're different is that eye contact *can't*

give them

the information they need to function socially--and that it's not simply a

matter of not

prefering to look people in the eye.

Sue C.

>

> I had difficulty with eye contact, especially when talking about

> something I needed to concentrate on. In fact, if my mother made me

> look at her, I could not focus on what she was saying. Sometimes I

> could look at her mouth and she wouldn't say anything. Some people

> actually focus better if they are not distracted visually. Perhaps

> allowing your son to sketch or diagram while you are talking would

> allow you to know that he is listening. You could explain that making

> eye contact is how we show that we are listening. Hope that helps.

>

[Guest guest]

Take away those pull ups. Honestly, it's a mess but it can often make the

difference. I reserved the pull ups for only when we were out shopping or

running errands. The rest of the time at home - undies. Some kids need the

full results to appreciate why they should use the toilet.

Roxanna

( ) no eye contact when speaking

I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

also has these issues:

-speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

understand than his peers)

-he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

not stop)

-he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

much more than a typical kid

-he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

hurt us

-the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

-he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

-typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

Thnk you,

Liz

Houston

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 12/26/2006

[Guest guest]

I have tried taking away the pull ups from my 3 year old nt son and it still

don't help.I am getting sick of buying and changing pull ups,because I know

he is old enough.even my as son was starting to potty train more at 3 years

old then my nt son...I just don't know what to do either....

christie

-- Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

Take away those pull ups. Honestly, it's a mess but it can often make the

difference. I reserved the pull ups for only when we were out shopping or

running errands. The rest of the time at home - undies. Some kids need the

full results to appreciate why they should use the toilet.

Roxanna

( ) no eye contact when speaking

I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

also has these issues:

-speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

understand than his peers)

-he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

not stop)

-he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

much more than a typical kid

-he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

hurt us

-the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

-he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

-typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

Thnk you,

Liz

Houston

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition.

Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date: 12/26/2006

[Guest guest]

My son was 4 1/2 when he was finally potty trained.

He would actually hide behind the couch and go in his pull-ups. We

couldn't fgiure out what the problem (he would pee but not poop) was

until we finally realized he was terrified of going in the toilet.

Once he went (a long weekend in and near the bathroom) on the toilet

and realized it ws no biggie he was good to go.

>

> I have tried taking away the pull ups from my 3 year old nt son and

it still

> don't help.I am getting sick of buying and changing pull ups,because

I know

> he is old enough.even my as son was starting to potty train more at

3 years

> old then my nt son...I just don't know what to do either....

> christie

>

> -- Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> Take away those pull ups. Honestly, it's a mess but it can often

make the

> difference. I reserved the pull ups for only when we were out

shopping or

> running errands. The rest of the time at home - undies. Some kids

need the

> full results to appreciate why they should use the toilet.

>

> Roxanna

> ( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:

12/26/2006

>

>

[Guest guest]

I took away the pull ups when he turned 3. I put him on the potty every 30

minutes. He got really mad that he was having to get on the potty. Every now &

then he'd go in the pot & we would reward him & get really excited. He mostly

went in his underwear about 10 times a day. No matter how often I put him on

the potty. Now he screams if I suggest he sit on the potty (6 months later).

He sees his 7 yr old brother use the potty & sees his preschool friends use the

potty, but he is not influenced by the " peer pressure " . I've offered him a new

toy for using the potty, I've tried candy, I've even gotten mad at him, I've

even done the wrong thing by pointing out he's doing what babies do in diapers.

I just saw in the weekend paper an article by Dr. Brazelton on potty training.

It was about three & a half year old twins who wouldn't potty train. The doctor

said that parents shouldn't make an issue about it at all. He even suggested

that the parents apologize to the child for asking them to use the potty when

they weren't ready for it! He says that kids will potty train only when they

are ready, even if they are older. Sooooo, I told my son I was sorry for asking

him to use the potty & he could used pull ups as long as he wanted to. I'm not

sure if I really agree with this. Especially when my son has #2 ten times a

day & kicks me till I bleed when I change him. Uggg- I want to cry! Oh and the

looks I get from other Mom's when they notice the pull-ups. I get those really

snotty looks!

Liz

elizabethgsimon <elizabeth.simon@...> wrote:

My son was 4 1/2 when he was finally potty trained.

He would actually hide behind the couch and go in his pull-ups. We

couldn't fgiure out what the problem (he would pee but not poop) was

until we finally realized he was terrified of going in the toilet.

Once he went (a long weekend in and near the bathroom) on the toilet

and realized it ws no biggie he was good to go.

>

> I have tried taking away the pull ups from my 3 year old nt son and

it still

> don't help.I am getting sick of buying and changing pull ups,because

I know

> he is old enough.even my as son was starting to potty train more at

3 years

> old then my nt son...I just don't know what to do either....

> christie

>

> -- Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> Take away those pull ups. Honestly, it's a mess but it can often

make the

> difference. I reserved the pull ups for only when we were out

shopping or

> running errands. The rest of the time at home - undies. Some kids

need the

> full results to appreciate why they should use the toilet.

>

> Roxanna

> ( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:

12/26/2006

>

>

[Guest guest]

I also followed this advice when my daughter was 4 and refused to

potty train. But things did not change. She seemed happy to wear

pullups and did not care if she was wet. Then I found out that she

had autism and I read about a different approach. It said that we

should not assume they understand or have any desire to be potty

trained. I had to look at the sensory issues, rigidity need, and

what motivated her to get her potty trained. She liked the feel of

the pull up and did not want to sit on the potty. She did not know

when she was wet or notice the need to urinate. She was scared of

the toilet and the flushing. She did not want me to tell her what

to do and had difficulty with transitions. She did not respond to

candy as a reward for long and needed better rewards to stay

motivated. First I bought new floor rugs and matching towels to

make the bathroom for comfortable. I told her we did not need to

flush the toilet. I used a 5 minute warning to inform her when we

were going to the toilet. I offered her favorite video (only

watched after sitting on the toilet) or she could play with a new

favorite toy for a little wheile after sitting on the toilet in her

pullup but no pants. Then I bought her a more desired toy/video for

sitting on the potty and urinating in her pullup. This helped her

identify when she needed to urinate. Eventually she would tell me

she needed to go and would go to the potty and urinate in the

pullup. Once this was established I tried different strategies

(urinate through a small hole in the pullup into the potty and

making pretend pee by pouring warm water on her front area to

desensitize her) The 2nd strategy recommends saying after 5 days

that the pretend pee ran out and she needed to pee to get the reward

again (in clear box that she got to hold). Neither of these

worked. I looked at what would motivate her. I had bought the

ultimate rewards for being potty trained for urine and another for

BM. I would let her hold these for one minute and then put it on the

floor and tell her she could have it for awhile if she urinate/ had

a bm in the toilet with no pullup. But what worked was finally

internal motivation (she wanted to go to kindergarten and I told her

she needed to be potty trained and in underwear to go to

kindergarten). She urinated in the school potty on the last day of

preschool. It took 2 more months to be potty trained for BM. The

rewards earned during that time are still her favorite toys 6 months

later.

So my advice is to take an active part in identifying why he is not

potty trained and what strategies could work. Have the school help

and get it written in the IEP.

Good luck,

Jen

> >

> > I have tried taking away the pull ups from my 3 year old nt son

and

> it still

> > don't help.I am getting sick of buying and changing pull

ups,because

> I know

> > he is old enough.even my as son was starting to potty train more

at

> 3 years

> > old then my nt son...I just don't know what to do either....

> > christie

> >

> > -- Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

> >

> > Take away those pull ups. Honestly, it's a mess but it can often

> make the

> > difference. I reserved the pull ups for only when we were out

> shopping or

> > running errands. The rest of the time at home - undies. Some kids

> need the

> > full results to appreciate why they should use the toilet.

> >

> > Roxanna

> > ( ) no eye contact when speaking

> >

> > I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm

beginning to

> > really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> > make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> > to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> > saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it!

He

> > tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing

the

> > 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force

him

> > to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> > So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an

autistic

> > spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this.

He

> > also has these issues:

> > -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> > understand than his peers)

> > -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> > places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown

&

> > not stop)

> > -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing

about it

> > much more than a typical kid

> > -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes

he's

> > hurt us

> > -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> > -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him

a

> > new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I

tried

> > it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to

use

> > the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> > -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> > So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> > Thnk you,

> > Liz

> > Houston

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:

> 12/26/2006

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Jen,

This sounds fantastic. It's a great way to break down a complicated

process into more simple steps. I like the way you adapted them for

your daughter. You really put some thought into it.

Liz in Boston

On Jan 4, 2007, at 4:06 PM, jennifer_thorson wrote:

> I also followed this advice when my daughter was 4 and refused to

> potty train. But things did not change. She seemed happy to wear

> pullups and did not care if she was wet. Then I found out that she

> had autism and I read about a different approach. It said that we

> should not assume they understand or have any desire to be potty

> trained. I had to look at the sensory issues, rigidity need, and

> what motivated her to get her potty trained. She liked the feel of

> the pull up and did not want to sit on the potty. She did not know

> when she was wet or notice the need to urinate. She was scared of

> the toilet and the flushing. She did not want me to tell her what

> to do and had difficulty with transitions. She did not respond to

> candy as a reward for long and needed better rewards to stay

> motivated. First I bought new floor rugs and matching towels to

> make the bathroom for comfortable. <snip>

> Good luck,

>

> Jen

[Guest guest]

Great ideas and efforts, Jen!

Roxanna

Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

I also followed this advice when my daughter was 4 and refused to

potty train. But things did not change. She seemed happy to wear

pullups and did not care if she was wet. Then I found out that she

had autism and I read about a different approach. It said that we

should not assume they understand or have any desire to be potty

trained. I had to look at the sensory issues, rigidity need, and

what motivated her to get her potty trained. She liked the feel of

the pull up and did not want to sit on the potty. She did not know

when she was wet or notice the need to urinate. She was scared of

the toilet and the flushing. She did not want me to tell her what

to do and had difficulty with transitions. She did not respond to

candy as a reward for long and needed better rewards to stay

motivated. First I bought new floor rugs and matching towels to

make the bathroom for comfortable. I told her we did not need to

flush the toilet. I used a 5 minute warning to inform her when we

were going to the toilet. I offered her favorite video (only

watched after sitting on the toilet) or she could play with a new

favorite toy for a little wheile after sitting on the toilet in her

pullup but no pants. Then I bought her a more desired toy/video for

sitting on the potty and urinating in her pullup. This helped her

identify when she needed to urinate. Eventually she would tell me

she needed to go and would go to the potty and urinate in the

pullup. Once this was established I tried different strategies

(urinate through a small hole in the pullup into the potty and

making pretend pee by pouring warm water on her front area to

desensitize her) The 2nd strategy recommends saying after 5 days

that the pretend pee ran out and she needed to pee to get the reward

again (in clear box that she got to hold). Neither of these

worked. I looked at what would motivate her. I had bought the

ultimate rewards for being potty trained for urine and another for

BM. I would let her hold these for one minute and then put it on the

floor and tell her she could have it for awhile if she urinate/ had

a bm in the toilet with no pullup. But what worked was finally

internal motivation (she wanted to go to kindergarten and I told her

she needed to be potty trained and in underwear to go to

kindergarten). She urinated in the school potty on the last day of

preschool. It took 2 more months to be potty trained for BM. The

rewards earned during that time are still her favorite toys 6 months

later.

So my advice is to take an active part in identifying why he is not

potty trained and what strategies could work. Have the school help

and get it written in the IEP.

Good luck,

Jen

.

[Guest guest]

Apologizing for asking him to go in the potty???? Holy cow! I have never heard

of such a thing. lol. My boys did not potty train until they were in their 4's

but I wouldn't have apologized for it. I like the other post by Jen which says

to figure out what the problem is and resolve those and keep trying. And this

is certainly not " PC " to say, but if my kids were kicking me during changing

time, I would smack their leg and tell them to knock it off. I can't imagine

sitting there trying to wrestle a 3 yo. and getting bruised in the process over

a messy diaper. Ugh! Potty training was only a big problem for my mil, who

couldn't stand it that he wasn't trained by age 1. lol. We took him to the

potty often enough but we were casual about it. I used to tell him I knew he

would go pee pee in the potty when he got big enough. And my dh would take him

a lot as well and " demonstrate " the process. We even had a song we sang, " Pee

pee in the potty " to the tune of a salsa type style. lol. But one day, he just

started using the potty and never had an accident or anything after that. I

wrote a social story book for my younger ds when it came time to potty train -

it was all about becoming a big boy. Then also we still sang that potty song

and cheered like we were at the super bowl for every time he did it.

I think if they had gone to age 5 not trained, I probably would have gotten

upset with them or about it. But who knows, we all have our limits and beliefs

on this subject. I think Brazelton was really just trying to say that this is

one of those things that our kids have control over - kind of like eating. But

I don't agree that you should just let them decide everything. I think a little

pushing and prompting is a good idea.

Roxanna

( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:

12/26/2006

>

>

[Guest guest]

Jen, you really have your act together!!! Awesome ideas! Would you consider

moving in with me for a few months? Haven't you always wanted to live in lovely

Houston? (I'm really serious!)

Thanks for your tips.

Liz

Houston

Roxanna <madideas@...> wrote:

Great ideas and efforts, Jen!

Roxanna

Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

I also followed this advice when my daughter was 4 and refused to

potty train. But things did not change. She seemed happy to wear

pullups and did not care if she was wet. Then I found out that she

had autism and I read about a different approach. It said that we

should not assume they understand or have any desire to be potty

trained. I had to look at the sensory issues, rigidity need, and

what motivated her to get her potty trained. She liked the feel of

the pull up and did not want to sit on the potty. She did not know

when she was wet or notice the need to urinate. She was scared of

the toilet and the flushing. She did not want me to tell her what

to do and had difficulty with transitions. She did not respond to

candy as a reward for long and needed better rewards to stay

motivated. First I bought new floor rugs and matching towels to

make the bathroom for comfortable. I told her we did not need to

flush the toilet. I used a 5 minute warning to inform her when we

were going to the toilet. I offered her favorite video (only

watched after sitting on the toilet) or she could play with a new

favorite toy for a little wheile after sitting on the toilet in her

pullup but no pants. Then I bought her a more desired toy/video for

sitting on the potty and urinating in her pullup. This helped her

identify when she needed to urinate. Eventually she would tell me

she needed to go and would go to the potty and urinate in the

pullup. Once this was established I tried different strategies

(urinate through a small hole in the pullup into the potty and

making pretend pee by pouring warm water on her front area to

desensitize her) The 2nd strategy recommends saying after 5 days

that the pretend pee ran out and she needed to pee to get the reward

again (in clear box that she got to hold). Neither of these

worked. I looked at what would motivate her. I had bought the

ultimate rewards for being potty trained for urine and another for

BM. I would let her hold these for one minute and then put it on the

floor and tell her she could have it for awhile if she urinate/ had

a bm in the toilet with no pullup. But what worked was finally

internal motivation (she wanted to go to kindergarten and I told her

she needed to be potty trained and in underwear to go to

kindergarten). She urinated in the school potty on the last day of

preschool. It took 2 more months to be potty trained for BM. The

rewards earned during that time are still her favorite toys 6 months

later.

So my advice is to take an active part in identifying why he is not

potty trained and what strategies could work. Have the school help

and get it written in the IEP.

Good luck,

Jen

..

[Guest guest]

Oh he's gotten quite a few pops on his leg when he kicks me! :-) But that's

another story! Spanking him does not work. It seems to make him more

aggressive & he hits me, his Dad & brother too! It's like he's seen me pop him

for kicking me & he thinks that he should pop others when he's frustrated (which

is alot!). A vicious cycle? Maybe.

I think Brazelton was a little overboard on the apologizing too. I was

desperate enough to try it though! Can you imagine telling your three year old

" Mommy is so sorry for asking you to try the potty, you can wear underwear & pee

in the potty when you are ready. " ???? Well.......I did that exact thing.

Uggggg!

Liz

Houston

Roxanna <madideas@...> wrote:

Apologizing for asking him to go in the potty???? Holy cow! I have

never heard of such a thing. lol. My boys did not potty train until they were in

their 4's but I wouldn't have apologized for it. I like the other post by Jen

which says to figure out what the problem is and resolve those and keep trying.

And this is certainly not " PC " to say, but if my kids were kicking me during

changing time, I would smack their leg and tell them to knock it off. I can't

imagine sitting there trying to wrestle a 3 yo. and getting bruised in the

process over a messy diaper. Ugh! Potty training was only a big problem for my

mil, who couldn't stand it that he wasn't trained by age 1. lol. We took him to

the potty often enough but we were casual about it. I used to tell him I knew he

would go pee pee in the potty when he got big enough. And my dh would take him a

lot as well and " demonstrate " the process. We even had a song we sang, " Pee pee

in the potty " to the tune of a salsa type

style. lol. But one day, he just started using the potty and never had an

accident or anything after that. I wrote a social story book for my younger ds

when it came time to potty train - it was all about becoming a big boy. Then

also we still sang that potty song and cheered like we were at the super bowl

for every time he did it.

I think if they had gone to age 5 not trained, I probably would have gotten

upset with them or about it. But who knows, we all have our limits and beliefs

on this subject. I think Brazelton was really just trying to say that this is

one of those things that our kids have control over - kind of like eating. But I

don't agree that you should just let them decide everything. I think a little

pushing and prompting is a good idea.

Roxanna

( ) no eye contact when speaking

>

> I have a 7 year old son who is diagnosed with AS but I'm beginning to

> really worry about his little brother. He is three years & won't

> make eye contact when he speaks. I have even offered him candy

> to " stay looking into Mommy's eyes when you say (whatever he's

> saying) and you can have this candy! He absolutely can't do it! He

> tries by starting off looking into my eyes, but before finishing the

> 1st word of his sentence, his eyes dart away. If I try & force him

> to look into my eyes, then he stops speaking.

> So I am wondering if this can mean anything other than an autistic

> spectrum disorder. I'd be very interested in any input on this. He

> also has these issues:

> -speech problems (he's about to begin ST, he is much harder to

> understand than his peers)

> -he has raging tantrums all day & evening (we can't venture many

> places in public because we know he'll have a screaming meltdown &

> not stop)

> -he gets stumped on an issue that upsets him & keeps fussing about it

> much more than a typical kid

> -he hits me & his dad in our faces & smiles when he realizes he's

> hurt us

> -the only thing that calms him is watching cartoons

> -he was unable to potty train. I used sticker charts & gave him a

> new from a toy bag each time he had any result on the potty. I tried

> it all! But he's now three & a half and refuses to even try to use

> the toilet. He just pees & poo's in is pull-ups all day.

> -typical discipline techinques have failed with him.

> So any thoughts or ideas are apprciated!

> Thnk you,

> Liz

> Houston

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/604 - Release Date:

12/26/2006

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think Brazelton is overrated. He was in the same practice with my

kids' pediatrician when we lived in Boston, before we moved out to

San Diego. We saw him a few times, and didn't like him much. He was

very un-tuned into new parents'' worries. He was good at making

newborns do tricks, though.

Liz

On Jan 5, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Liz S wrote:

> Oh he's gotten quite a few pops on his leg when he kicks me! :-)

> But that's another story! Spanking him does not work. It seems to

> make him more aggressive & he hits me, his Dad & brother too! It's

> like he's seen me pop him for kicking me & he thinks that he should

> pop others when he's frustrated (which is alot!). A vicious cycle?

> Maybe.

> I think Brazelton was a little overboard on the apologizing too. I

> was desperate enough to try it though! Can you imagine telling your

> three year old " Mommy is so sorry for asking you to try the potty,

> you can wear underwear & pee in the potty when you are ready. " ????

> Well.......I did that exact thing. Uggggg!

> Liz

> Houston

[Guest guest]

Sue,

Wow - very good point. It's like how they used to make children write with

their right hand if they were born left handed. For what reason? If your child

processes the words just fine, why make him learn to give eye contact? Watching

a person's mouth explains a lot, because that is what I do. I get very

uncomfortable looking people in the eyes. Watching their mouths move has sort

of a rhythm to it, and the words seem to flow with the way their mouths move -

like a song. Then, and only then, does what they say make sense.

suetois <suetois@...> wrote:

Several years ago I attended a symposium by Ami Klin. One of the

things he told us was

that his research had revealed that, many adults with HFA/AS were functioning

better

socially if they didn't make eye contact. In his experience, those who were

functioning the

best tended to watch a speaker's mouth instead of their eyes. As I recall, he

hypothesized

that people with autism don't process or gain much information from watching

somebody

else's eyes. Unlike typical people, they're not picking up on a lot of nonverbal

cues--

possibly because their brain isn't even functioning in the regions that normally

light up

when someone is looking at someone else's eyes. His theory was that people with

autism

derive more information from the words the person is speaking than they do from

the very

subtle nonverbal cues that we send with our eyes, and that better social

functioning was

related to adaptively choosing to focus on an information source that actually

conveyed

useful information to a person with autism. He didn't go as far as proposing

that we stop

training our children to make eye contact, but ever since I attended that

lecture, I've

wondered whether making eye contact ought to be the major goal it is for many of

our

children. Perhaps one of the ways they're different is that eye contact *can't*

give them

the information they need to function socially--and that it's not simply a

matter of not

prefering to look people in the eye.

Sue C.

>

> I had difficulty with eye contact, especially when talking about

> something I needed to concentrate on. In fact, if my mother made me

> look at her, I could not focus on what she was saying. Sometimes I

> could look at her mouth and she wouldn't say anything. Some people

> actually focus better if they are not distracted visually. Perhaps

> allowing your son to sketch or diagram while you are talking would

> allow you to know that he is listening. You could explain that making

> eye contact is how we show that we are listening. Hope that helps.

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

It's terrible. It is like forcing a person to look at something dreadful. Eye

contact is scary and uncomfortable, and a person with a spectrum disorder can't

concentrate on what they want to say when someone is forcing them to make eye

contact, because then that is all they can think about.

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote: Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. I

see exactly what you are describing in my three year old. When I try and force

eye contact, I can literally see his brain turn off. He can only begin to utter

the first syllable of a word while looking at me, then he goes blank. I didn't

realize how traumatic it can be for a child to be forced to make eye contact. I

will lay off that until I get him evaluated for a spectrum disorder.

Thanks for your input here.

Liz Houston

davjohn@... wrote:

I had problems with eye contact. Still do. From the inside, I can

tell you that forcing eye contact is akin to a switch that turns the

brain off. Forcing eye contact is, from my experience, a negative

idea which can translate to trauma, mild at first, but builds one

experience upon another, to be more and more serious. For me, when I

was forced to make eye contact in school and home, making eye contact

became so uncomfortable and threatening that I was repelled from

social situations altogether.

Getting stumped on an issue that upset me was as simple as feeling

pressured. If my teacher was standing next to me, trying to get me to

show my parents, or a visiting teacher, what I knew or could do, or

had learned, had the same effect as forcing eye contact. Total brain

lock. I couldn't think. I could stutter and stammer my way through

something basic, but I wasn't able to provide the required answer.

I had the unusual ability to keep my meltdowns inside. This was very

difficult. I was on the edge of suicide by the time I was 12. No one

knew what was going on. I think this was a blessing when I was young.

When I told people what I was feeling, I was told that it was a " pipe

dream " and nothing more. Today, I am 49 years old. I was placed on

disability in 2000 for a number of reasons, but the one reason that

triggered the loss of my career was the gradual inability to handle

stress. At this time, my meltdowns come in the guise of blackouts. I

never am reminded of what happens during these blackouts, whether

someone tells me of what I said or did, or looking at my memories of

what I was doing leading up to the blackout.

Dave

--

___________________________________________________

Search for products and services at:

http://search.mail.com

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

ROFL, how funny. I've been picturing all these mom's apologizing to their kids

for trying to teach them a life skill at an appropriate age and it's been

cracking me up. AUGH! Who comes up with this stuff? Brazelton seems like a

nice enough guy but he smiles all the time. Even when it's not funny. That

bothers me. It reminds me of a " Ahhh, you stupid people have no clue and I am

laughing at you before I inform you why you are doing it all wrong.... " lol.

I saw an " expert " in a women's magazine the other day (a pediatrician) giving

advice to a mom who wrote in about co-ed slumber parties for her high school

daughter. And the doctor seriously laid down ground rules for attending and I

was just thinking, " Are they nuts? " I wonder how many people read that and

thought what I did vs. how many thought, " Well, maybe it's okay to do that

then... " I just can picture my dh as my dd asks to go to a co-ed slumber party.

I wonder where some of these docs get their ideas about raising kids. They make

me feel like I'm the one who is crazy for not getting their points.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

I think Brazelton is overrated. He was in the same practice with my

kids' pediatrician when we lived in Boston, before we moved out to

San Diego. We saw him a few times, and didn't like him much. He was

very un-tuned into new parents'' worries. He was good at making

newborns do tricks, though.

Liz

On Jan 5, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Liz S wrote:

> Oh he's gotten quite a few pops on his leg when he kicks me! :-)

> But that's another story! Spanking him does not work. It seems to

> make him more aggressive & he hits me, his Dad & brother too! It's

> like he's seen me pop him for kicking me & he thinks that he should

> pop others when he's frustrated (which is alot!). A vicious cycle?

> Maybe.

> I think Brazelton was a little overboard on the apologizing too. I

> was desperate enough to try it though! Can you imagine telling your

> three year old " Mommy is so sorry for asking you to try the potty,

> you can wear underwear & pee in the potty when you are ready. " ????

> Well.......I did that exact thing. Uggggg!

> Liz

> Houston

[Guest guest]

Some people might feel that way or believe that way, but I would not say it

applies to all people with an ASD. I don't mind teaching my boys to look at me

when I am talking. They have also been taught why they are looking, what they

are looking for. We taught a lot of that to my younger ds especially where he

would look specifically at faces in order to answer the question - what is he

thinking? Why do you think that? What clues are there? He has zero problems

looking at anyone now. To be sure, it is not a natural thing for him to do. So

he often starts out looking elsewhere when talking. This has the effect of him

losing tract of his thoughts as he eyes grab on to things in the room and he

thinks about those things as well. He does much better when he is looking at

the person he is talking with. This is a skill he will improve on with time and

experience. So to me, it was worth the effort and he will become more

independent because of this. He is also going to be more employable this way as

well.

At a Winner conference I attended (she has great ideas to share) she

teaches her " students " to look because she tells them, " You are thinking about

what you are looking at. " She will even demonstrate this with her social groups

by walking in and sitting facing away from them, then starting the group that

way. It's very good stuff really.

My older ds is not good at eye contact with people he does not know but he never

did get the more intensive instruction as our younger ds. I think that will

make life a lot harder for him.

Roxanna

Re: ( ) no eye contact when speaking

It's terrible. It is like forcing a person to look at something dreadful. Eye

contact is scary and uncomfortable, and a person with a spectrum disorder can't

concentrate on what they want to say when someone is forcing them to make eye

contact, because then that is all they can think about.

Liz S <lizs.1234@...> wrote: Hi Dave, thanks for your reply. I see

exactly what you are describing in my three year old. When I try and force eye

contact, I can literally see his brain turn off. He can only begin to utter the

first syllable of a word while looking at me, then he goes blank. I didn't

realize how traumatic it can be for a child to be forced to make eye contact. I

will lay off that until I get him evaluated for a spectrum disorder.

Thanks for your input here.

Liz Houston

davjohn@... wrote:

I had problems with eye contact. Still do. From the inside, I can

tell you that forcing eye contact is akin to a switch that turns the

brain off. Forcing eye contact is, from my experience, a negative

idea which can translate to trauma, mild at first, but builds one

experience upon another, to be more and more serious. For me, when I

was forced to make eye contact in school and home, making eye contact

became so uncomfortable and threatening that I was repelled from

social situations altogether.

Getting stumped on an issue that upset me was as simple as feeling

pressured. If my teacher was standing next to me, trying to get me to

show my parents, or a visiting teacher, what I knew or could do, or

had learned, had the same effect as forcing eye contact. Total brain

lock. I couldn't think. I could stutter and stammer my way through

something basic, but I wasn't able to provide the required answer.

I had the unusual ability to keep my meltdowns inside. This was very

difficult. I was on the edge of suicide by the time I was 12. No one

knew what was going on. I think this was a blessing when I was young.

When I told people what I was feeling, I was told that it was a " pipe

dream " and nothing more. Today, I am 49 years old. I was placed on

disability in 2000 for a number of reasons, but the one reason that

triggered the loss of my career was the gradual inability to handle

stress. At this time, my meltdowns come in the guise of blackouts. I

never am reminded of what happens during these blackouts, whether

someone tells me of what I said or did, or looking at my memories of

what I was doing leading up to the blackout.

Dave

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