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In a message dated 5/22/2006 1:18:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

donnabzy@... writes:

How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum who is

also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral therapy

or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or their

IEP?

Thanks,

Donna

Donna, there is a fine line between what is truly AS and what spills over

into ODD. My son was also considered for that diagnosis. I would not

encourage you to share a diagnosis of ODD with the school. It is a behavioral

diagnosis and would not warrant understanding by school officials that the

diagnosis of AS would. ODD is a behavioral diagnosis, AS is a neurological

diagnosis. Pam :)

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My son was originally diagnosed with ADHD and ODD.

Some people look at ODD as a problem with how the child is parented.

(SOME)

I hate that title!

Personally, if I were a kid today , dealing with everyone around me

(save the mom and dad) trying to make me do everything that is so

hard and blaming me for my shortcomings, I would be called ODD too.

Your child may be struggling because of an ASD. Find out what

behaviors he has, and why they are caused. Looking into that, will

help more clearly describe his 'label.'

In MY expriance, yeah, the ODD meant to my sons school, " he is a

problem and has a BEHAVIORAL Problem, and we will treat him in such

a way that proves it!!! "

Arghh!!

Who is considering him to be ODD?

(don't tell me anyone at the school. I just might have to jump over

and , I don't know... bite them. hahahaha Just kidding! A little

mean, I know.... Just a reaction to the three letters. ODD)

*smile*

B

>

> How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum

who is

> also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral

therapy

> or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or

their

> IEP?

>

> Thanks,

> Donna

>

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Hi,

My child was diagnosed aspergers and ODD. His behavior can be disruptive in a

a classroom when he gets out of control. It changed his IEP only because I

asked for it to be changed. I wanted him to have a safe place he could go to

when he was feeling out of sorts. He now goes to his guidence counselors office

and vents for a while till he feels better and is able to continue his day.

They say that as they mature (my son is 13) both the ODD and the aspergers

improves. I think that it all depends on the school and how it is treated

there. We had a very different experience in MA where we just moved from. They

just used to call me to get him when he was acting out and then they used to

suspend him for a few days. He spent more days at home than at school. Here in

Texas it is a complete other story. Much better and a whole lot more

understanding.. Joan

ppanda65@... wrote:

In a message dated 5/22/2006 1:18:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

donnabzy@... writes:

How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum who is

also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral therapy

or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or their

IEP?

Thanks,

Donna

Donna, there is a fine line between what is truly AS and what spills over

into ODD. My son was also considered for that diagnosis. I would not

encourage you to share a diagnosis of ODD with the school. It is a behavioral

diagnosis and would not warrant understanding by school officials that the

diagnosis of AS would. ODD is a behavioral diagnosis, AS is a neurological

diagnosis. Pam :)

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--- Donna B <donnabzy@...> wrote:

> How many of you here, if any, have a child on the

> autism spectrum who is

> also being considered to have ODD?

My son was given a diagnosis of AS, ADHD, OCD, ODD,

and depression by the first psych we saw-who pushed

meds like crazy. While he was on some of the meds he

has been on (Paxil, Lexapro, Risperadal, Geodon,) he

exibited some ODD tendencies. Now that he isn't on any

of those meds, he no longer shows the signs of any ODD

tendencies. Needless to say, we left that psych in a

hurry. The new psych only addressed the OCD and has

medicated him for that and he has done wonderful. No

ODD at all.

So far school doesn't really want to recognize any of

the diagnosis. He is under Autism for his eligibility

for services. No one really sees any problems except

for written/expressive language. However, while we had

the meds and everything was a nightmare, the teachers

were really for us medicating him. He had to be on

Xanax to even attempt to go to school. Then they

complained he was too drugged.

It didn't change the schools view towards his IEP

since they thought I was enabling a child that was

lazy. This is our story.

Melinda

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>

> > How many of you here, if any, have a child on the

> > autism spectrum who is

> > also being considered to have ODD?

>

> My son was given a diagnosis of AS, ADHD, OCD, ODD,

> and depression by the first psych we saw-who pushed

> meds like crazy. While he was on some of the meds he

> has been on (Paxil, Lexapro, Risperadal, Geodon,) he

> exibited some ODD tendencies. Now that he isn't on any

> of those meds, he no longer shows the signs of any ODD

> tendencies. Needless to say, we left that psych in a

> hurry. The new psych only addressed the OCD and has

> medicated him for that and he has done wonderful. No

> ODD at all.

>

> So far school doesn't really want to recognize any of

> the diagnosis. He is under Autism for his eligibility

> for services. No one really sees any problems except

> for written/expressive language. However, while we had

> the meds and everything was a nightmare, the teachers

> were really for us medicating him. He had to be on

> Xanax to even attempt to go to school. Then they

> complained he was too drugged.

>

> It didn't change the schools view towards his IEP

> since they thought I was enabling a child that was

> lazy. This is our story.

>

> Melinda

>

It didn't change the schools view towards his IEP

since they thought I was enabling a child that was

lazy. This is our story.

I can SOOOO relate to this statement...It is a shame and disgrace

in my mind in this day and time with all the information out there

that these teachers that think we are enabling our kids can't just

get on the computer and spend a couple of hours reading about

aspergers and at least make an attempt to 'get it'. I'll stop

ranting now!! :) Toni

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I'm sorry everyone in this thread has to jump through these multiple hoops.

Professionals who know autism/asperger's (ASDs) know that the diagnoses of

ODD and ASDs are mutually exclusive.

The diagnostic criteria for Oppositional Defiant disorder are:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at

least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:

1. often loses temper

2. often argues with adults

3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules

4. often deliberately annoys people

5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior

6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others

7. is often angry and resentful

8. is often spiteful or vindictive

With ASDs the intent is not there - it's part of the ASD.

There is a general problem with the the ODD diagnosis -

-It puts all of the responsibility on the child for his or her actions when

there often is a good reason a kid is acting out

-It labels the kid's actions as being deliberate.

-It assumes the caregivers and diagnostician is capable of reading the kid's

mind

-It assumes blames the child and or the parents for the kid's actions

-ODD diagnoses can be used by the school as a way to evade their legal

responsibility to provide services for a kid with ADHD an ASD or other

neurological differences. It's much cheaper to label a kid ODD (aka BRAT)

than to provide services to which the kid is legally entitled to until age

21.

-The diagnosis at its core is moralistic and doesn't ah...um..smell like a

medical type diagnosis that belongs in the DSM.

There are many professionals who think the ODD diagnosis is a joke and

reflects mid-1990s upper-middle class anxiety.

The dual diagnosis of ASD/ODD is common, but again it is not a valid

diagnosis. It's saying the kid might have autism - but he's really just a

BRAT.

I could write a dissertation length post on this but I don't wish to bug

anyone :)

Diagnosing a kid with an ASD as being ODD is just being stupid.

~d

On 5/22/06, Donna B <donnabzy@...> wrote:

>

> How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum who is

> also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral therapy

> or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or their

> IEP?

>

> Thanks,

> Donna

>

>

>

>

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Thank you for this post. I have taken this position on ODD with professionals

and sited Atwood, but they still don't get it. They think my son is somehow

being manipulative and I feel the issues are a part of the Autism diagnosis. I

have never told the school about the ODD diagnosis because that would just make

getting what he needs so much harder than it already is.

Nora

Dovid Hawke <cdhawke@...> wrote:

I'm sorry everyone in this thread has to jump through these multiple hoops.

Professionals who know autism/asperger's (ASDs) know that the diagnoses of

ODD and ASDs are mutually exclusive.

The diagnostic criteria for Oppositional Defiant disorder are:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at

least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:

1. often loses temper

2. often argues with adults

3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules

4. often deliberately annoys people

5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior

6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others

7. is often angry and resentful

8. is often spiteful or vindictive

With ASDs the intent is not there - it's part of the ASD.

There is a general problem with the the ODD diagnosis -

-It puts all of the responsibility on the child for his or her actions when

there often is a good reason a kid is acting out

-It labels the kid's actions as being deliberate.

-It assumes the caregivers and diagnostician is capable of reading the kid's

mind

-It assumes blames the child and or the parents for the kid's actions

-ODD diagnoses can be used by the school as a way to evade their legal

responsibility to provide services for a kid with ADHD an ASD or other

neurological differences. It's much cheaper to label a kid ODD (aka BRAT)

than to provide services to which the kid is legally entitled to until age

21.

-The diagnosis at its core is moralistic and doesn't ah...um..smell like a

medical type diagnosis that belongs in the DSM.

There are many professionals who think the ODD diagnosis is a joke and

reflects mid-1990s upper-middle class anxiety.

The dual diagnosis of ASD/ODD is common, but again it is not a valid

diagnosis. It's saying the kid might have autism - but he's really just a

BRAT.

I could write a dissertation length post on this but I don't wish to bug

anyone :)

Diagnosing a kid with an ASD as being ODD is just being stupid.

~d

On 5/22/06, Donna B <donnabzy@...> wrote:

>

> How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum who is

> also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral therapy

> or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or their

> IEP?

>

> Thanks,

> Donna

>

>

>

>

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i konw its hard for you to let the school know but i wont be harder one him if

you jest tell them maybe you need help email me i know alot people how have

that ishyou and the teahers fors that ishyou a nonverbal childeran cant help

the fact the have autism i think if you go to a suport groups that can help you

not to get upset ok thanks for understanding the ishyou

tiffani

Nora Bigley <nora9400@...> wrote:

Thank you for this post. I have taken this position on ODD with professionals

and sited Atwood, but they still don't get it. They think my son is somehow

being manipulative and I feel the issues are a part of the Autism diagnosis. I

have never told the school about the ODD diagnosis because that would just make

getting what he needs so much harder than it already is.

Nora

Dovid Hawke <cdhawke@...> wrote:

I'm sorry everyone in this thread has to jump through these multiple hoops.

Professionals who know autism/asperger's (ASDs) know that the diagnoses of

ODD and ASDs are mutually exclusive.

The diagnostic criteria for Oppositional Defiant disorder are:

A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at

least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:

1. often loses temper

2. often argues with adults

3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules

4. often deliberately annoys people

5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior

6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others

7. is often angry and resentful

8. is often spiteful or vindictive

With ASDs the intent is not there - it's part of the ASD.

There is a general problem with the the ODD diagnosis -

-It puts all of the responsibility on the child for his or her actions when

there often is a good reason a kid is acting out

-It labels the kid's actions as being deliberate.

-It assumes the caregivers and diagnostician is capable of reading the kid's

mind

-It assumes blames the child and or the parents for the kid's actions

-ODD diagnoses can be used by the school as a way to evade their legal

responsibility to provide services for a kid with ADHD an ASD or other

neurological differences. It's much cheaper to label a kid ODD (aka BRAT)

than to provide services to which the kid is legally entitled to until age

21.

-The diagnosis at its core is moralistic and doesn't ah...um..smell like a

medical type diagnosis that belongs in the DSM.

There are many professionals who think the ODD diagnosis is a joke and

reflects mid-1990s upper-middle class anxiety.

The dual diagnosis of ASD/ODD is common, but again it is not a valid

diagnosis. It's saying the kid might have autism - but he's really just a

BRAT.

I could write a dissertation length post on this but I don't wish to bug

anyone :)

Diagnosing a kid with an ASD as being ODD is just being stupid.

~d

On 5/22/06, Donna B <donnabzy@...> wrote:

>

> How many of you here, if any, have a child on the autism spectrum who is

> also being considered to have ODD? Did it change your behavioral therapy

> or anything else? Did it change how the school views your child or their

> IEP?

>

> Thanks,

> Donna

>

>

>

>

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VERY WELL PUT!

this is what I would say, but not so elequently:)

Thanks so much

*smiles*

lisa b

>

> I'm sorry everyone in this thread has to jump through these

multiple hoops.

>

> Professionals who know autism/asperger's (ASDs) know that the

diagnoses of

> ODD and ASDs are mutually exclusive.

>

> The diagnostic criteria for Oppositional Defiant disorder are:

>

> A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior

lasting at

> least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are

present:

>

> 1. often loses temper

> 2. often argues with adults

> 3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults'

requests or rules

> 4. often deliberately annoys people

> 5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior

> 6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others

> 7. is often angry and resentful

> 8. is often spiteful or vindictive

>

> With ASDs the intent is not there - it's part of the ASD.

>

> There is a general problem with the the ODD diagnosis -

>

> -It puts all of the responsibility on the child for his or her

actions when

> there often is a good reason a kid is acting out

>

> -It labels the kid's actions as being deliberate.

>

> -It assumes the caregivers and diagnostician is capable of reading

the kid's

> mind

>

> -It assumes blames the child and or the parents for the kid's

actions

>

> -ODD diagnoses can be used by the school as a way to evade their

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