Re: bad side effects from nutritrional therapy

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth

I'm sorry to hear of you child's troubles. Did you start everything

at once, or did you introduce things seperately, gradually working up

to a full dose? Sudden changes can be a cause of difficulty, even or

especially if the child is deficient in these nutrients. Also, with

combination products like Super Nu Thera and amino complexes, if one

ingredient is causing a problem it's impossible to isolate which one

it is. It is probably wise to take everything out for a while until

things settle down, then add supplements back in one at a time,

starting at 1/8 -1/4 of the full dose and slowly working up. Note

both good and bad changes. This way you'll find out which supplement

does what. There is a good document on implementing supplements in

the files of this group.

Agitation, flushed face and ears are commonly associated with phenol

problems. If you give a detailed list of the ingredients in each

supplement (and how much the child gets of each), someone should be

able to help see if there are any high-phenol items, or if something

else could be at play here. Diet also plays a huge role. Of course,

it could be something else - but this is common. You could consider

adding No-Fenol to your program.

We haven't used GABA, but do use 50 mg of 5-htp every night for sleep

issues. We have had no trouble with it, but not everyone does well

on 5-htp.

I hope this helps

René

>

> after about

> a week he began to seem frantic and anxious. Almost manic.

Definitely

> at his worst that he had ever been in his low times. He's highly

> agitated, aggressive and obsessive about the littlest things. He

has

> been on risperdal for over a year and that seemed to help a lot of

> these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are back

> worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver

support,

> amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters and

fish

> oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving

young

> kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. > Beth

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Rene. Your thoughts are mine in that I felt we started this

road too quickly. His therapist told us to start him on all of these

right away. That kind of surprised me. What products have phenol? His

identical twin is on the protocol and is tolerating it better although

his face is flushed, too. I haven't changed their diets during this at

all. We were told not to. I will definitely be backing off on all

this. I have 3 kids going through this regime. It is overwhelming

trying to get all these supplements down them at the regular

intervals. I'm about ready to have a nervous breakdown and then to

throw Reece's off the chart symptoms into the mix.....well, it's loony

here......Reece is oppositional anyway, so to try and make him take

these supplements....it's insane.

Beth

[Guest guest]

Hi Beth

I don't know why, but often people who probably should know better

like nutritionists, doctors, etc, do give parents a laundry list of

supplements to implement all at once. I've heard of many problems

with this approach. I'm not a phenol expert at all, but Dana knows a

lot about them. Here's her phenol page:

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

I do hope things get better for you soon. Trust your instincts.

take care

René

>

> Thanks, Rene. Your thoughts are mine in that I felt we started this

> road too quickly. His therapist told us to start him on all of

these

> right away. That kind of surprised me. What products have

phenol? ......Reece is oppositional anyway, so to try and make him

take

> these supplements....it's insane.

> Beth

>

[Guest guest]

It could be the super nu thera. My son becae extremely hyper and

agitated with SNT. We have since changed over to Yasko's general

vitamin which has lower doses of P5P. It has made an amazing

difference. My son used to have the red cheeks and ears as well.

It was a phenol reaction. He no longer reacts now that we have his

immune system regulated with IVIG.

a

>

> I have a 5 year old with PDDNOS that after urine and hair sample

> testing was put on a comprehensive protocol of nutritional support

> therapy to heal his gut and reduce his liver toxicity. Aside from

the

> overwhelmingness of just trying to get the stuff down him, after

about

> a week he began to seem frantic and anxious. Almost manic.

Definitely

> at his worst that he had ever been in his low times. He's highly

> agitated, aggressive and obsessive about the littlest things. He

has

> been on risperdal for over a year and that seemed to help a lot of

> these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are back

> worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver

support,

> amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters and

fish

> oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving

young

> kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. Has anyone

had

> any experience with this? The nutritional therapist said she had

never

> heard of anyone not getting better. We are miffed as we really

felt we

> were on the right road. Thoughts?

> Beth

>

[Guest guest]

Consider stopping all the new supplements and adding them in one new one per

week so you have an idea which one is causing what (positive or negative). Also

carefully look at all the ingredients in each, including whatever they use for

fillers. Others will comment on specific supplements.

S S

<tt>

I have a 5 year old with PDDNOS that after urine and hair sample <BR>

testing was put on a comprehensive protocol of nutritional support <BR>

therapy to heal his gut and reduce his liver toxicity. Aside from the <BR>

overwhelmingness of just trying to get the stuff down him, after about <BR>

a week he began to seem frantic and anxious. Almost manic. Definitely <BR>

at his worst that he had ever been in his low times. He's highly <BR>

agitated, aggressive and obsessive about the littlest things. He has <BR>

been on risperdal for over a year and that seemed to help a lot of <BR>

these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are back <BR>

worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver support, <BR>

amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters and fish <BR>

oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving young <BR>

kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. Has anyone had <BR>

any experience with this? The nutritional therapist said she had never <BR>

heard of anyone not getting better. We are miffed as we really felt we <BR>

were on the right road. Thoughts?<BR>

Beth<BR>

_______________________________________________

Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com

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[Guest guest]

a,

Forgive my still learning lingo, but I'm not sure what P5P and IVIG

means. How can you tell if one of the supplements contains phenol?

What should I be looking for on the ingredient panel?

mb

> >

> > I have a 5 year old with PDDNOS that after urine and hair sample

> > testing was put on a comprehensive protocol of nutritional

support

> > therapy to heal his gut and reduce his liver toxicity. Aside

from

> the

> > overwhelmingness of just trying to get the stuff down him, after

> about

> > a week he began to seem frantic and anxious. Almost manic.

> Definitely

> > at his worst that he had ever been in his low times. He's highly

> > agitated, aggressive and obsessive about the littlest things. He

> has

> > been on risperdal for over a year and that seemed to help a lot

of

> > these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are

back

> > worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver

> support,

> > amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters

and

> fish

> > oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving

> young

> > kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. Has

anyone

> had

> > any experience with this? The nutritional therapist said she had

> never

> > heard of anyone not getting better. We are miffed as we really

> felt we

> > were on the right road. Thoughts?

> > Beth

> >

>

[Guest guest]

a,

Forgive my still learning lingo, but I'm not sure what P5P and IVIG

means. How can you tell if one of the supplements contains phenol?

What should I be looking for on the ingredient panel?

mb

> >

> > I have a 5 year old with PDDNOS that after urine and hair sample

> > testing was put on a comprehensive protocol of nutritional

support

> > therapy to heal his gut and reduce his liver toxicity. Aside

from

> the

> > overwhelmingness of just trying to get the stuff down him, after

> about

> > a week he began to seem frantic and anxious. Almost manic.

> Definitely

> > at his worst that he had ever been in his low times. He's highly

> > agitated, aggressive and obsessive about the littlest things. He

> has

> > been on risperdal for over a year and that seemed to help a lot

of

> > these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are

back

> > worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver

> support,

> > amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters

and

> fish

> > oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving

> young

> > kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. Has

anyone

> had

> > any experience with this? The nutritional therapist said she had

> never

> > heard of anyone not getting better. We are miffed as we really

> felt we

> > were on the right road. Thoughts?

> > Beth

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> these symptoms, but now with the nutritional regime they are back

> worse than ever. He has been taking 5HTP and GABA plus, liver support,

> amino balance, super nu thera, calcium mag, protein digesters and fish

> oils. I read today about some people recommending against giving young

> kids HTP and GABA. He also has a flushed face and ears. Has anyone had

> any experience with this?

You should definitely stop all of them, wait a few days [maybe a

week], then add them ONE at a time.

SNT commonly causes problems, especially for kids who are phenol

intolerant

http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm

Cal/mag was a problem for my son because he was calcium toxic.

Fish oils and other EFAs were a problem until I corrected his

mitochondrial issues.

>> The nutritional therapist said she had never

> heard of anyone not getting better.

Then she has not seen very many autistic kids.

>> We are miffed as we really felt we

> were on the right road. Thoughts?

You are probably on the right road, but many times [especially for

kids like my son], you have to fix one problem before you can give

supplements to fix other problems. For example, my son did improve

when I gave most of the supplements you list above. However, at first

he did not tolerate them, and he needed either ALA chelation or other

supplements FIRST, in order for his body to tolerate the other

supplements he needed.

Dana

[Guest guest]

Dana,

Wow! Have I come to the right place!! We have not done any chelating

yet. His antimony was off the charts and his liver toxicities were

very very high. My mother instinct told me that his body was not able

to process all this at once. Almost a reverse toxicity. I know that he

needs to be chelated. I am not sure what all the " rules " are to

reading the hair sample. Is there a good place to go to read about

that? The nutritionist doesn't want to chelate until his body is able

to tolerate it. I am such a newbie to all of this.

Thank you for your great advice. After two days off he is like a new

kid. Not frantic or anxious. Not even really that aggressive. Woke up

talking up a storm. Which leads me to believe that he was getting the

benefit of some of the supps he was on, but whatever was interfering

with it was masking. He is also on Risperdal. Does anyone have any

thoughts on whether I keep him on or wean him off?/ side effects to

combinations of supps with Risperdal?

Again, thanks.

Beth

[Guest guest]

>>I am not sure what all the " rules " are to

> reading the hair sample. Is there a good place to go to read about

> that?

This site is good

http://home.earthlink.net/~moriam/

>>He is also on Risperdal. Does anyone have any

> thoughts on whether I keep him on or wean him off?/ side effects to

> combinations of supps with Risperdal?

I don't know much about Risperdal, because I have never used it, but

there are several successes with weaning off Risperdal on the enzyme

forum, you can try enzymes, or post there and ask what has helped

/

http://www.enzymestuff.com/

Dana