Re: Dodged a bullet today

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/5/2003 9:23:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

rwinters@... writes:

> p.s. to Dawn - Braden says they will next be doing self portraits,

> which he says he objects to because he hates his face and because he

> knows he won't be able to do it well and he's a perfectionist. Isn't

> that funny that both our kids would have issues over self portraits

> in the first week of school??!! Anyway, Braden has promised

> to " try. " I see a ripped paper in my future

MY son had a similar problem in school today, he refused to write a

paragraph on a book they had read in class, he said the teacher told them to

write a

paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he could do that

in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol. ANyway the teacher

thinks she can get him to do more on Monday lets see can she lol.

[Guest guest]

> MY son had a similar problem in school today, he refused to write

a

> paragraph on a book they had read in class, he said the teacher

told them to write a

> paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he

could do that

> in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol. ANyway the

teacher

> thinks she can get him to do more on Monday lets see can she lol.

ROFLOL!! How can ya argue with THAT logic?? My money is on your

son!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/2003 8:19:28 AM Eastern Standard Time,

swamp1@... writes:

> And I don't really understand why if something can be explained in a

> sentence, then why would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also, it

is

> absolutely necessary if the point of an assignment is to learn/practice

> paragraph writing as opposed to answering a particular question, that this be

made

> clear to the student.

> in Massachusetts

> I think for my son's purposes they are to be getting ready for a big

state wide writing test, which I have known my son will never pass. He is to

be using a lap top (digital notebook) for all writing assignments but his has

been broken since the first day of school, and he also seems to be refusing to

use it for some reasont his school year. All of a sudden this school year he

has an issue of not wanting to use it and refuses to type into it UGH. We

worked so hard last school year to get this available to him and now he does not

want it. HE feels it makes him look too different like he does not on his own

right. ANyway that paragraph is practice for that test. And I think I will have

to work with him on adding fluff.

[Guest guest]

> MY son had a similar problem in school today, he refused to write a

> paragraph on a book they had read in class, he said the teacher told them to

write a

> paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he could do that

> in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol. ANyway the teacher

> thinks she can get him to do more on Monday lets see can she lol.

My kids also tend to write the minimum necessary to answer a question. They

have no idea what else to say. We have been trying to teach them the fine art

of adding " fluff " . When they think about it as fluff, they are somewhat more

successful than when they think that everything they write needs to be answering

the question directly. However, this is still a big problem. And I don't

really understand why if something can be explained in a sentence, then why

would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also, it is absolutely

necessary if the point of an assignment is to learn/practice paragraph writing

as opposed to answering a particular question, that this be made clear to the

student.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/6/03 10:58:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

swamp1@... writes:

> The topic for the long composition involved describing someone you respect

> and why you respect that person. (Great topic for an aspie, huh?) Isaac

> spent a long time trying to make sense of the topic, but ended up leaving the

> long composition Entirely Blank. We got a nasty letter from the principal

> about how Isaac had " refused " to do the composition. (No clue there).

We have the North Carolina Written test here.

's class were the first ones to take it. After scoring wonderfully well

on the IOWA's the year before ( the lastyear NC used them). His new principal

was counting onmy dear son to be one of his shinning stars on the written

test. To say the man was (and IS) clueless is a major understatement. has

always had problems with writing essays. The prompt was 'Tell about a good

time you had with a friend " . stared at the blank paper for an hour before

the prinicpal came in and (major no no) tried to give the child a clue to

write -- " just talk about a time you played baseball with a friend " he told my

athletically challenged son. managed to write his name on the paper and

rephrase the prompt, whch earned him a 1 out of 4 posible points. The principal

literally got in my face at the end of the day yelling at me about what my son

had done - according to him he REFUSED to do the test. I rather comely

informed him that he waould NOTspreak with me in such a manner and if and when

he

manged to get aholds of himself we would discuss it then and not untilthen

turned around and walked away. He never did mention it again. Then again the

man

was a complete moron.

PS His wife was the school counselor the year before (she transfered when he

became prinicpal there)- SHE was great - always felt sorry for her though.

God never gives you more than you can handle; he just has more confidence in

me then I have in myself.********* " Do Little Things With Great Love "

Mother

[Guest guest]

>

>

> My kids also tend to write the minimum necessary to answer a

question. They have no idea what else to say. We have been trying

to teach them the fine art of adding " fluff " . When they think about

it as fluff, they are somewhat more successful than when they think

that everything they write needs to be answering the question

directly. However, this is still a big problem. And I don't really

understand why if something can be explained in a sentence, then why

would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also, it is

absolutely necessary if the point of an assignment is to

learn/practice paragraph writing as opposed to answering a particular

question, that this be made clear to the student.

> in Massachusetts

Right. And give them something to write about that interests them

and requires more than a sentence to write.

Writing is very challenging for a lot of our aspies. The process of

coming up with an topic, formulating ideas, prioritizing them,

organizing them and then putting it all together in a cohesive whole

is extremely complicated and can cause a great deal of stress for our

kids with writing difficulties. And to make matters worse, writing

is more and more on the forefront of the education curriculum.

Whereas before we might have had to deal with this in English class,

now - in an attempt to integrate skills into every area - they are

being given writing assignments in many classes. Practically the

only class where we feel safe from writing assignments is math class

(not counting the times they have to explain their process for

solving the problem - another sticky area for aspies!)

Kathy

[Guest guest]

Especially when the have to write out their answer to a math question in

words. The state test in PA (PSSA's) on some questions require the studen

not only to show their work but in some cases to actually write in words the

process they used. This could be a double whammy for our kids as they will

say I got the answer why do I have to do all that other stuff? And this

bothers not only aspies. The teachers have to change the focus of all the

students by telling them that HOW you get the answer is more important than

the answer itself. That is even a harder concept ot grasp for our kids at

times. My son was always the type that the answer needed to be on the paper

BEFORE he read the question! LOL Good thing he was out of school before the

PSSA's were used here!

I like that idea about adding " fluff " . That is what the teacher is trying to

do with the students. When they are studying a book (many english classes

also combine reading) the teacher will naturally combine the writing skills

used in english class to study the book they may be reading in class for the

literature part. Studying a work of literature is to get to the " fluff " of

the book. A suggestion may be, and it is something that can be put in your

notes if this becomews a consistant problem, would be for your child to tell

either you or the teacher about the fluff. Start by having him dictate then

move to where he is being coached to write what he is saying. I would also

keep explaining " fluff " is what gives a book deeper meaning that sometimes

can't be seen by just reading the book and that writers use the fluff as a

writing tool which is why the teacher wants to study " fluff " . Maybe that

sounds like a bunch of balony but if it works, use it.

Been there and done all that,

[Guest guest]

And I don't really understand why if something can be explained in a

sentence, then why would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also,

it is absolutely necessary if the point of an assignment is to

learn/practice paragraph writing as opposed to answering a particular

question, that this be made clear to the student.

<<

GOOD POINT - may I quote you? We have this problem too. Nick used to

write book reports one sentence long. We had to give him a list of details

we wanted, and ask him to write a sentence for each thing... the kids uses

commas and semi-colons very effectively for a ten year old... LOL. Now he's

reading chapter books, and we have asked him to write one sentence about

each main character, and one sentence about each chapter or plot point... he

does much better with a checklist, and I am hoping this year's teacher will

be okay with that...

Good luck to you

Tammy

[Guest guest]

> And I don't really understand why if something can be explained in a

> sentence, then why would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also,

> it is absolutely necessary if the point of an assignment is to

> learn/practice paragraph writing as opposed to answering a particular

> question, that this be made clear to the student.

> <<

> GOOD POINT - may I quote you? We have this problem too. Nick used to

> write book reports one sentence long. We had to give him a list of details

> we wanted, and ask him to write a sentence for each thing... the kids uses

> commas and semi-colons very effectively for a ten year old... LOL. Now he's

> reading chapter books, and we have asked him to write one sentence about

> each main character, and one sentence about each chapter or plot point... he

> does much better with a checklist, and I am hoping this year's teacher will

> be okay with that...

> Good luck to you

> Tammy

Tammy,

Of course you may quote me. We actually have it in the kids' IEPs that the

" function of all assignments " must be explained. Unfortunately, many teachers

don't have a clue what that means.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

> > I think for my son's purposes they are to be getting ready for a

big

> state wide writing test, which I have known my son will never pass. He is to

> be using a lap top (digital notebook) for all writing assignments but his has

> been broken since the first day of school, and he also seems to be refusing to

> use it for some reasont his school year. All of a sudden this school year he

> has an issue of not wanting to use it and refuses to type into it UGH. We

> worked so hard last school year to get this available to him and now he does

not

> want it. HE feels it makes him look too different like he does not on his own

> right. ANyway that paragraph is practice for that test. And I think I will

have

> to work with him on adding fluff.

,

I don't know what your statewide writing test is like. Here we have the MCAS in

various subjects. When Isaac was in grade 7 he had the English Language Arts

test. It came in two parts: the long composition, and a part that involved

reading a number of passages than answering multiple choice and " open response "

(like short essays) questions. The topic for the long composition involved

describing someone you respect and why you respect that person. (Great topic

for an aspie, huh?) Isaac spent a long time trying to make sense of the topic,

but ended up leaving the long composition Entirely Blank. We got a nasty letter

from the principal about how Isaac had " refused " to do the composition. (No

clue there). In any case, the final score is a combination of the two parts,

and while Isaac did not do particularly well on the test, his score was NOT in

the failing range.

Someday I may rant about how hopeless the MCAS is, but I will spare you for now.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

them to write a

> paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he could do that

> in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol.

I am finding this amusing in a strange way. Now I'm back in college and

taking a writing class the objective is to take a passage or article - find the

thesis - write one or two sentences at most. Your kids are way ahead of me

LOL.

in NJ---

From:

Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 8:17 AM

Subject: Re: ( ) Dodged a bullet today

> MY son had a similar problem in school today, he refused to write a

> paragraph on a book they had read in class, he said the teacher told them to

write a

> paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he could do that

> in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol. ANyway the teacher

> thinks she can get him to do more on Monday lets see can she lol.

My kids also tend to write the minimum necessary to answer a question. They

have no idea what else to say. We have been trying to teach them the fine art

of adding " fluff " . When they think about it as fluff, they are somewhat more

successful than when they think that everything they write needs to be answering

the question directly. However, this is still a big problem. And I don't

really understand why if something can be explained in a sentence, then why

would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also, it is absolutely

necessary if the point of an assignment is to learn/practice paragraph writing

as opposed to answering a particular question, that this be made clear to the

student.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

<< I like that idea about adding " fluff " . >>

Last year was the first time they had worked on getting Royce to use

fluff. He had a thesauras and he had to find words to add to

sentences that he wrote. It was a slow process but he seemed to be

really trying. I think it might have done good things had they kept

at it. Now he is in a different school and it's doubtful they will

carry it on.

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<> The topic for the long composition involved describing someone you

respect > and why you respect that person.>

well, ds had the same assignemnt only it was worded: It is important to

respect friends. how do you respect PEOPLE (my emphasis), and he only wrote :

" what, you think I have ADULTS firends ??? don't you know I am only 10.5 ??? "

F

[Guest guest]

<<<<<<<> paragraph about why and where the book took place and since he could do

that > in one sentence he did not feel the need to do more lol.>

when my brother (NT) was asked in grade 7 to write a composition about a day in

winter suing adjectives he wrote (SERIOUSLY !!!)

" It rained Hard. "

F

[Guest guest]

> Hi, I am from Massachusetts, too. My son had a similar question on his 4th

grade MCAS. You're right, a " great topic " . I think his question was write about

someone who means much to you, and has influenced your life. He wrote about our

dog.

The topic for the long composition involved describing someone you respect and

why you respect that person. (Great topic for an aspie, huh?) Isaac spent a

long time trying to make sense of the topic, but ended up leaving the long

composition Entirely Blank. We got a nasty letter from the principal about how

Isaac had " refused " to do the composition. (No clue there). In any case, the

final score is a combination of the two parts, and while Isaac did not do

particularly well on the test, his score was NOT in the failing range.

Someday I may rant about how hopeless the MCAS is, but I will spare you for now.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

I keep reading the discussion, looking throught all the posts. I couldn't agree

with you more. If my son can get enough of the point across in just a few

sentences, than why can't he do that. It shows he did the reading, or he picked

something to write about.

I feel the same way when it comes to math. He can do it, although very slow.

So if there are 50 multiplication problems, some kids will get it done in 30

minutes, my son might be any hour and a half, so he starts getting frustrated

and tired. I say if you can do 20, and you get them all right, then we know you

understand the concept on how to do it. I would rather 20 done right in 30 to 45

minutes then see him go into an emotional storm that will exhaust him even more.

<swamp1@...> wrote:

> And I don't really understand why if something can be explained in a

> sentence, then why would a paragraph be necessary or even desirable? Also,

> it is absolutely necessary if the point of an assignment is to

> learn/practice paragraph writing as opposed to answering a particular

> question, that this be made clear to the student.

> <<

> GOOD POINT - may I quote you? We have this problem too. Nick used to

> write book reports one sentence long. We had to give him a list of details

> we wanted, and ask him to write a sentence for each thing... the kids uses

> commas and semi-colons very effectively for a ten year old... LOL. Now he's

> reading chapter books, and we have asked him to write one sentence about

> each main character, and one sentence about each chapter or plot point... he

> does much better with a checklist, and I am hoping this year's teacher will

> be okay with that...

> Good luck to you

> Tammy

Tammy,

Of course you may quote me. We actually have it in the kids' IEPs that the

" function of all assignments " must be explained. Unfortunately, many teachers

don't have a clue what that means.

in Massachusetts

[Guest guest]

.. I would rather 20 done right in 30 to 45 minutes then see him go into an

emotional storm that will exhaust him even more.

>

This is why I have been storming the office with papers about Asperger's and

homework... I think if you mentioned Tony Attwood, they would probably

cry... LOL. I have made it clear to them that the purpose of homework is to

show that they understand the lessons, and anything beyond that is busy

work, and with my child unnecessary and cruel. They think I am being

overprotective, and letting him be lazy... I argue, this is NOT a compliance

issue!!! This is dysgraphia and AS. I won the argument. Homework assignments

will be modified to an amount that demonstrates his understanding, and he

can do all but Math on the computer. It pays to know where to find the

articles from the experts... Don't we have a list of those links somewhere-

I mean other than Pam's brain... (Pam is queen of the links... she has them

ALL...)

Love

Tammy

[Guest guest]

I am just about to begin my storming. My son just started high school this year.

Six weeks into the school year and I have not seen him do one bit of homework. I

have told his teachers he has Asperger's and dysgraphia. I have also made it

very clear that if he isn't turning in work or in danger of failing to let me

know right away and not when it is too late. Well, I went thru his bac pack last

night and every paper I saw was a failing paper. Most papers you couldn't even

read his handwriting.

We have a tentative SST meeting the week of the 15th. But I am already being met

with resistance when I tell them I want an IEP for him. We shall see how

resistant they are once I get in there.

MISSY

SAHM to some special kids!!!

Excuse Me While I Go

Raise Tomorrow's Future.

Re: ( ) Dodged a bullet today

. I would rather 20 done right in 30 to 45 minutes then see him go into an

emotional storm that will exhaust him even more.

>

This is why I have been storming the office with papers about Asperger's and

homework... I think if you mentioned Tony Attwood, they would probably

cry... LOL. I have made it clear to them that the purpose of homework is to

show that they understand the lessons, and anything beyond that is busy

work, and with my child unnecessary and cruel. They think I am being

overprotective, and letting him be lazy... I argue, this is NOT a compliance

issue!!! This is dysgraphia and AS. I won the argument. Homework assignments

will be modified to an amount that demonstrates his understanding, and he

can do all but Math on the computer. It pays to know where to find the

articles from the experts... Don't we have a list of those links somewhere-

I mean other than Pam's brain... (Pam is queen of the links... she has them

ALL...)

Love

Tammy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/7/2003 10:01:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,

itchy10@... writes:

> handwriting.

> We have a tentative SST meeting the week of the 15th. But I am already being

> met with resistance when I tell them I want an IEP for him. We shall see how

> resistant they are once I get in there.

> That's the problem telling the teachers without having an IEP in place is

not a good thing. Get a good IEP and if necessary get him a laptop computer paid

for by the school sx ask for a technology evaluation for this. MIchelle

[Guest guest]

That is in Bradley's IEP. Shorter assignments. They said if they have 10

math problems, he may get 6 so he can do the same work (difficulty) but not

the same quantity. That is how they explained it to me.

Dawn

I keep reading the discussion, looking throught all the posts. I couldn't

agree with you more. If my son can get enough of the point across in just a

few sentences, than why can't he do that. It shows he did the reading, or he

picked something to write about.

I feel the same way when it comes to math. He can do it, although very slow.

So if there are 50 multiplication problems, some kids will get it done in 30

minutes, my son might be any hour and a half, so he starts getting

frustrated and tired. I say if you can do 20, and you get them all right,

then we know you understand the concept on how to do it. I would rather 20

done right in 30 to 45 minutes then see him go into an emotional storm that

will exhaust him even more.

[Guest guest]

> I keep reading the discussion, looking throught all the posts. I

couldn't agree with you more. If my son can get enough of the point

across in just a few sentences, than why can't he do that. It shows

he did the reading, or he picked something to write about.

> I feel the same way when it comes to math. He can do it, although

very slow. So if there are 50 multiplication problems, some kids

will get it done in 30 minutes, my son might be any hour and a half,

so he starts getting frustrated and tired. I say if you can do 20,

and you get them all right, then we know you understand the concept

on how to do it. I would rather 20 done right in 30 to 45 minutes

then see him go into an emotional storm that will exhaust him even

more.

Absolutely. And these types of things can and should be written into

the IEP. Also, if handwriting is an issue, allowing for dictation

(among other accomodations)should be written into the IEP. has

dictated many of his homework assignments to me - math and others. I

know he can do it, he doesn't have to focus on all the writing and

get himself frustrated, and we save a lot of time and aggravation -

AND, the teacher can read it!!

Kathy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/7/03 10:01:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

itchy10@... writes:

> We have a tentative SST meeting the week of the 15th. But I am already

> being met with resistance when I tell them I want an IEP for him. We shall see

> how resistant they are once I get in there.

> MISSY

> SAHM to some special kids!!!

>

Take in all those Failing papers. Try to make it clear that he is not

receiving an education right now.

Roxanna

ò¿ò

It makes sense to go up the molehill

dressed for the mountain

Nan, the Wiser

[Guest guest]

I will. He is trying so hard to have a social life it has become an obcessive

thing. He keeps telling me when he is 16 he wants to move out and never come

back. The way is dad pushes him I don't doubt that he will do it.

I think at this point in time he has already given up on high school. He won't

ask for help, he never has. He thinks if he does everyone will know he is is

stupid.

MISSY

SAHM to some special kids!!!

Excuse Me While I Go

Raise Tomorrow's Future.

Re: ( ) Dodged a bullet today

In a message dated 9/7/03 10:01:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

itchy10@... writes:

> We have a tentative SST meeting the week of the 15th. But I am already

> being met with resistance when I tell them I want an IEP for him. We shall

see

> how resistant they are once I get in there.

> MISSY

> SAHM to some special kids!!!

>

Take in all those Failing papers. Try to make it clear that he is not

receiving an education right now.

Roxanna

ò¿ò

It makes sense to go up the molehill

dressed for the mountain

Nan, the Wiser

[Guest guest]

> I keep reading the discussion, looking throught all the posts. I

couldn't agree with you more. If my son can get enough of the point

across in just a few sentences, than why can't he do that. It shows

he did the reading, or he picked something to write about.

> I feel the same way when it comes to math. He can do it, although

very slow. So if there are 50 multiplication problems, some kids

will get it done in 30 minutes, my son might be any hour and a half,

so he starts getting frustrated and tired. I say if you can do 20,

and you get them all right, then we know you understand the concept

on how to do it. I would rather 20 done right in 30 to 45 minutes

then see him go into an emotional storm that will exhaust him even

more.

I agree with the math part. If you can do all the odds or evens and

show you know the concept, that should suffice.

I don't agree with the writing part except that I do feel the same

pain as everyone else on this subject. I think it's a good thing to

teach expanded writing skills and to teach self expression to our

kids. Notice, I don't say, " Assign them to write 9 paragraphs and

watch them flop around like a fish out of water. " I really believe

that our kids need very specific instruction on how to expand their

writing skills and how to express themselves on paper. I doubt many

are getting this kind of instruction. As I said in a previous post,

my ds was getting it last year and he was improving. His writing

skills were in the 1% on their tests and so perhaps he had only one

direction to go from there, lol. But it was helping.

I doubt he'll ever be a big flowery writer at all. But he has to

learn to do better than he currently can do. I really think it will

affect his functioning as an adult in both his job and his personal

life. If we can get him to an " average " range, I will be happy.

Even low average will make me happy.

Roxanna

[Guest guest]

> I will. He is trying so hard to have a social life it has become an

obcessive thing. He keeps telling me when he is 16 he wants to move

out and never come back. The way is dad pushes him I don't doubt that

he will do it.

> I think at this point in time he has already given up on high

school. He won't ask for help, he never has. He thinks if he does

everyone will know he is is stupid.

> MISSY

> SAHM to some special kids!!!

>

My ds, 14 yo, is the same way. He won't ask for help at all. I

really stress that they have to help him and they always try to get

away with saying, " but he didn't ask for help! " ugh. You just have

to keep pushing. Let us know how it goes!

Roxanna