Movement disorder and Motor Neuron?

[Guest guest]

anyone read or know how possible it is to have a motor neuron disease

such as PLS and a movement disorder (esp related to basal ganglia)?

i am trying to google but seems i just keep coming up with HD and PD

related to basal ganglia. My rheum and holistic MD both have thought

I may have huntington's disease even without family history, or at

least some variant of HD.

also can someone give very simple explanation difference of upper and

lower motor neurons? and how upper and lower effect, what symptoms

match?

PLS, HSP, either seems plausible but seems too i have something like

movement disorder i.e. tremors, jerking/jumping/shaking, involuntary

movements (chorea).

Can someone have PLS and HSP together?

hope not becoming pest just yet if not give me time LOL

marfla

[Guest guest]

Updated 8/05

Marsha I copied the following from the MDA_ALS website because it

made the most sense to me about upper and lower motor neurons. Sorry

the diagram didn't transfer. If you really want to crowd the

crevices of your mind with the facts do a search - I use

www.dogpile.com - for cerebellum or basal ganglia

If you want to view the diagram go to www.mda.org select the ALS info

button.

And for all PLSers with speech symptoms reading who see Bulbar marked

as lower motor neurons. Look into the varies entities within the

cerebellum for an explanation of how yours is still upper motor

neuron.

May you all become a bigger information NERD than I am.

Eva

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE NERVOUS SYSTEM IN ALS?

The muscle-controlling nerve cells, or motor neurons, are divided

into two types. The upper motor neurons are located in the upper part

of the brain and exert some control over the lower motor neurons,

which are in the brainstem and the spinal cord. (See illustration)

1. arm muscle

2. tongue

3. UPPER MOTOR NEURONS

4. BRAINSTEM (BULBAR) LOWER MOTOR NEURONS

5. axon bundles (nerves)

6. rib muscles involved in breathing

7. SPINAL LOWER MOTOR NEURONS

8. leg muscle

In ALS, upper and lower motor neurons degenerate. Upper motor neurons

normally send signals to lower motor neurons, which send signals to

muscles.

The lower motor neurons are directly attached to muscles

through " wires " called axons. Bundles of these axons leave the spinal

cord and extend out to the muscles. It's these bundles that doctors

are referring to when they talk about the " nerves. "

The function of lower motor neurons is straightforward. They

send " go " signals to muscles. When these cells gradually die, as in

ALS, muscles become progressively weaker and eventually unable to

move (paralyzed).

The lower motor neurons that control most of the body are in the

spinal cord. Those that control the muscles of speaking, swallowing

and facial expression are in the brainstem. They're sometimes called

bulbar motor neurons, because the part of the brainstem that houses

them has a bulblike shape. The term bulbar involvement means that the

muscles of the face, mouth and throat are involved in the disease.

The upper motor neurons have more complex functions. It's harder to

study them, and not as much is understood about them, although new

techniques are changing that.

These cells seem to exert complex control over the lower motor

neurons that allow movements to be smooth, directed and varied in

intensity. (For instance, they're part of an elaborate system that

allows a person to aim a hand at a glass of water, pick it up,

estimate its weight, use the right amount of force for its weight,

and lift it to his or her mouth, all while thinking about something

else.) When upper motor neurons are lost and lower motor neurons

remain, movements are still possible but can become " tight " (doctors

use the word spastic for this) and less precise.

In ALS, a combination of these effects is usually seen because both

upper and lower motor neurons are dying. People with ALS can have

weak and wasted muscles with tightness (spasticity). Muscle twitches

and cramps are common; they occur because degenerating axons (nerves)

become " irritable. "

[Guest guest]

thanks Eva, making a little more sense distinguishing between what upper and

lower neurons are and mean.

Be Blessed

Re: Movement disorder and Motor Neuron?

Updated 8/05

Marsha I copied the following from the MDA_ALS website because it

made the most sense to me about upper and lower motor neurons. Sorry

the diagram didn't transfer. If you really want to crowd the

crevices of your mind with the facts do a search - I use

www.dogpile.com - for cerebellum or basal ganglia

If you want to view the diagram go to www.mda.org select the ALS info

button.

And for all PLSers with speech symptoms reading who see Bulbar marked

as lower motor neurons. Look into the varies entities within the

cerebellum for an explanation of how yours is still upper motor

neuron.

May you all become a bigger information NERD than I am.

Eva

WHAT HAPPENS TO THE NERVOUS SYSTEM IN ALS?

The muscle-controlling nerve cells, or motor neurons, are divided

into two types. The upper motor neurons are located in the upper part

of the brain and exert some control over the lower motor neurons,

which are in the brainstem and the spinal cord. (See illustration)

1. arm muscle

2. tongue

3. UPPER MOTOR NEURONS

4. BRAINSTEM (BULBAR) LOWER MOTOR NEURONS

5. axon bundles (nerves)

6. rib muscles involved in breathing

7. SPINAL LOWER MOTOR NEURONS

8. leg muscle

In ALS, upper and lower motor neurons degenerate. Upper motor neurons

normally send signals to lower motor neurons, which send signals to

muscles.

The lower motor neurons are directly attached to muscles

through " wires " called axons. Bundles of these axons leave the spinal

cord and extend out to the muscles. It's these bundles that doctors

are referring to when they talk about the " nerves. "

The function of lower motor neurons is straightforward. They

send " go " signals to muscles. When these cells gradually die, as in

ALS, muscles become progressively weaker and eventually unable to

move (paralyzed).

The lower motor neurons that control most of the body are in the

spinal cord. Those that control the muscles of speaking, swallowing

and facial expression are in the brainstem. They're sometimes called

bulbar motor neurons, because the part of the brainstem that houses

them has a bulblike shape. The term bulbar involvement means that the

muscles of the face, mouth and throat are involved in the disease.

The upper motor neurons have more complex functions. It's harder to

study them, and not as much is understood about them, although new

techniques are changing that.

These cells seem to exert complex control over the lower motor

neurons that allow movements to be smooth, directed and varied in

intensity. (For instance, they're part of an elaborate system that

allows a person to aim a hand at a glass of water, pick it up,

estimate its weight, use the right amount of force for its weight,

and lift it to his or her mouth, all while thinking about something

else.) When upper motor neurons are lost and lower motor neurons

remain, movements are still possible but can become " tight " (doctors

use the word spastic for this) and less precise.

In ALS, a combination of these effects is usually seen because both

upper and lower motor neurons are dying. People with ALS can have

weak and wasted muscles with tightness (spasticity). Muscle twitches

and cramps are common; they occur because degenerating axons (nerves)

become " irritable. "

[Guest guest]

If you have Huntington's they should be able to tell you definitively by looking

for the mutated gene. The upper motor neurons go from the brain to the spinal

cord and when affected symptoms include spasticity, stiffness and poor balance.

Lower motor neurons run from the cord to the muscles and when they are affected

you will see muscle weakness and atrophy as the primary symptoms. I doubt you

would have HSP & PLS together more likely one or the other as symptoms from each

overlap. As little as most MD's know about various neuromuscular diseases, it is

evident by how rigidly they define certain diseases and tell you things like

bladder and bowel urgency is not a symptom of neuromuscular disease, but I'm

sure at least half this group would disagree. Danny

marfla04 marfla04@...> wrote: anyone read or know how possible it

is to have a motor neuron disease

such as PLS and a movement disorder (esp related to basal ganglia)?

i am trying to google but seems i just keep coming up with HD and PD

related to basal ganglia. My rheum and holistic MD both have thought

I may have huntington's disease even without family history, or at

least some variant of HD.

also can someone give very simple explanation difference of upper and

lower motor neurons? and how upper and lower effect, what symptoms

match?

PLS, HSP, either seems plausible but seems too i have something like

movement disorder i.e. tremors, jerking/jumping/shaking, involuntary

movements (chorea).

Can someone have PLS and HSP together?

hope not becoming pest just yet if not give me time LOL

marfla

Danny Dandignac

Bulbar onset, slow progression, still walking & driving:

Mainly Upper Motor Neuron; Spasticity and No Balance

Symptoms 3/97; Dx 12/00; Cane 1/03; BiPAP 9/03 AFO 4/05; 5/05;

" Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from indomitable will. "

Gandhi

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[Guest guest]

thanks Danny

Doc tried getting the gene testing but insurance wouldn't approve as no family

known history.

I agree that most MD's don't know as much as one believes, The brain and nervous

system is something all continue to learn about.

I also agree that the strict definition/criteria for neurological disorders that

many MD's have blinders on. Example: I have the sx's, and signs of MS but

MRI's don't show lesion. Therefore to the neuro's I don't have MS. I'm not

saying that I do but really the only 100 percent way of diagnosing MS is by

autopsy and I prefer not going that route.

I have atypical sx's, signs of everything. I just don't fit that one

definition/criteria known by MD's, textbooks, medical journals etc...

Therefore, I have had a couple neuro's blow me off as depression and just needed

anti depressants.

I feel for all those and there are so many out there, like me don't fit what the

MD's expect to see due to their training, textbooks, journals etc... so we go

years without knowing what is happening, what each day will bring, and often due

to seeing so many MD's are labeled psychogenic disorders. More because since

the MD's can't determine cause, then must be something the patient is doing them

self. of course this is only my opinion, from personal experience.

Maybe this new neuro is the one that will determine and find answers. At least I

can hope for that this time.

best wishes

marfla

Be Blessed

Re: Movement disorder and Motor Neuron?

If you have Huntington's they should be able to tell you definitively by

looking for the mutated gene. The upper motor neurons go from the brain to the

spinal cord and when affected symptoms include spasticity, stiffness and poor

balance. Lower motor neurons run from the cord to the muscles and when they are

affected you will see muscle weakness and atrophy as the primary symptoms. I

doubt you would have HSP & PLS together more likely one or the other as symptoms

from each overlap. As little as most MD's know about various neuromuscular

diseases, it is evident by how rigidly they define certain diseases and tell you

things like bladder and bowel urgency is not a symptom of neuromuscular disease,

but I'm sure at least half this group would disagree. Danny

marfla04 marfla04@...> wrote: anyone read or know how possible

it is to have a motor neuron disease

such as PLS and a movement disorder (esp related to basal ganglia)?

i am trying to google but seems i just keep coming up with HD and PD

related to basal ganglia. My rheum and holistic MD both have thought

I may have huntington's disease even without family history, or at

least some variant of HD.

also can someone give very simple explanation difference of upper and

lower motor neurons? and how upper and lower effect, what symptoms

match?

PLS, HSP, either seems plausible but seems too i have something like

movement disorder i.e. tremors, jerking/jumping/shaking, involuntary

movements (chorea).

Can someone have PLS and HSP together?

hope not becoming pest just yet if not give me time LOL

marfla

Danny Dandignac

Bulbar onset, slow progression, still walking & driving:

Mainly Upper Motor Neuron; Spasticity and No Balance

Symptoms 3/97; Dx 12/00; Cane 1/03; BiPAP 9/03 AFO 4/05; 5/05;

" Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from indomitable

will. " Gandhi

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