Joplin and fiber

[Guest guest]

Taking the new Joplin recommendations for overweight Type 2s: 1,000

to 1,200 for women and 1,200 to 1,600 for men, 40 energy% in

carbohydrates and 50 g fiber per day (if it can be tolerated) with a

daily minimum of 20-35 g fiber, I am convinced that it cannot be

done long-term under non-clinical conditions.

For every day that you are down to 20g fiber, you will have to have

a few more days well above 50g in order to maintain a long-term 50g

average. It is not so much a matter of tolerating it, it is that in

order to get that much fiber, you would be likely to bust the

calorie limit unless you were shovelling bare fiber down in which

case you would not be meeting their nutritional recommendations at

the same time.

The most that I have ever been able to get on a medium-term basis (6-

8 weeks at a time) was a daily average of 35g fiber (all food

weighed accurately to the nearest gram and calculated out). And that

was eating stuff for the very purpose of getting as much fiber as I

could, I couldn't call it balanced nutrition. Forgetting about fiber

and eating my usual way (average 1400kcal/day), I get around average

25g fiber/day.

Has anybody here ever managed anything like the average 50g fiber a

day long-term (say, over a year or more) with average total energy

intake consistently within the Joplin range (i.e. accurately weighed

and calculated)?

T.

[Guest guest]

> Taking the new Joplin recommendations for overweight Type 2s: 1,000

> to 1,200 for women and 1,200 to 1,600 for men, 40 energy% in

> carbohydrates and 50 g fiber per day (if it can be tolerated) with a

> daily minimum of 20-35 g fiber

Do they have any sample menus? If so, has anyone input their sample menus

into a nutritional program to see if they actually meet the recommendations?

The Four Corners Diet, which I helped Jack Goldberg and O'Mara rewrite

(it was the GO-Diet) also had recommendations that I thought might be

impossible to reach. This diet is a low-carb diet (50 g carbs a day) but

with 15 to 30 g of fiber a day. Getting enough fiber on a LC diet is

difficult, because a lot of fiber is in starchy vegetables that you can't

eat, and to reach this goal you need to eat high-fiber crackers or add wheat

bran and flaxseed to your foods, but it turned out it was, in fact, possible

(the sample menus ranged from about 1500 to 2000 calories).

Of course if you eat very few calories, then the amount of fiber would be

proportionately reduced, closer to the 15 than the 30.

BTW, the latest issue of Diabetes Self-Management has a story on the new

Joslin recommendations.

Gretchen

[Guest guest]

Joslin has lowered the carbohydrate suggestion, but not by that much,

and if one were eating as many servings of whole grains in the form of

high fiber cereals, high fiber breads, etc., I'd think it would be

possible to get to 50 grams of fiber a day. Not sure I'd want to be

there, however, as more than one bowl of fiber one or all bran a day

might be more than I'd ever want to eat....LOL Add to the grains that

they still have you eating all the veggies that you can ingest, and I

think you'd get there.

What I don't get is why they are setting the bar so high. Most

Americans don't get anywhere near the 15 grams of fiber that are

generally recommended, so to ask diabetics to get to 50 seems, to me,

to be setting people up for failure.

Stacey

[Guest guest]

I noticed the fibre recommendation too. I couldn't even meet much

lower recommendations on a low carb diet.

Note, beans are a better source of fiber than grains, but although Gil

can tolerate some beans, it has to be limited in amount.

Or else... we go on more drugs or insulin to counter the carbs...

Judy

[Guest guest]

I think that I eat a lot of fiber, but I don't really know how to go

about adding it up. I put a couple of tablespoons of Benefiber in a

protein drink for breakfast, along with one of my high-fiber muffins

for which I posted the recipe recently.

For lunch I usually have a huge salad, probably at least four cups of

raw veggies, with some Swiss cheese, ground flaxseed, and sunflower

kernels. I also have some fruit, usually an orange or apple or

strawberries.

For supper I usually have a meat and two veggies. Often one of the

veggies will be collards, turnip greens, or broccoli.

For a 9:00 pm snack I have a piece of sugar-free chocolate and about

1/4 cup of nuts.

I may be mistaken, but it seems that I would be getting ample amounts

of fiber, yet I have constipation these days. Even with metformin, LOL.

How many grams of fiber is that a day? Can anyone do a quick estimate?

Sue

>

> This diet is a low-carb diet (50 g carbs a day) but

> with 15 to 30 g of fiber a day. Getting enough fiber on a LC diet is

> difficult, because a lot of fiber is in starchy vegetables that you

> can't

> eat, and to reach this goal you need to eat high-fiber crackers or add

> wheat

> bran and flaxseed to your foods, but it turned out it was, in fact,

> possible

> (the sample menus ranged from about 1500 to 2000 calories).

[Guest guest]

Don't forget, when you eat a lot of fiber, you also have to have plenty

of fluids to keep that fiber soft and easy to eliminate. Then there are

always sugar alcohols, if you react to their laxative qualities.

Helen

[Guest guest]

I do drink plenty of liquids. In fact, the last time I went to my

urologist, he looked in my records, and said, " Oh, you're my drinker. "

That was based on the amounts I drank when I had to measure my input

and output for three days and he told me that I peed so often because I

drank so much.

I chew lots of gum with sugar alcohols, plus a piece of sugar-free

candy with sugar alcohols each day.

And still constipation. I suspect that some of my many medications may

be to blame.

Sue

On Tuesday, January 3, 2006, at 08:56 PM, Helen Mueller wrote:

> Don't forget, when you eat a lot of fiber, you also have to have plenty

> of fluids to keep that fiber soft and easy to eliminate. Then there

> are

> always sugar alcohols, if you react to their laxative qualities.

[Guest guest]

Sue, I know what you mean by many medications. I guess I was lucky,

metformin cured a life long case of constipation and the occasional dash

to the bathroom is worth it. Sugar alcohols do not seem to affect me

except for rare bouts of gas. And that is only with some of the ice

creams, which may have as much to do with the dairy content as the

alcohol sugar content.

Helen

[Guest guest]

Besides veg and papaya...green tea always works for me to fight

constipation. almost always, after a cup of warm green tea (excluded

japanesse green tea)....

Judith