Re: Thank you Bill-Tomboy

[Guest guest]

It is just about the most cultish group

> >around. People have been thrown out of the meeting for not dressing

> >appropriately when it was their turn to greet or make coffee. Men

are

> >supposed to wear suits and women skirts if they are playing any

sort

> >of role at the meeting. I have been told that if I attended the

> >meeting especially with my long hair I would be targeted and

> >surrounded by guys just dying to sponsor me.

> >

> >-

I had never been to a " Clancy " meeting. But The Winter Park Group

was just as bad. One afternoon, I wore a pair of " distressed " (fancy

term for ratty jeans with holes in the legs) to a meeting with a tie-

dyed t-shirt and flip-flops. A woman in a Talbots outfit started

yacking about how her appearance had changed for the better since she

got sober and joined AA. She preached how she did not wear tattered

jeans anymore, etc., etc., etc... Of course, she was looking in my

direction as she spoke. Another female stepper felt that she had to

also say how she no longer wore thick eyeliner, got rid 'big hair',

and ditched her rock concert t-shirts after joining AA just so she

could feel as good as Ms. Talbots. That poor woman also tried to

justify why she still lived in a mobile home. Oh, brother! As if

wearing little shirts with Pan collars and cuffed trousers with

pleats by the front pockets suddenly makes a person " high-class " !

There is a snootiness in the " program " towards female steppers who

don't dress to the nines.

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults

[Guest guest]

This " Clancy " bit is something that I completely missed fot the 11

years I was in and out of the cult. I do remember, not long ago a

group of young guys that I would occaisionally see at meetings

show up in suit and tie with short cropped hair. One of these

guys talked about how his sponor had all of his sponsees cut

thier hair short and dress in suits, to rid themselves of that

" druggie look. " I never found out who this sponsor was, nor did I

care to. I was in treatment back in '85 briefly, at the notorious

Eden Programs in Minneapolis it was a deal that I would stay

there for 6 months to get some charges dropped, I stayed two

months, then took off with a woman who was in treatment there.

With the help of a shrink and a lawyer I got the charges dropped

anyway.

At this place they tried to get me to cut my hair off, I refused, they

told me that I was an " intellectual think tank, and unable to have

feelings " that I " used big words to alienate and intimidate

people " and all sorts of other rabid anti-intellectual shit. It's funny

that I totally forgot about being in that place until I started this

post.

Devin

> It is just about the most cultish group

> > >around. People have been thrown out of the meeting for not

dressing

> > >appropriately when it was their turn to greet or make coffee.

Men

> are

> > >supposed to wear suits and women skirts if they are

playing any

> sort

> > >of role at the meeting. I have been told that if I attended the

> > >meeting especially with my long hair I would be targeted

and

> > >surrounded by guys just dying to sponsor me.

> > >

> > >-

>

> I had never been to a " Clancy " meeting. But The Winter Park

Group

> was just as bad. One afternoon, I wore a pair of " distressed "

(fancy

> term for ratty jeans with holes in the legs) to a meeting with a

tie-

> dyed t-shirt and flip-flops. A woman in a Talbots outfit started

> yacking about how her appearance had changed for the better

since she

> got sober and joined AA. She preached how she did not wear

tattered

> jeans anymore, etc., etc., etc... Of course, she was looking in

my

> direction as she spoke. Another female stepper felt that she

had to

> also say how she no longer wore thick eyeliner, got rid 'big

hair',

> and ditched her rock concert t-shirts after joining AA just so she

> could feel as good as Ms. Talbots. That poor woman also tried

to

> justify why she still lived in a mobile home. Oh, brother! As if

> wearing little shirts with Pan collars and cuffed trousers

with

> pleats by the front pockets suddenly makes a person

" high-class " !

> There is a snootiness in the " program " towards female

steppers who

> don't dress to the nines.

>

>

>

> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/aaornatwelvestepcults

[Guest guest]

> This " Clancy " bit is something that I completely missed fot the 11

> years I was in and out of the cult. I do remember, not long ago a

> group of young guys that I would occaisionally see at meetings

> show up in suit and tie with short cropped hair. One of these

> guys talked about how his sponor had all of his sponsees cut

> thier hair short and dress in suits, to rid themselves of that

> " druggie look. " I never found out who this sponsor was, nor did I

> care to. I was in treatment back in '85 briefly, at the notorious

> Eden Programs in Minneapolis it was a deal that I would stay

> there for 6 months to get some charges dropped, I stayed two

> months, then took off with a woman who was in treatment there.

> With the help of a shrink and a lawyer I got the charges dropped

> anyway.

>

> At this place they tried to get me to cut my hair off, I refused,

they

> told me that I was an " intellectual think tank, and unable to have

> feelings " that I " used big words to alienate and intimidate

> people " and all sorts of other rabid anti-intellectual shit. It's

funny

> that I totally forgot about being in that place until I started

this

> post.

>

Hi Devin,

Those Eden Programs in Mpls. were horrid. Knew a few people

that been there years ago. At one time when you entered the

program, had to wear diapers. This one guy was embarrassed to

even talk about it. You gained your right to clothes by

accepting the rules. Don't know anyone who finished that

program, most just split...yea. Sicko's who invent this crap.

netty

[Guest guest]

> Hi Devin,

>

> Those Eden Programs in Mpls. were horrid. Knew a few

people

> that been there years ago. At one time when you entered

the

> program, had to wear diapers. This one guy was

embarrassed to

> even talk about it. You gained your right to clothes by

> accepting the rules. Don't know anyone who finished that

> program, most just split...yea. Sicko's who invent this crap.

>

> netty

Hi Netty,

I remember the diaper thing talked about when I was there. It

was a few years earlier. As I heard it; the police actually stormed

the place and shut it down. The Eden programs reopened with a

more civil procedure. When I was there, there were two

programs, one was more hard core, I was in the " soft-core " one,

but it was still absolutely insane. The people that were running it

didn't have a clue as to what they were doing. It was actually easy

for me to get out of the court-order to be there, I didn't even have

to go back to court. I remember seeing the folks in the hard-core

program, they had to wear signs on their chests saying

humiliating things. Sick and creepy shit.

Devin

[Guest guest]

> Hi Devin,

>

> Those Eden Programs in Mpls. were horrid. Knew a few

people

> that been there years ago. At one time when you entered

the

> program, had to wear diapers. This one guy was

embarrassed to

> even talk about it. You gained your right to clothes by

> accepting the rules. Don't know anyone who finished that

> program, most just split...yea. Sicko's who invent this crap.

>

> netty

I was wondering if anyone on this list has had experience with a

torture-chamber type " treatment program, " I've never talked to

anyone who had been in one of those extreme places (that I

know of.) I find it amazing that our society still has this idea that

being sadistic is what it takes to " help " people. I found out

recently that there is a Teen Challenge program in the city I live

in. Teen Challenge is notorious for being cruel, I think they may

have killed one or two kids, (not the one where I live,) but I still

think someone should investigate, maybe undercover, to find out

what goes on there.

Devin

[Guest guest]

> Oh, it's starting to come back to me...I think Clancy is the

>original

> step-nazi...took AA to new levels of militarization. From So Cal

>right?

> Started the mission in LA. Started the infamous Dog on the Roof

>crew.

Can you enlarge on what these are pls Donna?

P.

[Guest guest]

> I was told I was too intelligent to get the program and that I

used my

> intelligence to put a wall up between myself and people. Not a

problem since

> I quit communicating with morons.

> Jan

>

Hi Jan,

Was it you that wrote about the woman who was an ethics

professor, and then became a stepper? This one got me as to

how could they be compatible. Then, I thought about my own

ideas and how they are completely incompatable with the cult,

and how I tried to twist everything hoping that I could make it fit

somehow.

I heard all that " you think too much " " using intelligenge to

allienate " " you are too smart for your own good. "

Worship of ignorance, comendation of stupidity. Dumb People

are good and they will stay sober, smart people are bad and they

will relapse and die.

It's wonderful to be free of the morons.

Devin

[Guest guest]

> Now that you mention it, my biggest obstacle to sobriety was

my

> intellectualizing and rationalizing everything. Once I was

trained not

> to do either of those, I had a chance of staying sober - of

course they

> weren't very successful at training me.

>

Why do you suppose that is, Cool Guy? Hmmm, there are, of

course, many different ways of looking at this issue. Perhapse

the rationalizing and intellectualizing demonstates an underlying

hostility toward authority. Then, on the other hand, perhapse you

do it just to be unique, but if you look at it another way........

Devin