Re: Is word retrieval problems a form of regression?

[Guest guest]

I'm giving my little guy that dose 3 times a day. When we bumped to twice a

day and saw obvious surges, we wanted to see if we could get even more

benefits with 3 times a day...and we did see more dramatic benefits. (Now at

steady progress on a steady dose, I really miss the surges). Its worth a try

giving another dose before bed, especially if you noticed improvements at

twice a day. We did see some moodiness going to 3 times a day, though. It

lasted about 3 weeks. Hard to tell if it was the supplements or a normal

developmental stage for a 2 year old. (ie if my older daughter had

demonstrated the extent of " moodiness " he did - she would have been having a

good day, but the term " terrible 2 " seemed to have her in mind. Its all

relative. But you'd never know now - at nearly 8 years, she is charming,

patient and kind, but daily meltdowns were part of her very normal existence

at age 2). If ph has a meltdown, I'm shocked, since it is so rare. I

know we're blessed with his disposition.

What you describe sounds like some fog set in for your daughter that

resolved when you restarted the supplements. It sounds mild, but still a

noticeable difference, right? In our case, its not mild - its devastating

loss of speech and coordination. -claudia

[ ] Is word retrieval problems a form of

regression?

Hey all (,, and anyone else that has great knowledge on

the EFA'S)

My daughter Abby has been taking the EFA'S since she was 3. She is

now 5. In Nov I added 1 EPA (so her dose was 2 efa and 1 epa in am)

In March I ran out, and kept wanting to buy more, and kept putting it

off. I suppose part of me wanted to see

if she regressed at all.

Well, I didn't actually see " regression " but rather, word retrieval

problems. She would be mid-stream sentence, and stop to think of the

word. Or sometimes even before she started her sentence. The only

word she really lost artic on was sausage. Thats not to say that

every other word was perfect in artic. It wasn't, or isn't now.

But that was the only word that she " lost " perfect artic on. (hope

that made sense)

Anyway, was wondering if word retrieval fell in the realm

of " regression " .

Ohh, in the mean time, I did buy more EFA/EPA. I reintroduced it in

May. At that same dose as before 2;1.

Myself, and her teachers noticed the word retrieval to disappear.

Last weekend I increased her dosage to twice a day. 2efa and 1 epa in

the am, and then again (same dosage) when she comes home from school

at 3pm. I've noticed even more talking. Things like, her

saying " hurly (hurry) up, CHOP CHOP " All sorts of little sayings,

and better artic in certain words.

I want to increasee again by giving her the same amount at bedtime.

What do you all think of that??

[Guest guest]

Hey Dawn,

I wish I could place a bet on this one and I'm not a betting person

but this one is so obvious!

First of all you saw 'a' regression off the EFAs which resolved when

put back on. When in doubt if any regressions (or surges for that

matter) are from the EFAs. Stop them, observe, wait a bit, observe,

and then start them again and observe.

I'm not so quick to allow others to shove another diagnosis on my

child personally. It may be word retrieval -but it may be a sign

her motor planning has broken down. Probably as well the longer off

the oils the more obvious it's motor planning. Not that I ever wait

that long. My son Tanner stutters for example when he misses his

oils for one day. Yes in a day! Stuttering is a motor planning

disorder as well -and Tanner doesn't stutter in the classic sense -

we call him Mr. Bumpy when it's there. Give him fish oils again and

Mr. Bumpy is gone. With your child is it " word retrieval " or is it

still plain old motor planning? Two different things and my opinion

is it's best not to assume and since it's hard to know for sure -if

you're going to assume anything assume it's motor planning again vs.

a whole new can of worms. (one can to deal with is yucky enough)

OK second (main?) reason is because Dawn you are from NJ -so of

course stopping any aspect of the EFAs has everything to do with the

regression!

=====

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

I agree with that it might be that she's actually having a

regression in motor planning. My daughter does the same thing when

she misses a few days of fish oil. It's like the sentences she

could put together so smoothly before, once she's off the fish oil

she stops and starts, tries again, can't think of the word, puts

words in the wrong order, starts over again, etc. Word retrieval

may be a part of it, but for her it's not the whole issue. We're

don't use the fish oils religiously (the girls so frequently decide

they don't want their yogurt tonight) but whenever Meg misses a few

consecutive days her speech gradually starts to slip.

Kerri

>

> >

> > Hey all (,, and anyone else that has great knowledge

on

> > the EFA'S)

> > My daughter Abby has been taking the EFA'S since she was 3. She

is

> > now 5. In Nov I added 1 EPA (so her dose was 2 efa and 1 epa in

> am)

> > In March I ran out, and kept wanting to buy more, and kept

putting

> it

> > off. I suppose part of me wanted to see

> > if she regressed at all.

> >

> > Well, I didn't actually see " regression " but rather, word

> retrieval

> > problems. She would be mid-stream sentence, and stop to think of

> the

> > word. Or sometimes even before she started her sentence. The

only

> > word she really lost artic on was sausage. Thats not to say that

> > every other word was perfect in artic. It wasn't, or isn't now.

> > But that was the only word that she " lost " perfect artic on.

(hope

> > that made sense)

> >

> > Anyway, was wondering if word retrieval fell in the realm

> > of " regression " .

> > Ohh, in the mean time, I did buy more EFA/EPA. I reintroduced it

> in

> > May. At that same dose as before 2;1.

> > Myself, and her teachers noticed the word retrieval to

disappear.

> > Last weekend I increased her dosage to twice a day. 2efa and 1

epa

> in

> > the am, and then again (same dosage) when she comes home from

> school

> > at 3pm. I've noticed even more talking. Things like, her

> > saying " hurly (hurry) up, CHOP CHOP " All sorts of little

sayings,

> > and better artic in certain words.

> >

> > I want to increasee again by giving her the same amount at

> bedtime.

> > What do you all think of that??

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, and All....

I know my question had an " obivious " answer. However, when I hear the

term regression, I always thought Abby would or could become non-

verbal once again. Like she was at 2 and 3 (Even at the first half of

4years old) How desribed it as " devasting "

However, now I'm remembering you stating, or maybe Dr. Agin

originally stated, " An apraxic child on EFA'S will not present like

before they started the EFA'S " I might not have the quote exact, but

hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

As far as it being word retrieval or regression, whatever you want to

call it... I call it " GONE " (mostly)She is apraxic, will probably

always be.. there is no cure, HOWEVER, w/out the fish oils, I know we

wouldn't have come this far with therapy alone.

And your right , one can is enough..Today I had another can of

worms. I just got done w/ the school IEP meeting. But, thats another

post though.

I will be adding more EFA's/EPA to her daily routine, as soon as I

finish this bottle. Which will be soon. However I am ordering more

NOW. We went through it much faster this time, not just because I

increased Abby's dose, but also I have been giving it to my other

daughter (typical developement)because she was lagging in math and

reading. Well, " was " is the key word. 3rd and 4th marking period

report cards were great!!!

However the opposition could argue that too...

>

> Hey Dawn,

>

> I wish I could place a bet on this one and I'm not a betting person

> but this one is so obvious!

>

> First of all you saw 'a' regression off the EFAs which resolved

when

> put back on. When in doubt if any regressions (or surges for that

> matter) are from the EFAs. Stop them, observe, wait a bit,

observe,

> and then start them again and observe.

>

> I'm not so quick to allow others to shove another diagnosis on my

> child personally. It may be word retrieval -but it may be a sign

> her motor planning has broken down. Probably as well the longer

off

> the oils the more obvious it's motor planning. Not that I ever

wait

> that long. My son Tanner stutters for example when he misses his

> oils for one day. Yes in a day! Stuttering is a motor planning

> disorder as well -and Tanner doesn't stutter in the classic sense -

> we call him Mr. Bumpy when it's there. Give him fish oils again

and

> Mr. Bumpy is gone. With your child is it " word retrieval " or is it

> still plain old motor planning? Two different things and my

opinion

> is it's best not to assume and since it's hard to know for sure -if

> you're going to assume anything assume it's motor planning again

vs.

> a whole new can of worms. (one can to deal with is yucky enough)

>

> OK second (main?) reason is because Dawn you are from NJ -so of

> course stopping any aspect of the EFAs has everything to do with

the

> regression!

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Hi again Dawn!

Regression depends on a number of factors. The child's age,

diagnosis, severity of that/those diagnosis, how long on the fish

oils, how long off the fish oils... for just a few factors.

I too once put Tanner's regression off the oils as devastating -you

can read about that in The LCP Solution book or online here

http://www.drstordy.com/stories.html (under apraxia) Zimet

CCC SLP from this group who is now working for Georgia EI, was

Tanner's EI therapist in NJ at the time and was the one that

witnessed it first hand.

But...Tanner's been on EFAs and in appropriate therapy for years (he's 9 now)

His regression is still noticeable off the oils -but no longer is it

devastating. Clearly he would no longer go back to being completely

nonverbal like before. And...at some point I'm convinced that the

regression won't be apparent to just about anyone at all. In fact

there are members here now who have children that used to regress -

but no longer do. Perhaps the EFAs got them to where they needed to

be -and they are no longer needed for that aspect.

But for my boys it's not an option. Speech and ADHD are not even

close to the main reasons that most take EFAs. You see for

us...heart disease runs heavy in both my side and Glenn's side of

the family -both Glenn and I lost our Dad's when they were in their

50s which is sad. Our boys never got to meet their " Grandpa " on

either side. And even more so for my boys because (wasn't going to

say anything but) my just turned 46 year old athletic, strong and in

great shape husband Glenn just had a sudden unexpected heart attack

a few weeks ago. Thankfully he was on EFAs at the time (clinical

research shows a 70% decrease in fatal heart attacks even in those

who do have a heart attack while on EFAs) Also Glenn, is not only

alive and well (thank God!) but as if that wasn't enough, the

cardiologist actually said that my husband's heart is in very good

shape outside of this one artery. We'll be going for a second

opinion with Glenn and are probably switching his formula of EFAs to

something called ultaEPA or something that Nordic Naturals tells me

is a big one for heart health. I'm going to let the boys try that

with their ProEFA too vs. the regular ProEPA. (starting tomorrow -

let you guys know what I see if anything that's different)

My boys know now more than ever before that no matter what... to be

on and stay on EFAs the rest of their life -and both take fish oils

on their own every day. (they both today at 9 and 11 know how to

swallow capsules)

For me for years and years I now I don't have to prove to anyone

else that the fish oils make a difference in apraxia. ADHD,

learning, memory etc. For at least a few years I don't try to cut

back on EFAs to see if I can stop them either like I used to. For

me it's obvious that they are healthy for us as humans -and not

getting a supply of them, EFAs, daily to me would be just as silly

as seeing how long my children can go without water without showing

signs of dehydration. Yep -that's how much I'm into them.

(and...not to mention that I believe that this group's kids have an

edge on the typical children in the schools today because of the

EFAs we are giving them for other reasons)

=====

[Guest guest]

Hello-

I am curious about word retrieval not related to EPA's. My daughter, 4

1/2, is experiencing problems with word retreival. If the actual

object is visible to her, she can name it after a second or two. If

it's not visible she does a great combination of description/sherades

to get me to figure out what word she is looking for. her therapist

wasn't sure if this was the Apraxia or a word retreival problem.

Any insight would be helpful.

Thanks,

Kim

[Guest guest]

Hi Kim!

Some professionals still must just hate to say " apraxia " (since it

doesn't exist in children right?) and perhaps " word retrieval

problem " is the new buzz or something.

Seeing the actual item is a " visual cue " and cues whether they are

visual ones such as that or bringing two items together to symbolize

two syllables or two words, touch cues (such as what Prompt is) or

auditory cues such as in clapping out the syllables/words are all

strong therapy methods to help with " motor planning problems " .

If it was purely word retrieval seeing or not seeing the item would

not make a difference. Have any of you seen an actor in a movie and

just can't recall the name of that actor? You see the actor, hear

that actor's voice, feel your friend's finger tapping your arm

saying " who is that actor again? " You both know you know his name

and yet you and your friend can't recall it. Now that's probably

not word retrieval either -probably that's memory -but clearly

visual cues don't always help there. Cues always help with motor planning.

To me it's another " obvious " answer -it's clearly a motor planning

problem. I could be wrong -but doubt it on this one.

=====

[Guest guest]

,

I'm so sorry that your husband--your whole family--went through

that. I hope he is doing well now. Your post actually touched on

something I've been wondering about: how long should kids stay on

the fish oils? Or rather, how long should they stay on high doses

of them? Like you, I think it's a great supplement for everyone,

but some have posted about going to a " maintenance dose " at some

point, and I was wondering when that might happen. I've also been

wondering how much I should be taking (and now my husband too; heart

disease runs in his family too). I would like to get pregnant again

and I want to make sure I'm taking ENOUGH fish oils starting BEFORE

I conceive! But of course I'm going to worry about taking too much

while pregnant because the baby is forming and developing. Sigh...

I WILL find something to worry about no matter what! And , if

you are reading this please chime in. I'm not asking for your

opinion as a doctor, but as a really smart mom who's done her

homework (and just so happens to be good at science).

Thanks and your family is in my prayers and thoughts!

Kristi

>

> Hi again Dawn!

>

> Regression depends on a number of factors. The child's age,

> diagnosis, severity of that/those diagnosis, how long on the fish

> oils, how long off the fish oils... for just a few factors.

>

> I too once put Tanner's regression off the oils as devastating -you

> can read about that in The LCP Solution book or online here

> http://www.drstordy.com/stories.html (under apraxia) Zimet

> CCC SLP from this group who is now working for Georgia EI, was

> Tanner's EI therapist in NJ at the time and was the one that

> witnessed it first hand.

>

> But...Tanner's been on EFAs and in appropriate therapy for years

(he's 9 now)

> His regression is still noticeable off the oils -but no longer is

it

> devastating. Clearly he would no longer go back to being

completely

> nonverbal like before. And...at some point I'm convinced that the

> regression won't be apparent to just about anyone at all. In fact

> there are members here now who have children that used to regress -

> but no longer do. Perhaps the EFAs got them to where they needed

to

> be -and they are no longer needed for that aspect.

>

> But for my boys it's not an option. Speech and ADHD are not even

> close to the main reasons that most take EFAs. You see for

> us...heart disease runs heavy in both my side and Glenn's side of

> the family -both Glenn and I lost our Dad's when they were in their

> 50s which is sad. Our boys never got to meet their " Grandpa " on

> either side. And even more so for my boys because (wasn't going to

> say anything but) my just turned 46 year old athletic, strong and

in

> great shape husband Glenn just had a sudden unexpected heart attack

> a few weeks ago. Thankfully he was on EFAs at the time (clinical

> research shows a 70% decrease in fatal heart attacks even in those

> who do have a heart attack while on EFAs) Also Glenn, is not only

> alive and well (thank God!) but as if that wasn't enough, the

> cardiologist actually said that my husband's heart is in very good

> shape outside of this one artery. We'll be going for a second

> opinion with Glenn and are probably switching his formula of EFAs

to

> something called ultaEPA or something that Nordic Naturals tells me

> is a big one for heart health. I'm going to let the boys try that

> with their ProEFA too vs. the regular ProEPA. (starting tomorrow -

> let you guys know what I see if anything that's different)

>

> My boys know now more than ever before that no matter what... to be

> on and stay on EFAs the rest of their life -and both take fish oils

> on their own every day. (they both today at 9 and 11 know how to

> swallow capsules)

>

> For me for years and years I now I don't have to prove to anyone

> else that the fish oils make a difference in apraxia. ADHD,

> learning, memory etc. For at least a few years I don't try to cut

> back on EFAs to see if I can stop them either like I used to. For

> me it's obvious that they are healthy for us as humans -and not

> getting a supply of them, EFAs, daily to me would be just as silly

> as seeing how long my children can go without water without showing

> signs of dehydration. Yep -that's how much I'm into them.

> (and...not to mention that I believe that this group's kids have an

> edge on the typical children in the schools today because of the

> EFAs we are giving them for other reasons)

>

> =====

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Kristi. We are all doing really well here now.

The first day was the worst. I was trying to be strong so that

Glenn didn't see me crying -fortunately I do OK in emergency

situations. I was the one he called when he had trouble breathing -

he had just lifted something really heavy and he didn't tell me he

had any type of pain in his chest. I just heard " trouble breathing "

however and called 911 almost immediately (stayed calm to find out

his exact location first) -he was treated within minutes because of

that. I don't know what people did prior to cell phones that's for

sure. They treated Glenn with medication and a stent -and he

didn't require any surgery. He wanted to come home the next day but

they made him stay in the hospital 4 days. I'm just so happy and

thankful that he is alive. My Dad died suddenly of a heart attack

at 56 years old and I miss him so much still. In some ways what

happened to Glenn is good because we got a warning -our friends and

family did too. Everyone is going for the nuclear stress test now -

especially those that know us since Glenn is in such good shape and

so fit. (or appeared to be) Both Glenn and I will be getting

regular nuclear stress tests that's for sure to see what is going on

inside. I believe they have a 90% accuracy.

Maintenance on EFAs depends. American Medical Association, American

Hospital Association, American Heart Association may all vary a

bit. I've heard 1000 mg as a basic -here's one link from AHA for

example

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3006624

My friend ( Ross MD) is an internist through the Barnabas

system in NJ and puts all her patients on EFAs. She says we are

all " fish deficient "

Both Glenn and I take around 3 to 5 ProEFAs a day. But like I said

I just ordered something called ultraEPA from NN (didn't take it out

of the box yet) that we'll both start tomorrow. I'm going to give

it to the boys with their ProEFA to replace the ProEPA they

regularly take to see if they notice or if we notice a difference.

Life is full of surprises that's for sure. Again however after that

first day it was all good. I know how it could have been first

hand. So does Glenn. I'm walking around happy as ever -feel like I

was given a gift. And I was, so was our family - that's for sure!

Dakota and Tanner don't really understand it yet -and I'm glad they

don't have to, and hope they don't have to for a long, long time.

=====

[Guest guest]

You may not recognize this but it comes from one of the children's books in the

Scientific Learning computer programs..the one about the child who put her

schools on the wrong feet on the first day of school.

Peace,

Kathy E.

>Things like, her

> saying " hurly (hurry) up, CHOP CHOP " All sorts of little sayings,

> and better artic in certain words.

>