Doctors are they Rill pushers??

[Guest guest]

C said:

" as my current doctor is WAY too interested in throwing pills at symptoms to

make me comfortable. "

Boy do I agree with that C. Most of my problems have been with side

effects of the medications I have been given. I have finally told the PCP

and Endo that I only want tried and true older meds that have very few side

effects. While there a some great new medications, my experience has not

been positive with them.

S Wilkinson,

Rome, New York

RE: Re: New Endo Appointment

Mike:

Much of what you say is true. And the truth of it is sad. Personally, I

think doctors SHOULD care about their patients. It SHOULD matter to a

doctor if a patient leaves. I have written to doctors before, in the manner

you suggest. I've yet to have such communication make any impact. I can

tell you that there are a number of times I wish I'd have had the surgeon

save my 115 gram thyroid - there are a number of desks I'd like to plop it

on - " Here is my perfectly normal thyroid, Dr. So-and-so. " I suffered

tremendously for six years before finding an endocrinologist who, in a

matter of FIVE minutes accurately diagnosed the problem and immediately

scheduled surgery. The problem was removed within two weeks. FIVE YEARS I

had to schlep around only to be told to " eat less " , " exercise more " , " take

PhenFen " , " take antidepressants " . I was sick. Very sick, and was getting

absolutely no where because not a single general practitioner was willing to

look beyond the magical TSH test to SEE that I had a big problem, despite

the myriad of other symptoms.

Sadly, so often we have to be our own advocates and the mainstream medical

community resents it greatly.

The endo I just saw was quite miffed at my knowledge when he discovered that

I do NOT work in the field. At his inquiry I said, " No. I don't work in

the medical field, never have. I do, however, own a body and it has been my

experience that it is essential to be knowledgeable about the functions of

this body and to be able to speak in medically and anatomically correct

terminology. It avoids misunderstandings. "

His culminating opinion was that I should see a nutritionist and come back

in six months. Waste of my time. Waste of his. To be fair with regard to

this particular doctor, I think that the fact that I AM self-educated and I

DO know quite a lot about my particular medical situation gave him little to

add. This, in contrast to the two doctors who felt I should take PhenFen -

and repeatedly assured me that it was " totally safe " . I declined the

offers, much to my long-lasting relief! ;oD

The bottom line is that not all doctors are a good fit for all patient. Like

mental health professionals, it sometimes takes sorting through bad fits to

find a good mix. If a patient is not getting what they want or need from

their physician, it is fair to discuss that, but, ultimately, I'd suggest

looking elsewhere. I recently made an appointment with a local doctor who

offers " meet and greet " appointments - I liked her, I think our philosophies

will mesh and will probably switch, as my current doctor is WAY too

interested in throwing pills at symptoms to make me comfortable.

C

===========================================snip============================

[Guest guest]

>

> C said:

> " as my current doctor is WAY too interested in throwing pills at symptoms

> to

> make me comfortable. "

>

> Boy do I agree with that C. Most of my problems have been with side

> effects of the medications I have been given.

Oh, but who is to blame here? WAY TOO MANY patients insist on having a

prescription written when they see the doctor, regardless of what the

doctors opinion is... Take, for instance, the common cold. The over

prescprtion of antibiotics is primarily due to the fact that the patient

expects a cure when they visit the doctor.

And, what about all of the ads that are geared to make the patient ask for a

medicine that made people happy and dancing in a commercial and didn't even

specify what problem the medication was designed to cure??

Sorry, , but you are one of the exceptions. Most people would be

convinced that their doctor was either incapable or uneducated if they

didn't get the latest and greatest drug that is on the market. After all,

look at this list. How many people here have accused other individuals

doctors of being uninformed if they didn't have you on Lantus, Byetta or

other new medications. Several individuals have stated quite emphatically

that you weren't getting the best treatment available if you weren't seeing

an endo and weren't being prescribed the latest diabetic medication....

regardless of what you A1C was.

Yes, it feels good to blame the doctor... but what is the doctor conditioned

to do with most patients?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Doctors are not like auto mechanics. I can find a mechanic that will keep my

car in top notch shape and it is very expensive. I can find a mechanic that

will only replace what is necessary to keep the car running moderate cost.

Then there is the mechanic that charges you for doing nothing the most

expensive. With a Doctor I look for someone that will listen to my

complaints, do his best to cure my ailments, and use his expertise to keep

me healthy. I must decide if I am going to follow his advice or not. That is

the critical point. If I don't follow his advice then it is my fault. If I

do follow his advice and it does not work it is no body's fault. Yet many

patients will blame the doctor. Doctors are only human, they are not God. A

PCP cannot possibly know everything about the humans he is treating. Humans

are very complicated. There was a time when doctors did know more about

medicine than the patient did. Now it is possible for a patient with a

disease to know more about that one disease than the doctor. But the doctor

has to know everything there is to know about his specialty.

They has to be a cooperative atmosphere and understanding between me and my

doctors.

S Wilkinson,

Rome, New York

Re: Doctors are they Rill pushers??

>

> C said:

> " as my current doctor is WAY too interested in throwing pills at

> symptoms to make me comfortable. "

>

> Boy do I agree with that C. Most of my problems have been with

> side effects of the medications I have been given.

Oh, but who is to blame here? WAY TOO MANY patients insist on having a

prescription written when they see the doctor, regardless of what the

doctors opinion is... Take, for instance, the common cold. The over

prescprtion of antibiotics is primarily due to the fact that the patient

expects a cure when they visit the doctor.

And, what about all of the ads that are geared to make the patient ask for a

medicine that made people happy and dancing in a commercial and didn't even

specify what problem the medication was designed to cure??

Sorry, , but you are one of the exceptions. Most people would be

convinced that their doctor was either incapable or uneducated if they

didn't get the latest and greatest drug that is on the market. After all,

look at this list. How many people here have accused other individuals

doctors of being uninformed if they didn't have you on Lantus, Byetta or

other new medications. Several individuals have stated quite emphatically

that you weren't getting the best treatment available if you weren't seeing

an endo and weren't being prescribed the latest diabetic medication....

regardless of what you A1C was.

Yes, it feels good to blame the doctor... but what is the doctor conditioned

to do with most patients?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike:

I do appreciate your bringing balance. This is a two-fold problem, to be

sure. However, I have come to find that doctors rarely desire an educated

patient who is willing to self-advocate. By the way, if I want to get a

good, clear idea of a particular medication, the last person I talk to is a

doctor. I call a pharmacist. That's their job. They are typically FAR

more knowledgeable about medication than a doctor - sad, since it's the

doctor with prescribing authority and it's the doctor that sees the drug

reps.

It is also true that society, in general, is WAY hot on the latest and

greatest - and don't get me wrong - these new drugs are miracles for some.

Nightmares for others. Is there a need for blame, I wonder? Wouldn't it be

better to seek understanding of the situation and then take steps to bring

better doctor/patient relations?

Personally, I think the average person is incredibly ignorant of their own

physiology, isn't interested in becoming educated and WAY too trusting of

the run-of-the-mill physician, who, given that scenario, develops a

God-complex which is equally dangerous.

C

Re: Doctors are they Rill pushers??

On 8/2/06, S Wilkinson

rr.com> wrote:

>

> C said:

> " as my current doctor is WAY too interested in throwing pills at symptoms

> to

> make me comfortable. "

>

> Boy do I agree with that C. Most of my problems have been with side

> effects of the medications I have been given.

Oh, but who is to blame here? WAY TOO MANY patients insist on having a

prescription written when they see the doctor, regardless of what the

doctors opinion is... Take, for instance, the common cold. The over

prescprtion of antibiotics is primarily due to the fact that the patient

expects a cure when they visit the doctor.

And, what about all of the ads that are geared to make the patient ask for a

medicine that made people happy and dancing in a commercial and didn't even

specify what problem the medication was designed to cure??

Sorry, , but you are one of the exceptions. Most people would be

convinced that their doctor was either incapable or uneducated if they

didn't get the latest and greatest drug that is on the market. After all,

look at this list. How many people here have accused other individuals

doctors of being uninformed if they didn't have you on Lantus, Byetta or

other new medications. Several individuals have stated quite emphatically

that you weren't getting the best treatment available if you weren't seeing

an endo and weren't being prescribed the latest diabetic medication....

regardless of what you A1C was.

Yes, it feels good to blame the doctor... but what is the doctor conditioned

to do with most patients?

Mike

[Guest guest]

Mike said: " Oh, but who is to blame here? WAY TOO MANY patients

insist on having a prescription written when they see the

doctor, regardless of what the doctors opinion is... Take, for

instance, the common cold. The over prescription of antibiotics

is primarily due to the fact that the patient expects a cure

when they visit the doctor. "

I guess I'm one of the few too that doesn't ask for a ton of

medicines, especially on the issue of antibiotics b/c of knowing

that antibiotics are not for colds. My mom and grandma (my

grandma moreso) have felt that antibiotics are for colds. I had

to tell my mom when she had a bit of a cold that you don't take

antibiotics for colds since it is not a bacteria.

As for the issue of patients pushing for the newest meds and

such a good majority of them do so b/c of the ads that have been

allowed to run on tv since the FDA gave permission to the

drugmakers in 1997 to run these ads.

I can tell when a dr isn't as up to date as they ought to be

such as when it comes to some tests, but as far as the meds

that's the one thing I don't have to worry much about: pushing

my dr to give the new meds. I can't take a whole lot of meds

any way even for my own medical conditions. And with my mom I

have to watch her carefully. At one time a dr tried to change

all her medicines out on the first try and tried to tell her to

take them all at once. I told her to start them one at a time

so that we could see which medicine caused what side effects.

It's a good thing we did. If she would have started them all at

once we wouldn't have known which medicine was causing what side

effect. As it turned out the medicines in the Diabetic oral

medicine protocol she can't handle. She is now strictly on

insulin.

Many of the drs out there (not all and I know this) are also

influenced by the drug manufacturers. And in a number of cases

the drs that prescribe the meds are also getting kickbacks which

help boost the sales of the drug makers.

This is another reason why most of science such as in the

Medical field is based on the opinion of the authors doing the

studies (a number of which are being controlled by the drug

companies). Sometimes these opinions can be helpful to some

people but not all.

I told mom and some of my friends that if a dr ever forced me to

take medicines for something I don't have that there would be a

ton of trouble.

It is true that a number of drs are pill pushers but not all b/c

as Mike said in a number of cases the patients are also partly

to blame.

Daughter of Type 2 Insulin Dependent Diabetic,

Kristy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

,

You are so right about doctors preferring a patient who doesn't question them

and just accepts what they say as gospel. There are exceptions, of course, but

having a 'discussion' about one's medical concerns takes time that they haven't

planned on giving.

As for drugs, yes, the pharmacist is the better resource. The doctors are

getting their info from the drug reps -- sure, some will do further reading,

but most won't take the time. I don't necessarily fault doctors for that --

they can't be experts in everything, afterall. But they should be willing to

practice a team approach with the patient being an active member of that team.

Clayton claytonsecretarialplus@...> wrote: I

do appreciate your bringing balance. This is a two-fold problem, to be

sure. However, I have come to find that doctors rarely desire an educated

patient who is willing to self-advocate. By the way, if I want to get a

good, clear idea of a particular medication, the last person I talk to is a

doctor. I call a pharmacist. That's their job. They are typically FAR

more knowledgeable about medication than a doctor - sad, since it's the

doctor with prescribing authority and it's the doctor that sees the drug

reps.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I check with a pharmacist because they have MUCH more time in studying drugs

- that's their business - doctors have a comparatively small amount of time

in on that score!

C

RE: Doctors are they Rill pushers??

,

You are so right about doctors preferring a patient who doesn't question

them and just accepts what they say as gospel. There are exceptions, of

course, but having a 'discussion' about one's medical concerns takes time

that they haven't planned on giving.

As for drugs, yes, the pharmacist is the better resource. The doctors are

getting their info from the drug reps -- sure, some will do further reading,

but most won't take the time. I don't necessarily fault doctors for that --

they can't be experts in everything, afterall. But they should be willing to

practice a team approach with the patient being an active member of that

team.

[Guest guest]

>

> ,

>

> You are so right about doctors preferring a patient who doesn't

question them and just accepts what they say as gospel. There are

exceptions, of course, but having a 'discussion' about one's

medical concerns takes time that they haven't planned on giving.

>

> As for drugs, yes, the pharmacist is the better resource. The

doctors are getting their info from the drug reps -- sure, some

will do further reading, but most won't take the time. I don't

necessarily fault doctors for that -- they can't be experts in

everything, afterall. But they should be willing to practice a team

approach with the patient being an active member of that team.

>

>

, your uninformed prejudices are showing.

Most physicians enjoy patients who ask intelligent questions. A

patient who is knowledgeable is a better patient. Sometime

physicians can't take a great deal of time at a single visit. If

you want a prolonged discussion you may have to schedule extra

time.

Very, very few physicians use the drug reps as a major source of

information about drugs. Journal articles, conferences, specialists

and collegues are the major sources of new drug information. Drug

reps are neither knowledgeable nor unbiased.

Most physicians do practice a team approach in conjunction with the

patient, nurses, nutritionists, physical therapists, etc.

Unfortunately, many patients expect the physcian to provide all the

information when often other team members may be better equipted to

discuss specific areas. Too often also patients are not willing to

actively participate. I'd be very rich if I had a dollar for every

time a patient has said, " Can't you just give me a pill for it? "

Ron

[Guest guest]

Ron,

My sincere apologies for my not very well thought out comments. I have had

many disappointing, to say the least, experiences with doctors over the years,

and I sometimes tend to spit fire. I could write a book with some of the

seriously unpleasant (and humiliating) encounters I've had. On the other hand,

I've also been fortunate enough to have worked with some really wonderful

physicians: one in particular who worked very hard to find me the right drug

cocktail to pull me out of a serious depression (he wasn't a psychiatrist, but

a family practitioner, who really knew his pharmacology).

I am reeling now from having to switch doctors because the one I was using

(I'm new to the area, which is why I was with a new physician) failed to give

me a proper annual physical -- my one-time chance to get one with Medicare.

What I got was a pap test and an incomplete cognitive exam (yes, I did schedule

this as an annual physical). I was told that I couldn't bring up any new

concerns in this visit, as Medicare wouldn't cover it, if I did (surely there

was a misunderstanding about the Medicare regulations). The bottom line was

that the office agreed to rebill Medicare for just the pap test, so that I can

go elsewhere for a more thorough examination. I am optimistic that I will have

a better experience with my new doctor.

Clearly, I have a difficult time remaining unemotional on the subject.

p.s. I am not one of those people who ask for a pill -- I've never liked

having to take anything, but some things I don't have choices about. As it

stands now, after only 3 months in the Medicare Rx plan, I used up all my

initial benefits. I have to spend $3200 more out of pocket before my

" catastrophic " coverage goes into effect. I live on $2100 a month, so there

will be no catastrophic coverage in my future for 2006. So that means I give up

my asthma/allergy medicines and my anti-depressants. It will cost me almost

$300 a month to take the 4 remaining meds I need. So, I'm not looking to add

anything -- can't buy it anyway. My income is too high to be eligible for

assistance from the drug companies. Sorry for getting way off the issue.

ron42nm ron42nm@...> wrote:

, your uninformed prejudices are showing.

Most physicians enjoy patients who ask intelligent questions. A

patient who is knowledgeable is a better patient. Sometime

physicians can't take a great deal of time at a single visit. If

you want a prolonged discussion you may have to schedule extra

time.

Very, very few physicians use the drug reps as a major source of

information about drugs. Journal articles, conferences, specialists

and collegues are the major sources of new drug information. Drug

reps are neither knowledgeable nor unbiased.

Most physicians do practice a team approach in conjunction with the

patient, nurses, nutritionists, physical therapists, etc.

Unfortunately, many patients expect the physcian to provide all the

information when often other team members may be better equipted to

discuss specific areas. Too often also patients are not willing to

actively participate. I'd be very rich if I had a dollar for every

time a patient has said, " Can't you just give me a pill for it? "

Ron

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the apology. It really wasn't necessary.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. That doctor is wrong. If

he simply bills the " annual physical " visit with your medical

diagnosis as a level 4 or 5 office visit he will be appropriately

compensated by Medicare. You are right to go elsewhere.

In our group we have a very simple rule - do what needs to be done

for the patient first and worry about the compensation from insurers

later. It seems to work out OK for everyone. We're in a working

class area, so we rarely ask patients for any payments. We accept

that some of what we do goes uncompensated.

Please don't get me started on Bush and his Medicare drug program.

We have to deal with the fallout every day. It's people like you

and many of our patients who are the big losers. It's

reprehensible. For working class people it's actually costing them

more out of pocket than they had to pay before joining the program.

What offends me more than anything is that the bill specifically

forbids Medicare from negotiating volume price discounts from the

drug companies.

Ron

>

> Ron,

>

> My sincere apologies for my not very well thought out comments.

>

> I am reeling now from having to switch doctors because the one I

was using (I'm new to the area, which is why I was with a new

physician) failed to give me a proper annual physical -- my one-

time chance to get one with Medicare. What I got was a pap test and

an incomplete cognitive exam (yes, I did schedule this as an annual

physical). I was told that I couldn't bring up any new concerns in

this visit, as Medicare wouldn't cover it, if I did (surely there

was a misunderstanding about the Medicare regulations). The bottom

line was that the office agreed to rebill Medicare for just the pap

test, so that I can go elsewhere for a more thorough examination. I

am optimistic that I will have a better experience with my new

doctor.

>

> Clearly, I have a difficult time remaining unemotional on the

subject.

>

>

>

> p.s. I am not one of those people who ask for a pill -- I've

never liked having to take anything, but some things I don't have

choices about. As it stands now, after only 3 months in the

Medicare Rx plan, I used up all my initial benefits. I have to

spend $3200 more out of pocket before my " catastrophic " coverage

goes into effect. I live on $2100 a month, so there will be no

catastrophic coverage in my future for 2006. So that means I give

up my asthma/allergy medicines and my anti-depressants. It will

cost me almost $300 a month to take the 4 remaining meds I need.

So, I'm not looking to add anything -- can't buy it anyway. My

income is too high to be eligible for assistance from the drug

companies. Sorry for getting way off the issue.

>

[Guest guest]

Ron,

I cracked up several months ago when a doctor at the community health center

asked if I suffered from stress or anxiety. I said " Only every day of my life. "

Five years ago I landed in the hospital for my asthma. I was a business manager

in an academic department at a university and I had difficulty doing my job for

some months after my hospitalization. I lost my job, insurance, and

retirement. I am now on SSDI, but I had to use all my savings to keep myself

going for a couple of years until I finally had to sell my house and most of my

belongings. I'm glad that I'm finally on Medicare now, but I still worry that I

will lose what little I have left, if I become ill and have to be hospitalized.

I am allowed to earn up to $522 a month, so I have a part time job working for

a veterinarian (the benefits there are discounted/free medical care for my

beloved dogs). I need that small bit of income to get by, so I fear the loss of

it.

I especially fear not being able to afford my astham meds. It costs $220 a

month for Advair. I can get it for $160 in Canada, but if I purchase drugs in

Canada, I don't get credit towards my catastrophic coverage. It's all moot,

though, as I can't pay $160 either.

I know many other people are in much worse positions than I am, and I wonder

how they get through their days. I feel very fortunate to have what I have, but

there's no room for things to go wrong, so, yes, I feel the stress and anxiety

of it daily.

You sound like a very caring physician. Your patients are very fortunate.

ron42nm ron42nm@...> wrote:

Thank you for the apology. It really wasn't necessary.

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. That doctor is wrong. If

he simply bills the " annual physical " visit with your medical

diagnosis as a level 4 or 5 office visit he will be appropriately

compensated by Medicare. You are right to go elsewhere.

In our group we have a very simple rule - do what needs to be done

for the patient first and worry about the compensation from insurers

later. It seems to work out OK for everyone. We're in a working

class area, so we rarely ask patients for any payments. We accept

that some of what we do goes uncompensated.

Please don't get me started on Bush and his Medicare drug program.

We have to deal with the fallout every day. It's people like you

and many of our patients who are the big losers. It's

reprehensible. For working class people it's actually costing them

more out of pocket than they had to pay before joining the program.

What offends me more than anything is that the bill specifically

forbids Medicare from negotiating volume price discounts from the

drug companies.

Ron

>

> Ron,

>

> My sincere apologies for my not very well thought out comments.

>

> I am reeling now from having to switch doctors because the one I

was using (I'm new to the area, which is why I was with a new

physician) failed to give me a proper annual physical -- my one-

time chance to get one with Medicare. What I got was a pap test and

an incomplete cognitive exam (yes, I did schedule this as an annual

physical). I was told that I couldn't bring up any new concerns in

this visit, as Medicare wouldn't cover it, if I did (surely there

was a misunderstanding about the Medicare regulations). The bottom

line was that the office agreed to rebill Medicare for just the pap

test, so that I can go elsewhere for a more thorough examination. I

am optimistic that I will have a better experience with my new

doctor.

>

> Clearly, I have a difficult time remaining unemotional on the

subject.

>

>

>

> p.s. I am not one of those people who ask for a pill -- I've

never liked having to take anything, but some things I don't have

choices about. As it stands now, after only 3 months in the

Medicare Rx plan, I used up all my initial benefits. I have to

spend $3200 more out of pocket before my " catastrophic " coverage

goes into effect. I live on $2100 a month, so there will be no

catastrophic coverage in my future for 2006. So that means I give

up my asthma/allergy medicines and my anti-depressants. It will

cost me almost $300 a month to take the 4 remaining meds I need.

So, I'm not looking to add anything -- can't buy it anyway. My

income is too high to be eligible for assistance from the drug

companies. Sorry for getting way off the issue.

>

__________________________________________________