Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 < > Hi, , I am not any medicine specifically for afib but do take hazaar and metroprolol for high blood pressure. I don't have afib too often (3 or 4 times a year) but taking an extra half (25 mg) of metropolol (okayed by my doctor) does cause me to convert to NSR in 2 to 4 hours. It may be that just by slowing my rate down, that somehow facilitates it but it sure works for me and keeps me from stronger drugs or having to go to the ER, at least for the time being. KathyC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Hi Garrett, I think my Mom is concerned that if she waits longer on the ablation she is going to go into a-fib more and more. She doesn't want to be in Chronic a-fib before she decides to have the ablation done. I think her thinking is that ablations seems to be most successful on people who have paraxysmal (sp?) a-fib, so she'd rather have it done then. If there is a potential way to stop the a-fib altogether, that's what she wants. Are you questioning ablation as a first line of defense because of the risks associated with it? Re: New Member/Questions I hate to add to your worries because, believe me, I know how overwhelming all this can be. I just seems like an ablation should be a last line of defense and more and more EP's are turning to it as the first line. Your mother's symptoms, though undoubtedly scary, sound fairly mild. I'm not sure I would undergo an ablation if I were in her shoes. Then again, I'm not an EP and I'm not in your mother's shoes. Either way, I hope all goes well for her and that you keep us informed on the outcome. We like to here success stories. Garrett > > Hi Everyone, > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > are very happy with him. > > My questions: > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > on her own. > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > this. > > Thanks so much! > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com List owner: AFIBsupport-owner For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Hi Meds should be the first line of defense. I have been diagnosed for 4 years and probably had afib for much longer than that and I am not in persistent afib yet, ablation procedures are evolving all the time so it may be in your mom's best interest to wait and give the meds a try first. I am going to see an ep next month as I have run out of option (tried most of the meds). ine Re: New Member/Questions I hate to add to your worries because, believe me, I know how overwhelming all this can be. I just seems like an ablation should be a last line of defense and more and more EP's are turning to it as the first line. Your mother's symptoms, though undoubtedly scary, sound fairly mild. I'm not sure I would undergo an ablation if I were in her shoes. Then again, I'm not an EP and I'm not in your mother's shoes. Either way, I hope all goes well for her and that you keep us informed on the outcome. We like to here success stories. Garrett > > Hi Everyone, > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > are very happy with him. > > My questions: > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > on her own. > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > this. > > Thanks so much! > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com List owner: AFIBsupport-owner For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 Actually I was going to bring up the exact argument you used to defend early ablations but I got lazy. My understanding is that you are fundamentally correct, the longer you're in a-fib, the harder it is to correct. My concerns about ablation are that it is not without risk and that it is not a cure all. My own experience with ablation has not been great and I question whether I would submit myself to a procedure that is 60% - 70% effective and that carries a small but definite risk if my symptoms where as you described. I see this as a balancing act, moving on to ablation before the a-fib get's so bad that the changes of curing it are diminished but not so quickly that other, less invasive, remedies are not explored. Like I said, though, I'm not an EP and I'm not in your mother's shoes. I expect that the EP has weighed the risks and advantages and made a recommendation that he/she feels is in the best interest of your mother. Maybe I'm just a little gun shy because my own ablation seems to have left me worse off, at least in my opinion, than when I started. I wouldn't worry, though. The risks are small and the chance of success is reasonable. If I were a bett'en man, I'd do the same thing I did before; have the ablation and pray for the chance at a normal life again. Garrett > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > > are very happy with him. > > > > My questions: > > > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > > on her own. > > > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > > this. > > > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > > > > > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be > acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 , Metoprolol helps me to convert. My physician and I came up with a plan to take an extra metprolol tab when I have AF breakthrough. It does help convert me. Of course, this plan was developed by my physicain considering all of my individual factor such as my health and cardiac condition, and this plan would not necessarily be appropriate for everyone. My trigger is alcohol. Even 1or 2 beers can trigger AF, but this is only a recent development. In the past alcohol was no problem. Good luck, jjezell2003 violetiye@...> wrote: Hi Everyone, My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we are very happy with him. My questions: 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting on her own. 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of this. Thanks so much! Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com List owner: AFIBsupport-owner For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 The success rate is more like 85% on the first attempt at most of the large centers. Then almost 100% on a touchup. The technique has improved dramatically as they have done more of them. garrett63376 garrett63376@...> wrote: Actually I was going to bring up the exact argument you used to defend early ablations but I got lazy. My understanding is that you are fundamentally correct, the longer you're in a-fib, the harder it is to correct. My concerns about ablation are that it is not without risk and that it is not a cure all. My own experience with ablation has not been great and I question whether I would submit myself to a procedure that is 60% - 70% effective and that carries a small but definite risk if my symptoms where as you described. I see this as a balancing act, moving on to ablation before the a-fib get's so bad that the changes of curing it are diminished but not so quickly that other, less invasive, remedies are not explored. Like I said, though, I'm not an EP and I'm not in your mother's shoes. I expect that the EP has weighed the risks and advantages and made a recommendation that he/she feels is in the best interest of your mother. Maybe I'm just a little gun shy because my own ablation seems to have left me worse off, at least in my opinion, than when I started. I wouldn't worry, though. The risks are small and the chance of success is reasonable. If I were a bett'en man, I'd do the same thing I did before; have the ablation and pray for the chance at a normal life again. Garrett > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > > are very happy with him. > > > > My questions: > > > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > > on her own. > > > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > > this. > > > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > > > > > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be > acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 , to add a little to my previous response to your question metoprolol is recognized for it's ability to slow the heart rate, and it is not considered and antiarrhytmic. That being said, in conjunction with my antiarrhytmic (flecainide, Sotolol, and Tikosyn at various times) it has helped my breakthrough AF to convert on many occassions. In my response previously, I mentioned how, with my doctors consent, I take an extra tablet of metoprolol and it works like a charm. Beyond this use metoprolol plays and essential supportive role to my antiarrythmic. After my first AF diagnosis many years ago I was placed on flecainide, which worked to keep AF at bay for a few years. When flecainide stopped working as well metoprolol was added and I was able to remain pretty well afib free for many more years. I tried my best, working with my doc, to get off of AF. This effort entailed eating a healthy diet, regular exercise, and acupuncture but everytime I started to cut back on my metaprolol dose the AF would come back. Metaprolol is a beta blocker, which means that it blocks " beta " receptors which are part of the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS). The SNS is in part driven by adrenalin which is why it is also called the adrenergic system. In this system there are various receptors and the main adrenergic receptors are called " alpha " and " beta " receptors. Stimulation of the alpha receptors with adrenalin and other transmitters cause a variety of effects in the body, one of them is vasoconstriction. Beta receptors when stimulated cause the heart to beat faster and harder and make the heart more irritable. Given all of these effects it is easy to understand that beta blockers can play a role in heart activity. So even though beta blockers such as metoprolol are not considered antiarrythmics, they can help to convert AF to NSR. At least that is my personal experience. Kathy kathycantrell@...> wrote: < > Hi, , I am not any medicine specifically for afib but do take hazaar and metroprolol for high blood pressure. I don't have afib too often (3 or 4 times a year) but taking an extra half (25 mg) of metropolol (okayed by my doctor) does cause me to convert to NSR in 2 to 4 hours. It may be that just by slowing my rate down, that somehow facilitates it but it sure works for me and keeps me from stronger drugs or having to go to the ER, at least for the time being. KathyC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 21, 2006 Report Share Posted May 21, 2006 , Your mom has just been diagnosed and at this point the first goal is to get her rhythm and rate stabilized. Before going for a procedure I would suggest you do research to see which procedure is most efficacious and second to research physicians to evaluate their experience and results. It makes a big difference who does the procedure! It may be that you have already done this, but if not do take the time needed to do so because indeed there is no rush, even though it may feel otherwise. Best wishes, and please keep us posted, violetiye@... wrote: Hi Garrett, I think my Mom is concerned that if she waits longer on the ablation she is going to go into a-fib more and more. She doesn't want to be in Chronic a-fib before she decides to have the ablation done. I think her thinking is that ablations seems to be most successful on people who have paraxysmal (sp?) a-fib, so she'd rather have it done then. If there is a potential way to stop the a-fib altogether, that's what she wants. Are you questioning ablation as a first line of defense because of the risks associated with it? Re: New Member/Questions I hate to add to your worries because, believe me, I know how overwhelming all this can be. I just seems like an ablation should be a last line of defense and more and more EP's are turning to it as the first line. Your mother's symptoms, though undoubtedly scary, sound fairly mild. I'm not sure I would undergo an ablation if I were in her shoes. Then again, I'm not an EP and I'm not in your mother's shoes. Either way, I hope all goes well for her and that you keep us informed on the outcome. We like to here success stories. Garrett > > Hi Everyone, > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > are very happy with him. > > My questions: > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > on her own. > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > this. > > Thanks so much! > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com List owner: AFIBsupport-owner For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be acted upon without consultation with one's physician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Thanks Kathy, that makes perfect sense to me. After my Mom's last episode they upped her Metroprolol, which makes sense if it had a roll in helping her reconvert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 Depends on how you define success, I suppose. The literature I've read defines success as a-fib free and drug free and reports numbers more like 60% - 70%. The 85% number is usually associated with people who are a-fib free but not necessarily without drugs. In any event, I've had two ablations since march and am on hands full of pills and I'm definitely not anything free at the moment. Garrett > > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > > > My name is . My Mother is 54 and was recently diagnosed with A- > > > fib. She has had it 3 times that we know of, all were about 2-4 > > > weeks apart. The first one followed a nasty stomach bug that caused > > > her to be hospitalized. After the second one, she was put on > > > Tikosyn, Toprol, and Coumadin. She had another episode 2 days ago. > > > Her heart rate tends to be in the 130's while she has her episodes. > > > During all three episodes she has converted to NSR within 4 hours, > > > and always within 30 minutes to 1 and 1/2 hours of taking 50mg of > > > Metroprolol. She is scheduled for an ablation with Dr. Mark Harvey > > > at the Oklahoma Heart Hospital on May 31st. He is a great EP and we > > > are very happy with him. > > > > > > My questions: > > > > > > 1). Do people typically convert to NSR with Metroprolol? I'm > > > wondering if it's the medicine converting her, or if she's converting > > > on her own. > > > > > > 2). What are your triggers for a-fib? We're trying to figure out > > > what hers might be. We definitely think stress might be one. The > > > day before the episode 2 days ago she had a very stressful event. > > > The second episode was preceeded by alot of work stress, and the > > > first one by the stomach bug. I've tried to search the net for > > > typical triggers, but it all seems to talk about heart failure and > > > sick sinus syndrome, none of which she has. > > > > > > 3). Any other advice is greatly appreciated! These episodes are > > > very scary for my Mom and I and we are pretty overwhelmed by all of > > > this. > > > > > > Thanks so much! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Web Page - http://www.afibsupport.com > > List owner: AFIBsupport-owner > > For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email, > > send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help > > > > Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or > should be > > acted upon without consultation with one's physician. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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