Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there is a question/answer about use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly refers the reader to the Transportation Code. Now, having struggled through the Transportation Code several times in my career, and finding it about as easy to understand as String Theory, I thought that I would take ONE part of it, the part about sirens, whistles, and bells, and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask some questions to the EMS brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear and transparent portion of the law. Please read it and then answer the questions at the end. Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle, or bell: (1) of a type approved by the department; and (2) that emits a sound audible under normal conditions at a distance of at least 500 feet. ( The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall use the siren, whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other vehicle operators or pedestrians of the approach of the emergency vehicle. © Except as provided by this section, an authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with signal lamps that: (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable; (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, two located on the front at the same level and two located on the rear at the same level; and (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet in normal sunlight. (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with the requirements of Subsection ©. (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped with a signal lamp that is temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes a red light visible at a distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with Subsection ©. Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. OK, first question: What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department for use? Would this be a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. What sort of bell could be heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say " in traffic, but it does say " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that mean? Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, would you be warranted in relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? Would they associate your bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm. Second question: What sort of " whistles " are approved by the Department? If your partner can whistle through his teeth loudly, and by actual scientific trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out the window like a Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your approach? Are other motorists expected to yield to his whistling? Third question: Are there any ambulances out there that do not have two red lights spaced as high and as far apart as practical on the front and rear? I have seen some ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are they in violation of the statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on one side and a blue light on the other? Are you running illegally? Fourth question: Some law enforcement types have of late been spreading the rumor that in Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on police vehicles. Um, where is that written? Are these cops suffering from Geographical Misplacement Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in Massachusetts or Georgia? Fifth question: Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters who respond to EMS calls in their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to display warning lights and sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer EMS personnel. If you're a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from having warning lights? Sixth question: Why has the law not been updated to recognize the improvements in warning lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why doesn't the law require any sort of warning light that can be seen from the sides of the vehicle? Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you see. Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for emergency vehicles are so archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? The rules are obviously not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types could interfere with lots of us if they wanted to, but for the most part they have the good sense not to do it. But what if one has an accident while responding and one's vehicle is either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as in volunteer non-FD EMS personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance that doesn't happen to have two red lights facing forward and two facing aft, located as high and as far apart as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck doesn't have school bus type warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your vehicle is involved in a MVC while you're running L & S? Inquiring minds want to know. Gene G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 Excellent questions Gene...and you are right...this language is older than most of us put together... There have been some amazing changes recently in ambulance lighting, striping and interior accutrements to keep us all safer...matter of fact SHAMELESS PLUG COMING I will be talking about a lot of this in two weeks at conference...including showing the ambulance crash test videos done by NHTSA...very scary and very frightening... The state requires very little of ambulances...but you are right...the only times I have seen it enforced is on the civil side post catastrophic (or not so catastrophic) accidents. Dudley Vehicle warning lights In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there is a question/answer about use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly refers the reader to the Transportation Code. Now, having struggled through the Transportation Code several times in my career, and finding it about as easy to understand as String Theory, I thought that I would take ONE part of it, the part about sirens, whistles, and bells, and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask some questions to the EMS brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear and transparent portion of the law. Please read it and then answer the questions at the end. Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle, or bell: (1) of a type approved by the department; and (2) that emits a sound audible under normal conditions at a distance of at least 500 feet. ( The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall use the siren, whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other vehicle operators or pedestrians of the approach of the emergency vehicle. © Except as provided by this section, an authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with signal lamps that: (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable; (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, two located on the front at the same level and two located on the rear at the same level; and (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet in normal sunlight. (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with the requirements of Subsection ©. (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped with a signal lamp that is temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes a red light visible at a distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with Subsection ©. Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. OK, first question: What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department for use? Would this be a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. What sort of bell could be heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say " in traffic, but it does say " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that mean? Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, would you be warranted in relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? Would they associate your bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm. Second question: What sort of " whistles " are approved by the Department? If your partner can whistle through his teeth loudly, and by actual scientific trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out the window like a Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your approach? Are other motorists expected to yield to his whistling? Third question: Are there any ambulances out there that do not have two red lights spaced as high and as far apart as practical on the front and rear? I have seen some ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are they in violation of the statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on one side and a blue light on the other? Are you running illegally? Fourth question: Some law enforcement types have of late been spreading the rumor that in Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on police vehicles. Um, where is that written? Are these cops suffering from Geographical Misplacement Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in Massachusetts or Georgia? Fifth question: Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters who respond to EMS calls in their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to display warning lights and sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer EMS personnel. If you're a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from having warning lights? Sixth question: Why has the law not been updated to recognize the improvements in warning lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why doesn't the law require any sort of warning light that can be seen from the sides of the vehicle? Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you see. Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for emergency vehicles are so archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? The rules are obviously not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types could interfere with lots of us if they wanted to, but for the most part they have the good sense not to do it. But what if one has an accident while responding and one's vehicle is either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as in volunteer non-FD EMS personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance that doesn't happen to have two red lights facing forward and two facing aft, located as high and as far apart as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck doesn't have school bus type warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your vehicle is involved in a MVC while you're running L & S? Inquiring minds want to know. Gene G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > > What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department for use? Would this be > a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. What sort of bell could be > heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say " in traffic, but it does say > " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that mean? Gene - I believe the " bells " being referred to are the ones typically seen mounted on the bumpers of more historical fire trucks, the ones about 12-16 inches in diameter. Most are operated by a srping-loaded striker attached to a pull cord and are rather loud. I don't know that there's any more specific definition than that, and I don't know of anyone that uses only a bell for responding anymore. Think of it as sounding like the bell on a railroad gate arm signal. > Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, would you be warranted in > relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? Would they associate your > bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm. While it would meet the letter of the law with regards to signaling devices, it probably wouldn't meet the " due regard " clause for operation because most " ambulance drivers " know now that vehicles can't hear their sirens, much less a bell. As a side note, the most effective air horn I've ever heard (other than a train horn) was a dual-note alternating " taco truck " air horn (the one that sounds like a donkey braying). People had no idea what it was, so they got out of the way MUCH faster. It used to be on Cy-Fair ambulance 6, no idea if it's since been replaced. > Second question: What sort of " whistles " are approved by the Department? > If your partner can whistle through his teeth loudly, and by actual scientific > trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out the window like a > Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your approach? Are other motorists > expected to yield to his whistling? This actually refers to the old exhaust whistles. There's lots of info on Google, etc. about them. > Are there any ambulances out there that do not have two red lights spaced as > high and as far apart as practical on the front and rear? I have seen some > ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are they in violation of the > statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on one side and a blue light > on the other? Are you running illegally? Technically, if you're not displaying red at the highest and widest point on the front and rear of an ambulance, you're in violation. Technically. I don't know what, if any, case law there is on this that may have modified the actual written law, though. I've never had reason to check it. This is an area where the law has not kept up with science and standard - specifically the NFPA standards on emergency vehicle lighting and the numerous police studies on the use of amber vs. red/blue (Illinois, Florida Highway Patrol, NY State, etc). This probably needs to be addressed by the legislature, but I'm not sure it falls under GETAC's purview - I really don't know. Maybe TAA could bring this up to GETAC, DSHS and/or the legislature directly? Personally, I'd be in favor of replacing it with " emergency vehicles must use lighting equipment designed to warn the public of hazards in compliance with NFPA blah blah blah, " but that's just me. > Some law enforcement types have of late been spreading the rumor that in > Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on police vehicles. Um, where is > that written? Are these cops suffering from Geographical Misplacement > Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in Massachusetts or Georgia? Yes. I had this discussion with a trooper who was working off duty in a retail area/parking lot one day. When I moved to Austin from Houston, I'd still had my overheads on my personal truck. Of course they weren't in use (and the truck was sold shortly after moving to Austin), but the trooper attempted to tell me the same thing. Luckily I was working as a deputy constable at the time, and was in my precinct (off duty, but in its physical geography), so I disagreed with the trooper over his understanding of the Transportation Code and asked him to get his copy out and show me where it said that. He declined, but kept disagreeing, probably just being a well-trained trooper (tongue in cheek, I have respect for Troopers, but don't understand the aggressiveness they put into them just for the sheer piss and vinegar of it). Anyway, I offered him a resolution: write me a citation for it, then my JP in my Precinct can tell him he's wrong, and he can argue with her, instead. He declined and we parted ways. Bottom line? There is no law on the books regarding the use of blue lights on emergency vehicles, or limiting them specifically to police use. BTW, my blues were in the " center " of my lights, with red to the outside on both sides of my vehicle. > Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters who respond to EMS calls in > their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to display warning lights and > sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer EMS personnel. If you're > a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from having warning lights? My understanding on case law (but I have no cite) is that EMS responders " are " volunteer firefighters. Another area where the Transportation Code has not kept up with the times. > Why has the law not been updated to recognize the improvements in warning > lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why doesn't the law require any sort > of warning light that can be seen from the sides of the vehicle? Because there's no money in it for them? Maybe I should be quiet before TxDOT requires every responder vehicle to be registered and pay a levy (including volunteer responders), much like wreckers... > If your ambulance or fire truck doesn't have school bus type > warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your vehicle is involved in a MVC > while you're running L & S? The accident will bring on the suit, the lighting issue will just be a bullet point you'll have to defend against. be sure you can show compliance with actual, up-to-date standards (KKK, NFPA, etc.), and let your lawyer do the arguing... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 What do you mean by non-FD EMS? Sal Capuchino EMT-P --- wegandy1938@... wrote: > In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there > is a question/answer about > use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly > refers the reader to the > Transportation Code. > > Now, having struggled through the Transportation > Code several times in my > career, and finding it about as easy to understand > as String Theory, I thought > that I would take ONE part of it, the part about > sirens, whistles, and bells, > and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask > some questions to the EMS > brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear > and transparent portion of the > law. > > Please read it and then answer the questions at the > end. > > Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR > AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY > VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may > be equipped with a siren, > exhaust whistle, or bell: > (1) of a type approved by the department; and > (2) that emits a sound audible under normal > conditions at a distance of at > least 500 feet. > ( The operator of an authorized emergency > vehicle shall use the siren, > whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other > vehicle operators or pedestrians > of the approach of the emergency vehicle. > © Except as provided by this section, an > authorized emergency vehicle > shall be equipped with signal lamps that: > (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced > laterally as practicable; > (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, > two located on the front > at the same level and two located on the rear at the > same level; and > (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet > in normal sunlight. > (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > firefighter responding to a > fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not > required to, be equipped with > signal lamps that comply with the requirements of > Subsection ©. > (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > firefighter responding to a > fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped > with a signal lamp that is > temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes > a red light visible at a > distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. > (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, > be equipped with signal > lamps that comply with Subsection ©. > Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, > 1995. > > OK, first question: > > What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department > for use? Would this be > a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. > What sort of bell could be > heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say > " in traffic, but it does say > " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that > mean? > > Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, > would you be warranted in > relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? > Would they associate your > bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make > you go Hmmmmmmm. > > Second question: What sort of " whistles " are > approved by the Department? > If your partner can whistle through his teeth > loudly, and by actual scientific > trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out > the window like a > Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your > approach? Are other motorists > expected to yield to his whistling? > > Third question: > > Are there any ambulances out there that do not have > two red lights spaced as > high and as far apart as practical on the front and > rear? I have seen some > ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are > they in violation of the > statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on > one side and a blue light > on the other? Are you running illegally? > > Fourth question: > > Some law enforcement types have of late been > spreading the rumor that in > Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on > police vehicles. Um, where is > that written? Are these cops suffering from > Geographical Misplacement > Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in > Massachusetts or Georgia? > > Fifth question: > > Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters > who respond to EMS calls in > their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to > display warning lights and > sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer > EMS personnel. If you're > a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from > having warning lights? > > Sixth question: > > Why has the law not been updated to recognize the > improvements in warning > lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why > doesn't the law require any sort > of warning light that can be seen from the sides of > the vehicle? > > Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you > see. > > Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for > emergency vehicles are so > archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? > The rules are obviously > not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types > could interfere with lots of us > if they wanted to, but for the most part they have > the good sense not to do > it. But what if one has an accident while > responding and one's vehicle is > either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as > in volunteer non-FD EMS > personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance > that doesn't happen to have two > red lights facing forward and two facing aft, > located as high and as far apart > as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck > doesn't have school bus type > warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your > vehicle is involved in a MVC > while you're running L & S? > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > Gene G. > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 > > What do you mean by non-FD EMS? > Sal Capuchino > EMT-P Seriously? EMS folks that aren't part of a fire department. What part of that was confusing? Mike :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I am referring to an EMS responder with an EMS service that is not run by a fire department. For example, a volunteer EMS group, or a medic with a private service contracted to provide 911 response. Gene > > What do you mean by non-FD EMS? > Sal Capuchino > EMT-P > > --- wegandy1938@wegandy wrote: > > > In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there > > is a question/answer about > > use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly > > refers the reader to the > > Transportation Code. > > > > Now, having struggled through the Transportation > > Code several times in my > > career, and finding it about as easy to understand > > as String Theory, I thought > > that I would take ONE part of it, the part about > > sirens, whistles, and bells, > > and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask > > some questions to the EMS > > brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear > > and transparent portion of the > > law. > > > > Please read it and then answer the questions at the > > end. > > > > Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR > > AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY > > VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may > > be equipped with a siren, > > exhaust whistle, or bell: > > (1) of a type approved by the department; and > > (2) that emits a sound audible under normal > > conditions at a distance of at > > least 500 feet. > > ( The operator of an authorized emergency > > vehicle shall use the siren, > > whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other > > vehicle operators or pedestrians > > of the approach of the emergency vehicle. > > © Except as provided by this section, an > > authorized emergency vehicle > > shall be equipped with signal lamps that: > > (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced > > laterally as practicable; > > (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, > > two located on the front > > at the same level and two located on the rear at the > > same level; and > > (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet > > in normal sunlight. > > (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > firefighter responding to a > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not > > required to, be equipped with > > signal lamps that comply with the requirements of > > Subsection ©. > > (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > firefighter responding to a > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped > > with a signal lamp that is > > temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes > > a red light visible at a > > distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. > > (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, > > be equipped with signal > > lamps that comply with Subsection ©. > > Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, > > 1995. > > > > OK, first question: > > > > What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department > > for use? Would this be > > a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. > > What sort of bell could be > > heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say > > " in traffic, but it does say > > " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that > > mean? > > > > Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, > > would you be warranted in > > relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? > > Would they associate your > > bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make > > you go Hmmmmmmm. > > > > Second question: What sort of " whistles " are > > approved by the Department? > > If your partner can whistle through his teeth > > loudly, and by actual scientific > > trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out > > the window like a > > Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your > > approach? Are other motorists > > expected to yield to his whistling? > > > > Third question: > > > > Are there any ambulances out there that do not have > > two red lights spaced as > > high and as far apart as practical on the front and > > rear? I have seen some > > ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are > > they in violation of the > > statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on > > one side and a blue light > > on the other? Are you running illegally? > > > > Fourth question: > > > > Some law enforcement types have of late been > > spreading the rumor that in > > Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on > > police vehicles. Um, where is > > that written? Are these cops suffering from > > Geographical Misplacement > > Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in > > Massachusetts or Georgia? > > > > Fifth question: > > > > Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters > > who respond to EMS calls in > > their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to > > display warning lights and > > sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer > > EMS personnel. If you're > > a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from > > having warning lights? > > > > Sixth question: > > > > Why has the law not been updated to recognize the > > improvements in warning > > lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why > > doesn't the law require any sort > > of warning light that can be seen from the sides of > > the vehicle? > > > > Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you > > see. > > > > Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for > > emergency vehicles are so > > archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? > > The rules are obviously > > not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types > > could interfere with lots of us > > if they wanted to, but for the most part they have > > the good sense not to do > > it. But what if one has an accident while > > responding and one's vehicle is > > either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as > > in volunteer non-FD EMS > > personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance > > that doesn't happen to have two > > red lights facing forward and two facing aft, > > located as high and as far apart > > as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck > > doesn't have school bus type > > warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your > > vehicle is involved in a MVC > > while you're running L & S? > > > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > > > Gene G. > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Gene and other Knowledge seekers; In having done extensive research on this topic. Having been in all three areas of public service i.e. Law Enforcement, Fire Department, EMS. There are two places to look in the Transportation Code to get some type of clarification. One being the statute on what constitutes an Emergency Vehicle and the other being the statute on what emergency equipment must be used. There are specifics on what may and shall be used for Fire Department personnel and for Law Enforcement personnel. It is a little more vague on EMS personnel. In reading the statute on use of emergency lights, and after speaking with other Law Enforcement officers around my area it would appear that both paid and volunteer EMS personnel are covered in the statutes. Gene you put in on #3e a volunteer fire fighter responding to an emergency or medical emergency. You will also find EMS personnel listed when you look under what is an emergency vehicle. Pay careful attention to what must or shall be done if lights and sirens are used. I like this topic because it is usually a hot piece when volunteer EMS services are told by their local law enforcement agencies they will be given a citation if they run lights and/or sirens. I would actually like for this to have gone to court somewhere in Texas so that a better clarification would be made by a magistrate. wegandy1938@... wrote: In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there is a question/answer about use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly refers the reader to the Transportation Code. Now, having struggled through the Transportation Code several times in my career, and finding it about as easy to understand as String Theory, I thought that I would take ONE part of it, the part about sirens, whistles, and bells, and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask some questions to the EMS brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear and transparent portion of the law. Please read it and then answer the questions at the end. Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle, or bell: (1) of a type approved by the department; and (2) that emits a sound audible under normal conditions at a distance of at least 500 feet. ( The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall use the siren, whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other vehicle operators or pedestrians of the approach of the emergency vehicle. © Except as provided by this section, an authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with signal lamps that: (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable; (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, two located on the front at the same level and two located on the rear at the same level; and (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet in normal sunlight. (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with the requirements of Subsection ©. (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped with a signal lamp that is temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes a red light visible at a distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with Subsection ©. Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. OK, first question: What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department for use? Would this be a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. What sort of bell could be heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say " in traffic, but it does say " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that mean? Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, would you be warranted in relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? Would they associate your bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm. Second question: What sort of " whistles " are approved by the Department? If your partner can whistle through his teeth loudly, and by actual scientific trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out the window like a Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your approach? Are other motorists expected to yield to his whistling? Third question: Are there any ambulances out there that do not have two red lights spaced as high and as far apart as practical on the front and rear? I have seen some ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are they in violation of the statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on one side and a blue light on the other? Are you running illegally? Fourth question: Some law enforcement types have of late been spreading the rumor that in Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on police vehicles. Um, where is that written? Are these cops suffering from Geographical Misplacement Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in Massachusetts or Georgia? Fifth question: Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters who respond to EMS calls in their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to display warning lights and sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer EMS personnel. If you're a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from having warning lights? Sixth question: Why has the law not been updated to recognize the improvements in warning lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why doesn't the law require any sort of warning light that can be seen from the sides of the vehicle? Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you see. Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for emergency vehicles are so archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? The rules are obviously not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types could interfere with lots of us if they wanted to, but for the most part they have the good sense not to do it. But what if one has an accident while responding and one's vehicle is either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as in volunteer non-FD EMS personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance that doesn't happen to have two red lights facing forward and two facing aft, located as high and as far apart as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck doesn't have school bus type warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your vehicle is involved in a MVC while you're running L & S? Inquiring minds want to know. Gene G. Recent Activity 8 New Members Visit Your Group Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Well I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly. I used to work for a private company that had a county contract. It has 2 full-time trucks. Once those 2 went out, the other one was volunteer. They had red/blue lights on their POVs with clearance from DPS. THey said blus is also for EMS. Salvador Capuchino Jr EMT-P --- Mike wrote: > On 11/9/06, salvador capuchino > wrote: > > > > What do you mean by non-FD EMS? > > Sal Capuchino > > EMT-P > > Seriously? EMS folks that aren't part of a fire > department. What > part of that was confusing? > > Mike :/ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 Compare safety in Ambulances to the safety in the CARGOBODY. Another shameless plug. THEDUDMAN@... wrote: Excellent questions Gene...and you are right...this language is older than most of us put together... There have been some amazing changes recently in ambulance lighting, striping and interior accutrements to keep us all safer...matter of fact SHAMELESS PLUG COMING I will be talking about a lot of this in two weeks at conference...including showing the ambulance crash test videos done by NHTSA...very scary and very frightening... The state requires very little of ambulances...but you are right...the only times I have seen it enforced is on the civil side post catastrophic (or not so catastrophic) accidents. Dudley Vehicle warning lights In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there is a question/answer about use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly refers the reader to the Transportation Code. Now, having struggled through the Transportation Code several times in my career, and finding it about as easy to understand as String Theory, I thought that I would take ONE part of it, the part about sirens, whistles, and bells, and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask some questions to the EMS brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear and transparent portion of the law. Please read it and then answer the questions at the end. Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle, or bell: (1) of a type approved by the department; and (2) that emits a sound audible under normal conditions at a distance of at least 500 feet. ( The operator of an authorized emergency vehicle shall use the siren, whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other vehicle operators or pedestrians of the approach of the emergency vehicle. © Except as provided by this section, an authorized emergency vehicle shall be equipped with signal lamps that: (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable; (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, two located on the front at the same level and two located on the rear at the same level; and (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet in normal sunlight. (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with the requirements of Subsection ©. (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer firefighter responding to a fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped with a signal lamp that is temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes a red light visible at a distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, be equipped with signal lamps that comply with Subsection ©. Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. OK, first question: What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department for use? Would this be a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. What sort of bell could be heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say " in traffic, but it does say " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that mean? Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, would you be warranted in relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? Would they associate your bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm. Second question: What sort of " whistles " are approved by the Department? If your partner can whistle through his teeth loudly, and by actual scientific trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out the window like a Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your approach? Are other motorists expected to yield to his whistling? Third question: Are there any ambulances out there that do not have two red lights spaced as high and as far apart as practical on the front and rear? I have seen some ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are they in violation of the statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on one side and a blue light on the other? Are you running illegally? Fourth question: Some law enforcement types have of late been spreading the rumor that in Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on police vehicles. Um, where is that written? Are these cops suffering from Geographical Misplacement Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in Massachusetts or Georgia? Fifth question: Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters who respond to EMS calls in their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to display warning lights and sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer EMS personnel. If you're a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from having warning lights? Sixth question: Why has the law not been updated to recognize the improvements in warning lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why doesn't the law require any sort of warning light that can be seen from the sides of the vehicle? Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you see. Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for emergency vehicles are so archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? The rules are obviously not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types could interfere with lots of us if they wanted to, but for the most part they have the good sense not to do it. But what if one has an accident while responding and one's vehicle is either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as in volunteer non-FD EMS personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance that doesn't happen to have two red lights facing forward and two facing aft, located as high and as far apart as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck doesn't have school bus type warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your vehicle is involved in a MVC while you're running L & S? Inquiring minds want to know. Gene G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Hey Gene look up " Peoples Ambulance " in Newton County Tx vol. EMS been there for a few years now. > > > > > In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there > > > is a question/answer about > > > use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly > > > refers the reader to the > > > Transportation Code. > > > > > > Now, having struggled through the Transportation > > > Code several times in my > > > career, and finding it about as easy to understand > > > as String Theory, I thought > > > that I would take ONE part of it, the part about > > > sirens, whistles, and bells, > > > and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask > > > some questions to the EMS > > > brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear > > > and transparent portion of the > > > law. > > > > > > Please read it and then answer the questions at the > > > end. > > > > > > Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR > > > AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY > > > VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may > > > be equipped with a siren, > > > exhaust whistle, or bell: > > > (1) of a type approved by the department; and > > > (2) that emits a sound audible under normal > > > conditions at a distance of at > > > least 500 feet. > > > ( The operator of an authorized emergency > > > vehicle shall use the siren, > > > whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other > > > vehicle operators or pedestrians > > > of the approach of the emergency vehicle. > > > © Except as provided by this section, an > > > authorized emergency vehicle > > > shall be equipped with signal lamps that: > > > (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced > > > laterally as practicable; > > > (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, > > > two located on the front > > > at the same level and two located on the rear at the > > > same level; and > > > (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet > > > in normal sunlight. > > > (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > > firefighter responding to a > > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not > > > required to, be equipped with > > > signal lamps that comply with the requirements of > > > Subsection ©. > > > (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > > firefighter responding to a > > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped > > > with a signal lamp that is > > > temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes > > > a red light visible at a > > > distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. > > > (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, > > > be equipped with signal > > > lamps that comply with Subsection ©. > > > Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, > > > 1995. > > > > > > OK, first question: > > > > > > What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department > > > for use? Would this be > > > a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. > > > What sort of bell could be > > > heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say > > > " in traffic, but it does say > > > " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that > > > mean? > > > > > > Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, > > > would you be warranted in > > > relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? > > > Would they associate your > > > bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make > > > you go Hmmmmmmm. > > > > > > Second question: What sort of " whistles " are > > > approved by the Department? > > > If your partner can whistle through his teeth > > > loudly, and by actual scientific > > > trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out > > > the window like a > > > Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your > > > approach? Are other motorists > > > expected to yield to his whistling? > > > > > > Third question: > > > > > > Are there any ambulances out there that do not have > > > two red lights spaced as > > > high and as far apart as practical on the front and > > > rear? I have seen some > > > ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are > > > they in violation of the > > > statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on > > > one side and a blue light > > > on the other? Are you running illegally? > > > > > > Fourth question: > > > > > > Some law enforcement types have of late been > > > spreading the rumor that in > > > Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on > > > police vehicles. Um, where is > > > that written? Are these cops suffering from > > > Geographical Misplacement > > > Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in > > > Massachusetts or Georgia? > > > > > > Fifth question: > > > > > > Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters > > > who respond to EMS calls in > > > their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to > > > display warning lights and > > > sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer > > > EMS personnel. If you're > > > a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from > > > having warning lights? > > > > > > Sixth question: > > > > > > Why has the law not been updated to recognize the > > > improvements in warning > > > lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why > > > doesn't the law require any sort > > > of warning light that can be seen from the sides of > > > the vehicle? > > > > > > Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you > > > see. > > > > > > Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for > > > emergency vehicles are so > > > archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? > > > The rules are obviously > > > not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types > > > could interfere with lots of us > > > if they wanted to, but for the most part they have > > > the good sense not to do > > > it. But what if one has an accident while > > > responding and one's vehicle is > > > either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as > > > in volunteer non-FD EMS > > > personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance > > > that doesn't happen to have two > > > red lights facing forward and two facing aft, > > > located as high and as far apart > > > as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck > > > doesn't have school bus type > > > warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your > > > vehicle is involved in a MVC > > > while you're running L & S? > > > > > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > > > > > Gene G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 The city of South Houston. It is separate from their fire department. The EMS operates on its own as well as house their own units and have their own responders vehicle. -- Re: Vehicle warning lights Hey Gene look up " Peoples Ambulance " in Newton County Tx vol. EMS been there for a few years now. > > > > > In the November/December Texas EMS magazine, there > > > is a question/answer about > > > use of lights and sirens. The answer correctly > > > refers the reader to the > > > Transportation Code. > > > > > > Now, having struggled through the Transportation > > > Code several times in my > > > career, and finding it about as easy to understand > > > as String Theory, I thought > > > that I would take ONE part of it, the part about > > > sirens, whistles, and bells, > > > and warning lights on emergency vehicles and ask > > > some questions to the EMS > > > brethren about the meaning of this wonderfully clear > > > and transparent portion of the > > > law. > > > > > > Please read it and then answer the questions at the > > > end. > > > > > > Sec. 547.702. ADDITIONAL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS FOR > > > AUTHORIZED EMERGENCY > > > VEHICLES. (a) An authorized emergency vehicle may > > > be equipped with a siren, > > > exhaust whistle, or bell: > > > (1) of a type approved by the department; and > > > (2) that emits a sound audible under normal > > > conditions at a distance of at > > > least 500 feet. > > > ( The operator of an authorized emergency > > > vehicle shall use the siren, > > > whistle, or bell when necessary to warn other > > > vehicle operators or pedestrians > > > of the approach of the emergency vehicle. > > > © Except as provided by this section, an > > > authorized emergency vehicle > > > shall be equipped with signal lamps that: > > > (1) are mounted as high and as widely spaced > > > laterally as practicable; > > > (2) display four alternately flashing red lights, > > > two located on the front > > > at the same level and two located on the rear at the > > > same level; and > > > (3) emit a light visible at a distance of 500 feet > > > in normal sunlight. > > > (d) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > > firefighter responding to a > > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may, but is not > > > required to, be equipped with > > > signal lamps that comply with the requirements of > > > Subsection ©. > > > (e) A private vehicle operated by a volunteer > > > firefighter responding to a > > > fire alarm or a medical emergency may be equipped > > > with a signal lamp that is > > > temporarily attached to the vehicle roof and flashes > > > a red light visible at a > > > distance of at least 500 feet in normal sunlight. > > > (f) A police vehicle may, but is not required to, > > > be equipped with signal > > > lamps that comply with Subsection ©. > > > Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, > > > 1995. > > > > > > OK, first question: > > > > > > What sort of " bells " are approved by The Department > > > for use? Would this be > > > a church bell, a Tinker Bell, or exactly what. > > > What sort of bell could be > > > heard 500 feet away? (Notice that it doesn't say > > > " in traffic, but it does say > > > " in normal conditions. " Hmm. What does that > > > mean? > > > > > > Assuming that your ambulance has an approved bell, > > > would you be warranted in > > > relying upon it to warn folks about your approach? > > > Would they associate your > > > bell with an ambulance coming? Things that make > > > you go Hmmmmmmm. > > > > > > Second question: What sort of " whistles " are > > > approved by the Department? > > > If your partner can whistle through his teeth > > > loudly, and by actual scientific > > > trial it can be heard 500 feet away, can he lean out > > > the window like a > > > Dalmation and whistle to warn other folks of your > > > approach? Are other motorists > > > expected to yield to his whistling? > > > > > > Third question: > > > > > > Are there any ambulances out there that do not have > > > two red lights spaced as > > > high and as far apart as practical on the front and > > > rear? I have seen some > > > ambulances that have amber lights on the rear. Are > > > they in violation of the > > > statute? What if your ambulance has a red light on > > > one side and a blue light > > > on the other? Are you running illegally? > > > > > > Fourth question: > > > > > > Some law enforcement types have of late been > > > spreading the rumor that in > > > Texas blue lights are by law to be used only on > > > police vehicles. Um, where is > > > that written? Are these cops suffering from > > > Geographical Misplacement > > > Syndrome, thinking that they're actually in > > > Massachusetts or Georgia? > > > > > > Fifth question: > > > > > > Why does the law recognize volunteer firefighters > > > who respond to EMS calls in > > > their privately owned vehicles, and allow them to > > > display warning lights and > > > sirens while ignoring non-fire department volunteer > > > EMS personnel. If you're > > > a volunteer EMS responder, are you prohibited from > > > having warning lights? > > > > > > Sixth question: > > > > > > Why has the law not been updated to recognize the > > > improvements in warning > > > lights, patterns of flash, color choice, and why > > > doesn't the law require any sort > > > of warning light that can be seen from the sides of > > > the vehicle? > > > > > > Well, most of the questions are rhetorical, as you > > > see. > > > > > > Seriously, the Transportation Code's provisions for > > > emergency vehicles are so > > > archiac that they are laughable. But who cares? > > > The rules are obviously > > > not being enforced. The DPS and other LE types > > > could interfere with lots of us > > > if they wanted to, but for the most part they have > > > the good sense not to do > > > it. But what if one has an accident while > > > responding and one's vehicle is > > > either not authorized to be an emergency vehicle (as > > > in volunteer non-FD EMS > > > personnel) or you're in a fire truck or ambulance > > > that doesn't happen to have two > > > red lights facing forward and two facing aft, > > > located as high and as far apart > > > as possible? If your ambulance or fire truck > > > doesn't have school bus type > > > warning lights, are you vulnerable to suit if your > > > vehicle is involved in a MVC > > > while you're running L & S? > > > > > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > > > > > Gene G. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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