RE: pH RANGES & INFO was--->Baking soda sitz bath

[Guest guest]

I hate to throw a monkey wrench in all this research,

but my daughter and I both use the baking soda and our

ages and what irritates us are quite different, plus

she has had yeast overgrowth (not lactobacillus) most

definately. So, although there are people who can't

tolerate the baking soda, I think more people probably

benefit from this than not ... and I am not sure

menopausal/nonmenopausal or measures of Ph tell the

whole story ... my Dr. knew nothing specific about my

Ph when she gave me this protocol, she had done no

testing. Although she has been wrong on some things,

she was right on this ... and my dermatitis is gone,

even though it was labeled " chronicus " (lichen simplex

chronicus " ... my daughter on the other hand has vv,

totally different from my dermatitis, yet she was the

one who insisted I should have been using the baking

soda when I was using plain water.

I'm not saying it is a cure, but it is soothing.

Although sometimes just breathing made me sting, so

the soaks seemed like a waste of time and did not help

at all.

--- DeeTroll wrote:

> *smile*

>

> I hear you 'McTwirly'.. *grin*

>

> We sure are all different hon and I agree with you

> that it's probably that connection with pH levels

> that makes the difference.

>

> The baking soda has a high alkaline pH content (pH

> 8.5) .... and the vinegar at 3 has a lower acidic

> pH level and generally more conducive to where 'we'

> should be so that is likely the difference too. An

> acid or alkaline pH at either end of that pH scale

> can be detrimental for us.

>

> Here's 'my' reasoning, for what it's worth *grin*

> (long musing out loud) forgive me.

>

> A pH of 4.5 (or less), is in the acidic range &

> where our vaginal levels should be. (prob. average

> of 3.8 to 4.3). I've seen various ranges

> mentioned but in that general area.

>

> The pH scale goes from 0 to 14 and is logarithmic,

> which means that each step is ten times the previous

> one. (sort of like this)

>

> acid neutral alkaline

> <1-------*----7------------14>

>

> In other words, a pH of * 4.5 (our V. range (and

> less)) , is 10 times more acidic than 5.5; 100 times

> more acid than 6.5' and 1,000 times more acid than

> 7.5.

>

> And that is where baking soda is, even higher at

> 8.5, and probably why it burns & irritates 'me'.

> Semen & Blood are also in that upper alkaline range

> as well and likely a possibility of why that might

> irritate us (again me) .

>

> Water is neutral at 7, so below 7 is considered acid

> and above is alkaline. Either end of that pH

> spectrum can be very potent. When I was really bad,

> so raw and excoriated like bloody raw hamburger?

> Even water irritated me and once I understood more

> about the pH levels I realized why.

>

> Anyway I pulled together a few various ranges from

> all over just for information,

>

> a.. Lye is a strong alkaline at 13 pH

> b.. Baking soda is alkaline at 8.5 pH

> c.. Blood is alkaline, pH of 7.4

> d.. Semen is alkaline at 7.5 to 8.1 pH (note if

> it's over 8.1 he may likely have an infection)

> Vaginal odor may be particularly prominent after

> unprotected intercourse because the high pH of

> semen.

> e.. Saliva is alkaline usually at 7.4

>

>

> Water is neutral in the middle at 7 pH

>

> a.. Lactobacilli thrive at an acidic 3.5-4.5 pH

> b.. Normal vaginal pH approx. 3.8 to 4.2 (acidic)

> c.. Vinegar is acidic, pH of 3

> d.. Battery acid is acidic at 1 pH

>

> A vaginal pH of 4.5 or higher may indicate a

> bacterial infection OR

> esp. a vaginal pH of 6.0 to 7.5 (in the absence of

> an infection) strongly suggests menopause. The pH

> levels of the vagina do 'rise' with age with that

> loss of E. and why 'generally' menopausal women are

> more susceptible to bacterial infections than yeast,

> (not always of course but as a general rule) That

> acidic soup is our friend & hostile to many

> bacterial infections, thank goodness.

>

> The smaller the number (pH) the more acidic, the

> higher the number, the less acidic & more alkaline.

> The Ph of the vagina is also highest during our

> menstrual cycles because of the blood.

>

>

> Also you've probably seen me often mention about not

> using the Non-oxynol 9 in lubrications or lubricated

> condoms & spermacides as that can severely irritate

> us? Well with the non-oxynol #9, most lactobacilli

> are eradicated & wiped out by exposure to even a low

> dose of that it's so potent. *sigh*

>

> You can see with blood, semen and things being high

> in pH levels why that might irritate us. And

> definitely did me. Most soaps are alkaline too and

> why they can irritate by the way.

>

> There is one instance where I read that baking soda

> would be beneficial and it's in those who have an

> 'overgrowth' of lactobacilli and is termed

> ''lactobacillosis'' or Döderlein cytolysis. That

> particular condition is characterized by an

> ''overgrowth'' of the lactobacilli we normally

> consider the good bacteria and want.

>

> In that instance the alkaline (sodium bicarbonate,

> baking soda) douches may increase the vaginal pH

> (raise it) to restore the ecosystem in order to

> limit the 'excessive' over proliferation of those

> protective organisms.

>

> Like a yeast infection, cytolytic vaginosis is also

> characterized by itching and burning, painful

> intercourse and a slight discharge. It also tends to

> become more symptomatic premenstrually right before

> & during our periods.(plus less estrogen then and

> higher progesterone)

>

> Since the symptoms are so similar, physicians often

> mistake a cytolytic vaginosis for a yeast infection

> infection instead and of course should be treated

> totally differently.

>

> It can be found with a high-powered microscopic

> examination of vaginal secretions. Here lies the

> biggest clue to differentiate between a yeast

> infection and CV:

>

> Under a microscope, candida/yeast has a distinctive

> appearance-abundant yeast-like fungal growth, and a

> ''low'' number of lactobacilli ( " the good

> bacteria " ).

> CV, on the other hand, presents with an

> ''overabundance'' of lactobacilli, with few

> yeast-like growths, and few white cells.

>

> The overgrowth of organisms that occurs with CV

> causes the vaginal environment to become too acidic

> (a low pH).

>

> When lactobacilli overgrow, too many acids are

> produced, causing vulvar irritation, burning and

> itching. This damages the epithelial cells of the

> vagina, and can cause those symptoms.

>

> Where Candida overgrowth tends to occur in a bit of

> a higher pH environment (often within our normal

> range) but can here too, and both even coexist at

> the same time.

>

> So CV and yeast/thrush as we all know can result in

> pain, itching and burning so you can see how easy it

> might be to confuse them.

>

> Management of CV consists of stopping all antifungal

> treatments (oral and intravaginal), using pads

> instead of tampons so that menstrual blood (being

> higher pH) can flow unimpeded and re-balance the pH

> of the vagina, and taking baking soda sitz baths or

> douches. (higher pH to bring 'up' the too low pH

> level)

>

> It may also be a good idea to stop taking any

> probiotic supplements that you may be using, such as

> lactobacillus acidophilus, you've already MORE than

> enough lactobacilli... and Yogurt has also been

> found to exacerbate CV. In other words, everything

> you have been told to do to treat a yeast infection

> is the wrong approach IF someone has CV.

>

> One other thought that might be a clue too....

>

> Is if someone out there finds that during or right

> befoe their periods they get relief esp. with the

> onset of their menstrual flow, it's because the

> blood has a high pH and so there is often dramatic

> relief of symptoms (where others might have more

> intense pain with the blood)

>

> So if relief comes then that 'might' be a sign of CV

> (with a too low pH the blood counters that &

> relieves symptoms) and again why the baking soda can

> help in that particular case too (being a high pH

> countering one that's very low & too acidic in the

> vagina) .

>

> Just an interesting side note from one article:

>

> The case for not using Tampons:

>

> ''Women should be advised to allow the menstrual

> flow to pass through

> the vaginal canal naturally, as the alkaline nature

> of menstrual

> fluid combines with the acidic vaginal environment,

> balancing the

> chemistry (pH) of the vagina with normal, healthy

> flora''

>

> Yikes... look at that ramble, LOL and did I confuse

> yet?

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I hate to throw a monkey wrench in all this research,

but my daughter and I both use the baking soda and our

ages and what irritates us are quite different, plus

she has had yeast overgrowth (not lactobacillus) most

definately. So, although there are people who can't

tolerate the baking soda, I think more people probably

benefit from this than not ... and I am not sure

menopausal/nonmenopausal or measures of Ph tell the

whole story ... my Dr. knew nothing specific about my

Ph when she gave me this protocol, she had done no

testing. Although she has been wrong on some things,

she was right on this ... and my dermatitis is gone,

even though it was labeled " chronicus " (lichen simplex

chronicus " ... my daughter on the other hand has vv,

totally different from my dermatitis, yet she was the

one who insisted I should have been using the baking

soda when I was using plain water.

I'm not saying it is a cure, but it is soothing.

Although sometimes just breathing made me sting, so

the soaks seemed like a waste of time and did not help

at all.

--- DeeTroll wrote:

> *smile*

>

> I hear you 'McTwirly'.. *grin*

>

> We sure are all different hon and I agree with you

> that it's probably that connection with pH levels

> that makes the difference.

>

> The baking soda has a high alkaline pH content (pH

> 8.5) .... and the vinegar at 3 has a lower acidic

> pH level and generally more conducive to where 'we'

> should be so that is likely the difference too. An

> acid or alkaline pH at either end of that pH scale

> can be detrimental for us.

>

> Here's 'my' reasoning, for what it's worth *grin*

> (long musing out loud) forgive me.

>

> A pH of 4.5 (or less), is in the acidic range &

> where our vaginal levels should be. (prob. average

> of 3.8 to 4.3). I've seen various ranges

> mentioned but in that general area.

>

> The pH scale goes from 0 to 14 and is logarithmic,

> which means that each step is ten times the previous

> one. (sort of like this)

>

> acid neutral alkaline

> <1-------*----7------------14>

>

> In other words, a pH of * 4.5 (our V. range (and

> less)) , is 10 times more acidic than 5.5; 100 times

> more acid than 6.5' and 1,000 times more acid than

> 7.5.

>

> And that is where baking soda is, even higher at

> 8.5, and probably why it burns & irritates 'me'.

> Semen & Blood are also in that upper alkaline range

> as well and likely a possibility of why that might

> irritate us (again me) .

>

> Water is neutral at 7, so below 7 is considered acid

> and above is alkaline. Either end of that pH

> spectrum can be very potent. When I was really bad,

> so raw and excoriated like bloody raw hamburger?

> Even water irritated me and once I understood more

> about the pH levels I realized why.

>

> Anyway I pulled together a few various ranges from

> all over just for information,

>

> a.. Lye is a strong alkaline at 13 pH

> b.. Baking soda is alkaline at 8.5 pH

> c.. Blood is alkaline, pH of 7.4

> d.. Semen is alkaline at 7.5 to 8.1 pH (note if

> it's over 8.1 he may likely have an infection)

> Vaginal odor may be particularly prominent after

> unprotected intercourse because the high pH of

> semen.

> e.. Saliva is alkaline usually at 7.4

>

>

> Water is neutral in the middle at 7 pH

>

> a.. Lactobacilli thrive at an acidic 3.5-4.5 pH

> b.. Normal vaginal pH approx. 3.8 to 4.2 (acidic)

> c.. Vinegar is acidic, pH of 3

> d.. Battery acid is acidic at 1 pH

>

> A vaginal pH of 4.5 or higher may indicate a

> bacterial infection OR

> esp. a vaginal pH of 6.0 to 7.5 (in the absence of

> an infection) strongly suggests menopause. The pH

> levels of the vagina do 'rise' with age with that

> loss of E. and why 'generally' menopausal women are

> more susceptible to bacterial infections than yeast,

> (not always of course but as a general rule) That

> acidic soup is our friend & hostile to many

> bacterial infections, thank goodness.

>

> The smaller the number (pH) the more acidic, the

> higher the number, the less acidic & more alkaline.

> The Ph of the vagina is also highest during our

> menstrual cycles because of the blood.

>

>

> Also you've probably seen me often mention about not

> using the Non-oxynol 9 in lubrications or lubricated

> condoms & spermacides as that can severely irritate

> us? Well with the non-oxynol #9, most lactobacilli

> are eradicated & wiped out by exposure to even a low

> dose of that it's so potent. *sigh*

>

> You can see with blood, semen and things being high

> in pH levels why that might irritate us. And

> definitely did me. Most soaps are alkaline too and

> why they can irritate by the way.

>

> There is one instance where I read that baking soda

> would be beneficial and it's in those who have an

> 'overgrowth' of lactobacilli and is termed

> ''lactobacillosis'' or Döderlein cytolysis. That

> particular condition is characterized by an

> ''overgrowth'' of the lactobacilli we normally

> consider the good bacteria and want.

>

> In that instance the alkaline (sodium bicarbonate,

> baking soda) douches may increase the vaginal pH

> (raise it) to restore the ecosystem in order to

> limit the 'excessive' over proliferation of those

> protective organisms.

>

> Like a yeast infection, cytolytic vaginosis is also

> characterized by itching and burning, painful

> intercourse and a slight discharge. It also tends to

> become more symptomatic premenstrually right before

> & during our periods.(plus less estrogen then and

> higher progesterone)

>

> Since the symptoms are so similar, physicians often

> mistake a cytolytic vaginosis for a yeast infection

> infection instead and of course should be treated

> totally differently.

>

> It can be found with a high-powered microscopic

> examination of vaginal secretions. Here lies the

> biggest clue to differentiate between a yeast

> infection and CV:

>

> Under a microscope, candida/yeast has a distinctive

> appearance-abundant yeast-like fungal growth, and a

> ''low'' number of lactobacilli ( " the good

> bacteria " ).

> CV, on the other hand, presents with an

> ''overabundance'' of lactobacilli, with few

> yeast-like growths, and few white cells.

>

> The overgrowth of organisms that occurs with CV

> causes the vaginal environment to become too acidic

> (a low pH).

>

> When lactobacilli overgrow, too many acids are

> produced, causing vulvar irritation, burning and

> itching. This damages the epithelial cells of the

> vagina, and can cause those symptoms.

>

> Where Candida overgrowth tends to occur in a bit of

> a higher pH environment (often within our normal

> range) but can here too, and both even coexist at

> the same time.

>

> So CV and yeast/thrush as we all know can result in

> pain, itching and burning so you can see how easy it

> might be to confuse them.

>

> Management of CV consists of stopping all antifungal

> treatments (oral and intravaginal), using pads

> instead of tampons so that menstrual blood (being

> higher pH) can flow unimpeded and re-balance the pH

> of the vagina, and taking baking soda sitz baths or

> douches. (higher pH to bring 'up' the too low pH

> level)

>

> It may also be a good idea to stop taking any

> probiotic supplements that you may be using, such as

> lactobacillus acidophilus, you've already MORE than

> enough lactobacilli... and Yogurt has also been

> found to exacerbate CV. In other words, everything

> you have been told to do to treat a yeast infection

> is the wrong approach IF someone has CV.

>

> One other thought that might be a clue too....

>

> Is if someone out there finds that during or right

> befoe their periods they get relief esp. with the

> onset of their menstrual flow, it's because the

> blood has a high pH and so there is often dramatic

> relief of symptoms (where others might have more

> intense pain with the blood)

>

> So if relief comes then that 'might' be a sign of CV

> (with a too low pH the blood counters that &

> relieves symptoms) and again why the baking soda can

> help in that particular case too (being a high pH

> countering one that's very low & too acidic in the

> vagina) .

>

> Just an interesting side note from one article:

>

> The case for not using Tampons:

>

> ''Women should be advised to allow the menstrual

> flow to pass through

> the vaginal canal naturally, as the alkaline nature

> of menstrual

> fluid combines with the acidic vaginal environment,

> balancing the

> chemistry (pH) of the vagina with normal, healthy

> flora''

>

> Yikes... look at that ramble, LOL and did I confuse

> yet?

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

NO Monkey wrench McTwirly, *grin*.... not at all...

we never know what will work or not till we try it.

Continued success hon. Dee~

[Guest guest]

NO Monkey wrench McTwirly, *grin*.... not at all...

we never know what will work or not till we try it.

Continued success hon. Dee~

[Guest guest]

Dee and McTwirly,

Thanks for all the information! Being as i am one of those who seems to get

relief during my period.....i look forward to experimenting with baking soda

and seeing if a higher pH helps. Thanks again,

CarolLynn

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dee and McTwirly,

Thanks for all the information! Being as i am one of those who seems to get

relief during my period.....i look forward to experimenting with baking soda

and seeing if a higher pH helps. Thanks again,

CarolLynn

_________________________________________________________________

Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!

http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

[Guest guest]

Good luck Carol Lynn....

I sure hope that's is one of the answers for you hon. It is interesting and glad I put that in there about those who get relief while 'on' their periods while others find it extremely aggravating. Ya just never know what might hit the nail on the head for a person.

Hugs hon and be sure to let us know how it goes.

Dee~

[Guest guest]

Good luck Carol Lynn....

I sure hope that's is one of the answers for you hon. It is interesting and glad I put that in there about those who get relief while 'on' their periods while others find it extremely aggravating. Ya just never know what might hit the nail on the head for a person.

Hugs hon and be sure to let us know how it goes.

Dee~

[Guest guest]

I

do agree. In the early days of my burning pain, I found it quite soothing. I

used to also add some hydrogen peroxide!!!!!

Dusty

Re: pH RANGES &

INFO was--->Baking soda sitz bath

·

SNIP

I think more people probably

benefit from this than not ... and I am not sure

menopausal/nonmenopausal or measures of Ph tell the

whole story ... my Dr. knew nothing specific about my

Ph when she gave me this protocol, she had done no

testing. Although she has been wrong on some things,

she was right on this ... and my dermatitis is gone,

even though it was labeled " chronicus " (lichen simplex

chronicus " ... my daughter on the other hand has vv,

totally different from my dermatitis, yet she was the

one who insisted I should have been using the baking

soda when I was using plain water.