Re: Letter to National Review

[Guest guest]

Hello All

...... You go, Girl! A GREAT kick but letter to the National Review!

Steve

[Guest guest]

Good job, . Do we know for sure that Keating is a stepper? I

saw it mentioned on the freedomofmind list.

Tommy

> Here's mine folks. Hope it's okay. I had to get it out before I get

> busy again.

>

> How can we get to Bush?

>

> *****************************************************************

>

> Dear Editor

>

> We have a First Amendment in this country. It is a good thing, not a

> bothersome

> obstacle that might prevent 12-step based treatment centers from

> getting

> rich off the ignorance of folks who don't understand that AA

> is not medicine. AA is a religious faith healing organization that

> does

> *not* help 98% of all alcoholics.

>

> I was astonished to read the article by Governor Keating criticizing

> the

> decisions

> of several courts, that coerced attendance at AA meetings is a

> violation

> of our Constitution's

> Establishment clause. The article was utter nonsense.

>

> In one paragraph, Keating melodramatically dismisses the objections

of

> the coerced to being forced to

> participate in the religious excersizes of AA to be like banning

> " banned

> all forms of literacy education that use the alphabet because a

single

> plaintiff objects to the letter J. "

>

> This analogy is totally false and seems designed to confuse the

> reader.

> AA is religious

> to the core, from the 12-steps, which not only demand a God, but

> define

> God as well, as one who " restores sanity,(Step 2) removes " character

> defects " (Step 6 & 7) and can be contacted (Step 11), to the prayers

and

> cultish atmosphere of many of the meetings.

> To understand how religious AA is, simply open the book " Alcoholics

> Anonymous " to

> almost any page. You will find the book is little more than a text

> book

> on how to obtain conscious contact with a deity, along with personal

> testimonials in the back of the book. The courts making these

> decisions

> could see that. They had evidence from both sides in front of them.

>

> And Keating knows very well his analogy was false. He goes right on

to

> admit that the core

> of AA's program is " Came to believe that a power greater than

> ourselves

> could

> restore us to sanity. "

>

> Keating also imparts falsehoods by pretending AA is the only way

> people

> get sober. In fact, the vast majority of people who quit abusing

drugs

> and alcohol don't get any treatment of all. They do what Bush

> did, and just decide one day they were sick of the consequences of

> drinking and using and quit. Also, if someone does decide s/he needs

> treatment, there are plenty of secular organizations that can help,

> thereby preserving the integrity our Constitution.

>

> In his article, Keating proves that although statistics don't lie,

you

> can lie with statistics. None of the studies he quoted prove that AA

> works for paroles any better than any other treatment, because there

> were no control groups in the studies comparing AA meetings with

> secular

> meetings, psychotherapy, or other forms of treatment. If the studies

> did

> have controls, chances are the results would be similar to the

results

> of the MATCH study--that different " treatments " for alcoholism all

get

> similar results. The overall fact is, only about 2% of alcoholics

get

> sober in AA, and in NA, the stats are even lower.

>

> You and your children have a right to be free from being ordered by

> the

> government to participate in any religious excersize or

organization.

> This right was paid for by those brave folks buried in Revolutionary

> War

> graveyards. Governor Keating, lost in the folklore and pseudo

science

> of

> AA, would selfishly take that right away. Being a religious person

> myself, I will not only pray President Bush passes him over as U.S.

> Attorney General, but I will write Bush myself and beg him not to.

I

> hope you all will as well. We do not need AA members in government

> pushing their agendas any more than we need Scientologists in

> government

> pushing theirs.

>

> Fransway

> http://www.aahorror.net

[Guest guest]

> > Here's mine folks. Hope it's okay. I had to get it out before I

get

> > busy again.

> >

> > How can we get to Bush?

> >

> > *****************************************************************

> >

> > Dear Editor

> >

> > We have a First Amendment in this country. It is a good thing,

not a

> > bothersome

> > obstacle that might prevent 12-step based treatment centers from

> > getting

> > rich off the ignorance of folks who don't understand that AA

> > is not medicine. AA is a religious faith healing organization

that

> > does

> > *not* help 98% of all alcoholics.

> >

> > I was astonished to read the article by Governor Keating

criticizing

> > the

> > decisions

> > of several courts, that coerced attendance at AA meetings is a

> > violation

> > of our Constitution's

> > Establishment clause. The article was utter nonsense.

> >

> > In one paragraph, Keating melodramatically dismisses the

objections

> of

> > the coerced to being forced to

> > participate in the religious excersizes of AA to be like banning

> > " banned

> > all forms of literacy education that use the alphabet because a

> single

> > plaintiff objects to the letter J. "

> >

> > This analogy is totally false and seems designed to confuse the

> > reader.

> > AA is religious

> > to the core, from the 12-steps, which not only demand a God, but

> > define

> > God as well, as one who " restores sanity,(Step 2)

removes " character

> > defects " (Step 6 & 7) and can be contacted (Step 11), to the

prayers

> and

> > cultish atmosphere of many of the meetings.

> > To understand how religious AA is, simply open the

book " Alcoholics

> > Anonymous " to

> > almost any page. You will find the book is little more than a

text

> > book

> > on how to obtain conscious contact with a deity, along with

personal

> > testimonials in the back of the book. The courts making these

> > decisions

> > could see that. They had evidence from both sides in front of

them.

> >

> > And Keating knows very well his analogy was false. He goes right

on

> to

> > admit that the core

> > of AA's program is " Came to believe that a power greater than

> > ourselves

> > could

> > restore us to sanity. "

> >

> > Keating also imparts falsehoods by pretending AA is the only way

> > people

> > get sober. In fact, the vast majority of people who quit abusing

> drugs

> > and alcohol don't get any treatment of all. They do what

Bush

> > did, and just decide one day they were sick of the consequences of

> > drinking and using and quit. Also, if someone does decide s/he

needs

> > treatment, there are plenty of secular organizations that can

help,

> > thereby preserving the integrity our Constitution.

> >

> > In his article, Keating proves that although statistics don't

lie,

> you

> > can lie with statistics. None of the studies he quoted prove that

AA

> > works for paroles any better than any other treatment, because

there

> > were no control groups in the studies comparing AA meetings with

> > secular

> > meetings, psychotherapy, or other forms of treatment. If the

studies

> > did

> > have controls, chances are the results would be similar to the

> results

> > of the MATCH study--that different " treatments " for alcoholism

all

> get

> > similar results. The overall fact is, only about 2% of alcoholics

> get

> > sober in AA, and in NA, the stats are even lower.

> >

> > You and your children have a right to be free from being ordered

by

> > the

> > government to participate in any religious excersize or

> organization.

> > This right was paid for by those brave folks buried in

Revolutionary

> > War

> > graveyards. Governor Keating, lost in the folklore and pseudo

> science

> > of

> > AA, would selfishly take that right away. Being a religious person

> > myself, I will not only pray President Bush passes him over as

U.S.

> > Attorney General, but I will write Bush myself and beg him not

to.

> I

> > hope you all will as well. We do not need AA members in

government

> > pushing their agendas any more than we need Scientologists in

> > government

> > pushing theirs.

> >

> > Fransway

> > http://www.aahorror.net

[Guest guest]

> > Good job, . Do we know for sure that Keating is a stepper?

>

> No, I didn't know for sure; just had a feeling. It was the

> irrationality of the article. So strange, like some of the AA

> doctors and therapists on Addict-L.

Also, he appears to use technical detail abt AA and its history, and

certainly be very praising of it, yet nevertheless makes that Third

Step/Second Step mistake. what this suggests to me is a grouper who

was *thinking* about the third step because of its powerful insider

doctrine valuwe working on him, nut knowing he was speaking publicly,

he automatically used outsider doctrine and quoted the second step in

what he actually said. A sympathetic non-grouper (are there

any?) would almost certainly have cited the second step correctly; if

they wished to talk about the third step, they would have emphasized

the " as we understood Him " bit. This is pretty too close to the

knuckle though for a grouper to use publicly, hence the error. It's

possible Keating is only closely involved with a grouper and this is

why he has some familiarity with AA - but its doubtful, and in any

case this would qualify him for Al-Anon and he might be getting his

ideas from there.

P.