RE: Lecithin/Choline supplements

[Guest guest]

I take Silymarin and SAMe, but I also asked my hep first. His response was

that it probably wouldn't hurt anything (not exactly a ringing endorsement).

I have no experience with lecithin, although I think Patti's Mike took it

before transplant.

Based on 's research into bile transport theory, the SAMe might

actually be helping. I tried fish oil, but it sure doesn't stay with me

very long.

My hep thinks that all drugs kill rats (mostly because they're fed enough to

determine fatal doses). I'm pretty sure he was joking - he's Australian and

it's pretty hard to tell sometimes. I was explaining a study that someone

had done with Silymarin and rats. They tied off bile ducts to simulate

stenosis/blockage, then put them on Silymarin to see what would happen. In

this study, their livers did quite well (until they were dissected, of

course).

Arne

54 - UC 9/77 - PSC 4/00

Alive and (mostly) well in Minnesota

-----Original Message-----

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Soloway

....Does anyone in the group take lecithin or choline? I am also interested

in Milk Thistle and its active ingredient silymarin. I am thinking about

taking these supplements. Any thoughts?

[Guest guest]

Dear ;

Choline is converted to glycine betaine (betaine) in mammals

(including humans). Betaine serves as an important osmolyte in the

kidney. It can also serve as a methyl donor for the conversion of

homocysteine to methionine in the liver. Methionine in turn gives

rise to S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe) that serves as an important

methyl donor in the liver. When S-adenosylmethionine is used as a

methyl donor, it gives rise to S-adenosylhomocysteine, which then

gets converted back to homocysteine, which can then be remethylated

again by betaine, or remthylated by methyltetrahydrofolate (derived

from folic acid) to methionine. In ulcerative colitis there tends to

be folate and/or betaine deficiencies which can cause homocysteine

levels to rise. This can prevent the above-mentioned methylation

cycle from operating, leading, for example, to aberrant DNA

methylation. Taking folate as a supplement is recommended for UC to

prevent colon cancer. Betaine supplements have also been shown to

reduce homocysteine levels and increase methionine and SAMe levels,

and are implicated in diminishing colon cancer risks.

The important role of betaine in maintaining the methylation cycle

in the liver has led to the use of betaine as a supplement in non-

alcoholic steatohepatitis:

_______________________

Am J Gastroenterol. 2001 Sep;96(9):2711-7.

Betaine, a promising new agent for patients with nonalcoholic

steatohepatitis: results of a pilot study.

Abdelmalek MF, Angulo P, nsen RA, Sylvestre PB, Lindor KD.

Divisions of Gastroenterology and Hepatology and Surgical Pathology,

Mayo Clinic and Foundation, Rochester, Minnesota 55905, USA.

OBJECTIVES: No effective therapy currently exists for patients with

nonalcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH). Betaine, a naturally occurring

metabolite of choline, has been shown to raise S-adenosylmethionine

(SAM) levels that may in turn play a role in decreasing hepatic

steatosis. Our aim was to determine the safety and effects of

betaine on liver biochemistries and histological markers of disease

activity in patients with NASH. METHODS: Ten adult patients with

NASH were enrolled. Patients received betaine anhydrous for oral

solution (Cystadane) in two divided doses daily for 12 months. Seven

out of 10 patients completed 1 yr of treatment with betaine.

RESULTS: A significant improvement in serum levels of aspartate

aminotransferase (p = 0.02) and ALAT (p = 0.007) occurred during

treatment. Aminotransferases normalized in three of seven patients,

decreased by >50% in three of seven patients, and remained unchanged

in one patient when compared to baseline values. A marked

improvement in serum levels of aminotransferases (ALT -39%; AST -

38%) also occurred during treatment in those patients who did not

complete 1 yr of treatment. Similarly, a marked improvement in the

degree of steatosis, necroinflammatory grade, and stage of fibrosis

was noted at 1 yr of treatment with betaine. Transitory GI adverse

events that did not require any dose reduction or discontinuation of

betaine occurred in four patients. CONCLUSIONS: Betaine is a safe

and well tolerated drug that leads to a significant biochemical and

histological improvement in patients with NASH. This novel agent

deserves further evaluation in a randomized, placebo-controlled

trial.

Publication Types:

Clinical Trial

PMID: 11569700

_______________________

Most plant and animal foods will contain choline and

phosphatidylcholine (lecithin), but relatively few contain glycine

betaine (betaine). Some good sources of betaine include fresh

spinach leaves and wheat bran:

_______________________

Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Sep;80(3):539-49.

Betaine in human nutrition.

Craig SA.

Danisco USA Inc., 440 Saw Mill River Road, Ardsley, NY 10502, USA.

stuart.craig@...

Betaine is distributed widely in animals, plants, and

microorganisms, and rich dietary sources include seafood, especially

marine invertebrates (approximately 1%); wheat germ or bran

(approximately 1%); and spinach (approximately 0.7%). The principal

physiologic role of betaine is as an osmolyte and methyl donor

(transmethylation). As an osmolyte, betaine protects cells,

proteins, and enzymes from environmental stress (eg, low water, high

salinity, or extreme temperature). As a methyl donor, betaine

participates in the methionine cycle-primarily in the human liver

and kidneys. Inadequate dietary intake of methyl groups leads to

hypomethylation in many important pathways, including 1) disturbed

hepatic protein (methionine) metabolism as determined by elevated

plasma homocysteine concentrations and decreased S-

adenosylmethionine concentrations, and 2) inadequate hepatic fat

metabolism, which leads to steatosis (fatty accumulation) and

subsequent plasma dyslipidemia. This alteration in liver metabolism

may contribute to various diseases, including coronary, cerebral,

hepatic, and vascular diseases. Betaine has been shown to protect

internal organs, improve vascular risk factors, and enhance

performance. Databases of betaine content in food are being

developed for correlation with population health studies. The

growing body of evidence shows that betaine is an important nutrient

for the prevention of chronic disease.

Publication Types:

Review

PMID: 15321791

_______________________

For this reason we encourage our son to eat spinach leaves in his

salads, rather than lettuce, which does not contain betaine.

Others in the group take SAMe as a supplement.

Best regards,

Dave

(father of (20); PSC 07/03; UC 08/03)

[Guest guest]

Mike took it before transplant and continues to take it -

he said if he doesn't, his body knows it....

actually, we all should be taking it, you don't need a specific health

issue to enjoy its' benefits.......and it has been given the stamp of

approval by his transplant team.

Patti

" the trouble with normal is that it only gets worse "

>

>Reply-To:

>To: < >

>Subject: RE: Lecithin/Choline supplements

>Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:22:21 -0600

>

>I take Silymarin and SAMe, but I also asked my hep first. His response was

>that it probably wouldn't hurt anything (not exactly a ringing

>endorsement).

>I have no experience with lecithin, although I think Patti's Mike took it

>before transplant.

>

>Based on 's research into bile transport theory, the SAMe might

>actually be helping. I tried fish oil, but it sure doesn't stay with me

>very long.

>

>My hep thinks that all drugs kill rats (mostly because they're fed enough

>to

>determine fatal doses). I'm pretty sure he was joking - he's Australian

>and

>it's pretty hard to tell sometimes. I was explaining a study that someone

>had done with Silymarin and rats. They tied off bile ducts to simulate

>stenosis/blockage, then put them on Silymarin to see what would happen. In

>this study, their livers did quite well (until they were dissected, of

>course).

>

>

>Arne

>54 - UC 9/77 - PSC 4/00

>Alive and (mostly) well in Minnesota

>

>

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: [mailto: ] On

>Behalf Of Soloway

>

>...Does anyone in the group take lecithin or choline? I am also interested

>in Milk Thistle and its active ingredient silymarin. I am thinking about

>taking these supplements. Any thoughts?

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Haven't replied for a while, hi to all.

I have been taking 2 Lecithin caps and a Cayenne pepper capsule daily since

last July and all my liver function blood tests have returned to " normal "

levels accept for my GGT, (this is continues to improve though and is

approaching normal).

That's my 2 cents worth.

All for now.

Ray Laird, Thunder Bay ON Canada - PSC 2003.

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: RE: Lecithin/Choline supplements

>Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 19:06:51 -0400

>

>Mike took it before transplant and continues to take it -

>he said if he doesn't, his body knows it....

>actually, we all should be taking it, you don't need a specific health

>issue to enjoy its' benefits.......and it has been given the stamp of

>approval by his transplant team.

>

>Patti

>

>

>

> " the trouble with normal is that it only gets worse "

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> >Reply-To:

> >To: < >

> >Subject: RE: Lecithin/Choline supplements

> >Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 17:22:21 -0600

> >

> >I take Silymarin and SAMe, but I also asked my hep first. His response

>was

> >that it probably wouldn't hurt anything (not exactly a ringing

> >endorsement).

> >I have no experience with lecithin, although I think Patti's Mike took it

> >before transplant.

> >

> >Based on 's research into bile transport theory, the SAMe might

> >actually be helping. I tried fish oil, but it sure doesn't stay with me

> >very long.

> >

> >My hep thinks that all drugs kill rats (mostly because they're fed enough

> >to

> >determine fatal doses). I'm pretty sure he was joking - he's Australian

> >and

> >it's pretty hard to tell sometimes. I was explaining a study that

>someone

> >had done with Silymarin and rats. They tied off bile ducts to simulate

> >stenosis/blockage, then put them on Silymarin to see what would happen.

>In

> >this study, their livers did quite well (until they were dissected, of

> >course).

> >

> >

> >Arne

> >54 - UC 9/77 - PSC 4/00

> >Alive and (mostly) well in Minnesota

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: [mailto: ] On

> >Behalf Of Soloway

> >

> >...Does anyone in the group take lecithin or choline? I am also

>interested

> >in Milk Thistle and its active ingredient silymarin. I am thinking about

> >taking these supplements. Any thoughts?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Ray,

why do you take the pepper capsule? I ask out of curiosity.

Rita

[Guest guest]

Rita,

I read a book about a man who had heart trouble years ago and started taking

Cayenne pepper to increase circulation, he avoided further bypass surgery

and lived many years after in good health. The book is called " Left for

Dead " it has a section on liver disease etc. it mentions Lecithin among

other things.

The pepper is supposed to relax smooth muscles and increase fluid movement

in general, so the thought is it would increase bile flow? Also the Cayenne

pepper is supposed to increase secretions in the digestive track and

actually cure ulcers etc. and to aid in bowel disease.

I thought what the heck it can't hurt and things look pretty good?!

Anyhow hope that helps.

Ray

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Lecithin/Choline supplements

>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:24:25 -0000

>

>Ray,

>why do you take the pepper capsule? I ask out of curiosity.

>Rita

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Rita,

I read a book about a man who had heart trouble years ago and started taking

Cayenne pepper to increase circulation, he avoided further bypass surgery

and lived many years after in good health. The book is called " Left for

Dead " it has a section on liver disease etc. it mentions Lecithin among

other things.

The pepper is supposed to relax smooth muscles and increase fluid movement

in general, so the thought is it would increase bile flow? Also the Cayenne

pepper is supposed to increase secretions in the digestive track and

actually cure ulcers etc. and to aid in bowel disease.

I thought what the heck it can't hurt and things look pretty good?!

Anyhow hope that helps.

Ray

>

>Reply-To:

>To:

>Subject: Re: Lecithin/Choline supplements

>Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 20:24:25 -0000

>

>Ray,

>why do you take the pepper capsule? I ask out of curiosity.

>Rita

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ray, let me tell you why my interest in the pepper. We come from West

Africa (live in the US) but both my husband and I have Caucasian

grandparents. West Africans eat spicy food and so put quite a bit of

pepper in foods we cook. My son who has the PSC and UC is the only

one of my children who has not been able to tolerate peppery food

since he was little. It is not that it upsets his stomach. He just

had never wanted or liked it and complains when I cook and it is too

" hot " for him (not for others). In West Africa, peppery spicy food is

eaten at even higher concentrations than I can tolerate and what is

said is that it is good to clean the stomach, intestines, clear colds,

whatever. You name it. Some of us believe those are all old wives

tales but there may be some truth to it, I guess.

Rita

[Guest guest]

>>>It is not that it upsets his stomach. He just

had never wanted or liked it and complains when I

cook and it is too

" hot " for him <<<

Rita, I find this very interesting...my daughter will not eat spicy

food either! When she was really little she wouldn’t even eat anything

that was red for fear that it would be spicy.

I love spicy foods. I always thought it ironic that my daughter didn’t.

Beth Hunt

Mom to : seven years old PSC (8/04) UC

(2/06)

" But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he

that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them

that diligently seek him. " Hebrews 11:6