Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 > > > It's my understanding that supporting fried adrenals/thyroid is > necessary while chelating. I don't think it's essential for everyone, but if your hormone function is poor, you will feel a lot better with hormone support. Also, if you have copper problems, you > can't really use ala? But if you have mercury in your brain , you > have to use ala, right? So, andy says go ahead and use ala anyway? It is not necessary to completely avoid ALA - just restrict it somewhat depending on how high your copper level is. Copper over 125 then you should chelate with ALA no more than 1 day on for every 3 days off. > Also, dmsa can cause problems with neutraphils or whatever they're > called.? There is a *rare* side effect of neutropenia with DMSA. Other than that it does reduce neutrophils slightly, but this is not usually a problem. I have had a chronic neutropenia for years before starting chelation, and it has not gotten worse with DMSA. > I'm just finding that this chelation stuff is waaaay more > complicated than I thought. Also, how does chelation affect balancing > your hormones with HC and Armour.?? The only direct effect is that chelation will get the metals out of your endocrine system and will eventually reduce your need for supplemental hormones. I know adrenal/thyroid stuff > takes awhile (months, years?) but I don't want to wait that long to > chelate. So, how do you find the right balance for Armour/HC while > you're chelating mercury and experiencing all these side- > effects/redistribution/copper problems.???? You don't have to get your hormones totally optimized before starting chelation. If you are having hormone-related problems (bad depression, profound fatigue, that sort of thing) that would interfere with your ability to dose yourself correctly, then you may need to wait until those things improve enough to get started. Otherwise you can start chelating. > Also, as I'm reading the archives, I'm noticing that people are > having sometimes awful effects from chelation which TK writes is > normal. That's scary to me. I can't afford to do any more damage to > my body - how do I know chelation/mercury redistribution won't do > that?? When you hear of someone having bad side effects, remember that you don't know exactly what they are doing. They may be making mistakes that you don't know about (taking too high a dose, taking it too infrequently, eating an inappropriate amount of sulfur for their needs, etc). They may also have an unrelated problem that would have occurred whether they are taking chelators or not. The most important thing to remember IMO is if you start feeling worse, try lowering your dose. If that isn't the problem, ask questions here and look at Andy's book(s) until you get a good lead on what is going on. You can always stop chelating until you work out the problem. > So, chelation is pulling it out/redistributing it/pulling it > out/redistributing it/ until at some point you get it all/most of it > out?? The low, frequent dose protocol does a lot more pulling it out than redistributing. > Gosh, after all this reading I still don't quite understand it. > > Val It is a bit overwhelming at first. Give yourself the time you need to be comfortable starting. If feeling overwhelmed or anxious is a symptom you have a lot, maybe you do need to get the hormone support optimized a bit more before starting, or possibly look at some of the supps Andy suggests for anxiety. I find taurine and good blood sugar management are really helpful for this. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 > > > It's my understanding that supporting fried adrenals/thyroid is > necessary while chelating. I don't think it's essential for everyone, but if your hormone function is poor, you will feel a lot better with hormone support. Also, if you have copper problems, you > can't really use ala? But if you have mercury in your brain , you > have to use ala, right? So, andy says go ahead and use ala anyway? It is not necessary to completely avoid ALA - just restrict it somewhat depending on how high your copper level is. Copper over 125 then you should chelate with ALA no more than 1 day on for every 3 days off. > Also, dmsa can cause problems with neutraphils or whatever they're > called.? There is a *rare* side effect of neutropenia with DMSA. Other than that it does reduce neutrophils slightly, but this is not usually a problem. I have had a chronic neutropenia for years before starting chelation, and it has not gotten worse with DMSA. > I'm just finding that this chelation stuff is waaaay more > complicated than I thought. Also, how does chelation affect balancing > your hormones with HC and Armour.?? The only direct effect is that chelation will get the metals out of your endocrine system and will eventually reduce your need for supplemental hormones. I know adrenal/thyroid stuff > takes awhile (months, years?) but I don't want to wait that long to > chelate. So, how do you find the right balance for Armour/HC while > you're chelating mercury and experiencing all these side- > effects/redistribution/copper problems.???? You don't have to get your hormones totally optimized before starting chelation. If you are having hormone-related problems (bad depression, profound fatigue, that sort of thing) that would interfere with your ability to dose yourself correctly, then you may need to wait until those things improve enough to get started. Otherwise you can start chelating. > Also, as I'm reading the archives, I'm noticing that people are > having sometimes awful effects from chelation which TK writes is > normal. That's scary to me. I can't afford to do any more damage to > my body - how do I know chelation/mercury redistribution won't do > that?? When you hear of someone having bad side effects, remember that you don't know exactly what they are doing. They may be making mistakes that you don't know about (taking too high a dose, taking it too infrequently, eating an inappropriate amount of sulfur for their needs, etc). They may also have an unrelated problem that would have occurred whether they are taking chelators or not. The most important thing to remember IMO is if you start feeling worse, try lowering your dose. If that isn't the problem, ask questions here and look at Andy's book(s) until you get a good lead on what is going on. You can always stop chelating until you work out the problem. > So, chelation is pulling it out/redistributing it/pulling it > out/redistributing it/ until at some point you get it all/most of it > out?? The low, frequent dose protocol does a lot more pulling it out than redistributing. > Gosh, after all this reading I still don't quite understand it. > > Val It is a bit overwhelming at first. Give yourself the time you need to be comfortable starting. If feeling overwhelmed or anxious is a symptom you have a lot, maybe you do need to get the hormone support optimized a bit more before starting, or possibly look at some of the supps Andy suggests for anxiety. I find taurine and good blood sugar management are really helpful for this. -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 , thank you so much again. It's so nice to get real answers without forking over hundreds of dollars! I've calmed down since the last post. I ate something and my HC kicked in. You know your advice about 1 day of ALA struck a chord. 3 yrs ago my copper levels were 110. They're probably alot higher now. About a month ago I did a round of ala. Anyway, 1 day of ALA was great! But after the 2nd and 3rd day it went downhill and the day or so after off round, I was a nervous/emotional wreck. So maybe if I just do 1 full day of ALA, that will be ok?? It was a very good day. Would love to have that again! Thanks again, Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 , thank you so much again. It's so nice to get real answers without forking over hundreds of dollars! I've calmed down since the last post. I ate something and my HC kicked in. You know your advice about 1 day of ALA struck a chord. 3 yrs ago my copper levels were 110. They're probably alot higher now. About a month ago I did a round of ala. Anyway, 1 day of ALA was great! But after the 2nd and 3rd day it went downhill and the day or so after off round, I was a nervous/emotional wreck. So maybe if I just do 1 full day of ALA, that will be ok?? It was a very good day. Would love to have that again! Thanks again, Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 > > > , > > thank you so much again. It's so nice to get real answers without > forking over hundreds of dollars! > > I've calmed down since the last post. I ate something and my HC > kicked in. When my adrenals were in bad shape, this was a significant issue for me. I felt dramatically better when I managed my blood sugar well (frequent protein-based snacks, no sugar, chromium with meals, all may be helpful). > You know your advice about 1 day of ALA struck a chord. 3 yrs ago > my copper levels were 110. They're probably alot higher now. About > a month ago I did a round of ala. Anyway, 1 day of ALA was great! > But after the 2nd and 3rd day it went downhill and the day or so > after off round, I was a nervous/emotional wreck. > > So maybe if I just do 1 full day of ALA, that will be ok?? It was a > very good day. Would love to have that again! Sorry - I was not clear. What I meant was a person with a copper level over 125 would want to do *on average* 1 day on ALA for every 3 days off. However, it is still recommended to do rounds no less than three days long! You need to do minimum three days so your blood level gets up to a steady level and stays there for a while. Three days is the minimum round length that Andy recommends. I would suggest lowering the dose from what you used before. This will reduce the side effects. Also adding DMSA with the ALA can reduce side effects. For me the DMSA is essential. People are different, though, and you will have to see what is best for you. Sorry - I don't want to make things seem complicated again. I do feel working out some of these basic things like which chelator (or combo) is best for you, the best dosage for you, and how to manage your ongoing pre-chelation symptoms takes some experimentation. As to your comment that your copper level is probably higher now, it is hard to say. The level can vary somewhat (up or down) over time. If you have not done a recent hair test, though, I would base your ALA use on what the copper level was at that time. -- > Thanks again, > > Val > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 > > > , > > thank you so much again. It's so nice to get real answers without > forking over hundreds of dollars! > > I've calmed down since the last post. I ate something and my HC > kicked in. When my adrenals were in bad shape, this was a significant issue for me. I felt dramatically better when I managed my blood sugar well (frequent protein-based snacks, no sugar, chromium with meals, all may be helpful). > You know your advice about 1 day of ALA struck a chord. 3 yrs ago > my copper levels were 110. They're probably alot higher now. About > a month ago I did a round of ala. Anyway, 1 day of ALA was great! > But after the 2nd and 3rd day it went downhill and the day or so > after off round, I was a nervous/emotional wreck. > > So maybe if I just do 1 full day of ALA, that will be ok?? It was a > very good day. Would love to have that again! Sorry - I was not clear. What I meant was a person with a copper level over 125 would want to do *on average* 1 day on ALA for every 3 days off. However, it is still recommended to do rounds no less than three days long! You need to do minimum three days so your blood level gets up to a steady level and stays there for a while. Three days is the minimum round length that Andy recommends. I would suggest lowering the dose from what you used before. This will reduce the side effects. Also adding DMSA with the ALA can reduce side effects. For me the DMSA is essential. People are different, though, and you will have to see what is best for you. Sorry - I don't want to make things seem complicated again. I do feel working out some of these basic things like which chelator (or combo) is best for you, the best dosage for you, and how to manage your ongoing pre-chelation symptoms takes some experimentation. As to your comment that your copper level is probably higher now, it is hard to say. The level can vary somewhat (up or down) over time. If you have not done a recent hair test, though, I would base your ALA use on what the copper level was at that time. -- > Thanks again, > > Val > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 > > > , > > thank you so much again. It's so nice to get real answers without > forking over hundreds of dollars! > > I've calmed down since the last post. I ate something and my HC > kicked in. When my adrenals were in bad shape, this was a significant issue for me. I felt dramatically better when I managed my blood sugar well (frequent protein-based snacks, no sugar, chromium with meals, all may be helpful). > You know your advice about 1 day of ALA struck a chord. 3 yrs ago > my copper levels were 110. They're probably alot higher now. About > a month ago I did a round of ala. Anyway, 1 day of ALA was great! > But after the 2nd and 3rd day it went downhill and the day or so > after off round, I was a nervous/emotional wreck. > > So maybe if I just do 1 full day of ALA, that will be ok?? It was a > very good day. Would love to have that again! Sorry - I was not clear. What I meant was a person with a copper level over 125 would want to do *on average* 1 day on ALA for every 3 days off. However, it is still recommended to do rounds no less than three days long! You need to do minimum three days so your blood level gets up to a steady level and stays there for a while. Three days is the minimum round length that Andy recommends. I would suggest lowering the dose from what you used before. This will reduce the side effects. Also adding DMSA with the ALA can reduce side effects. For me the DMSA is essential. People are different, though, and you will have to see what is best for you. Sorry - I don't want to make things seem complicated again. I do feel working out some of these basic things like which chelator (or combo) is best for you, the best dosage for you, and how to manage your ongoing pre-chelation symptoms takes some experimentation. As to your comment that your copper level is probably higher now, it is hard to say. The level can vary somewhat (up or down) over time. If you have not done a recent hair test, though, I would base your ALA use on what the copper level was at that time. -- > Thanks again, > > Val > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2006 Report Share Posted November 8, 2006 It is confusing at first. As you read more and get less toxic it starts to make sense. Over the long haul, the big picture, it is far less damaging to remove the metals than to leave them in there. There are so many diseases that can happen later on if you stay toxic. Cancer and Alzheimers' being a few. Even lead is associated with gout, and heart disease. So in essence, removal is better. You don't have to support hormones unless you need it. You can try a few rounds and see. Unless you adrenals are already fried like mine were. I still did rounds and started on Adrenal Cortex extract. After seeing improvements I added a thyroid support product and continue to see improvement..while still chelating. There can be side effects, but I have been able to avoid most of them by following the proper supplements listed by Andy for chelation. Yes, you will not like waking up at night. No one dose. But it par for the course, and after a while the payoffs start to come in and you don't care about losing some sleep. You might want to try a bit of dmsa first to get some copper out. And also the mineral supplements he recommends at the doses recommended will help with copper. High copper is sometimes the result of mercury. And reduce exposures to copper elsewhere. The neutrophil problem can occur with dmps or any chelator. It is not super common either but can be reversed and dealt with. Any immune stressor can lower neutrophils. Immune support is good for this. It is hard to wait for hormones to regulate. They never will regulate perfectly if you are metal toxic. That is why most of us are chelating along side it. Many times side effects of chelation are due to improper supplements, improper dosing/timing etc. I have been chelating my 4 year old with dmsa/ala and he has done excellent. He is on all the supplements listed by Andy, yeast treatment, and the dosing/timing by Andy. No side effects for him. My daughter has had minimal effects which are usually due to her not taking enough vitamin C or forgetting her anti yeast pills. I have not had any trouble with dmsa yet. ALA I have to keep it really low. But sometimes you need many rounds of dmsa to lower body metals before you can add ala. Everyone is different. Yes, pulling, redistributing a bit, then pulling more. It is that homeostasis thingy. Remove some metals from the blood, and the body dumps some out of storage. Remove that newly freed metal, and the body dumps some more out of storage. This process keeps repeating until you have almost or none left. But it is a slow steady process that takes time and patience. Thus the slow/low protocol. Hope this helps clear things a bit. > > > It's my understanding that supporting fried adrenals/thyroid is > necessary while chelating. Also, if you have copper problems, you > can't really use ala? But if you have mercury in your brain , you > have to use ala, right? So, andy says go ahead and use ala anyway? > Also, dmsa can cause problems with neutraphils or whatever they're > called.? > > I'm just finding that this chelation stuff is waaaay more > complicated than I thought. Also, how does chelation affect balancing > your hormones with HC and Armour.?? I know adrenal/thyroid stuff > takes awhile (months, years?) but I don't want to wait that long to > chelate. So, how do you find the right balance for Armour/HC while > you're chelating mercury and experiencing all these side- > effects Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 > You might want to try a bit of dmsa first to get some copper out. - I am interested in this having too much copper myself. Does DMSA remove copper? I havent seen anywhere yet that it does. Also how does mercury cause copper levels to elevate? Is this due to mineral derangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 > You might want to try a bit of dmsa first to get some copper out. - I am interested in this having too much copper myself. Does DMSA remove copper? I havent seen anywhere yet that it does. Also how does mercury cause copper levels to elevate? Is this due to mineral derangement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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