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Adrenal Burnout Imminent

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>

> > > There is no sleep disturbance, except he can sleep for long and deep

> > > without waking and is often tired. No issues with eating protein, no

> > > digestive disturbances or low blood pressure, or shaking with stress

> > etc.

> > Of ALL of those you mention above the ONLY one that I have and have

> > had is the low blood pressure. I am the ultimate adrenal burnout

> > case........

>

> Dean: I see. I though that insomnia was one of the definites for low

> cortisol levels from adrenal exhaustion. I also though frequent

infections

> were common, but I guess you can't have all the symptoms.

>

Apparently insomnia is common with adrenal insufficiency. It is one

symptom I have never, ever had a problem with.

I have had the problem with frequent infections and difficulty shaking

infections.

I have reached the point where I can not respond to stress at all

(although I have discovered taking extra cortef helps) but I don't

shake with stress - I get emotional, can't think, and then panic.

If you look at this chapter, these authors list the frequency of

various symptoms in 200 people with what they call hypoadrenocorticism.

http://www.fred.net/slowup/tint01.html

J

btw, I finally have my hair test scanned and will mail it to you, just

for fun ;)

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>

>

> > I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing

> > with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due

> > to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot

> > myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We

> > supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the

> > natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the

> > prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what

> > you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is

> > good with interpreting them.

>

> Kai: I have contacted several health shops here in South Africa and am

> unable to get Lithium. The only form they have it on comes in a product

that

> contains every trace element - but in small quantities and it would be

> impossible to know how much is needed.

> It is a good idea and I wish I had the option. Lack of finances keep me

from

> ordering it online, but should the opportunity present I will do so.

> Thanks,

> Kai

>

>

>

>

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>

>

> > I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing

> > with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due

> > to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot

> > myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We

> > supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the

> > natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the

> > prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what

> > you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is

> > good with interpreting them.

>

> Kai: I have contacted several health shops here in South Africa and am

> unable to get Lithium. The only form they have it on comes in a product

that

> contains every trace element - but in small quantities and it would be

> impossible to know how much is needed.

> It is a good idea and I wish I had the option. Lack of finances keep me

from

> ordering it online, but should the opportunity present I will do so.

> Thanks,

> Kai

>

>

>

>

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>

>

> > I just looked at your hair test. have you thought of supplementing

> > with lithium orotate for a bit? Some of your irritation can be due

> > to abnormally low lithium. Which happens with mercury poisoning. Bot

> > myself and my mercury kid showed up with no lithium as well. We

> > supplement it only a few times a week. We are talking about the

> > natural lithium you get at the HFS. This is not the same as the

> > prescription. It is not harmful to use, and it only replaces what

> > you need anyway. should look at this hair test. She is

> > good with interpreting them.

>

> Kai: I have contacted several health shops here in South Africa and am

> unable to get Lithium. The only form they have it on comes in a product

that

> contains every trace element - but in small quantities and it would be

> impossible to know how much is needed.

> It is a good idea and I wish I had the option. Lack of finances keep me

from

> ordering it online, but should the opportunity present I will do so.

> Thanks,

> Kai

>

>

>

>

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>

> > Are you using adrenal cortex extract or just adrenal glandular? And

> > if so, how much or how often per day are you taking it.

> I am taking an Adrenal Glandular - the whole gland - not an adrenal cortex

> extract. That is the only thing I can get in South Africa. They stop

Isocort

> and Armour (Desiccated Glandular) at customs - so this is the best I can

do.

> I take 200mg 3 x per day. They say it provides the peptide chains etc to

> rebuild my adrenals. I don't feel any obvious good effects from it, but it

> feel like I need it on a subtle level and don't want to stop.

> After all your advice it seems Hydrocortisone is the way to go for me.

Thank

> you. I'll have to figure out other ways to lower my adrenaline and thyroid

> levels. But I'm assuming that the chelation and Hydrocortisone may help

with

> that anyway.

> I also

>

> > You can also do the saliva test to see which hormones are out of

> > whack. But your symptoms fit what we were seeing with adrenal

> > fatigue.

>

> Yes. Sadly the only option we have here takes 7 weeks to get a result and

is

> out of my reach financially. I am exploring other options, but at this

stage

> can only go on symptoms. The whole illness plus supplements exhausts my

> options a lot.

>

> Thanks for your advice it has been most helpful.

> Kai

>

>

>

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Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

> Dear List,

>

> I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I

tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it

- was dysfunctional for basic daily chores.

>

> My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have

episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious,

worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals.

This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I

can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have

been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now

45 years

>

> I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but

really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a

Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was

considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days

every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that

they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know

I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I

need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate.

>

> I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal

glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione

pathway in my liver.

>

> So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals

benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message

through to my adrenals to back off.

ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's

description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline

and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca

down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up

and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't

so high.

If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam

looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into

consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The

hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my

case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be

corrected was by surgery. That's just one example.

KAI - , what does this surgery involve?

To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making

insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is

needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking

physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down

and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological

doses) will help with healing.

I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I

would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The

symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome,

periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills.

The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is

a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements,

meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun,

walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can

generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge

amount of control over, although I am working on it.

KAI - I also find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I

sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over. Thanks for all your

good advice and I will make use of it. Always feels better if you know you're

not the only one with a certain problem and that there's hope.

Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

KAI - How big is the possibility that Hair Tests can be " switched " . Has

anybody else experienced this?

I also know that here in South Africa we have low levels, if any, selenium,

Magnesium and Zinc. I will look into the Uranium issue, thanks.

At the moment I am doing my first round of 33mg DMSA and I feel rather well.

I don't have regular internet access so I apologise for not always responding

quickly. Thanks for Dean helping me out in that regard.

I do appreciate all your advice and suggestions on the list as it is very

useful. Thank you very much!

J

> I am Hair Test 1 on

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

> I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated.

>

> Thanks for ANY suggestions

> Kai

>

>

>

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Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

> Dear List,

>

> I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I

tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it

- was dysfunctional for basic daily chores.

>

> My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have

episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious,

worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals.

This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I

can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have

been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now

45 years

>

> I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but

really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a

Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was

considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days

every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that

they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know

I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I

need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate.

>

> I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal

glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione

pathway in my liver.

>

> So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals

benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message

through to my adrenals to back off.

ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's

description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline

and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca

down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up

and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't

so high.

If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam

looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into

consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The

hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my

case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be

corrected was by surgery. That's just one example.

KAI - , what does this surgery involve?

To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making

insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is

needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking

physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down

and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological

doses) will help with healing.

I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I

would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The

symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome,

periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills.

The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is

a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements,

meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun,

walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can

generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge

amount of control over, although I am working on it.

KAI - I also find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I

sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over. Thanks for all your

good advice and I will make use of it. Always feels better if you know you're

not the only one with a certain problem and that there's hope.

Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

KAI - How big is the possibility that Hair Tests can be " switched " . Has

anybody else experienced this?

I also know that here in South Africa we have low levels, if any, selenium,

Magnesium and Zinc. I will look into the Uranium issue, thanks.

At the moment I am doing my first round of 33mg DMSA and I feel rather well.

I don't have regular internet access so I apologise for not always responding

quickly. Thanks for Dean helping me out in that regard.

I do appreciate all your advice and suggestions on the list as it is very

useful. Thank you very much!

J

> I am Hair Test 1 on

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

> I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated.

>

> Thanks for ANY suggestions

> Kai

>

>

>

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Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

> Dear List,

>

> I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I

tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it

- was dysfunctional for basic daily chores.

>

> My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have

episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious,

worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals.

This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I

can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have

been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now

45 years

>

> I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but

really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a

Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was

considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days

every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that

they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol. I know

I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens, so I

need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to chelate.

>

> I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal

glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione

pathway in my liver.

>

> So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals

benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message

through to my adrenals to back off.

ok, this one has me real confused! Your symptoms sound like Andy's

description of the adrenals being 'shot', making too much adrenaline

and not enough cortisol, and I would expect the K and Na up, Mg and Ca

down picture on the hair test. But the hair test shows Na, K, Ca up

and Mg sort of down. I guess that would sort of fit if the Ca wasn't

so high.

If I was you I would ask my doctor to give me a thorough medical exam

looking for any health problems that may need to be taken into

consideration. For example, I had hyperparathyroidism. The

hyperparathyroidism might have been 'caused' by the mercury but in my

case it had developed to the point where the only way it could be

corrected was by surgery. That's just one example.

KAI - , what does this surgery involve?

To sort of answer your question, if your adrenals are making

insufficient cortisol (or the cortisol isn't getting to where it is

needed) and they are also making too much adrenaline, taking

physiological doses of cortisol will help the adrenals to calm down

and take a rest during chelation. The cortisol (in physiological

doses) will help with healing.

I have been taking physiological cortisol for 3 years. Without it I

would be horizontal 24/7. There was no other option for me. The

symptoms that you mention of " highly strung, anxious, worrisome,

periods of exhaustion " pretty much vanish as soon as I take my pills.

The other things that will really help the adrenaline rushes (this is

a big problem for me) are very strict diet, some supplements,

meditation, relaxation, positive thinking, laughing, having fun,

walking, and those sorts of things. I find that my thoughts can

generate an adrenaline rush that I sometimes don't seem to have a huge

amount of control over, although I am working on it.

KAI - I also find that my thoughts can generate an adrenaline rush that I

sometimes don't seem to have a huge amount of control over. Thanks for all your

good advice and I will make use of it. Always feels better if you know you're

not the only one with a certain problem and that there's hope.

Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

KAI - How big is the possibility that Hair Tests can be " switched " . Has

anybody else experienced this?

I also know that here in South Africa we have low levels, if any, selenium,

Magnesium and Zinc. I will look into the Uranium issue, thanks.

At the moment I am doing my first round of 33mg DMSA and I feel rather well.

I don't have regular internet access so I apologise for not always responding

quickly. Thanks for Dean helping me out in that regard.

I do appreciate all your advice and suggestions on the list as it is very

useful. Thank you very much!

J

> I am Hair Test 1 on

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

> I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated.

>

> Thanks for ANY suggestions

> Kai

>

>

>

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee. There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo. He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

KAI - What you have said Dean, describes my situation perfectly. Regarding the

red skin flare-up on my neck, I would think that it started appearing when I had

my mercury fillings removed (my dentist didn't know at the time ,neither did I,

that there was a certain protocol to it. in fact he didn't think it was even

neccessary to take them out as he thought they were not harmful) That was about

8 years ago and my neck has just slowly gotten more red. Only since I started

chelating did I see slight improvement at times, especially on while on a round,

and then on an off round it becomes redder again . But there is no consistancy

in the pattern.

Thanks for any advice, KAI

Dean

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee. There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo. He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

KAI - What you have said Dean, describes my situation perfectly. Regarding the

red skin flare-up on my neck, I would think that it started appearing when I had

my mercury fillings removed (my dentist didn't know at the time ,neither did I,

that there was a certain protocol to it. in fact he didn't think it was even

neccessary to take them out as he thought they were not harmful) That was about

8 years ago and my neck has just slowly gotten more red. Only since I started

chelating did I see slight improvement at times, especially on while on a round,

and then on an off round it becomes redder again . But there is no consistancy

in the pattern.

Thanks for any advice, KAI

Dean

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Re: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

> Another possibility is that maybe your hairtest got mixed up at the

> lab. I have 2 tests from DDI, one that fits me and one that totally

> doesn't. The only reasonable conclusion is that DDI goofed with the

> one that doesn't. Didn't Dean say that most of the people in SA had

> highish Uranium? and on this test yours is way low.... hmmmmm

Everybody that has had a test in South Africa so far has been low in

selenium, germanium and molybdenum. It seems our soils are deficient in

these minerals. It has been known that we have almost no magnesium and zinc

either. Perhaps one of the reasons for the HIV epidemic. We do not have

volcanic soils here that are rich in nutrients.

Kai's test does fit him I think. He seems to be running on a treadmill of

life with the adrenals pumping out adrenaline, DHEA and possibly even too

much cortisol. The suggestion of taking cortisol to calm 'hyper-active'

adrenals is interesting. I thought it was only used when you are

'hypo-adrenal' initially. But the cortisol would have a bio-feedback

mechanism to slow production from the adrenals if used in sufficient

quantities, perhaps higher that physiological doses. I wonder if this is an

appropriate case for a taper. Does mention tapers? Or use the low

dose and see how he gets on.

Kai has said he has no problem handling stressful situation. He spikes his

adrenaline very high (his Na/Mg ration is 13.88 which is super-high

indicating massive adrenaline output), but his cortisol levels seems to be

able to match it, at least at the time of the stressful event. No low blood

sugar issues, no shaking etc. He has very deep sleep, but the highs come

with consistent crashes. He also craves sugar and coffee. There is a

possibility of Hashimotos, with his thyroid having alternating periods of

hyper vs. hypo. He also has a reddening of the skin on the throat area,

which is something I have seen with people who have hair tests in indicating

hyper-active adrenals (as is a stress situation). Does anybody else have

this reddening?

He is lean and muscular, and cold intolerant. I hope I've got this right

Kai?

KAI - What you have said Dean, describes my situation perfectly. Regarding the

red skin flare-up on my neck, I would think that it started appearing when I had

my mercury fillings removed (my dentist didn't know at the time ,neither did I,

that there was a certain protocol to it. in fact he didn't think it was even

neccessary to take them out as he thought they were not harmful) That was about

8 years ago and my neck has just slowly gotten more red. Only since I started

chelating did I see slight improvement at times, especially on while on a round,

and then on an off round it becomes redder again . But there is no consistancy

in the pattern.

Thanks for any advice, KAI

Dean

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Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

> Dear List,

>

> I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I

tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it

- was dysfunctional for basic daily chores.

>

> My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have

episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious,

worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals.

This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I

can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have

been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now

45 years

I sure do recognize this description. I was like this for many

years, too.

> I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but

really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a

Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was

considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days

every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that

they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol.

You could try this. I haven't done a taper, but some here have

done them. Andy gives instructions for this in Amalgam Illness.

I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens,

so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to

chelate.

>

> I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal

glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione

pathway in my liver.

Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder

if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out

your adrenals faster.

KAI - I do not feel any difference in taking the Adrenal glandular, I take

250mg three times a day.I wonder if thyroid glandular then is a goos idea, also

I take630mg twice a day.?

> So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals

benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message

through to my adrenals to back off.

This may reduce cortisol production, but I don't know about

adrenaline. 's reply suggests that long term use does

not reduce adrenaline for her, so I don't think a taper would

either.

I like all her suggestions for stress reduction - these are

wonderful ideas for mercury poisoned people. You need to try

to train your body to turn off the stress response. It will

keep getting turned back on due to the biochemical problems,

but if you know how to mitigate that it will help a lot. Deep

breathing is another idea that may help. Also, yoga, tai chi,

qigong. Slow, calming activities.

I don't know anything to take that will directly reduce

adrenaline production. I think it may really be a question

of minimizing the triggers.

--

> I am Hair Test 1 on

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

> I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated.

>

> Thanks for ANY suggestions

> Kai

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Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

> Dear List,

>

> I have been chelating for 7 months now on DMSA 33mg abut round 18. I

tried ALA for some time (3 rounds at 12.5mg) and could not tolerate it

- was dysfunctional for basic daily chores.

>

> My hair test shows that I have overactive adrenals. I seem to have

episodes of extreme tiredness. I am generally highly strung, anxious,

worrisome and have all symptoms associated with overstressed adrenals.

This is also coupled with periods of exhaustion, to the point that I

can never rely on my inconsitant energy levels. These symptoms have

been here since childhood (since my first amalgam at 11years). I'm now

45 years

I sure do recognize this description. I was like this for many

years, too.

> I am doing well on chelation (improved general wel-being), but

really would like to give my adrenals a break. I am unable to obtain a

Cortisol Saliva test at the moment to check the levels. I was

considering doing a Hydrocortisone taper as Andy suggest for 5 days

every few months, just to try and give the adrenals the message that

they can calm down, rather than low-dose long-term cortisol.

You could try this. I haven't done a taper, but some here have

done them. Andy gives instructions for this in Amalgam Illness.

I know I'm very close to burnout and have no support if this happens,

so I need to do something soon to help my adrenals while I continue to

chelate.

>

> I'm taking all the usual supplements as Andy suggests. Plus adrenal

glandular and thyroid glandular. And NAC to help my glutathione

pathway in my liver.

Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder

if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out

your adrenals faster.

KAI - I do not feel any difference in taking the Adrenal glandular, I take

250mg three times a day.I wonder if thyroid glandular then is a goos idea, also

I take630mg twice a day.?

> So in summary my question is: Can someone with overactive adrenals

benefit from taking cortisol for a time to try and get the message

through to my adrenals to back off.

This may reduce cortisol production, but I don't know about

adrenaline. 's reply suggests that long term use does

not reduce adrenaline for her, so I don't think a taper would

either.

I like all her suggestions for stress reduction - these are

wonderful ideas for mercury poisoned people. You need to try

to train your body to turn off the stress response. It will

keep getting turned back on due to the biochemical problems,

but if you know how to mitigate that it will help a lot. Deep

breathing is another idea that may help. Also, yoga, tai chi,

qigong. Slow, calming activities.

I don't know anything to take that will directly reduce

adrenaline production. I think it may really be a question

of minimizing the triggers.

--

> I am Hair Test 1 on

http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/healingnetwork/hairtest.html

> I'm certain that all my levels are higher than the hairtest indictated.

>

> Thanks for ANY suggestions

> Kai

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>

> Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder

> if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out

> your adrenals faster.

>

> KAI - I do not feel any difference in taking the Adrenal

glandular, I take 250mg three times a day.I wonder if thyroid

glandular then is a goos idea, also I take630mg twice a day.?

What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

situation or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positive

for you, I would drop them.

I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

thyroid, parathyroid?

My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being, feeling

very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear

normal and high-functioning to others while you were in this state.

You would feel good. I think you would have trouble sleeping.

Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would be

fairly short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or

perhaps more irritability. The surge would give you some

functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel

as good. Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps

only if this happens at night or around when you go to bed.

These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over

time and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

differently.

I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago - it

was a bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it

was hard to make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit

anxious, but that was more a secondary reaction to my perception

that my body was out of control in some way. It was not like an

anxiety/panic attack. It was too much energy. I was probably

having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like

Seriphos or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the

problem is elevated adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated

cortisol and how high). Another thing that might help here are

anti-anxiety agents, either herbal or rx.

You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid.

You need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules,

as well as doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might

not show up in the hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and

not a constant thing. I think has posted before about how

to diagnose parathyroid - that should be available in the archives.

How is your blood sugar and your blood pressure? Any problems with

stomach acid?

--

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>

> Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder

> if taking too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out

> your adrenals faster.

>

> KAI - I do not feel any difference in taking the Adrenal

glandular, I take 250mg three times a day.I wonder if thyroid

glandular then is a goos idea, also I take630mg twice a day.?

What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

situation or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positive

for you, I would drop them.

I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

thyroid, parathyroid?

My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being, feeling

very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear

normal and high-functioning to others while you were in this state.

You would feel good. I think you would have trouble sleeping.

Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would be

fairly short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or

perhaps more irritability. The surge would give you some

functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel

as good. Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps

only if this happens at night or around when you go to bed.

These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over

time and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

differently.

I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago - it

was a bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it

was hard to make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit

anxious, but that was more a secondary reaction to my perception

that my body was out of control in some way. It was not like an

anxiety/panic attack. It was too much energy. I was probably

having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like

Seriphos or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the

problem is elevated adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated

cortisol and how high). Another thing that might help here are

anti-anxiety agents, either herbal or rx.

You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid.

You need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules,

as well as doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might

not show up in the hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and

not a constant thing. I think has posted before about how

to diagnose parathyroid - that should be available in the archives.

How is your blood sugar and your blood pressure? Any problems with

stomach acid?

--

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Guest guest

> > > Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if taking

too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals

faster.

What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the situation

or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positivefor you, I would drop

them.

> KAI: Oops I meant it has 100mg of Thyroid Glandular mixed with some other

glandulars all in one.

There is no obvious improvement. But my hope is that if they contain the

building blocks for the glands (and not hormones) I might not feel better

instantly but might if I keep on them for a while (it has only been a few

months) it will help my glands to heal.

> I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

thyroid, parathyroid?

> KAI: It is really a money issue and a lack of supportive doctor here.We

have to pay for every test ourselves. We don't have a lab in this country

thatcan even do a cortisol saliva test. One lab will take samples and send

it to London. But they don't even know you need four samples. I know Dean is

trying to see if we can send the samples to the US. But again the cost is

just unattainable with everything I am doing to get better. I don't have

money to waste and I can't think of a doctor anywhere that that it wouldn't

be a waste on. . Sadly. This list is the closest I have to that.

> > My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being, feeling

very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear normal and

high-functioning to others while you were in this state.You would feel good.

I think you would have trouble sleeping.

> KAI: Well, I guess that confirms it for me. Thank you for describing it in

feelings - that makes more sense to me.

> Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would befairly

short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or perhaps more

irritability. The surge would give you some

functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel as good.

Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps only if this

happens at night or around when you go to bed.

> KAI: This does sound more like me. I will make sure there is quite at

night and withdraw from people to ensure I don't encounter anything that

will set me off.

> These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over time

and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

differently.

> KAI: What would DHEA 'feel' like if low or high? If high does one feel

more sexual and if low you lose your libido?

> I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago - it was a

bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it was hard to

make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit anxious, but that was more

a secondary reaction to my perception that my body was out of control in

some way. It was not like an anxiety/panic attack. It was too much energy.

I was probably having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

> KAI: That doesn't seem to be my problem. I seem to gain energy from

stressful reactions to immediate situations that stimulate stress and then I

seem to ride the emotion for a long time - almost like my body can't break

down the adrenaline and it keeps circulating. My senses are sharpened in

stress and there is no panic. I also don't seem to have that revved up

constantly moving/compulsive hyperthyroid feeling that I have seen and heard

in others. I'm wondering whether the increased output in adrenaline might

by stimulating my thyroid to 'get a move on'. This also causes my adrenals

to make more cortisol, and DHEA (my libido is high to fine most of the time

so I assume I'm over-producing androgens too) to keep up with the pace. Then

I think my adrenals can't keep up with the cortisol output and I crash......

That is what it feels like. Is it possible that adrenaline can drive the

thyroid faster and intermittently?

> If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like Seriphos

or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the problem is elevated

adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated cortisol

and how high). Another thing that might help here are anti-anxiety agents,

either herbal or rx

> KAI: Yes, I will try some of these.

> You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid. You

need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules, as well as

doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might not show up in the

hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and not a constant thing. I

think has posted before about how to diagnose parathyroid - that

should be available in the archives. How is your blood sugar and your blood

pressure? Any problems with stomach acid?

> KAI The Ca/Mg on the hair test is 22.6 indicating that blood sugar is

not perfectly stabilised (Dr says 6.67 is optimal and anything above

12 tends towards hypoglycaemia and diabetes). I can get sugar cravings and

am sure I have some carbohydrate intolerance. I spoke to a few people who

were hyperthyroid and they suggested that they needed to 'eat constantly'

assumedly to keep fuelling a metabolism spinning out of control with too

much thyroid hormone. Usually coupled with hypoadrenal issues meaning low

blood sugar and the need to eat. In fact I have almost no appetite a lot of

the time. This leads me to believe that the adrenaline remove the appetite.

I have high HCL production and no digestion problems.

I guess the only way to be sure is to get myself tested.

Now how does one test adrenaline levels

Thank you for your valuable input.

Kai

> --

>

>

>

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I've managed to totally confuse myself reading these posts, all due to my

fault, but I need something clarified.

If you give phosphatidylserine because someone has high cortisol (gains

weight on stomach, but not arms and legs) does this have anything to do with

whether you give adrenal cortex extract?

Or does effect does ACE have on cortisol?

Thanks,

Fw: Re: Adrenal Burnout Imminent

>

>> > > Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if

> taking

> too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals

> faster.

> What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

> situation

> or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positivefor you, I would drop

> them.

>

>> KAI: Oops I meant it has 100mg of Thyroid Glandular mixed with some

>> other

> glandulars all in one.

> There is no obvious improvement. But my hope is that if they contain the

> building blocks for the glands (and not hormones) I might not feel better

> instantly but might if I keep on them for a while (it has only been a few

> months) it will help my glands to heal.

>

>> I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

> thyroid, parathyroid?

>

>> KAI: It is really a money issue and a lack of supportive doctor here.We

> have to pay for every test ourselves. We don't have a lab in this country

> thatcan even do a cortisol saliva test. One lab will take samples and send

> it to London. But they don't even know you need four samples. I know Dean

> is

> trying to see if we can send the samples to the US. But again the cost is

> just unattainable with everything I am doing to get better. I don't have

> money to waste and I can't think of a doctor anywhere that that it

> wouldn't

> be a waste on. . Sadly. This list is the closest I have to that.

>

>> > My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being, feeling

> very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear normal

> and

> high-functioning to others while you were in this state.You would feel

> good.

> I think you would have trouble sleeping.

>

>> KAI: Well, I guess that confirms it for me. Thank you for describing it

>> in

> feelings - that makes more sense to me.

>

>> Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would befairly

> short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or perhaps more

> irritability. The surge would give you some

> functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel as

> good.

> Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps only if this

> happens at night or around when you go to bed.

>

>> KAI: This does sound more like me. I will make sure there is quite at

> night and withdraw from people to ensure I don't encounter anything that

> will set me off.

>

>> These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over time

> and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

> I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

> differently.

>

>> KAI: What would DHEA 'feel' like if low or high? If high does one feel

> more sexual and if low you lose your libido?

>

>> I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago - it was

>> a

> bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it was hard to

> make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit anxious, but that was

> more

> a secondary reaction to my perception that my body was out of control in

> some way. It was not like an anxiety/panic attack. It was too much

> energy.

> I was probably having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

>

>> KAI: That doesn't seem to be my problem. I seem to gain energy from

> stressful reactions to immediate situations that stimulate stress and then

> I

> seem to ride the emotion for a long time - almost like my body can't break

> down the adrenaline and it keeps circulating. My senses are sharpened in

> stress and there is no panic. I also don't seem to have that revved up

> constantly moving/compulsive hyperthyroid feeling that I have seen and

> heard

> in others. I'm wondering whether the increased output in adrenaline might

> by stimulating my thyroid to 'get a move on'. This also causes my adrenals

> to make more cortisol, and DHEA (my libido is high to fine most of the

> time

> so I assume I'm over-producing androgens too) to keep up with the pace.

> Then

> I think my adrenals can't keep up with the cortisol output and I

> crash......

> That is what it feels like. Is it possible that adrenaline can drive the

> thyroid faster and intermittently?

>

> > If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like Seriphos

> or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the problem is elevated

> adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

> sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated cortisol

> and how high). Another thing that might help here are anti-anxiety

> agents,

> either herbal or rx

>

>> KAI: Yes, I will try some of these.

>

> > You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid. You

> need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules, as well as

> doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might not show up in the

> hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and not a constant thing. I

> think has posted before about how to diagnose parathyroid - that

> should be available in the archives. How is your blood sugar and your

> blood

> pressure? Any problems with stomach acid?

>

>> KAI The Ca/Mg on the hair test is 22.6 indicating that blood sugar is

> not perfectly stabilised (Dr says 6.67 is optimal and anything

> above

> 12 tends towards hypoglycaemia and diabetes). I can get sugar cravings and

> am sure I have some carbohydrate intolerance. I spoke to a few people who

> were hyperthyroid and they suggested that they needed to 'eat constantly'

> assumedly to keep fuelling a metabolism spinning out of control with too

> much thyroid hormone. Usually coupled with hypoadrenal issues meaning low

> blood sugar and the need to eat. In fact I have almost no appetite a lot

> of

> the time. This leads me to believe that the adrenaline remove the

> appetite.

> I have high HCL production and no digestion problems.

> I guess the only way to be sure is to get myself tested.

> Now how does one test adrenaline levels

> Thank you for your valuable input.

> Kai

>

>> --

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

>

>

> > > > Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking

enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if

taking

> too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals

> faster.

> What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

situation

> or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positivefor you, I would drop

> them.

>

> > KAI: Oops I meant it has 100mg of Thyroid Glandular mixed with

some other

> glandulars all in one.

> There is no obvious improvement. But my hope is that if they contain the

> building blocks for the glands (and not hormones) I might not feel

better

> instantly but might if I keep on them for a while (it has only been

a few

> months) it will help my glands to heal.

If you're sure they haven't worsened anything, then it shouldn't

hurt to keep taking them (except possibly in the wallet).

> > I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

> thyroid, parathyroid?

>

> > KAI: It is really a money issue and a lack of supportive doctor

here.We

> have to pay for every test ourselves. We don't have a lab in this

country

> thatcan even do a cortisol saliva test. One lab will take samples

and send

> it to London. But they don't even know you need four samples. I know

Dean is

> trying to see if we can send the samples to the US. But again the

cost is

> just unattainable with everything I am doing to get better. I don't have

> money to waste and I can't think of a doctor anywhere that that it

wouldn't

> be a waste on. . Sadly. This list is the closest I have to that.

> > > My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being,

feeling

> very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear

normal and

> high-functioning to others while you were in this state.You would

feel good.

> I think you would have trouble sleeping.

>

> > KAI: Well, I guess that confirms it for me. Thank you for

describing it in

> feelings - that makes more sense to me.

>

> > Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would

befairly

> short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or perhaps more

> irritability. The surge would give you some

> functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel

as good.

> Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps only if this

> happens at night or around when you go to bed.

>

> > KAI: This does sound more like me. I will make sure there is quite at

> night and withdraw from people to ensure I don't encounter anything that

> will set me off.

I'm a bit confused because you say here it sounds more like

adrenaline, but your description farther down sounds more like

elevated cortisol. (Of course, it is hard to be sure about any

of this.)

You may be putting out excess cortisol at some times and when

the adrenals are not able to keep that up, they push out

adrenaline to compensate for the lack of cortisol.

> > These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over

time

> and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

> I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

> differently.

>

> > KAI: What would DHEA 'feel' like if low or high? If high does one feel

> more sexual and if low you lose your libido?

I think high DHEA could increase libido. DHEA " feelings " would

be hard to distinguish from other hormones, since it could increase

production of various hormones.

> > I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago -

it was a

> bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it was

hard to

> make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit anxious, but that

was more

> a secondary reaction to my perception that my body was out of control in

> some way. It was not like an anxiety/panic attack. It was too much

energy.

> I was probably having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

>

> > KAI: That doesn't seem to be my problem. I seem to gain energy from

> stressful reactions to immediate situations that stimulate stress

and then I

> seem to ride the emotion for a long time - almost like my body

can't break

> down the adrenaline and it keeps circulating. My senses are sharpened in

> stress and there is no panic.

If the energy you gain under stress seems like a " good energy "

at least some of the time, if riding the emotion seems like

a nice ride while it lasts, and if there's really no anxiety

or panic, I think it's definitely high cortisol. It would

probably be hard to wind down sometimes, but sometimes the

" high " might suddenly give out and you would feel like you are

about to drop.

Adrenaline would not last so long, would not really feel that

good, typically would involve some sense of fear or anxiety,

or " stressed out " , maybe heart pounding, shakiness. Could tend

to sharpen your senses, but so would cortisol.

Of course your hair test says you are putting out lots of

adrenaline, but it sounds to me like your adrenals may

be making some cortisol, too. I think it's good you are

trying to catch this now before it gets worse.

I also don't seem to have that revved up

> constantly moving/compulsive hyperthyroid feeling that I have seen

and heard

> in others. I'm wondering whether the increased output in adrenaline

might

> by stimulating my thyroid to 'get a move on'. This also causes my

adrenals

> to make more cortisol, and DHEA (my libido is high to fine most of

the time

> so I assume I'm over-producing androgens too) to keep up with the

pace. Then

> I think my adrenals can't keep up with the cortisol output and I

crash......

> That is what it feels like. Is it possible that adrenaline can drive the

> thyroid faster and intermittently?

I'm not sure all of that makes sense. Adrenaline is made by the

adrenals. What happens in adrenal fatigue is the adrenal cortex

is less able to make cortisol, so adrenaline kicks in at times of

stress instead of cortisol. For some people, or at some stage of

adrenal fatigue, dhea production increases in an attempt to make

more hormones. That might lead to excess of some hormones at

times (such as cortisol or androgens) I'm not sure how the thyroid

fits into this picture.

> > If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like

Seriphos

> or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the problem is elevated

> adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

> sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated

cortisol

> and how high). Another thing that might help here are anti-anxiety

agents,

> either herbal or rx

>

> > KAI: Yes, I will try some of these.

>

> > You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid. You

> need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules, as well as

> doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might not show up

in the

> hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and not a constant thing. I

> think has posted before about how to diagnose parathyroid - that

> should be available in the archives. How is your blood sugar and

your blood

> pressure? Any problems with stomach acid?

>

> > KAI The Ca/Mg on the hair test is 22.6 indicating that blood

sugar is

> not perfectly stabilised (Dr says 6.67 is optimal and

anything above

> 12 tends towards hypoglycaemia and diabetes). I can get sugar

cravings and

> am sure I have some carbohydrate intolerance. I spoke to a few

people who

> were hyperthyroid and they suggested that they needed to 'eat

constantly'

> assumedly to keep fuelling a metabolism spinning out of control with too

> much thyroid hormone. Usually coupled with hypoadrenal issues

meaning low

> blood sugar and the need to eat. In fact I have almost no appetite

a lot of

> the time. This leads me to believe that the adrenaline remove the

appetite.

> I have high HCL production and no digestion problems.

Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

stomach acid. I was wondering if any of that applied to you.

You may have both low and high blood sugar. I think this is

like cortisol, and you can get spikes of blood sugar and then

crashing lows. Your adrenals are responsible for maintaining

a good blood sugar and they can't do that well when they are

struggling.

Hm - I wonder if some of your periods of having " too much

energy " could be elevated blood sugar?

> I guess the only way to be sure is to get myself tested.

> Now how does one test adrenaline levels

> Thank you for your valuable input.

> Kai

The only measure of adrenaline output I know of is the Na/Mg hair

ratio. I wish I knew how you could get a saliva test to check

cortisol, dhea, and perhaps other hormones. I think you will

have to try some things to see what works. You might want to

try a combo of an adaptogen like ashwagandha or ginseng, and

if you have times when you need help winding down you could

add some phos serine (seriphos).

--

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>

>

> > > > Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking

enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if

taking

> too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals

> faster.

> What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

situation

> or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positivefor you, I would drop

> them.

>

> > KAI: Oops I meant it has 100mg of Thyroid Glandular mixed with

some other

> glandulars all in one.

> There is no obvious improvement. But my hope is that if they contain the

> building blocks for the glands (and not hormones) I might not feel

better

> instantly but might if I keep on them for a while (it has only been

a few

> months) it will help my glands to heal.

If you're sure they haven't worsened anything, then it shouldn't

hurt to keep taking them (except possibly in the wallet).

> > I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

> thyroid, parathyroid?

>

> > KAI: It is really a money issue and a lack of supportive doctor

here.We

> have to pay for every test ourselves. We don't have a lab in this

country

> thatcan even do a cortisol saliva test. One lab will take samples

and send

> it to London. But they don't even know you need four samples. I know

Dean is

> trying to see if we can send the samples to the US. But again the

cost is

> just unattainable with everything I am doing to get better. I don't have

> money to waste and I can't think of a doctor anywhere that that it

wouldn't

> be a waste on. . Sadly. This list is the closest I have to that.

> > > My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being,

feeling

> very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear

normal and

> high-functioning to others while you were in this state.You would

feel good.

> I think you would have trouble sleeping.

>

> > KAI: Well, I guess that confirms it for me. Thank you for

describing it in

> feelings - that makes more sense to me.

>

> > Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would

befairly

> short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or perhaps more

> irritability. The surge would give you some

> functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel

as good.

> Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps only if this

> happens at night or around when you go to bed.

>

> > KAI: This does sound more like me. I will make sure there is quite at

> night and withdraw from people to ensure I don't encounter anything that

> will set me off.

I'm a bit confused because you say here it sounds more like

adrenaline, but your description farther down sounds more like

elevated cortisol. (Of course, it is hard to be sure about any

of this.)

You may be putting out excess cortisol at some times and when

the adrenals are not able to keep that up, they push out

adrenaline to compensate for the lack of cortisol.

> > These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over

time

> and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

> I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

> differently.

>

> > KAI: What would DHEA 'feel' like if low or high? If high does one feel

> more sexual and if low you lose your libido?

I think high DHEA could increase libido. DHEA " feelings " would

be hard to distinguish from other hormones, since it could increase

production of various hormones.

> > I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago -

it was a

> bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it was

hard to

> make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit anxious, but that

was more

> a secondary reaction to my perception that my body was out of control in

> some way. It was not like an anxiety/panic attack. It was too much

energy.

> I was probably having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

>

> > KAI: That doesn't seem to be my problem. I seem to gain energy from

> stressful reactions to immediate situations that stimulate stress

and then I

> seem to ride the emotion for a long time - almost like my body

can't break

> down the adrenaline and it keeps circulating. My senses are sharpened in

> stress and there is no panic.

If the energy you gain under stress seems like a " good energy "

at least some of the time, if riding the emotion seems like

a nice ride while it lasts, and if there's really no anxiety

or panic, I think it's definitely high cortisol. It would

probably be hard to wind down sometimes, but sometimes the

" high " might suddenly give out and you would feel like you are

about to drop.

Adrenaline would not last so long, would not really feel that

good, typically would involve some sense of fear or anxiety,

or " stressed out " , maybe heart pounding, shakiness. Could tend

to sharpen your senses, but so would cortisol.

Of course your hair test says you are putting out lots of

adrenaline, but it sounds to me like your adrenals may

be making some cortisol, too. I think it's good you are

trying to catch this now before it gets worse.

I also don't seem to have that revved up

> constantly moving/compulsive hyperthyroid feeling that I have seen

and heard

> in others. I'm wondering whether the increased output in adrenaline

might

> by stimulating my thyroid to 'get a move on'. This also causes my

adrenals

> to make more cortisol, and DHEA (my libido is high to fine most of

the time

> so I assume I'm over-producing androgens too) to keep up with the

pace. Then

> I think my adrenals can't keep up with the cortisol output and I

crash......

> That is what it feels like. Is it possible that adrenaline can drive the

> thyroid faster and intermittently?

I'm not sure all of that makes sense. Adrenaline is made by the

adrenals. What happens in adrenal fatigue is the adrenal cortex

is less able to make cortisol, so adrenaline kicks in at times of

stress instead of cortisol. For some people, or at some stage of

adrenal fatigue, dhea production increases in an attempt to make

more hormones. That might lead to excess of some hormones at

times (such as cortisol or androgens) I'm not sure how the thyroid

fits into this picture.

> > If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like

Seriphos

> or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the problem is elevated

> adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

> sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated

cortisol

> and how high). Another thing that might help here are anti-anxiety

agents,

> either herbal or rx

>

> > KAI: Yes, I will try some of these.

>

> > You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid. You

> need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules, as well as

> doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might not show up

in the

> hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and not a constant thing. I

> think has posted before about how to diagnose parathyroid - that

> should be available in the archives. How is your blood sugar and

your blood

> pressure? Any problems with stomach acid?

>

> > KAI The Ca/Mg on the hair test is 22.6 indicating that blood

sugar is

> not perfectly stabilised (Dr says 6.67 is optimal and

anything above

> 12 tends towards hypoglycaemia and diabetes). I can get sugar

cravings and

> am sure I have some carbohydrate intolerance. I spoke to a few

people who

> were hyperthyroid and they suggested that they needed to 'eat

constantly'

> assumedly to keep fuelling a metabolism spinning out of control with too

> much thyroid hormone. Usually coupled with hypoadrenal issues

meaning low

> blood sugar and the need to eat. In fact I have almost no appetite

a lot of

> the time. This leads me to believe that the adrenaline remove the

appetite.

> I have high HCL production and no digestion problems.

Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

stomach acid. I was wondering if any of that applied to you.

You may have both low and high blood sugar. I think this is

like cortisol, and you can get spikes of blood sugar and then

crashing lows. Your adrenals are responsible for maintaining

a good blood sugar and they can't do that well when they are

struggling.

Hm - I wonder if some of your periods of having " too much

energy " could be elevated blood sugar?

> I guess the only way to be sure is to get myself tested.

> Now how does one test adrenaline levels

> Thank you for your valuable input.

> Kai

The only measure of adrenaline output I know of is the Na/Mg hair

ratio. I wish I knew how you could get a saliva test to check

cortisol, dhea, and perhaps other hormones. I think you will

have to try some things to see what works. You might want to

try a combo of an adaptogen like ashwagandha or ginseng, and

if you have times when you need help winding down you could

add some phos serine (seriphos).

--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest guest

>

>

> > > > Does the adrenal glandular help at all? Are you taking

enough of

> it? Do you know you really need the thyroid glandular? I wonder if

taking

> too much thyroid glandular for your needs would burn out your adrenals

> faster.

> What about the thyroid glandular, does that improve or worsen the

situation

> or do nothing? If these are doing nothing positivefor you, I would drop

> them.

>

> > KAI: Oops I meant it has 100mg of Thyroid Glandular mixed with

some other

> glandulars all in one.

> There is no obvious improvement. But my hope is that if they contain the

> building blocks for the glands (and not hormones) I might not feel

better

> instantly but might if I keep on them for a while (it has only been

a few

> months) it will help my glands to heal.

If you're sure they haven't worsened anything, then it shouldn't

hurt to keep taking them (except possibly in the wallet).

> > I think you need to clarify what is elevated - cortisol, adrenaline,

> thyroid, parathyroid?

>

> > KAI: It is really a money issue and a lack of supportive doctor

here.We

> have to pay for every test ourselves. We don't have a lab in this

country

> thatcan even do a cortisol saliva test. One lab will take samples

and send

> it to London. But they don't even know you need four samples. I know

Dean is

> trying to see if we can send the samples to the US. But again the

cost is

> just unattainable with everything I am doing to get better. I don't have

> money to waste and I can't think of a doctor anywhere that that it

wouldn't

> be a waste on. . Sadly. This list is the closest I have to that.

> > > My experience of elevated cortisol is a sense of well-being,

feeling

> very " on " and functional, handling stress well. You would appear

normal and

> high-functioning to others while you were in this state.You would

feel good.

> I think you would have trouble sleeping.

>

> > KAI: Well, I guess that confirms it for me. Thank you for

describing it in

> feelings - that makes more sense to me.

>

> > Adrenaline would look a bit different. I think the surge would

befairly

> short-lived, there would be some anxiety/panic involved, or perhaps more

> irritability. The surge would give you some

> functionality, but it would (probably) not last and would not feel

as good.

> Again, I think you might have trouble sleeping, but perhaps only if this

> happens at night or around when you go to bed.

>

> > KAI: This does sound more like me. I will make sure there is quite at

> night and withdraw from people to ensure I don't encounter anything that

> will set me off.

I'm a bit confused because you say here it sounds more like

adrenaline, but your description farther down sounds more like

elevated cortisol. (Of course, it is hard to be sure about any

of this.)

You may be putting out excess cortisol at some times and when

the adrenals are not able to keep that up, they push out

adrenaline to compensate for the lack of cortisol.

> > These descriptions are based on how my experience has changed over

time

> and what I think was happening with my cortisol and adrenaline.

> I could be wrong about some of it, and others may experience these

> differently.

>

> > KAI: What would DHEA 'feel' like if low or high? If high does one feel

> more sexual and if low you lose your libido?

I think high DHEA could increase libido. DHEA " feelings " would

be hard to distinguish from other hormones, since it could increase

production of various hormones.

> > I may have had a short period of hyperthyroid several years ago -

it was a

> bit different. I felt revved and could not slow down, but it was

hard to

> make productive use of that energy. I felt a bit anxious, but that

was more

> a secondary reaction to my perception that my body was out of control in

> some way. It was not like an anxiety/panic attack. It was too much

energy.

> I was probably having trouble sleeping then, but can't recall.

>

> > KAI: That doesn't seem to be my problem. I seem to gain energy from

> stressful reactions to immediate situations that stimulate stress

and then I

> seem to ride the emotion for a long time - almost like my body

can't break

> down the adrenaline and it keeps circulating. My senses are sharpened in

> stress and there is no panic.

If the energy you gain under stress seems like a " good energy "

at least some of the time, if riding the emotion seems like

a nice ride while it lasts, and if there's really no anxiety

or panic, I think it's definitely high cortisol. It would

probably be hard to wind down sometimes, but sometimes the

" high " might suddenly give out and you would feel like you are

about to drop.

Adrenaline would not last so long, would not really feel that

good, typically would involve some sense of fear or anxiety,

or " stressed out " , maybe heart pounding, shakiness. Could tend

to sharpen your senses, but so would cortisol.

Of course your hair test says you are putting out lots of

adrenaline, but it sounds to me like your adrenals may

be making some cortisol, too. I think it's good you are

trying to catch this now before it gets worse.

I also don't seem to have that revved up

> constantly moving/compulsive hyperthyroid feeling that I have seen

and heard

> in others. I'm wondering whether the increased output in adrenaline

might

> by stimulating my thyroid to 'get a move on'. This also causes my

adrenals

> to make more cortisol, and DHEA (my libido is high to fine most of

the time

> so I assume I'm over-producing androgens too) to keep up with the

pace. Then

> I think my adrenals can't keep up with the cortisol output and I

crash......

> That is what it feels like. Is it possible that adrenaline can drive the

> thyroid faster and intermittently?

I'm not sure all of that makes sense. Adrenaline is made by the

adrenals. What happens in adrenal fatigue is the adrenal cortex

is less able to make cortisol, so adrenaline kicks in at times of

stress instead of cortisol. For some people, or at some stage of

adrenal fatigue, dhea production increases in an attempt to make

more hormones. That might lead to excess of some hormones at

times (such as cortisol or androgens) I'm not sure how the thyroid

fits into this picture.

> > If the problem is elevated cortisol, maybe try something like

Seriphos

> or Siberian ginseng. Could be very helpful. If the problem is elevated

> adrenaline, perhaps the idea of a taper makes

> sense (not sure, might depend on whether you also have elevated

cortisol

> and how high). Another thing that might help here are anti-anxiety

agents,

> either herbal or rx

>

> > KAI: Yes, I will try some of these.

>

> > You might want to get a good medical exam to check your thyroid. You

> need to be physically checked for goiter or thyroid nodules, as well as

> doing blood tests. I wonder if a thyroid problem might not show up

in the

> hair ratios if it is just episodes of hyper and not a constant thing. I

> think has posted before about how to diagnose parathyroid - that

> should be available in the archives. How is your blood sugar and

your blood

> pressure? Any problems with stomach acid?

>

> > KAI The Ca/Mg on the hair test is 22.6 indicating that blood

sugar is

> not perfectly stabilised (Dr says 6.67 is optimal and

anything above

> 12 tends towards hypoglycaemia and diabetes). I can get sugar

cravings and

> am sure I have some carbohydrate intolerance. I spoke to a few

people who

> were hyperthyroid and they suggested that they needed to 'eat

constantly'

> assumedly to keep fuelling a metabolism spinning out of control with too

> much thyroid hormone. Usually coupled with hypoadrenal issues

meaning low

> blood sugar and the need to eat. In fact I have almost no appetite

a lot of

> the time. This leads me to believe that the adrenaline remove the

appetite.

> I have high HCL production and no digestion problems.

Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

stomach acid. I was wondering if any of that applied to you.

You may have both low and high blood sugar. I think this is

like cortisol, and you can get spikes of blood sugar and then

crashing lows. Your adrenals are responsible for maintaining

a good blood sugar and they can't do that well when they are

struggling.

Hm - I wonder if some of your periods of having " too much

energy " could be elevated blood sugar?

> I guess the only way to be sure is to get myself tested.

> Now how does one test adrenaline levels

> Thank you for your valuable input.

> Kai

The only measure of adrenaline output I know of is the Na/Mg hair

ratio. I wish I knew how you could get a saliva test to check

cortisol, dhea, and perhaps other hormones. I think you will

have to try some things to see what works. You might want to

try a combo of an adaptogen like ashwagandha or ginseng, and

if you have times when you need help winding down you could

add some phos serine (seriphos).

--

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Guest guest

>

> Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

is the Na/Mg hair

> ratio.

>

> --

---------------------

Hi ,

What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is 4.57.

Thanks

H.

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Guest guest

>

> Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

is the Na/Mg hair

> ratio.

>

> --

---------------------

Hi ,

What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is 4.57.

Thanks

H.

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Guest guest

>

> Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

is the Na/Mg hair

> ratio.

>

> --

---------------------

Hi ,

What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is 4.57.

Thanks

H.

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Guest guest

> >

> > Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> > of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> > stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

> is the Na/Mg hair

> > ratio.

> >

> > --

> ---------------------

> Hi ,

>

> What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is

4.57.

>

> Thanks

> H.

Andy gives a range of 1-5 for Na/Mg. You are at the high end

of the range. The symptoms Andy gives for an elevated Na/Mg

are hyperactivity, anxiety, panic, and poor immune function.

The symptoms I mentioned above are from Dr. 's book,

and are based on hair tests from a different lab with different

ref range.

--

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Guest guest

> >

> > Dr. 's book says the high Na/Mg ratio can go with symptoms

> > of high blood pressure, high blood sugar, irritability, excess

> > stomach acid. .....> The only measure of adrenaline output I know of

> is the Na/Mg hair

> > ratio.

> >

> > --

> ---------------------

> Hi ,

>

> What number is considered a high ratio for Na/Mg. My Na/Mg ratio is

4.57.

>

> Thanks

> H.

Andy gives a range of 1-5 for Na/Mg. You are at the high end

of the range. The symptoms Andy gives for an elevated Na/Mg

are hyperactivity, anxiety, panic, and poor immune function.

The symptoms I mentioned above are from Dr. 's book,

and are based on hair tests from a different lab with different

ref range.

--

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