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Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response to Cheney incident

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Mike,

First off, they do NOT fly in bad weather, those multi-million dollar

limousines are for those days. Second, they have the most technologically

advanced equipment on board. Third, they have the absolute best helicopter

pilots in the world. Fourth, their maintenance schedules are strictly adhered

to and are probably well above the standards of any private air-medical service.

Lastly……they are Marines!

Tater

Mike wrote:

With regards to helicopter safety, when's the last time the Presidential

copter (or any for the white house staff) crashed? If they're so unsafe, why's

the government using them so often?

Mike :)

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

Mike,

First off, they do NOT fly in bad weather, those multi-million dollar

limousines are for those days. Second, they have the most technologically

advanced equipment on board. Third, they have the absolute best helicopter

pilots in the world. Fourth, their maintenance schedules are strictly adhered

to and are probably well above the standards of any private air-medical service.

Lastly……they are Marines!

Tater

Mike wrote:

With regards to helicopter safety, when's the last time the Presidential

copter (or any for the white house staff) crashed? If they're so unsafe, why's

the government using them so often?

Mike :)

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

VMH-1 (the Marine VIP Helicopter Squadron) had a loss with fatalities during

Bill Clinton's presidency. The aircraft was on a repositioning flight and (IIRC)

had a rotor failure. In addition to the crew of three, two USSS agents on the

Presidential protection detail were killed. Aside from a hard landing a couple

years ago, those were the only mishaps in the Squadron's 40+ year history.

Agreed, Tater, very fine pilots and crew...and Marines... indeed!

" E. Tate " wrote:

Mike,

First off, they do NOT fly in bad weather, those multi-million dollar

limousines are for those days. Second, they have the most technologically

advanced equipment on board. Third, they have the absolute best helicopter

pilots in the world. Fourth, their maintenance schedules are strictly adhered

to and are probably well above the standards of any private air-medical service.

Lastly……they are Marines!

Tater

Mike wrote:

With regards to helicopter safety, when's the last time the Presidential

copter (or any for the white house staff) crashed? If they're so unsafe, why's

the government using them so often?

" The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but

because he loves what is behind him. " - GK Chesterton

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Mail

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

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Guest guest

VMH-1 (the Marine VIP Helicopter Squadron) had a loss with fatalities during

Bill Clinton's presidency. The aircraft was on a repositioning flight and (IIRC)

had a rotor failure. In addition to the crew of three, two USSS agents on the

Presidential protection detail were killed. Aside from a hard landing a couple

years ago, those were the only mishaps in the Squadron's 40+ year history.

Agreed, Tater, very fine pilots and crew...and Marines... indeed!

" E. Tate " wrote:

Mike,

First off, they do NOT fly in bad weather, those multi-million dollar

limousines are for those days. Second, they have the most technologically

advanced equipment on board. Third, they have the absolute best helicopter

pilots in the world. Fourth, their maintenance schedules are strictly adhered

to and are probably well above the standards of any private air-medical service.

Lastly……they are Marines!

Tater

Mike wrote:

With regards to helicopter safety, when's the last time the Presidential

copter (or any for the white house staff) crashed? If they're so unsafe, why's

the government using them so often?

" The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but

because he loves what is behind him. " - GK Chesterton

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Mail

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

Share this post


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Share on other sites
Guest guest

VMH-1 (the Marine VIP Helicopter Squadron) had a loss with fatalities during

Bill Clinton's presidency. The aircraft was on a repositioning flight and (IIRC)

had a rotor failure. In addition to the crew of three, two USSS agents on the

Presidential protection detail were killed. Aside from a hard landing a couple

years ago, those were the only mishaps in the Squadron's 40+ year history.

Agreed, Tater, very fine pilots and crew...and Marines... indeed!

" E. Tate " wrote:

Mike,

First off, they do NOT fly in bad weather, those multi-million dollar

limousines are for those days. Second, they have the most technologically

advanced equipment on board. Third, they have the absolute best helicopter

pilots in the world. Fourth, their maintenance schedules are strictly adhered

to and are probably well above the standards of any private air-medical service.

Lastly……they are Marines!

Tater

Mike wrote:

With regards to helicopter safety, when's the last time the Presidential

copter (or any for the white house staff) crashed? If they're so unsafe, why's

the government using them so often?

" The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but

because he loves what is behind him. " - GK Chesterton

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Mail

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

Share this post


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Guest guest

Fact of the matter is, we make decisions based largely on

signs/symptoms. Medical facilities have a lot more diagnostic tests

at their disposal. X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, even blood work to name a few.

Not trying to jump on one side of the fence or the other, just noting

the facts.

Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Fact of the matter is, we make decisions based largely on

signs/symptoms. Medical facilities have a lot more diagnostic tests

at their disposal. X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, even blood work to name a few.

Not trying to jump on one side of the fence or the other, just noting

the facts.

Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Fact of the matter is, we make decisions based largely on

signs/symptoms. Medical facilities have a lot more diagnostic tests

at their disposal. X-rays, CT scans, MRIs, even blood work to name a few.

Not trying to jump on one side of the fence or the other, just noting

the facts.

Alfonso R. Ochoa

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

In this case the nearest level III did not have a

neurosurgeon on call where as the level III 30 miles

away did. the medics from the helicopter service know

that when we call it is a patient that needs the care

from the level III in Harlingen.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- " Bledsoe, DO "

wrote:

> Salavdor, how would helicopter transport helped your

> motorcycle accident

> patient? Would it have healed his spinal cord? Was

> there any treatment

> necessary that required transport where a few

> minutes makes a difference.

> There is a risk in everything, from typing on this

> computer to skydiving.

> You always have to measure the risk against any

> benefit. The risk of ground

> ambulance transport while real, is better that the

> risk of air ambulance

> transport. Even transport by donkey cart has

> risk-you have to measure them.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of salvador capuchino

> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:17 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper

> reports on EMS response

> to Cheney incident

>

>

>

> Good answer Henry. I agree. I would have flown him

> out as well considering that Armstrong is at least 1

> hour away from any hospital north or south. This is

> a

> trauma patient and as per RAC protocol the mechanism

> is significant enough to warrant a bird. Some

> medics

> from a particular service have been trained and

> taught

> that they can handle any call no matter how bad it

> is

> and that if you call a bird you are a wimp. That in

> my opinion is very wrong. Some of these guys have

> gone to work for a rural service and learned the

> hard

> way that you simply cannot think that way when you

> are

> in the middle of nowhere. When I used to work for

> that service a supervisor refused to allow me to fly

> out a teenager from a motorcycle accident at a dirt

> bike track. The kid had paralysis from the neck

> down

> after the bike landed on his back. Apparently the

> kid

> was thrown off the bike in the air. The location

> was

> at least 15-20 minutes from the nearest level III

> trauma center.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- Henry wrote:

>

> > Ok I have read all the post and will reply to

> Mike's

> > because it was the

> > last one I read. I will say up front that I would

> > have flown this

> > gentleman to the closest trauma center. Several

> > questions first.

> > 1. How many pellets in 7.5 or 8 bird shot?

> > 2. Can bird shot kill?

> > 3. Is a human hide tougher to penetrate than a

> bird,

> > rabbit ect...?

> >

> > Answer:

> > 1. A bunch

> > 2. Yea it can

> > 3. No it is not

> >

> > Even though this guy was conscious and talking I

> > would have assumed

> > immediately that the shot penetrated the chest

> > cavity. Which makes this

> > man shot multiple times in the chest and neck. The

> > only place this guy

> > needs to be is in a trauma center immediately.

> > Unless ground can get him

> > there before the helicopter including any wait

> time

> > for the bird then he

> > needs to go by helicopter.

> >

> > Multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and neck

> should

> > be reason enough

> > for any arm chair medic, doctor or lawyer to fly

> > this guy. I think if

> > this gentleman walks out of the hospital without

> any

> > problems he is a

> > very very lucky man. A littler closer or a few

> more

> > shot hitting vital

> > organs and this would have been a different story.

> > Everyone in

> > government is trying to down play this incident in

> > regards to the

> > patients condition for obvious reasons. They can

> > down play it all they

> > want but it was very serious.

> >

> > Lets talk about hunting today. I have been a bird

> > hunter since I was big

> > enough to pick up a shot gun and pull the trigger.

> > Safety has always

> > been a big concern and I preach it to my son who

> is

> > a better bird hunter

> > than I am. I have been hunting for at least 40

> years

> > and have seen minor

> > lapses in safety for whatever reason or another.

> > None of those have been

> > because the other hunter did not have safety on

> his

> > mind while hunting.

> > Hell that why they call them hunting accidents. If

> > not they would be

> > called hunting murder or hunting blow your ass up.

> >

> > I would bet that the Vice President (even though

> he

> > is a republican) had

> > every intention of being a safe hunter that day.

> >

> > At the end of the day here is what you do:

> >

> > Fly the patient when necessary and practice safe

> > hunting.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > PS. What I would like to see occur on this list

> > server is less dogging

> > of the helicopter issue and more instruction and

> or

> > education on when it

> > is appropriate to fly. Dr. B, Gene and others that

> > people look up to, if

> > we keep going down this path younger medics that

> > read your post may

> > interpret that helicopters have no place in EMS

> and

> > should not be used.

> > I firmly believe that they have a place and

> provide

> > a service that we

> > can take advantage of when it is necessary. Kinda

> > like the baby and bath

> > water thing.

> >

> >

> > hatfield wrote:

> >

> > > Because he is 78, he needs to be flown? Because

> > he was hit with

> > > birdshot, he

> > > needs to be flown? What about his true medical

> > condition? What of

> > > that,

> > > required flight? The fact that he has good

> medical

> > coverage? This is a

> > >

> > > factor when flying?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And I stand corrected, he was flown.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hatfield FF/EMT-P

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Corpus Christi

> newspaper

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

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Guest guest

In this case the nearest level III did not have a

neurosurgeon on call where as the level III 30 miles

away did. the medics from the helicopter service know

that when we call it is a patient that needs the care

from the level III in Harlingen.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- " Bledsoe, DO "

wrote:

> Salavdor, how would helicopter transport helped your

> motorcycle accident

> patient? Would it have healed his spinal cord? Was

> there any treatment

> necessary that required transport where a few

> minutes makes a difference.

> There is a risk in everything, from typing on this

> computer to skydiving.

> You always have to measure the risk against any

> benefit. The risk of ground

> ambulance transport while real, is better that the

> risk of air ambulance

> transport. Even transport by donkey cart has

> risk-you have to measure them.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of salvador capuchino

> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:17 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper

> reports on EMS response

> to Cheney incident

>

>

>

> Good answer Henry. I agree. I would have flown him

> out as well considering that Armstrong is at least 1

> hour away from any hospital north or south. This is

> a

> trauma patient and as per RAC protocol the mechanism

> is significant enough to warrant a bird. Some

> medics

> from a particular service have been trained and

> taught

> that they can handle any call no matter how bad it

> is

> and that if you call a bird you are a wimp. That in

> my opinion is very wrong. Some of these guys have

> gone to work for a rural service and learned the

> hard

> way that you simply cannot think that way when you

> are

> in the middle of nowhere. When I used to work for

> that service a supervisor refused to allow me to fly

> out a teenager from a motorcycle accident at a dirt

> bike track. The kid had paralysis from the neck

> down

> after the bike landed on his back. Apparently the

> kid

> was thrown off the bike in the air. The location

> was

> at least 15-20 minutes from the nearest level III

> trauma center.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- Henry wrote:

>

> > Ok I have read all the post and will reply to

> Mike's

> > because it was the

> > last one I read. I will say up front that I would

> > have flown this

> > gentleman to the closest trauma center. Several

> > questions first.

> > 1. How many pellets in 7.5 or 8 bird shot?

> > 2. Can bird shot kill?

> > 3. Is a human hide tougher to penetrate than a

> bird,

> > rabbit ect...?

> >

> > Answer:

> > 1. A bunch

> > 2. Yea it can

> > 3. No it is not

> >

> > Even though this guy was conscious and talking I

> > would have assumed

> > immediately that the shot penetrated the chest

> > cavity. Which makes this

> > man shot multiple times in the chest and neck. The

> > only place this guy

> > needs to be is in a trauma center immediately.

> > Unless ground can get him

> > there before the helicopter including any wait

> time

> > for the bird then he

> > needs to go by helicopter.

> >

> > Multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and neck

> should

> > be reason enough

> > for any arm chair medic, doctor or lawyer to fly

> > this guy. I think if

> > this gentleman walks out of the hospital without

> any

> > problems he is a

> > very very lucky man. A littler closer or a few

> more

> > shot hitting vital

> > organs and this would have been a different story.

> > Everyone in

> > government is trying to down play this incident in

> > regards to the

> > patients condition for obvious reasons. They can

> > down play it all they

> > want but it was very serious.

> >

> > Lets talk about hunting today. I have been a bird

> > hunter since I was big

> > enough to pick up a shot gun and pull the trigger.

> > Safety has always

> > been a big concern and I preach it to my son who

> is

> > a better bird hunter

> > than I am. I have been hunting for at least 40

> years

> > and have seen minor

> > lapses in safety for whatever reason or another.

> > None of those have been

> > because the other hunter did not have safety on

> his

> > mind while hunting.

> > Hell that why they call them hunting accidents. If

> > not they would be

> > called hunting murder or hunting blow your ass up.

> >

> > I would bet that the Vice President (even though

> he

> > is a republican) had

> > every intention of being a safe hunter that day.

> >

> > At the end of the day here is what you do:

> >

> > Fly the patient when necessary and practice safe

> > hunting.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > PS. What I would like to see occur on this list

> > server is less dogging

> > of the helicopter issue and more instruction and

> or

> > education on when it

> > is appropriate to fly. Dr. B, Gene and others that

> > people look up to, if

> > we keep going down this path younger medics that

> > read your post may

> > interpret that helicopters have no place in EMS

> and

> > should not be used.

> > I firmly believe that they have a place and

> provide

> > a service that we

> > can take advantage of when it is necessary. Kinda

> > like the baby and bath

> > water thing.

> >

> >

> > hatfield wrote:

> >

> > > Because he is 78, he needs to be flown? Because

> > he was hit with

> > > birdshot, he

> > > needs to be flown? What about his true medical

> > condition? What of

> > > that,

> > > required flight? The fact that he has good

> medical

> > coverage? This is a

> > >

> > > factor when flying?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And I stand corrected, he was flown.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hatfield FF/EMT-P

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Corpus Christi

> newspaper

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

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Guest guest

In this case the nearest level III did not have a

neurosurgeon on call where as the level III 30 miles

away did. the medics from the helicopter service know

that when we call it is a patient that needs the care

from the level III in Harlingen.

Salvador Capuchino Jr

EMT-P

--- " Bledsoe, DO "

wrote:

> Salavdor, how would helicopter transport helped your

> motorcycle accident

> patient? Would it have healed his spinal cord? Was

> there any treatment

> necessary that required transport where a few

> minutes makes a difference.

> There is a risk in everything, from typing on this

> computer to skydiving.

> You always have to measure the risk against any

> benefit. The risk of ground

> ambulance transport while real, is better that the

> risk of air ambulance

> transport. Even transport by donkey cart has

> risk-you have to measure them.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On

> Behalf Of salvador capuchino

> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:17 AM

> To:

> Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper

> reports on EMS response

> to Cheney incident

>

>

>

> Good answer Henry. I agree. I would have flown him

> out as well considering that Armstrong is at least 1

> hour away from any hospital north or south. This is

> a

> trauma patient and as per RAC protocol the mechanism

> is significant enough to warrant a bird. Some

> medics

> from a particular service have been trained and

> taught

> that they can handle any call no matter how bad it

> is

> and that if you call a bird you are a wimp. That in

> my opinion is very wrong. Some of these guys have

> gone to work for a rural service and learned the

> hard

> way that you simply cannot think that way when you

> are

> in the middle of nowhere. When I used to work for

> that service a supervisor refused to allow me to fly

> out a teenager from a motorcycle accident at a dirt

> bike track. The kid had paralysis from the neck

> down

> after the bike landed on his back. Apparently the

> kid

> was thrown off the bike in the air. The location

> was

> at least 15-20 minutes from the nearest level III

> trauma center.

> Salvador Capuchino Jr

> EMT-P

>

> --- Henry wrote:

>

> > Ok I have read all the post and will reply to

> Mike's

> > because it was the

> > last one I read. I will say up front that I would

> > have flown this

> > gentleman to the closest trauma center. Several

> > questions first.

> > 1. How many pellets in 7.5 or 8 bird shot?

> > 2. Can bird shot kill?

> > 3. Is a human hide tougher to penetrate than a

> bird,

> > rabbit ect...?

> >

> > Answer:

> > 1. A bunch

> > 2. Yea it can

> > 3. No it is not

> >

> > Even though this guy was conscious and talking I

> > would have assumed

> > immediately that the shot penetrated the chest

> > cavity. Which makes this

> > man shot multiple times in the chest and neck. The

> > only place this guy

> > needs to be is in a trauma center immediately.

> > Unless ground can get him

> > there before the helicopter including any wait

> time

> > for the bird then he

> > needs to go by helicopter.

> >

> > Multiple gunshot wounds to the chest and neck

> should

> > be reason enough

> > for any arm chair medic, doctor or lawyer to fly

> > this guy. I think if

> > this gentleman walks out of the hospital without

> any

> > problems he is a

> > very very lucky man. A littler closer or a few

> more

> > shot hitting vital

> > organs and this would have been a different story.

> > Everyone in

> > government is trying to down play this incident in

> > regards to the

> > patients condition for obvious reasons. They can

> > down play it all they

> > want but it was very serious.

> >

> > Lets talk about hunting today. I have been a bird

> > hunter since I was big

> > enough to pick up a shot gun and pull the trigger.

> > Safety has always

> > been a big concern and I preach it to my son who

> is

> > a better bird hunter

> > than I am. I have been hunting for at least 40

> years

> > and have seen minor

> > lapses in safety for whatever reason or another.

> > None of those have been

> > because the other hunter did not have safety on

> his

> > mind while hunting.

> > Hell that why they call them hunting accidents. If

> > not they would be

> > called hunting murder or hunting blow your ass up.

> >

> > I would bet that the Vice President (even though

> he

> > is a republican) had

> > every intention of being a safe hunter that day.

> >

> > At the end of the day here is what you do:

> >

> > Fly the patient when necessary and practice safe

> > hunting.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > PS. What I would like to see occur on this list

> > server is less dogging

> > of the helicopter issue and more instruction and

> or

> > education on when it

> > is appropriate to fly. Dr. B, Gene and others that

> > people look up to, if

> > we keep going down this path younger medics that

> > read your post may

> > interpret that helicopters have no place in EMS

> and

> > should not be used.

> > I firmly believe that they have a place and

> provide

> > a service that we

> > can take advantage of when it is necessary. Kinda

> > like the baby and bath

> > water thing.

> >

> >

> > hatfield wrote:

> >

> > > Because he is 78, he needs to be flown? Because

> > he was hit with

> > > birdshot, he

> > > needs to be flown? What about his true medical

> > condition? What of

> > > that,

> > > required flight? The fact that he has good

> medical

> > coverage? This is a

> > >

> > > factor when flying?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Mike

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > And I stand corrected, he was flown.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hatfield FF/EMT-P

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Re: Corpus Christi

> newspaper

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

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