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Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response to Cheney incident

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I stand corrected. I knew should have asked the history teacher down the hall,

and not taken a students word for it, I'm just responsible to teach 'em this

medical stuff......

-MH

>>> THEDUDMAN@... 2/17/2006 1:20 pm >>>

,

Small correction to your piece about a VP who has shot someone...

Hamilton was not a VP who shot somebody...it was Burr, Jefferson's

first VP from 1800 to 1804...who did so in a duel in July 1804...shortly after

losing out on the NY Governor's election...

Hamilton, unfortunately, was involved in that he was the receiver of

the round from Burr....I also believe this was the last legal duel in the United

States.

Just wanted to correct the history piece...I am a little familiar with this as

Mr. Burr is way back in my family ancestory....

Dudley

Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response to

Cheney incident

We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant Capital of Texas).

The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll guarantee that a few hunters

will get peppered by shot. Usually not a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many

times they have called a helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is

the second VP who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the

press has to overblow it.

-MH

>>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Anatomy of medical response to shooting

Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

February 16, 2006

In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of

Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew scrambled to treat the

injured man while the Secret Service called for medical backup.

Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between 5:30 and 5:50

p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy

County.

" That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret Service spokesman

Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's coming from our people that

were down there and the local agents from Mc. "

Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam Willeford, U.S.

ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to retrieve downed quail, and

Cheney accidentally sprayed him with birdshot while firing on a second covey of

quail.

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air

ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus

Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive

director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in

Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take

Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with

Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

" I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical folks that

were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene.

Decisions were made on their advice at that point. "

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m.,

Zahren said.

" It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, " Zahren said.

" It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim. "

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m.,

Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel

decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

" Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a

doctor preference, " Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at

the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake

and talking during the flight, he said.

Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

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Guest guest

I stand corrected. I knew should have asked the history teacher down the hall,

and not taken a students word for it, I'm just responsible to teach 'em this

medical stuff......

-MH

>>> THEDUDMAN@... 2/17/2006 1:20 pm >>>

,

Small correction to your piece about a VP who has shot someone...

Hamilton was not a VP who shot somebody...it was Burr, Jefferson's

first VP from 1800 to 1804...who did so in a duel in July 1804...shortly after

losing out on the NY Governor's election...

Hamilton, unfortunately, was involved in that he was the receiver of

the round from Burr....I also believe this was the last legal duel in the United

States.

Just wanted to correct the history piece...I am a little familiar with this as

Mr. Burr is way back in my family ancestory....

Dudley

Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response to

Cheney incident

We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant Capital of Texas).

The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll guarantee that a few hunters

will get peppered by shot. Usually not a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many

times they have called a helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is

the second VP who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the

press has to overblow it.

-MH

>>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Anatomy of medical response to shooting

Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

February 16, 2006

In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of

Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew scrambled to treat the

injured man while the Secret Service called for medical backup.

Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between 5:30 and 5:50

p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy

County.

" That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret Service spokesman

Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's coming from our people that

were down there and the local agents from Mc. "

Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam Willeford, U.S.

ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to retrieve downed quail, and

Cheney accidentally sprayed him with birdshot while firing on a second covey of

quail.

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air

ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus

Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive

director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in

Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take

Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with

Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

" I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical folks that

were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene.

Decisions were made on their advice at that point. "

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m.,

Zahren said.

" It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, " Zahren said.

" It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim. "

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m.,

Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel

decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

" Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a

doctor preference, " Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at

the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake

and talking during the flight, he said.

Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

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Mike,

Lol, ya that's what I meant..I knew what I was talking about anyway..

> >

> >

> > The bullet moving

> > into his coronary system happened well after he'd been in the

> > hospital and reported by the press as " stable and in good

condition " .

>

>

>

> For the record there was no bullet - only birdshot (which is much

smaller

> than buckshot). VERY different animals. IIRC, it was #8 shot -

very tiny.

> The trauma/kinetics are significantly different between the two

(or three).

>

> Mike :)

>

>

>

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To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

<SNIPPED> For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was

much faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

<SNIPPED> For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was

much faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Guest guest

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

<SNIPPED> For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was

much faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

Jay Leno said Cheney should get an award............... for shooting a lawyer.

Sorry Gene, Wes, , and others....

That's funny right there, I don't care who ya are....

Tater

Hudson wrote:

We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant Capital of Texas).

The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll guarantee that a few hunters

will get peppered by shot. Usually not a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many

times they have called a helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is

the second VP who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the

press has to overblow it.

-MH

>>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Anatomy of medical response to shooting

Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

February 16, 2006

In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of

Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew scrambled to treat the

injured man while the Secret Service called for medical backup.

Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between 5:30 and 5:50

p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy

County.

" That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret Service spokesman

Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's coming from our people that

were down there and the local agents from Mc. "

Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam Willeford, U.S.

ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to retrieve downed quail, and

Cheney accidentally sprayed him with birdshot while firing on a second covey of

quail.

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air

ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus

Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive

director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in

Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take

Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with

Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

" I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical folks that

were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene.

Decisions were made on their advice at that point. "

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m.,

Zahren said.

" It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, " Zahren said.

" It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim. "

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m.,

Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel

decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

" Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a

doctor preference, " Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at

the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake

and talking during the flight, he said.

Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

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Jay Leno said Cheney should get an award............... for shooting a lawyer.

Sorry Gene, Wes, , and others....

That's funny right there, I don't care who ya are....

Tater

Hudson wrote:

We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant Capital of Texas).

The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll guarantee that a few hunters

will get peppered by shot. Usually not a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many

times they have called a helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is

the second VP who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the

press has to overblow it.

-MH

>>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Anatomy of medical response to shooting

Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

February 16, 2006

In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of

Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew scrambled to treat the

injured man while the Secret Service called for medical backup.

Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between 5:30 and 5:50

p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy

County.

" That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret Service spokesman

Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's coming from our people that

were down there and the local agents from Mc. "

Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam Willeford, U.S.

ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to retrieve downed quail, and

Cheney accidentally sprayed him with birdshot while firing on a second covey of

quail.

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air

ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus

Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive

director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in

Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take

Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with

Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

" I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical folks that

were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene.

Decisions were made on their advice at that point. "

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m.,

Zahren said.

" It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, " Zahren said.

" It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim. "

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m.,

Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel

decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

" Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a

doctor preference, " Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at

the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake

and talking during the flight, he said.

Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

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Jay Leno said Cheney should get an award............... for shooting a lawyer.

Sorry Gene, Wes, , and others....

That's funny right there, I don't care who ya are....

Tater

Hudson wrote:

We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant Capital of Texas).

The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll guarantee that a few hunters

will get peppered by shot. Usually not a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many

times they have called a helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is

the second VP who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the

press has to overblow it.

-MH

>>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

-Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

Austin, Texas

Anatomy of medical response to shooting

Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

February 16, 2006

In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental shooting of

Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew scrambled to treat the

injured man while the Secret Service called for medical backup.

Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between 5:30 and 5:50

p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy

County.

" That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret Service spokesman

Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's coming from our people that

were down there and the local agents from Mc. "

Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam Willeford, U.S.

ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to retrieve downed quail, and

Cheney accidentally sprayed him with birdshot while firing on a second covey of

quail.

The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m., putting the air

ambulance service on standby in case Whittington needed to be flown to Christus

Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive

director Randy Rowe. Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in

Kingsville was notified that Whittington was en route.

Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision to take

Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel who travel with

Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

" I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical folks that

were there would have weighed more into that than our people on the scene.

Decisions were made on their advice at that point. "

Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about 6:20 p.m.,

Zahren said.

" It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, " Zahren said.

" It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the victim. "

The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and 6:50 p.m.,

Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg medical personnel

decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

" Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of care or a

doctor preference, " Rowe said.

The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m. and landed at

the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe said. Whittington was awake

and talking during the flight, he said.

Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

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Steve,

How SURE are you? I just recently was in that region teaching, and I have

driven that road a number of times. It is flat and pretty straight. There

is a " back way " that the medics will know that cuts across the country and has

very little traffic. I'm betting that if the Poor Harry had been loaded into

the ambulance as soon as the transfer decision was made, he would have been

at the hospital in Corpus just as soon as the helo, if not sooner, not even

running Code 3.

So I don't buy the " much faster " statement.

Gene.

> I sincerely doubt it.  Do the math; generally ground transport is faster

> for a short distance.  What is the distance from Kingsville to Corpus Christi,

> 50 miles+/-?  Ground would have been much faster and not any less

> comfortable.

>   

>   Tater

>   

>  

>

> STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

>   The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

> much faster.

>

>

>

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Steve,

How SURE are you? I just recently was in that region teaching, and I have

driven that road a number of times. It is flat and pretty straight. There

is a " back way " that the medics will know that cuts across the country and has

very little traffic. I'm betting that if the Poor Harry had been loaded into

the ambulance as soon as the transfer decision was made, he would have been

at the hospital in Corpus just as soon as the helo, if not sooner, not even

running Code 3.

So I don't buy the " much faster " statement.

Gene.

> I sincerely doubt it.  Do the math; generally ground transport is faster

> for a short distance.  What is the distance from Kingsville to Corpus Christi,

> 50 miles+/-?  Ground would have been much faster and not any less

> comfortable.

>   

>   Tater

>   

>  

>

> STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

>   The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

> much faster.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Steve,

How SURE are you? I just recently was in that region teaching, and I have

driven that road a number of times. It is flat and pretty straight. There

is a " back way " that the medics will know that cuts across the country and has

very little traffic. I'm betting that if the Poor Harry had been loaded into

the ambulance as soon as the transfer decision was made, he would have been

at the hospital in Corpus just as soon as the helo, if not sooner, not even

running Code 3.

So I don't buy the " much faster " statement.

Gene.

> I sincerely doubt it.  Do the math; generally ground transport is faster

> for a short distance.  What is the distance from Kingsville to Corpus Christi,

> 50 miles+/-?  Ground would have been much faster and not any less

> comfortable.

>   

>   Tater

>   

>  

>

> STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

>   The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

> much faster.

>

>

>

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Tater,

What's up brother? I think Dave's top ten was the best

February 13, 2006

Top Ten Dick Cheney Excuses

10. " Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm "

9. " Wanted to get the Iraq mess off the front page "

8. " Not enough Jim Beam "

7. " Trying to stop the spread of bird flu "

6. " I love to shoot people "

5. " Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter "

4. " I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me "

3. " Excuse? I hit him, didn't I? "

2. " Until Democrats approve medicare reform, we have to make some

tough choices for the elderly "

1. " Made a bet with Gretzky's wife "

Danny

> We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant

Capital of Texas). The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll

guarantee that a few hunters will get peppered by shot. Usually not

a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many times they have called a

helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is the second VP

who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the press

has to overblow it.

>

> -MH

>

> >>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

> Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

>

> Anatomy of medical response to shooting

> Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

> By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

> February 16, 2006

>

> In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental

shooting of Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew

scrambled to treat the injured man while the Secret Service called

for medical backup.

> Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between

5:30 and 5:50 p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre

Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy County.

> " That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret

Service spokesman Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's

coming from our people that were down there and the local agents from

Mc. "

> Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam

Willeford, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to

retrieve downed quail, and Cheney accidentally sprayed him with

birdshot while firing on a second covey of quail.

> The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m.,

putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington

needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's

trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe.

Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville was

notified that Whittington was en route.

> Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision

to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel

who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

> " I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical

folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our

people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that

point. "

> Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about

6:20 p.m., Zahren said.

> " It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, "

Zahren said. " It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the

victim. "

> The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and

6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

> HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg

medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

> " Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of

care or a doctor preference, " Rowe said.

> The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m.

and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe

said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.

> Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

> Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

>

>

>

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Tater,

What's up brother? I think Dave's top ten was the best

February 13, 2006

Top Ten Dick Cheney Excuses

10. " Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm "

9. " Wanted to get the Iraq mess off the front page "

8. " Not enough Jim Beam "

7. " Trying to stop the spread of bird flu "

6. " I love to shoot people "

5. " Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter "

4. " I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me "

3. " Excuse? I hit him, didn't I? "

2. " Until Democrats approve medicare reform, we have to make some

tough choices for the elderly "

1. " Made a bet with Gretzky's wife "

Danny

> We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant

Capital of Texas). The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll

guarantee that a few hunters will get peppered by shot. Usually not

a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many times they have called a

helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is the second VP

who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the press

has to overblow it.

>

> -MH

>

> >>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

> Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

>

> Anatomy of medical response to shooting

> Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

> By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

> February 16, 2006

>

> In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental

shooting of Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew

scrambled to treat the injured man while the Secret Service called

for medical backup.

> Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between

5:30 and 5:50 p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre

Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy County.

> " That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret

Service spokesman Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's

coming from our people that were down there and the local agents from

Mc. "

> Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam

Willeford, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to

retrieve downed quail, and Cheney accidentally sprayed him with

birdshot while firing on a second covey of quail.

> The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m.,

putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington

needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's

trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe.

Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville was

notified that Whittington was en route.

> Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision

to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel

who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

> " I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical

folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our

people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that

point. "

> Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about

6:20 p.m., Zahren said.

> " It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, "

Zahren said. " It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the

victim. "

> The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and

6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

> HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg

medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

> " Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of

care or a doctor preference, " Rowe said.

> The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m.

and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe

said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.

> Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

> Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Tater,

What's up brother? I think Dave's top ten was the best

February 13, 2006

Top Ten Dick Cheney Excuses

10. " Heart palpitation caused trigger finger to spasm "

9. " Wanted to get the Iraq mess off the front page "

8. " Not enough Jim Beam "

7. " Trying to stop the spread of bird flu "

6. " I love to shoot people "

5. " Guy was making cracks about my lesbian daughter "

4. " I thought the guy was trying to go 'gay cowboy' on me "

3. " Excuse? I hit him, didn't I? "

2. " Until Democrats approve medicare reform, we have to make some

tough choices for the elderly "

1. " Made a bet with Gretzky's wife "

Danny

> We have 2 sections of farmland south of Stratford(Pheasant

Capital of Texas). The first couple of days of pheasant season, I'll

guarantee that a few hunters will get peppered by shot. Usually not

a big deal, ask Stratford EMS how many times they have called a

helicopter for a 'peppering'. I suppose since this is the second VP

who has shot somebody ( Hamilton was the first), the press

has to overblow it.

>

> -MH

>

> >>> ExLngHrn@... 2/16/2006 4:19 pm >>>

> Comments on the aeromedical aspect?

>

> -Wes Ogilvie, MPA, JD, EMT-B

> Austin, Texas

>

>

> Anatomy of medical response to shooting

> Secret Service alerts an air ambulance at 6 p.m. initially

> By Corpus Christi Caller-Times

> February 16, 2006

>

> In the minutes following Vice President Dick Cheney's accidental

shooting of Austin lawyer Harry Whittington, Cheney's medical crew

scrambled to treat the injured man while the Secret Service called

for medical backup.

> Whittington, 78, was struck on the face, neck and chest between

5:30 and 5:50 p.m. Saturday while quail hunting at the 50,000-acre

Armstrong Ranch in Kenedy County.

> " That's approximate from the information we have got, " Secret

Service spokesman Zahren said of the accident's time. " That's

coming from our people that were down there and the local agents from

Mc. "

> Whittington had stepped away from Cheney and fellow hunter Pam

Willeford, U.S. ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein, to

retrieve downed quail, and Cheney accidentally sprayed him with

birdshot while firing on a second covey of quail.

> The Secret Service notified HALO-Flight dispatch about 6 p.m.,

putting the air ambulance service on standby in case Whittington

needed to be flown to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial, the area's

trauma center, said HALO-Flight executive director Randy Rowe.

Minutes later, Christus Spohn Hospital Kleberg in Kingsville was

notified that Whittington was en route.

> Both Cheney's office and the Secret Service have said the decision

to take Whittington to Kingsville first was made by medical personnel

who travel with Cheney, who has a history of heart problems.

> " I can't comment to why he wasn't flown, " Zahren said. " The medical

folks that were there would have weighed more into that than our

people on the scene. Decisions were made on their advice at that

point. "

> Whittington was taken by ambulance to the Kingsville hospital about

6:20 p.m., Zahren said.

> " It was an ambulance on standby for the vice president's visit, "

Zahren said. " It had been dedicated and it was given up to treat the

victim. "

> The ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital between 6:45 and

6:50 p.m., Christus Spohn spokeswoman Wheeler said.

> HALO-Flight was called again at 7:07 p.m. after Spohn Kleberg

medical personnel decided Whittington needed more advanced treatment.

> " Typically, why we get calls for transfers is for a higher level of

care or a doctor preference, " Rowe said.

> The air ambulance arrived at the Kingsville hospital at 7:29 p.m.

and landed at the Corpus Christi trauma center at 8:19 p.m., Rowe

said. Whittington was awake and talking during the flight, he said.

> Contact at 886-3716 or HYPERLINK mailto:powellj@...

powellj@...

> Copyright 2006, Caller.com. All Rights Reserved.

>

>

>

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Guest guest

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly him

(according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making their

decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally dictate

that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit to the

patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s) involved or

the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances - the

latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's not a

fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway, turn, etc.

The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather is vibration (a

fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I would rather fly,

thank you - especially when the choices are flying for 30-40 minutes or driving

for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much faster

and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly him

(according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making their

decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally dictate

that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit to the

patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s) involved or

the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances - the

latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's not a

fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway, turn, etc.

The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather is vibration (a

fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I would rather fly,

thank you - especially when the choices are flying for 30-40 minutes or driving

for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much faster

and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Guest guest

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly him

(according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making their

decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally dictate

that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit to the

patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s) involved or

the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances - the

latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's not a

fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway, turn, etc.

The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather is vibration (a

fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I would rather fly,

thank you - especially when the choices are flying for 30-40 minutes or driving

for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was not

needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature comfort, and

the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much faster

and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

I think you are embellishing the facts. According to MapQuest, the distance

from Spohn Hospital in Kingsville to Memorial Hospital in Corpus Christi by

ground is 46.62 miles or 49 minutes average (driving the posted speed and

stopping at all lights/signs). I doubt the helicopter was at Kingsville, so

it probably came from Corpus Christi. Thus, when they made the decision to

transport the wounded lawyer, had they put him in a ground ambulance he

would have been at Memorial in 45 minutes. It would have taken 5 minutes to

start the helicopter, 22 minutes for the flight. Shut down and ground time

of about 30 minutes. Start-up and transport the Memorial would take about 35

minutes. He probably would have gotten there by ground in half the time.

Unless the helicopters in Corpus are now capable of time travel.

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Share on other sites
Guest guest

I think you are embellishing the facts. According to MapQuest, the distance

from Spohn Hospital in Kingsville to Memorial Hospital in Corpus Christi by

ground is 46.62 miles or 49 minutes average (driving the posted speed and

stopping at all lights/signs). I doubt the helicopter was at Kingsville, so

it probably came from Corpus Christi. Thus, when they made the decision to

transport the wounded lawyer, had they put him in a ground ambulance he

would have been at Memorial in 45 minutes. It would have taken 5 minutes to

start the helicopter, 22 minutes for the flight. Shut down and ground time

of about 30 minutes. Start-up and transport the Memorial would take about 35

minutes. He probably would have gotten there by ground in half the time.

Unless the helicopters in Corpus are now capable of time travel.

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Share on other sites
Guest guest

I think you are embellishing the facts. According to MapQuest, the distance

from Spohn Hospital in Kingsville to Memorial Hospital in Corpus Christi by

ground is 46.62 miles or 49 minutes average (driving the posted speed and

stopping at all lights/signs). I doubt the helicopter was at Kingsville, so

it probably came from Corpus Christi. Thus, when they made the decision to

transport the wounded lawyer, had they put him in a ground ambulance he

would have been at Memorial in 45 minutes. It would have taken 5 minutes to

start the helicopter, 22 minutes for the flight. Shut down and ground time

of about 30 minutes. Start-up and transport the Memorial would take about 35

minutes. He probably would have gotten there by ground in half the time.

Unless the helicopters in Corpus are now capable of time travel.

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Guest guest

I am still at a loss as to why he was flown. Of course we do not have all

the information but based on what I have read and seen on the news, the

patient had A-fib and some minor gsw wounds from the pellets. His condition

as I understand it was stable. So where was the good medical practice? All

medical transportation has a certain level of risk of an accident occurring.

But given the latest research on helicopter crashes, I would have to be 100

% sure that air transport is really needed and that the alternative of

ground transport would have a detrimental outcome on the patient. Otherwise

the ground transport wins out. I have had some really sick patients in my

ambulance in the past that were inter-facility transports, even though air

transport was available the ground option was chosen. With all the critical

care units out there today, can they not handle this type of transport with

good care, in a safer mode of transport and at a reasonable cost?

Don’t get me wrong I agree that air transport, in particular helicopter

transport has its place in the medical system but I do not think we are

using the proper criteria to determine who goes by what means. That should

be the issue that is addressed. We need to establish a protocol based on

current research data, not speculation or just in case or because that is

the way we have always done it!

Just my opinion,

Bernie Stafford EMTP

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? HYPERLINK

" http://www.TexasEMSAT.org " http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

Share this post


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Share on other sites
Guest guest

I am still at a loss as to why he was flown. Of course we do not have all

the information but based on what I have read and seen on the news, the

patient had A-fib and some minor gsw wounds from the pellets. His condition

as I understand it was stable. So where was the good medical practice? All

medical transportation has a certain level of risk of an accident occurring.

But given the latest research on helicopter crashes, I would have to be 100

% sure that air transport is really needed and that the alternative of

ground transport would have a detrimental outcome on the patient. Otherwise

the ground transport wins out. I have had some really sick patients in my

ambulance in the past that were inter-facility transports, even though air

transport was available the ground option was chosen. With all the critical

care units out there today, can they not handle this type of transport with

good care, in a safer mode of transport and at a reasonable cost?

Don’t get me wrong I agree that air transport, in particular helicopter

transport has its place in the medical system but I do not think we are

using the proper criteria to determine who goes by what means. That should

be the issue that is addressed. We need to establish a protocol based on

current research data, not speculation or just in case or because that is

the way we have always done it!

Just my opinion,

Bernie Stafford EMTP

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? HYPERLINK

" http://www.TexasEMSAT.org " http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

What are the most popular cars? Find out at Yahoo! Autos

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Guest guest

I sincerely doubt it. Do the math; generally ground transport is faster for a

short distance. What is the distance from Kingsville to Corpus Christi, 50

miles+/-? Ground would have been much faster and not any less comfortable.

Tater

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What’s stopping you from joining EMSAT? http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

---------------------------------

Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

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Guest guest

Very Simple Answer: Why was he flown.....1. HE WAS A FRIEND OF THE VICE

PRESIDENT . 2. HE HAD JUST BEEN SHOT BY THE SAME V.P. Wouldn't you have

flow the same patient knowing that you actions would be under national

scrutiny...Why is everyone missing this simple explanation and arguing a

mute point? Time to move on to the next subject..

-

---- Original Message -----

To: < >

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:00 PM

Subject: RE: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

I am still at a loss as to why he was flown. Of course we do not have all

the information but based on what I have read and seen on the news, the

patient had A-fib and some minor gsw wounds from the pellets. His condition

as I understand it was stable. So where was the good medical practice? All

medical transportation has a certain level of risk of an accident occurring.

But given the latest research on helicopter crashes, I would have to be 100

% sure that air transport is really needed and that the alternative of

ground transport would have a detrimental outcome on the patient. Otherwise

the ground transport wins out. I have had some really sick patients in my

ambulance in the past that were inter-facility transports, even though air

transport was available the ground option was chosen. With all the critical

care units out there today, can they not handle this type of transport with

good care, in a safer mode of transport and at a reasonable cost?

Don't get me wrong I agree that air transport, in particular helicopter

transport has its place in the medical system but I do not think we are

using the proper criteria to determine who goes by what means. That should

be the issue that is addressed. We need to establish a protocol based on

current research data, not speculation or just in case or because that is

the way we have always done it!

Just my opinion,

Bernie Stafford EMTP

_____

From: [mailto: ] On

Behalf Of STEVE BOWMAN

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:28 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Corpus Christi newspaper reports on EMS response

to Cheney incident

" the risks outweighed the benefit in this case " - and you know this because?

The doctor(s) in the ER at the hospital in Kingsville made the call to fly

him (according to the newspaper article). What criteria they used in making

their decision was not stated; however, good medical practice would normally

dictate that such a decision be made in the manner that is of most benefit

to the patient. Since we don't know the qualifications of the physician(s)

involved or the criteria they applied, second-guessing them is dangerous.

The only thing that we can be SURE of is that the helicopter got him there

much faster. The comment about " smoother " that I made before was based on a

fair amount of time spent in the back of both helicopters and ambulances -

the latter as both patient and crew. Even on a reasonably smooth road, it's

not a fun ride in teh back of an ambulance. You feel every bump, sway,

turn, etc. The major movement in the back of a heklicopter in good weather

is vibration (a fair amount of that, I admit). If I were the patient, I

would rather fly, thank you - especially when the choices are flying for

30-40 minutes or driving for 2-3 hours. . .

" E. Tate " wrote:

To what end? The hospital should have been able to establish that this was

not needed, and sent him by ground. Helicopters are not about creature

comfort, and the risks outweighed the benefit in this case.

Helo was a horrible call. I'd bet the rent-a-doc in the ER had some strange

notion that the helo was some miracle working machine.

STEVE BOWMAN wrote:

For the transfer to the higher-level facility, transport by air was much

faster and smoother for the patient.

E. Tate, LP

Whitehouse, Texas

What's stopping you from joining EMSAT? HYPERLINK

" http://www.TexasEMSAT.org " http://www.TexasEMSAT.org

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