RE: OT-Botched Hysterectomy

[Guest guest]

HI Sandi,

Yes I've heard of granulation and it is fairly common... basically a term that happens after a wound, cut or surgery with the body trying to heal itself. In fact it's part of the process of the fusing that happens with the labia and clitoral hood in LS.

Hon I know this isn't really about what you're talking about with internal surgery but it's a piece I've written for the LS group about 'Fusing vs. Atrophy' and how the fusing takes place simply because of damaged tissue with the adhesions/fusing being left as a result, and why some physicians even can miss the fact and call it atrophy when it's often the scar tissue as they can 'appear' to be the same. Maybe it'll help? I dunno but it's likely the same process, so for what it's worth hon. I could be totally wrong tho for what you're talking about .

Here's a part of it....

''.......Inflammation which is the start of this process is said to resolve when no structural cells have been lost after the inflammatory process is complete and other cellular processes have cleaned up the area.

But....when the tissue has been damaged during this inflammatory process, esp. mucous membranes like the vulva as with LS (lichen sclerosus), or LP (lichen planus) and if the tissue itself is still 'alive' the tissue will do either.......

ONE of TWO things..........

1. ''REGENERATE ' so there is no fusing or scar tissue but healed by ones own body or immune system, and steroids themselves by the way do NOT do this, but allow the body to heal itself by halting the symptoms and slowing down the immune system (causes of inflammation), even antihistamines work like that in a small way to help stop that inflammation and so do steroids or the immunomodulators like Elidel or Protopic, they halt the inflammation, burn, itch etc. to allow our 'own' immune system to regenerate.

OR the tissue will.......

2. BE REPAIRED BY FIBROUS TISSUE (bands) !

This is the fusing or adhesions *scar tissue* so often found on the vulva with LS. (As in the picture above and you can see those fibrous bands as a sort of bridge connecting the damaged area.

If 'none' of the latter is needed (those bands) by the body (that fibrous tissue), the word "RESOLUTION" is applied, it's restored, and we’re healed, no scars....

But……. If any repair by that fibrous tissue occurs, there will be a scar and we have 'fusing'. It's simply nature trying to heal us much as when a tree is grafted and two cut sides grow together.

Another term might be called "AGGLUTINATION'. Which means simply the clumping together of cells as a result of their contact with certain anti-bodies. Which is technically I suppose what happens... as in a cut or break in the tissue (from any cause) the white blood cells come to do battle to heal and look for foreign invaders (but the 'clumping' is the key word) the skin 'clumps' together and forms a 'bridge' so to speak or scar tissue or what 'we' call fused. Basically, fusing is the act of joining 2 things together which is what technically happens.

With the addition of estrogen topically (As with the Estrace creams) since estrogen 'can' soften scar tissue and is well known for its wound and skin healing properties, the body can restore some of those cells and 'unfuse' or 'separate' those parts in many cases as it did me completely. It can even halt the original forming of that scar tissue in some cases to prevent those 'bridges' (fibrous bands) from forming in the first place.''

I really doubt that's of much help but I knew the term agglutination from that perspective and scar tissue. About the bleeding after intercourse? One way to think of that and how it 'might' tie in is this... it's like picking off a scab 'before' it's healed completely and it can still bleed underneath, the wound just hasn't healed yet and I'd guess that maybe the intercourse disturbs something too soon?... *sigh*.

Yet as long ago as you had that surgery it certainly should have healed by now. So I'm half wondering if there's just something going on with your body that just won't allow you to heal like you should? Believe me hon that's just a WAG.. (a Wild A$$ guess). Do you heal fine with just a normal cut say on your arm? If so, then I wouldn't think it's that.

Hon I just feel so bad for all you've been thru with trying to correct something and it just seems the more you do the worse it gets and how absolutely totally frustrating that's got to be. *sigh* I am just so so sorry!

Big ((Hugs)) hon and my heart sure does go out to you.

Dee~

[Guest guest]

Sandy,

OMG, I never heard of bleeding a year after the

hystorectomy. What the hek nicked your bladder geesh!

I would see a good reptuble OBGYN. He definitly made a

mistake and will continue to hide it. I would

definitly see someone else. You may even have a law

suit. Im so sorry darlin. What a jerk. He knew your

case was difficult if anything he should have been

extra carefull. Sorry sweetie I cant help you with

anything else. Good luck.

Big Hugs, Tami

--- Sandi Sharp wrote:

> Hi ladies,

>

> Just need to vent and ask if anyone ever heard of

> this. I have one of the worst and most complicated

> cases of v pain. I thought since my veins bulge

> internally when I stand and I have chronic

> constipation with my uterus so retroverted it was

> sitting below my sacrum that a hysterectomy would

> help. Well it stopped my monthly hemorraghing and

> upper body rashes connected with my period but the

> dr messed up big time.

>

> First he cut my bladder. It was sliced so that

> there is a hole in the bladder wall about the size

> of a quarter. A thin clear musous lining is holding

> the urine in but there is no wall behind it. In the

> cystoscopy they could see through the lining/hole

> and look at my pelvic organs from inside the

> bladder. The pain was horrific but gradually

> subsided from 24/7 to only first pee in a.m. Now I

> am still spotting almost a year after the operation.

> He says that it is granulation tissue - tissue that

> just hasn't healed right. On the rare occasions

> that we have PIV I bleed bright red blood. I also

> bleed if I bear down, like when I try to go. Today

> I am spotting w/o any catalyst and I am fuming mad.

> It hurts inside too. It refers pain down my right

> side and I never had any internal pain before the

> hyst.

>

> Does anyone know anything about this? I went back

> to my gyn, the surgeon I am losing confidence in,

> twice and he put silver nitrate on it, but it didn't

> work. I just don't know what to do. There is an

> enormous website out there called hystersisters and

> I searched on granulation and there were very FEW

> posts on it. The medical literature says it is

> common, but I think they are just CYA b/c that huge

> site with all sorts of complications barely mentions

> it.

>

> Please give me advice if you can!

>

> THANKS,

> Sandi

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+

> countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with

Voice.

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Sandi, I have no useful advice for this situation.

The doctor messed up bigtime; you can say that again. This is

egregious. This is horrific. How could he possibly get away with

this?

He *cut* your bladder and just left it with a hole in it? Why the

h*ll didn't he at least sew it back up?

Love,

the dr messed up big time.

>

> First he cut my bladder. It was sliced so that there is a hole

in the bladder wall about the size of a quarter. A thin clear

musous lining is holding the urine in but there is no wall behind

it. In the cystoscopy they could see through the lining/hole and

look at my pelvic organs from inside the bladder. The pain was

horrific but gradually subsided from 24/7 to only first pee in

a.m.

On the rare occasions that we have PIV I bleed bright red blood.

[Guest guest]

Sandi,

I'm sorry to hear of what you are going thru now. As for the

spotting, regardless of the cause, after a hysterectomy is not

normal and is reason for concern.

I would definitely consult another gyn about this. There is

definitely something not right about this.

See if you can get a copy of your medical records. This will

tell you plenty. If he refuses to release them to you (under

the HIPPA law you are entitled to review your records and also

have copies) remind him about the HIPPA law. Also, a refusal to

send records to the patient means that they know that they have

been caught. Same for if you find that your records are

incomplete.

By looking at the record you have a better idea of what

happened. Pay close attention to the notes of the

anesthesiologist as well b/c that may give some clues as to what

happened.

(((Hugs))),

Kristy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

If the first lawyers won't work with you there are other who will. Some lawyers won' take a case if it isn't for the ghazillion dollar payload that class actions bring in. But there are lawyers who will take your case and if it is as you presented it then you do indeed have a case.

As mentioned in another post re this subject, be certain that you have your entire case file, including that of the anesthesiologist. Decide what you want before you start - i.e., money and a good surgeon to fix the problem and then find the lawyer for you. Finding the right lawyer is ery much like finding the right doc. If Mc's can be sued for hot coffee, and gyns can be sued for cerebral palsy and such - you have a case. You were fine until this guy hacked away at you with a scalpel. For further proof, get copies of MRI's, ultrasounds done by the other docs in the last few years (the ones you had cut your veins or whatever else you had done. There is a good chance that the bladder is visualized in these and this may prove that nothing was awry until the hysterectomy was performed. If you have had a vaginal ultrasound at any time in the recent past or any procedure which would prove that you hadn't been cut on prior to the hysterectomy - get copies of the records an dyou have your proof.

If this guy was this brutal as a doc, you can't allow him to continue to hurt other women. If you don't want to see a lawyer - at the very least, you should prepare a very concise statement which includes all the facts - as well as prior docs confirming you hadn't been cut (in fact if you only have one scar and no scars in belly buttom for that kin dof viewing, I'd say you have proof that the only time you could have had this cut was during the hysterectomy). Present this statement yourself to the highest possible hospital rep and tell them that you intend to get a lawyer (he doesn't have to know you don't want to) and that you are going to make it your mission to expose this doc and the hosptial for what they have done to you.

Dusty

-----Original Message-----From: VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of Sandi SharpSent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:16 AMTo: VulvarDisorders Subject: OT-Botched Hysterectomy

Hi ladies,

Just need to vent and ask if anyone ever heard of this. I have one of the worst and most complicated cases of v pain. I thought since my veins bulge internally when I stand and I have chronic constipation with my uterus so retroverted it was sitting below my sacrum that a hysterectomy would help. Well it stopped my monthly hemorraghing and upper body rashes connected with my period but the dr messed up big time.

First he cut my bladder. It was sliced so that there is a hole in the bladder wall about the size of a quarter. A thin clear musous lining is holding the urine in but there is no wall behind it. In the cystoscopy they could see through the lining/hole and look at my pelvic organs from inside the bladder. The pain was horrific but gradually subsided from 24/7 to only first pee in a.m. Now I am still spotting almost a year after the operation. He says that it is granulation tissue - tissue that just hasn't healed right. On the rare occasions that we have PIV I bleed bright red blood. I also bleed if I bear down, like when I try to go. Today I am spotting w/o any catalyst and I am fuming mad. It hurts inside too. It refers pain down my right side and I never had any internal pain before the hyst.

Does anyone know anything about this? I went back to my gyn, the surgeon I am losing confidence in, twice and he put silver nitrate on it, but it didn't work. I just don't know what to do. There is an enormous website out there called hystersisters and I searched on granulation and there were very FEW posts on it. The medical literature says it is common, but I think they are just CYA b/c that huge site with all sorts of complications barely mentions it.

Please give me advice if you can!

THANKS,

Sandi

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[Guest guest]

This should also be reported to the State Medical Board as a

complaint.

Kristy

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi Kristy and Dusty, I know. I wish I could take action. But in the dr's mind everything went perfectly. He didn't slice my bladder in his opinion. Perhaps it got that way from my C-section years ago he said. The report said it didn't happen in the last 3 days!!! ( Either way he was supposed to check me thoroughly for endo and since he missed a big chunk of my bladder wall, how thorough could he have been?) And my bleeding now is just granulation tissue, aka healing tissue. My husband points out that healing tissue is fine for several days after the operation, but at some point continued bleeding, especially a year later, means something is wrong. If I had neck surgery and a year later my neck was still bleeding it would be an obvious screw up. BUt no, this continued bleeding to him just falls under the common granulation tissue. He disguised my chunk of bladder wall missing as " diverticulum" and continued bleeding as "granulation". Both are quite common he says. It gets me soooo angry. Oh by the way, this was a different doc than the head of the ACOG. This doc was recommended to me by my therapist who is now my good friend as one of the best surgeons in the Yale community. She worked in several OBGYN practices and I respect her opinion. But he still botched my case up completely. I have an appointment to go back to the former ACOG head to get his opinion on the continued bleeding and bladder wall problem. I have a good relationship with him. It will be interesting how much he sticks up for the doc who did my operation. I'll keep you posted. Love, Sandi

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[Guest guest]

But do you have prior sonograms, MRI's etc which can PROVE that the doc is lying..... I know yhou had lots of that sort of stuff when you were trying to prove that you had varicose vulvar veins. Can you get these records to see if the bladder was viewed ? I know when I have my yearly pelvic sonogram - the rport includes such things as normal bladder, normal ovaries, etc. With this info you could be able to dismiss whatever is written as coverup in current report.

Just a thought.

DUsty

-----Original Message-----From: VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of Sandi SharpSent: Monday, April 24, 2006 8:16 AMTo: VulvarDisorders Subject: RE: OT-Botched Hysterectomy

Hi Kristy and Dusty,

I know. I wish I could take action. But in the dr's mind everything went perfectly. He didn't slice my bladder in his opinion. Perhaps it got that way from my C-section years ago he said. The report said it didn't happen in the last 3 days!!! ( Either way he was supposed to check me thoroughly for endo and since he missed a big chunk of my bladder wall, how thorough could he have been?)

And my bleeding now is just granulation tissue, aka healing tissue. My husband points out that healing tissue is fine for several days after the operation, but at some point continued bleeding, especially a year later, means something is wrong. If I had neck surgery and a year later my neck was still bleeding it would be an obvious screw up. BUt no, this continued bleeding to him just falls under the common granulation tissue.

He disguised my chunk of bladder wall missing as " diverticulum" and continued bleeding as "granulation". Both are quite common he says.

It gets me soooo angry. Oh by the way, this was a different doc than the head of the ACOG. This doc was recommended to me by my therapist who is now my good friend as one of the best surgeons in the Yale community. She worked in several OBGYN practices and I respect her opinion. But he still botched my case up completely.

I have an appointment to go back to the former ACOG head to get his opinion on the continued bleeding and bladder wall problem. I have a good relationship with him. It will be interesting how much he sticks up for the doc who did my operation. I'll keep you posted.

Love,

Sandi

Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

I hope you can find something Sandi... That no good @$@##@ shouldn't be allowed to hurt women like that and get away with it. I hope the new doc helps you out and gets the bleeding and such to stop.

Dusty

-----Original Message-----From: VulvarDisorders [mailto:VulvarDisorders ] On Behalf Of Sandi SharpSent: Monday, April 24, 2006 4:10 PMTo: VulvarDisorders Subject: RE: OT-Botched Hysterectomy

Hi Dusty,

How obvious but yet brilliant! I had tons of imaging done - never of the bladder specifically, but the MRIs and ultrasounds and all of the CTscans and Xrays never showed anything wrong with the bladder. Hmmmm...

It was explained to me that the uterus and the bladder were once touching and since they were connected it would be hard to distinguish the separate walls of the two organs.

I will definitely ask the other gyn about this, not the same surgeon. You know, it's not like I want to sue the doc b/c doing that is really impossible, I just would like an explanation, apology and an end to the cover up, but that will never happen b/c he is afraid of a suit,

Thanks for this idea though. I know none of the reports ever said anything about a problem with the bladder. I'll look them over to see if they say anything good about it.

Sandi

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

[Guest guest]

Sandi,

You can take action by complaining to the Medical board. This

is where it needs to go even though in Dr. G's mind he thinks

what he thinks. And the reason he thinks what he thinks is b/c

he's trying to cover up his mistake by acting like he did

nothing wrong. Also, falsifying medical records is a federal

offense.

As I said before I'm going to ask my dr about granulation tissue

b/c I've never heard of this and it doesn't sound right. And as

far as I know with each of my surgeries (including the vulvar

surgery done by a urologist) I've never had granulation tissue

of any kind. So now you have me curious so will ask her about

this. I like to ask her stuff b/c I learn so much from her.

Let me see if I get this right. A different dr did your hyst

than Dr. G? Regardless the dr involved is covering their tracks

b/c they know that they may be about to get caught. But you

need to report this to the Medical board b/c if this dr isn't

reported they will be allowed to continue to hurt women.

And do not go back to Dr. G. The reason is b/c he hasn't been

of much help to you either from past experiences that I remember

you telling me (even though I don't remember specific details

right now thanks to the fibro).

Get another opinion from another dr in the area not affiliated

with the university or Dr. G's group. And he will stick up for

the other dr 100%. They are not good about policing themselves.

This is why I say don't go to him as well. Also, no gyn has

any business touching the bladder unless they are a urogyn

(pelvic floor specialists).

Kristy

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