Re: New onset atrial fib X 2

June 10, 2003

Dear Robbie,

It sure sounds familiar to me. Other members over the next day or so will

give alternative opinions and experiences. The usual scenario is for various

drugs to be tried before pulmonary vein isolation. The overall cure rate at

this time is about 85%, although it many times takes two procedures to cure the

problem. I was cured in 2, but my experience (from what I've learned here at

this site), was far rougher than most.

My suggestion would be for you to review a month or so of the previous

posts to this site. Although time consuming, it is well worth the effort as you

will encounter a number of posts with the similar questions, concerns and with

the answers they received, including questions and responses from me.

Everyone has their own reactions, from " let it be, " to " lets get

scientific " to " cure it nature's way " and so on to " Kill it before it multiplies "

--

my reaction.

Best wishes,

June 10, 2003

Welcome, and thanks for posting.

Regarding the your age and the procedure you are considering, I am in

a similar situation. That cardiologist says you are too young to be

taking the medications.

I am 41 (maybe not as young as you!) and my cardiologist says the

converse - I am too young to undergo a physical modification of

tissue with a procedure that is " not ready for prime time " in his

opinion. I have total control with Tambocor, and he prefers keeping

me on that until the procedure is more refined. He is an

Electrophysiologist who actually performs ablations. In my case, he

prefers the meds for me over physical modification, and I respect

that. He believed, as do I, that the procedure is rapidly evolving to

the point there will be further refinement in the procedures, in

particular, developments of new catheters and techniques.

If you look at the current recommended guides for treatment, your

cardiologist is jumping to the last step on the flow charts.

All that said, keep in mind I have total control with my meds with

minimal side effect, so it is easy for me to say. I am one of the

lucky ones (there are quite a few of us out here). If I had bad side

effects, annoying breakthrough afib or other problems, I would

probably be pushing my doc for ablation.

Bobby

>> snip <<

> Another cardiologist that I work with is suggesting Pulmonary Vein

> Isolation... He thinks that is the miracle I need to make me normal

> again without medications he says I am much too young to be

taking...

June 10, 2003

Hi I am 57 and have also decided to wait for further development in

ablations. I have afib once or twice a year and am on sotalol. The

specialist says the cut off age for doing the ablations is 70 so I will wait

a bit longer and see also.

>

>Reply-To: AFIBsupport

>To: AFIBsupport

>Subject: Re: New onset atrial fib X 2

>Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:42:40 -0000

>

>Welcome, and thanks for posting.

>

>Regarding the your age and the procedure you are considering, I am in

>a similar situation. That cardiologist says you are too young to be

>taking the medications.

>

>I am 41 (maybe not as young as you!) and my cardiologist says the

>converse - I am too young to undergo a physical modification of

>tissue with a procedure that is " not ready for prime time " in his

>opinion. I have total control with Tambocor, and he prefers keeping

>me on that until the procedure is more refined. He is an

>Electrophysiologist who actually performs ablations. In my case, he

>prefers the meds for me over physical modification, and I respect

>that. He believed, as do I, that the procedure is rapidly evolving to

>the point there will be further refinement in the procedures, in

>particular, developments of new catheters and techniques.

>

>If you look at the current recommended guides for treatment, your

>cardiologist is jumping to the last step on the flow charts.

>

>All that said, keep in mind I have total control with my meds with

>minimal side effect, so it is easy for me to say. I am one of the

>lucky ones (there are quite a few of us out here). If I had bad side

>effects, annoying breakthrough afib or other problems, I would

>probably be pushing my doc for ablation.

>

>Bobby

>

> >> snip <<

>

> > Another cardiologist that I work with is suggesting Pulmonary Vein

> > Isolation... He thinks that is the miracle I need to make me normal

> > again without medications he says I am much too young to be

>taking...

>

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June 10, 2003

Hi, Robbie,

Your doc seems quite aggressive. I had a similar experience when I

was first diagnosed, the cardio wanted me to take one of the super

meds. If it weren't for my internist saying Whoa, and having me wear

a heart monitor for awhile, I'd be on that instead of the simple beta

blocker.

I agree with Bobbie, ablations have improved a huge amount in the

past 2-3 years, but they do carry the risk of stenosis. Since they

are continuing to improve, myself I would try medications first.

The meds you are on are heavy duty stuff, and lanoxin/digoxin is

believed by some docs to cause a progression to permanent afib. The

heavy duty meds can actually cause arrhythmias in some people.

I found a beta blocker to be much more helpful, as it dampens down

adrenaline also. That is all I take now.

If you need more than that, I'd look at tikosyn/dofetilide which

seems to be generally successful and safe.

Also, cut out triggers, like caffiene, alcohol, indigestion, stress.

Of course, I am just a layperson.

June 10, 2003

p.s. Almost everyone is freaked out for awhile after the initial

afib diagnosis, and during attacks.

June 10, 2003

Hi Trudy your advice seems sound. I also take a betablocker an aspirin and

maybe some day when they have ablations more refined and my afib is more

frequent I may consider it

>

>Reply-To: AFIBsupport

>To: AFIBsupport

>Subject: Re: New onset atrial fib X 2

>Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 03:46:24 -0000

>

>Hi, Robbie,

>

>Your doc seems quite aggressive. I had a similar experience when I

>was first diagnosed, the cardio wanted me to take one of the super

>meds. If it weren't for my internist saying Whoa, and having me wear

>a heart monitor for awhile, I'd be on that instead of the simple beta

>blocker.

>

>I agree with Bobbie, ablations have improved a huge amount in the

>past 2-3 years, but they do carry the risk of stenosis. Since they

>are continuing to improve, myself I would try medications first.

>

>The meds you are on are heavy duty stuff, and lanoxin/digoxin is

>believed by some docs to cause a progression to permanent afib. The

>heavy duty meds can actually cause arrhythmias in some people.

>

>I found a beta blocker to be much more helpful, as it dampens down

>adrenaline also. That is all I take now.

>

>If you need more than that, I'd look at tikosyn/dofetilide which

>seems to be generally successful and safe.

>

>Also, cut out triggers, like caffiene, alcohol, indigestion, stress.

>

>Of course, I am just a layperson.

>

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June 10, 2003

Sorry about the above triple posts, I'm still trying to learn this

posting/reply system.

My doctor insisted that I take Xanax 3 times a day. We are both

almost postiive that alot of my episodes are brought on by stress.

However, I've been reading some information the COPD and AFIB

sometimes go hand in hand.

Doctor won't put me on Beta Blockers because of asthma.

June 11, 2003

Dear Robbie,

See:

http://www.a-fib.com/PersonalExperiences.htm

June 11, 2003

Hi, I also had a headache the times I had cardazem. I thought it was

from the cardazem, but I don't know.

Peggy

New onset atrial fib X 2

Hi it's me again..

Just wondering as I had a rather severe headache both times in fib

(especially the second time when it preceeded the fib).. if anyone

else had experienced this or if it could be related?

I also want to add that I appreciate everyones replies and it is good

to know I am not in this alone..

In addition I am still waiting to hear from someone who has had the

PVI procedure done and just what the outcome was, though in

thinking ... If one would have had that procedure and it was

successful they would have no reason to read these postings?

Hugs to all,

Robbie

June 11, 2003

Hi Robbie theres a great forum at afibbers.org

here is a link to someone who just had an ablation and her experience before and

after:

http://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?f=2 & i=13666 & t=13666

take care ..... Ella

New onset atrial fib X 2

Hi it's me again..

Just wondering as I had a rather severe headache both times in fib

(especially the second time when it preceeded the fib).. if anyone

else had experienced this or if it could be related?

I also want to add that I appreciate everyones replies and it is good

to know I am not in this alone..

In addition I am still waiting to hear from someone who has had the

PVI procedure done and just what the outcome was, though in

thinking ... If one would have had that procedure and it was

successful they would have no reason to read these postings?

Hugs to all,

Robbie

June 12, 2003

Robbie,

Over the last several weeks, there have been many postings of PVA

experiences.

Are you getting all the postings?

Rich O

June 12, 2003

Robbie,

You're not quite alone. I too get horrible headaches when in A Fib. In

fact, I feel the headache coming on before the actual A Fib. Apparently,

very few people experience headaches, as I have asked the same question

several times, and have received only one or two responses.

New onset atrial fib X 2

> Hi it's me again..

> Just wondering as I had a rather severe headache both times in fib

> (especially the second time when it preceeded the fib).. if anyone

> else had experienced this or if it could be related?

> I also want to add that I appreciate everyones replies and it is good

> to know I am not in this alone..

> In addition I am still waiting to hear from someone who has had the

> PVI procedure done and just what the outcome was, though in

> thinking ... If one would have had that procedure and it was

> successful they would have no reason to read these postings?

> Hugs to all,

> Robbie

>

> Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

> FAQ -

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

> For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

> Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

> List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

> Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

June 12, 2003

Anyone with information on the question below?

When the ablation procedure itself occurs, does one have to be in afib? I

just read the report linked below. (I was unaware of the Afib Report.)

My ablation is scheduled for next Friday (June 20).

On or off-list responses welcomed

Lew Koch

At 08:12 PM 6/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi Robbie theres a great forum at afibbers.org

>here is a link to someone who just had an ablation and her experience

>before and after:

>

><http://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?f=2 & i=13666 & t=13666>http://www.afibbers\

..org/forum/read.php?f=2 & i=13666 & t=13666

>

>take care ..... Ella

> New onset atrial fib X 2

<snip>

owner: AFIBsupport-owner

>For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

>send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

>

>Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

>be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

>

June 12, 2003

Hello , I don't know the answer to your question but good luck with the

ablation. Please let us know all about your experience.

>

>Reply-To: AFIBsupport

>To: AFIBsupport

>Subject: Re: New onset atrial fib X 2

>Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:42:10 -0500

>

>Anyone with information on the question below?

>

>When the ablation procedure itself occurs, does one have to be in afib? I

>just read the report linked below. (I was unaware of the Afib Report.)

>

>My ablation is scheduled for next Friday (June 20).

>

>On or off-list responses welcomed

>

>Lew Koch

>

>At 08:12 PM 6/11/2003 -0700, you wrote:

> >Hi Robbie theres a great forum at afibbers.org

> >here is a link to someone who just had an ablation and her experience

> >before and after:

> >

>

><http://www.afibbers.org/forum/read.php?f=2 & i=13666 & t=13666>http://www.afibbers\

..org/forum/read.php?f=2 & i=13666 & t=13666

> >

> >take care ..... Ella

> > New onset atrial fib X 2

><snip>

> owner: AFIBsupport-owner

> >For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

> >send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

> >

> >Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should

> >be acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

> >

June 12, 2003

Hi Lew

Good luck for you ablation next Friday.

ALL out thoughts from over the world will be with you.

Re AF while your on the table, I was in NSR the first time but the Dr was able

to turn this on and off at will with the catheter in side my Heart. The second

time I was in AF and they managed to get be up and running..

best regards

john C UK

Anyone with information on the question below?

When the ablation procedure itself occurs, does one have to be in afib? I

just read the report linked below. (I was unaware of the Afib Report.)

My ablation is scheduled for next Friday (June 20).

On or off-list responses welcomed

Lew Koch

Web Page - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport

FAQ - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AFIBsupport/files/Administrative/faq.htm

For more information: http://www.dialsolutions.com/af

Unsubscribe: AFIBsupport-unsubscribe

List owner: AFIBsupport-owner

For help on how to use the group, including how to drive it via email,

send a blank email to AFIBsupport-help

Nothing in this message should be considered as medical advice, or should be

acted upon without consultation with one's physician.

June 14, 2003

In a message dated 6/14/2003 4:34:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

eliza700@... writes:

<< When I was younger I got migraine headaches every month. One time

I had one, went outside and my daughter sprayed me with very cold water

from a hose. Boy was I mad but the supprising thing is the migraine went

away instantly, I was amazed. About the time the migraines disappeared

I started with a fib. Once when I went to the doctor he said when I

had afib to stick my face in cold water and I have also read that the

use ice and putting your face in cold water can make afib go away. >>

Peggy,

I, too, noticed that when my migraines decreased in frequency, afib seemed to

replace them. I was having migraines every Saturday for a while, then began

to have afib every Saturday instead. (This was about five years ago.) My

then cardiologist said that there could indeed be a connection between the

disappearing migraines and the afib which seemed to be replacing them on the

Saturday schedule.

Regarding the ice water, another doctor told me that would help, and it did

for a while when my afib was " younger " and more symptomatic. I can recall one

occasion about eight years ago when was using a shovel to knock snow off of

the branches of an evergreen tree because the snow-laden branches were resting

on a power line. (Yes, I have since realized that activity was rather foolish

and dangerous. I could have experienced cardioversion without the paddles!)

Anyway, a huge load of snow fell in my face, and instantly I was back in sinus.

After that, I sometimes tried suddenly cold showers to get rid of afib, and

the trick sometimes worked but only for a couple of years. The cold water no

longer seems to work for me, but it is a well-known remedy for some people.

in sinus in Seattle

June 14, 2003

I get a lot of headaches, but never notice if it is a predecessor to

AF. I also get angina type jaw pain when in AF.

> Robbie,

SNIP

coming on before the actual A Fib. Apparently,

> very few people experience headaches, SNIP.

> New onset atrial fib X 2

>

> > Hi it's me again..

> > Just wondering as I had a rather severe headache both times in fib

> > (especially the second time when it preceeded the fib).. if anyone

> > else had experienced this or if it could be related?

SNIP

June 14, 2003

Hi, When I was younger I got migraine headaches every month. One time

I had one, went outside and my daughter sprayed me with very cold water

from a hose. Boy was I mad but the supprising thing is the migraine went

away instantly, I was amazed. About the time the migraines disappeared

I started with a fib. Once when I went to the doctor he said when I

had afib to stick my face in cold water and I have also read that the

use ice and putting your face in cold water can make afib go away. I

wonder if there is a connection???? I have had no luck with ice on my

face taking away afib. I would think this constricts the blood

vessels. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this or has ice helped

you afib.

Peggy

Re: New onset atrial fib X 2

I get a lot of headaches, but never notice if it is a predecessor to

AF. I also get angina type jaw pain when in AF.

> Robbie,

SNIP

coming on before the actual A Fib. Apparently,

> very few people experience headaches, SNIP.

> New onset atrial fib X 2

>

> > Hi it's me again..

> > Just wondering as I had a rather severe headache both times in fib

> > (especially the second time when it preceeded the fib).. if anyone

> > else had experienced this or if it could be related?

SNIP

June 14, 2003

, I have found that when in afib that noise " shocks " my system

and is unbearable. I sometimes have a jolt when returning to NSR or a

shiver and then a head to toe sweat when returning to NSR.

Wondering if the cold snow in face or cold showers could have been

a " shock " to the system that caused the NSR to return??

Cheryl

SNIP

> Anyway, a huge load of snow fell in my face, and instantly I was

back in sinus.

SNIP

>> in sinus in Seattle

June 15, 2003

In a message dated 6/15/2003 7:05:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Robbie@... writes:

<< As for the ice water thingy... It may cause your heart rate to slow...

but not take away the fibrillation.

It can actually be a dangerous thing though some docs still resort to it to

promote a vagal response thus slowing the pulse. Of course the patient is

monitored while this is done. >>

How could this be dangerous? For years I have used an ice pack on my face

and head for migraine with no problems. Is it the sudden shock that causes the

problem? Somehow I can't see how putting ice on one's face could be in the

same league as messing around with the carotid artery. That is another Valsalva

maneuver against which my doctor warned me. That apparently could be

dangerous.

in sinus in Seattle

June 15, 2003

Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 19:33:17 -0400

Subject: RE: Re: New onset atrial fib X 2