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Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

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Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.

I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of the body...and what exactly do

they mean

by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.

I think it is speculation.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't

> >>>>> have

> >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as

legitimate

> >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides

> >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on the body. If

a

> >>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively diagnosed

> >>>>> with

> >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were, thought

they

> >>>>> were

> >>>>> invisible bruises!

> >>>>>

> >>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance

> >>>>> in

> >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a

> >>>>> system-wide

> >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the body. His

> >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion and thus

> >>>>> allow

> >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying it, but

> >>>>> still

> >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with it (small

> >>>>> meals,

> >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Bindi

> >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form

of

> >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has

> >>>>> certain

> >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As

such,

> >>>>> there

> >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

> >>>>> that

> >>>>> those

> >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

> >>>>> understand

> >>>>> the

> >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

> >>>>> had

> >>>>> fibro

> >>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning

up

> >>>>> my

> >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

> >>>>> changing

> >>>>> my

> >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

> >>>>> totally

> >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Kenda

> >>>>>

> >>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and

after

> >>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are

> >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always have it " and

> >>>>>> that

> >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been told.

> >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop " waiting " to

> >>>>>> get

> >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other

> >>>>>> symptoms

> >>>>>> are

> >>>>>> temporary.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with

implants,

> >>>>>> I

> >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the

time.

> >>>>>> I

> >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I

> >>>>>> suffer

> >>>>>> for

> >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery

symptoms?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> >

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>> --

> >>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> >>>>> rates.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Guest guest

No, Molly, it isn't speculation. Perhaps you should research detoxing and

learn exactly how it does pull toxins from the body. As a matter of fact,

heavy detoxing even pulls hormones from the body and can alter hormone

readings.

Instead of slamming what you don't understand, perhaps you should do more

research and educate yourself.

Kenda

> Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.

>

> I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of the body...and what exactly do

> they mean

> by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.

> I think it is speculation.

>

>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't

>>>>>>> have

>>>>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as

>>>>>>> legitimate

>>>>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides

>>>>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on the body. If

>>>>>>> a

>>>>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively diagnosed

>>>>>>> with

>>>>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were, thought

>>>>>>> they

>>>>>>> were

>>>>>>> invisible bruises!

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance

>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a

>>>>>>> system-wide

>>>>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the body. His

>>>>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion and thus

>>>>>>> allow

>>>>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying it, but

>>>>>>> still

>>>>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with it (small

>>>>>>> meals,

>>>>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Anyone else tried this?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form

>>>>>>> of

>>>>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has

>>>>>>> certain

>>>>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As

>>>>>>> such,

>>>>>>> there

>>>>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>> those

>>>>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

>>>>>>> understand

>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

>>>>>>> had

>>>>>>> fibro

>>>>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning

>>>>>>> up

>>>>>>> my

>>>>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

>>>>>>> changing

>>>>>>> my

>>>>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

>>>>>>> totally

>>>>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Kenda

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and

>>>>>>>> after

>>>>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are

>>>>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always have it " and

>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been told.

>>>>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop " waiting " to

>>>>>>>> get

>>>>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other

>>>>>>>> symptoms

>>>>>>>> are

>>>>>>>> temporary.

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with

>>>>>>>> implants,

>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the

>>>>>>>> time.

>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I

>>>>>>>> suffer

>>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery

>>>>>>>> symptoms?

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>> --

>>>>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

>>>>>>> rates.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

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Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this. I agree that we can't say what anyone needs to do....everything submitted here is for suggestion only, and we state as much with our many disclaimers. Everyone needs to be responsible for the choices they make regarding healing and health. However, Molly, I beg to differ with you on the broad general comment you make about "We have no proof that any of this detox is useful or even safe." Wow, talk about stirring up a hornet's nest on that! You probably offend thousands upon thousands of people across this land and around the world with that comment, and who could provide testimony that the detox methods they've used are effective and safe (me included.) There are a gazillion websites and books available on detoxing that has cured them of many ailments. Not only that, Dr. Gerson, an Austrian Jew who was brilliant, used detoxification as his main "cure" for

cancer and his successes have been well documented. Oh Molly, please do some more research before you make such inflammatory statements! Didn't you go to Dr. Kolb? Doesn't she use detoxing methods to help her patients? I wonder if she would agree with your statement.... You may not have had to do anything special, and I am happy for you. But not all people have the same outcome. Some have to take extra steps to make their bodies work better. No, I don't want to see people having to spend alot of money on detoxing either, but if the alternative is seeing MD's who write Rx's for drugs, is that money spent any better? If they keep you sick in the long run, I have to wonder???? If I had to pick between the two, I'd rather spend money on more natural supplements that won't kill me. I've known alot of women healing from implant

illness....the ones that made the most impact in my life and helped me get on track to a normal life again were those who followed natural healing and alternative medicine therapies. I got most of my info from them, and that is what set me on the right course. I am eternally grateful for them. Wishing you continued wellness, Patty Molly Bloom <mollyb54@...> wrote: I have to disagree here. Our bodies are great detox machines. I have done nothing special

since my 20 year old ruptured implants were removed. I am eating properly now, and that is all. My health has radically improved, and I was very very sick. I know women who have spent a fortune on 'natural' products that do no good at all. We have no proof that any of this detox is useful or even safe.I also really worry about people here giving medical advice. We can certainly suggest what helped us, but to tell someone else what they need to do is crossing a line, imho.Sorry if I sound put out here, but I think it is dangerous to tell women what they 'need' to do.> > > > I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't have> > fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate> > disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides> > symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of "tender points" on the body. If a> > person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively diagnosed with> > FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were, thought they

were> > invisible bruises!> > > > There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance in> > phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a system-wide> > cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the body. His> > protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion and thus allow> > cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying it, but still> > haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with it (small meals,> > lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).> > > > Anyone else tried this?> > > > Bindi> > > > Bindi> > Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> > > > > > Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> > definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> > certain> > symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> > there> > are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe that> > those> > of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't understand> > the> > reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I had> > fibro> > is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up my> > liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took changing> > my> > diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was totally>

> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> > > > Kenda> > > >> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> >> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are> >> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will "always have it" and that> >> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> >> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop "waiting" to get> >> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other symptoms> >> are> >> temporary.> >> > >> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with implants, I> >> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the time. I> >> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I

suffer> >> for> >> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> >> > >> Bindi> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------> > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.> > > >>

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

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Molly, have you ever read the information provided by the man who used coffee enemas to cure cancer? Dr. Max Gerson is his name. He was an Austrian Jew that survived the Holocaust, while the rest of his family perished. HE was a genius, and he suffered greatly to make sure the rest of the world had the necessary information to heal from cancer. He lived a sacrificial life so that others would live with health. See www.gerson.org. Don't be so quick to judge something that you have not researched fully. Coffee enemas are not harmful. If you read information from those who have a vested interest in suppressing cancer cures, you are going to get less than truthful "facts" or opinions. I don't have to rehash that subject, right? I mean, follow the money, follow the money, follow the money..... An MD here in Las Vegas that my husband and I went to see told us that he has done them for 20 years--EVERY DAY. When I asked him about possible health concerns from doing them too often, that is when he emailed me about his consistent use of them. He has not been harmed, and he recommends them to everyone. My husband and I have done coffee enemas for the past 5 years or so. No harm here! PattyMolly Bloom <mollyb54@...> wrote: I didn't mean to

sound so harsh, Kendra. I'm sorry.It concerns me that so many women who have little money spend it on things of dubious benefit. And yes, there are many things in traditional medicine that are worthless. There is a lot of money in pharmaceuticals, for example, that are often dangerous. But there is also a lot of money in 'natural' preparations that may be equally dangerous.For example, I have read some alarming reports that coffee enemas are harmful. I don't know if they are or are not, but I know I will never use one.> >>> > >>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't> >>> have> >>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate> >>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides> >>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of "tender points" on the body. If a> >>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively diagnosed with> >>> FMS. I have those 18

points and I never knew what they were, thought they> >>> were> >>> invisible bruises!> >>> > >>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance in> >>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a system-wide> >>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the body. His> >>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion and thus> >>> allow> >>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying it, but> >>> still> >>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with it (small> >>> meals,> >>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).> >>> > >>> Anyone else tried this?> >>> > >>> Bindi>

>>> > >>> Bindi> >>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> >>> > >>> > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> >>> certain> >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> >>> there> >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe that> >>> those> >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't understand>

>>> the> >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I had> >>> fibro> >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> >>> my> >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> >>> changing> >>> my> >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was totally> >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> >>> > >>> Kenda> >>> > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are> >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will "always have it" and> >>>> that> >>>> it "can't be

cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop "waiting" to get> >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other symptoms> >>>> are> >>>> temporary.> >>>> > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with implants, I> >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the time. I> >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I suffer> >>>> for> >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> >>>> > >>>> Bindi> >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>

> >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------> > --> >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> >>> rates.> >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > > >> __________________________________________________

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Molly, I think we do know, perhaps not in all products, but we know how and why it works in juicing, in coffee enemas, in colonics, in ozone therapy, in sauna therapy, in rebounding.... There is information out there if you research it and look for it. For example, in the coffee enema, it has been discovered why it works so effectively for detoxification. Read it yourself: "Gerson knew that the coffee enema dilated the bile ducts and caused a flushing of toxic bile from the liver. (Drinking coffee constricts the bile ducts). He also knew that this was the most effective method for detoxification. Since Gerson's time various active ingredients in coffee have been identified and most interestingly, the palmitates present in coffee increase the binding of toxic elements by the bile 7-fold and this enzyme-enhancing ability in the liver and small intestine does not allow

reabsorption of the toxic bile. Mostcholerectic herbs do not ensure this complete removal of toxins but only an increase in bile flow."From "Detoxing and the Flagging Liver(part 2 of 3)by (From Gerson Healing Newsletter Vol. 15, No. 3, May-June, 2000) http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm Molly, I know you are concerned for women using various products and spending large amounts of money. I am too. But we are smart women. We are here to share what has worked for us. I've seen this alarmist attitude before when it comes to women healing from implants and using non-traditional healing methods. All I can say is that we need to be able to look outside the box, because staying narrow minded when it comes to medicine takes us down the path the MD's had us on to begin with, and it

led to disaster. PattyMolly Bloom <mollyb54@...> wrote: Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of the body...and what exactly do they mean by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.I think it is speculation.> >>>>> > >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't> >>>>> have> >>>>> fibro. It's interesting,

the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate> >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides> >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of "tender points" on the body. If a> >>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively diagnosed> >>>>> with> >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were, thought they> >>>>> were> >>>>> invisible bruises!> >>>>> > >>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance> >>>>> in> >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a> >>>>> system-wide> >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the body. His>

>>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion and thus> >>>>> allow> >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying it, but> >>>>> still> >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with it (small> >>>>> meals,> >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).> >>>>> > >>>>> Anyone else tried this?> >>>>> > >>>>> Bindi> >>>>> > >>>>> Bindi> >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> >>>>> certain> >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> >>>>> there> >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe> >>>>> that> >>>>> those> >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't> >>>>> understand> >>>>> the> >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I> >>>>> had>

>>>>> fibro> >>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> >>>>> my> >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> >>>>> changing> >>>>> my> >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was> >>>>> totally> >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> >>>>> > >>>>> Kenda> >>>>> > >>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> >>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are> >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will "always have it" and> >>>>>>

that> >>>>>> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop "waiting" to> >>>>>> get> >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other> >>>>>> symptoms> >>>>>> are> >>>>>> temporary.> >>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with implants,> >>>>>> I> >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the time.> >>>>>> I> >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I> >>>>>> suffer> >>>>>> for>

>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> >>>>>> > >>>>>> Bindi> >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------> >>> --> >>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> >>>>> rates.> >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > >

>>

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Well said, Patty.

Lynda

At 10:07 PM 9/13/2006, you wrote:

>Molly,

>I think we do know, perhaps not in all products,

>but we know how and why it works in juicing, in

>coffee enemas, in colonics, in ozone therapy, in

>sauna therapy, in rebounding.... There is

>information out there if you research it and look for it.

>

>For example, in the coffee enema, it has been

>discovered why it works so effectively for detoxification. Read it yourself:

>

> " Gerson knew that the coffee enema dilated the

>bile ducts and caused a flushing

>of toxic bile from the liver. (Drinking coffee constricts the bile ducts). He

>also knew that this was the most effective

>method for detoxification. Since Gerson's time

>various active ingredients in coffee have been identified and

>most interestingly, the palmitates present in coffee increase the binding of

>toxic elements by the bile 7-fold and this enzyme-enhancing ability in the

>liver and small intestine does not allow reabsorption of the toxic bile. Most

>cholerectic herbs do not ensure this complete removal of toxins but only an

>increase in bile flow. "

>From " Detoxing and the Flagging Liver(part 2 of 3)by

>(From Gerson Healing Newsletter Vol. 15, No. 3, May-June, 2000)

><http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm>http://www.gerson.\

org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm

>

>Molly, I know you are concerned for women using

>various products and spending large amounts of

>money. I am too. But we are smart women. We

>are here to share what has worked for us. I've

>seen this alarmist attitude before when it comes

>to women healing from implants and using

>non-traditional healing methods. All I can say

>is that we need to be able to look outside the

>box, because staying narrow minded when it comes

>to medicine takes us down the path the MD's had

>us on to begin with, and it led to disaster.

>Patty

>

>Molly Bloom <mollyb54@...> wrote:

>Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.

>

>I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of

>the body...and what exactly do they mean

>by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.

>I think it is speculation.

>

>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I don't

> > >>>>> have

> > >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has

> recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate

> > >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides

> > >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs

> of " tender points " on the body. If a

> > >>>>> person has these eighteen painful

> areas, they are positively diagnosed

> > >>>>> with

> > >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never

> knew what they were, thought they

> > >>>>> were

> > >>>>> invisible bruises!

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance

> > >>>>> in

> > >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a

> > >>>>> system-wide

> > >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be

> triggered by trauma to the body. His

> > >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to

> regulate phosphate excretion and thus

> > >>>>> allow

> > >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've

> been thinking of trying it, but

> > >>>>> still

> > >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a

> hypoglycemic diet along with it (small

> > >>>>> meals,

> > >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Bindi

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Bindi

> > >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of

> > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has

> > >>>>> certain

> > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,

> > >>>>> there

> > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

> > >>>>> that

> > >>>>> those

> > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

> > >>>>> understand

> > >>>>> the

> > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

> > >>>>> had

> > >>>>> fibro

> > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up

> > >>>>> my

> > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

> > >>>>> changing

> > >>>>> my

> > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

> > >>>>> totally

> > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>> Kenda

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>> I was just curious if having

> fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after

> > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having

> fibromyalgia? Most women who are

> > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told

> that they will " always have it " and

> > >>>>>> that

> > >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been told.

> > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should

> just accept it and stop " waiting " to

> > >>>>>> get

> > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other

> > >>>>>> symptoms

> > >>>>>> are

> > >>>>>> temporary.

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel

> far better now than with implants,

> > >>>>>> I

> > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint

> pain and I'm exhausted all the time.

> > >>>>>> I

> > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I

> > >>>>>> suffer

> > >>>>>> for

> > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or

> typical post-implant recovery symptoms?

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>> Bindi

> > >>>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>

> > >

>----------------------------------------------------------

> > >>> --

> > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> > >>>>> rates.

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>>

> > >>>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>Get your email and more, right on the

><http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview>new .com

>

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Thanks Lynda....by the way, you were one of my "angels" that led me down the right path! As I said, I am eternally grateful for your kindness, your information, your compassion, your tenacity with this issue, and your presence. Without the kind help of women like you (and Ilena, Marti, Barbara, and a host of other women), I have no idea where I would be! Hugs, PattyLynda <coss@...> wrote: Well said, Patty.LyndaAt 10:07 PM 9/13/2006, you

wrote:>Molly,>I think we do know, perhaps not in all products, >but we know how and why it works in juicing, in >coffee enemas, in colonics, in ozone therapy, in >sauna therapy, in rebounding.... There is >information out there if you research it and look for it.>>For example, in the coffee enema, it has been >discovered why it works so effectively for detoxification. Read it yourself:>>"Gerson knew that the coffee enema dilated the >bile ducts and caused a flushing>of toxic bile from the liver. (Drinking coffee constricts the bile ducts). He>also knew that this was the most effective >method for detoxification. Since Gerson's time >various active ingredients in coffee have been identified and>most interestingly, the palmitates present in coffee increase the binding of>toxic elements by the bile 7-fold and this enzyme-enhancing ability in

the>liver and small intestine does not allow reabsorption of the toxic bile. Most>cholerectic herbs do not ensure this complete removal of toxins but only an>increase in bile flow.">From "Detoxing and the Flagging Liver(part 2 of 3)by >(From Gerson Healing Newsletter Vol. 15, No. 3, May-June, 2000)><http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm>http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm>>Molly, I know you are concerned for women using >various products and spending large amounts of >money. I am too. But we are smart women. We >are here to share what has worked for us. I've >seen this alarmist attitude before when it comes >to women healing from

implants and using >non-traditional healing methods. All I can say >is that we need to be able to look outside the >box, because staying narrow minded when it comes >to medicine takes us down the path the MD's had >us on to begin with, and it led to disaster.>Patty>>Molly Bloom <mollyb54bellsouth (DOT) net> wrote:>Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.>>I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of >the body...and what exactly do they mean>by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.>I think it is speculation.>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I

don't> > >>>>> have> > >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has > recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate> > >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides> > >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs > of "tender points" on the body. If a> > >>>>> person has these eighteen painful > areas, they are positively diagnosed> > >>>>> with> > >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never > knew what they were, thought they> > >>>>> were> > >>>>> invisible bruises!> > >>>>>> > >>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a disturbance> > >>>>> in> > >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing

phosphate build-up, resulting in a> > >>>>> system-wide> > >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be > triggered by trauma to the body. His> > >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to > regulate phosphate excretion and thus> > >>>>> allow> > >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've > been thinking of trying it, but> > >>>>> still> > >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a > hypoglycemic diet along with it (small> > >>>>> meals,> > >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Anyone else tried this?> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Bindi> > >>>>>> > >>>>>

Bindi> > >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> > >>>>> certain> > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> > >>>>> there> > >>>>> are

many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe> > >>>>> that> > >>>>> those> > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't> > >>>>> understand> > >>>>> the> > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I> > >>>>> had> > >>>>> fibro> > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> > >>>>> my> > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> > >>>>> changing> > >>>>> my> > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was> > >>>>> totally> > >>>>>

symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Kenda> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I was just curious if having > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having > fibromyalgia? Most women who are> > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told > that they will "always have it" and> > >>>>>> that> > >>>>>> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should > just accept it and stop "waiting" to> > >>>>>> get> > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other> > >>>>>>

symptoms> > >>>>>> are> > >>>>>> temporary.> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel > far better now than with implants,> > >>>>>> I> > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.> > >>>>>> I> > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I> > >>>>>> suffer> > >>>>>> for> > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> Bindi> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >

>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>----------------------------------------------------------> > >>> --> > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> > >>>>> rates.> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >>>>>Get your email and more, right on the ><http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview>new .com>

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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You are welcome, Patty, but, as they say, you can

lead a horse to water but.............

Not to say you are a horse, by the way, but you

have to be open to the info. and then act on it. And boy, have you done that.

I think when it comes down to it, we are all

responsible for our direction, and I had some

" angels " of my own when I was so ill, so I feel

that the best thing we can all do is pass it on

to others who are open to hearing it. I have

always felt that information was only there to share.

Lynda

At 10:33 PM 9/13/2006, you wrote:

>Thanks Lynda....by the way, you were one of my

> " angels " that led me down the right path! As I

>said, I am eternally grateful for your kindness,

>your information, your compassion, your tenacity

>with this issue, and your presence. Without the

>kind help of women like you (and Ilena, Marti,

>Barbara, and a host of other women), I have no idea where I would be!

>Hugs,

>Patty

>

>Lynda <coss@...> wrote:

>Well said, Patty.

>

>Lynda

>

>At 10:07 PM 9/13/2006, you wrote:

>

> >Molly,

> >I think we do know, perhaps not in all products,

> >but we know how and why it works in juicing, in

> >coffee enemas, in colonics, in ozone therapy, in

> >sauna therapy, in rebounding.... There is

> >information out there if you research it and look for it.

> >

> >For example, in the coffee enema, it has been

> >discovered why it works so effectively for detoxification. Read it yourself:

> >

> > " Gerson knew that the coffee enema dilated the

> >bile ducts and caused a flushing

> >of toxic bile from the liver. (Drinking coffee

> constricts the bile ducts). He

> >also knew that this was the most effective

> >method for detoxification. Since Gerson's time

> >various active ingredients in coffee have been identified and

> >most interestingly, the palmitates present in coffee increase the binding of

> >toxic elements by the bile 7-fold and this enzyme-enhancing ability in the

> >liver and small intestine does not allow

> reabsorption of the toxic bile. Most

> >cholerectic herbs do not ensure this complete removal of toxins but only an

> >increase in bile flow. "

> >From " Detoxing and the Flagging Liver(part 2 of 3)by

> >(From Gerson Healing Newsletter Vol. 15, No. 3, May-June, 2000)

> ><<http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_det

>

oxingliver.htm>http://www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm>http:\

//www.gerson.org/healing/articles/nl_detoxingliver.htm

> >

> >Molly, I know you are concerned for women using

> >various products and spending large amounts of

> >money. I am too. But we are smart women. We

> >are here to share what has worked for us. I've

> >seen this alarmist attitude before when it comes

> >to women healing from implants and using

> >non-traditional healing methods. All I can say

> >is that we need to be able to look outside the

> >box, because staying narrow minded when it comes

> >to medicine takes us down the path the MD's had

> >us on to begin with, and it led to disaster.

> >Patty

> >

> >Molly Bloom <<mailto:mollyb54%40bellsouth.net>mollyb54@...> wrote:

> >Exactly, Kenda. And that is my suspicion of many of these kinds of things.

> >

> >I hear women talk about 'pulling' toxins out of

> >the body...and what exactly do they mean

> >by that? How do certain preparations do that? I don't think we know.

> >I think it is speculation.

> >

> >

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe

> me, I want to believe it I don't

> > > >>>>> have

> > > >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has

> > recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate

> > > >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS besides

> > > >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs

> > of " tender points " on the body. If a

> > > >>>>> person has these eighteen painful

> > areas, they are positively diagnosed

> > > >>>>> with

> > > >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never

> > knew what they were, thought they

> > > >>>>> were

> > > >>>>> invisible bruises!

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> There is one researcher who says that

> FMS is caused by a disturbance

> > > >>>>> in

> > > >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in a

> > > >>>>> system-wide

> > > >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be

> > triggered by trauma to the body. His

> > > >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to

> > regulate phosphate excretion and thus

> > > >>>>> allow

> > > >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've

> > been thinking of trying it, but

> > > >>>>> still

> > > >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a

> > hypoglycemic diet along with it (small

> > > >>>>> meals,

> > > >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of

> > > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has

> > > >>>>> certain

> > > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,

> > > >>>>> there

> > > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

> > > >>>>> that

> > > >>>>> those

> > > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

> > > >>>>> understand

> > > >>>>> the

> > > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

> > > >>>>> had

> > > >>>>> fibro

> > > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here

> do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > >>>>> my

> > > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

> > > >>>>> changing

> > > >>>>> my

> > > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

> > > >>>>> totally

> > > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>> Kenda

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I was just curious if having

> > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after

> > > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having

> > fibromyalgia? Most women who are

> > > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told

> > that they will " always have it " and

> > > >>>>>> that

> > > >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been told.

> > > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should

> > just accept it and stop " waiting " to

> > > >>>>>> get

> > > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other

> > > >>>>>> symptoms

> > > >>>>>> are

> > > >>>>>> temporary.

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel

> > far better now than with implants,

> > > >>>>>> I

> > > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint

> > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.

> > > >>>>>> I

> > > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor

> how much energy I expend, or I

> > > >>>>>> suffer

> > > >>>>>> for

> > > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or

> > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> >----------------------------------------------------------

> > > >>> --

> > > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out

> Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> > > >>>>> rates.

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>>

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >Get your email and more, right on the

> ><<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www.

>

/preview>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview\

>new

> .com

> >

>

>

>

> Messenger with Voice.

><http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd./evt=3\

9663/*http://voice.>Make

>PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

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I have to say that I have aways been somewhat suspicious of allopathic medicine (except as a diagnostic tool and for emergency/critical care) and have always felt more comfortable with a natural approach (an example: my three children were born at home with no meds). I do, however, believe that there are as many con-men in the "alternative medicine" field as there are bad doctors in the traditional medical establishment. The natural medicine field is vast, and a good part of it is driven by money and is not very well-regulated.

I get what Molly is saying: We need to be careful not to jump on any health-treatment bandwagon without first doing the research for ourselves and then trying to make as informed a decision as possible. I also understand Patty's point, that there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence showing that many people have been healed with alternative medicine and that it is a legitimate branch of the healing arts.

My general policy with any treatment I am considering is to see what scientific research has been conducted on it, and make my decision on sound science. This isn't always easy, as some natural therapies haven't been studied extensively yet, but still there is a lot of info out there. You can look up PubMed articles for controlled studies. There are some natural products and treatments that have been studied extensively and have been found to be useless, while others have been shown to be very promising. Melatonin is a perfect example-- the many studies done have shown that it has no more significant impact on insomnia than a placebo. St. 's Wort , on the other hand, has been proven in controlled studies to be effective for treating mild to moderate depression.

Just because somebody (or even many people) claim something works doesn't make it so. Repeating an experiment over and over to prove the claim is much more accurate.

The fact is, we still don't know exactly why some breast implanted women get sick. There are many women who have had implants for years and never get sick. And there are some of us who get sick immediately. It's strange how some of us do, and some don't. Though Kenda's "fibro" symptoms were healed by detoxing, I'm not entirely convinced my own symptoms are from a toxic liver, but I am willing to suspend my skepticism and try some well-researched liver-detoxing therapies because I don't think it will hurt me to try. What I understand about coffee enemas, for example, is that there is some sound research currently being conducted on it but has not been completed. I will probably wait for the results, not because I don't believe this treatment will work, but because I want to be sure whatever I spend time and money on has a fighting chance. But heck, if Prince does 'em, they can't be that bad. What I don't understand is why the Gerson Institute charges so much for treatment--$4,900 week? Must be some pretty good coffee they are using! :)

That said, I do believe in the validity of a natural therapy born of many years of good results, even if no definitive studies have yet been done. I tend to trust the sciences of chinese medicine and ayurveda, for example, for their consistency and longevity-- they've been around for millenia and so have had time to work out the kinks. And my own step-uncle was diagnosed with inoperable cancer and given a month to live, and he left the hospital and went home and switched to eating raw foods-- he lived another eight years, and they were really good, healthy, happy years. Those of us in his family are 100% convinced he lived on because of his diet. Sadly, he died last year.

There is no magic cure, no perfect world. Some of what we are blessed or cursed with is just how our particular cards fell. Things go in cycles of harmony and disharmony, and we can only do so much to influence this. Some of it just is! But I think the capacity for compassion that we have is a precious gift, to help ease the suffering of others as best we can. I really appreciate the kindness and thoughtfulness that are offered freely every day by everyone on this list.

xo

Bindi

Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> > > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> > > >>>>> certain> > > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> > > >>>>> there> > > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe> > > >>>>> that> > > >>>>> those> > > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't> > > >>>>> understand> > > >>>>> the> > > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I> > > >>>>> had> > > >>>>> fibro> > > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here > do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> > > >>>>> my> > > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> > > >>>>> changing> > > >>>>> my> > > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was> > > >>>>> totally> > > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> Kenda> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I was just curious if having> > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> > > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having> > fibromyalgia? Most women who are> > > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told> > that they will "always have it" and> > > >>>>>> that> > > >>>>>> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> > > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should> > just accept it and stop "waiting" to> > > >>>>>> get> > > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other> > > >>>>>> symptoms> > > >>>>>> are> > > >>>>>> temporary.> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel> > far better now than with implants,> > > >>>>>> I> > > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint> > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.> > > >>>>>> I> > > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor > how much energy I expend, or I> > > >>>>>> suffer> > > >>>>>> for> > > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or> > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> Bindi> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >> >----------------------------------------------------------> > > >>> --> > > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out > Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> > > >>>>> rates.> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >Get your email and more, right on the> ><<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www. > /preview>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview>new > .com> >>>>> Messenger with Voice. ><http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd./evt=39663/*http://voice.>Make >PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.>

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I have been told by my rheumy that he is glad I am on the right track

and trying to stay off meds and using supplements. But when I ended

up in the ER last night with blood pressure of 166 I was scolded for

taking all these supplements. Some doctors consider them over the

counter medication and they were very upset with me when I told them

I was taking the supplements that I had heard about on a this support

group, when I mentioned Dr. Kolb they asked me well have you

personally seen her? I was very upset and crying because I didn't

feel well at all but also made me stop and think about putting all

this stuff in my body. Just my 2 cents.

Terri P

> > >>>

> > >>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

it I don't

> > >>> have

> > >>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

as legitimate

> > >>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

besides

> > >>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

the body. If a

> > >>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

diagnosed with

> > >>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

thought they

> > >>> were

> > >>> invisible bruises!

> > >>>

> > >>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

disturbance in

> > >>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

in a system-wide

> > >>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

body. His

> > >>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

excretion and thus

> > >>> allow

> > >>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

trying it, but

> > >>> still

> > >>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

it (small

> > >>> meals,

> > >>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > >>>

> > >>> Anyone else tried this?

> > >>>

> > >>> Bindi

> > >>>

> > >>> Bindi

> > >>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

Illness

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

any form of

> > >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

patient has

> > >>> certain

> > >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

symptoms. As such,

> > >>> there

> > >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

doctors believe that

> > >>> those

> > >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

don't understand

> > >>> the

> > >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

the reason I had

> > >>> fibro

> > >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

toxicity. Cleaning up

> > >>> my

> > >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

It took

> > >>> changing

> > >>> my

> > >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

I was totally

> > >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > >>>

> > >>> Kenda

> > >>>

> > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

during and after

> > >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

women who are

> > >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

have it " and

> > >>>> that

> > >>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

told.

> > >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

stop " waiting " to get

> > >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

other symptoms

> > >>>> are

> > >>>> temporary.

> > >>>>

> > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

with implants, I

> > >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

all the time. I

> > >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

expend, or I suffer

> > >>>> for

> > >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

recovery symptoms?

> > >>>>

> > >>>> Bindi

> > >>>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

> > > --

> > >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

Phone call

> > >>> rates.

> > >>>

> > >>>

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

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I guess another question to ask is how safe is it for us to treat ourselves outside a trained professional's (i.e. N.D., acupuncturist, etc) care? Who knows if the supplements Terri was taking are the right combo for her? Health is so complex.

Bindi

Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> > >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> > >>> certain> > >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> > >>> there> > >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe that> > >>> those> > >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't understand> > >>> the> > >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I had> > >>> fibro> > >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> > >>> my> > >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> > >>> changing> > >>> my> > >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was totally> > >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> > >>> > > >>> Kenda> > >>> > > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> > >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women who are> > >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will "always have it" and> > >>>> that> > >>>> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> > >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and stop "waiting" to get> > >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other symptoms> > >>>> are> > >>>> temporary.> > >>>> > > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with implants, I> > >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted all the time. I> > >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend, or I suffer> > >>>> for> > >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> > >>>> > > >>>> Bindi> > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------> > > --> > >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> > >>> rates.> > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> >>

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Kenda, I have to agree about health food store products, in general,

not being of high quality...some say natural source and that can be

as little as 5% natural stuff in them. I choose to use Herbalife

now, tested and true, basically concentrated food - also have used

Shaklee, Malaleuca -- all good products. There are alot of quality

companies out there....a few years ago I looked in my cupboards and

they were filled with half-filled bottles of supplements I had

purchased in desparation, some at pharmacies and some at health food

stores, during a financial crunch. I vowed never to do that again.

If it isn't concentrated food, i.e. organic -- our bodies cannot

utilize it. Taking synthetic vitamins is like whipping a tired

horse - will he move if you whip him, yes! Once you stop whipping he

won't get up. Our cells get " stimulated " by synthetic products,

giving a false sense of energy & health. Once I stopped taking the

synthetic, or poor quality supplements I still had poor health. My

cells simply did not absorb the vitamins and produce healthy cells.

I was tired again, and on and on we go.

As I am financially challenged right now, I am concentrating on

eating as many raw foods as possible - organic whenever possible. I

have more energy and a brighter look on life. Exercising is my

weakness. Maybe when I start my workshops again soon, my clients

will encourage me in that area. I definitely like doing group

activity - not very self-disciplined on my own.

Wow, Chatty , or what! IMHO only, I write this information.

Love to All Out There in Recovery and Discovery Land!

Sunny :)

> >>>>>

> >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

it I don't

> >>>>> have

> >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

as legitimate

> >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

besides

> >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

the body. If a

> >>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

diagnosed

> >>>>> with

> >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

thought they

> >>>>> were

> >>>>> invisible bruises!

> >>>>>

> >>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

disturbance

> >>>>> in

> >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

in a

> >>>>> system-wide

> >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

body. His

> >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

excretion and thus

> >>>>> allow

> >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

trying it, but

> >>>>> still

> >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

it (small

> >>>>> meals,

> >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Bindi

> >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

Illness

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

any form of

> >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

patient has

> >>>>> certain

> >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

symptoms. As such,

> >>>>> there

> >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

doctors believe

> >>>>> that

> >>>>> those

> >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

don't

> >>>>> understand

> >>>>> the

> >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

the reason I

> >>>>> had

> >>>>> fibro

> >>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

toxicity. Cleaning up

> >>>>> my

> >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

It took

> >>>>> changing

> >>>>> my

> >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

I was

> >>>>> totally

> >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> >>>>>

> >>>>> Kenda

> >>>>>

> >>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

during and after

> >>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

women who are

> >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

have it " and

> >>>>>> that

> >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

told.

> >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

stop " waiting " to

> >>>>>> get

> >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

other

> >>>>>> symptoms

> >>>>>> are

> >>>>>> temporary.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

with implants,

> >>>>>> I

> >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

all the time.

> >>>>>> I

> >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

expend, or I

> >>>>>> suffer

> >>>>>> for

> >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

recovery symptoms?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

> >>> --

> >>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

Phone call

> >>>>> rates.

> >>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Patty, I've seen with my own little brown eyes, the wonderful

experience of detoxing with The Master Cleanse. I only did 10 days

and it changed my life incredibly. One must experience something

before it is a reality sometimes. For me, I have experienced, seen

first-hand, and had the honor of working with Alternative Doctors who

have saved many lives, when MD's had told them they had six months to

live! I respect the role of medical doctors, as well. As I have

said previously, I had two life saving surgeries,and my grandson had

9, but I'm into prevention and that's where the future is leading

to. Even one of my doctors on the West Coast used to ask me when I

came to see him, " Have you tried everything you can at home? " Cool.

We need more of that.

Love,

Sunny :)

> > >

> > > I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe it I

don't have

> > > fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS as

legitimate

> > > disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

besides

> > > symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on the

body. If a

> > > person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

diagnosed with

> > > FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

thought they were

> > > invisible bruises!

> > >

> > > There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

disturbance in

> > > phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting in

a system-wide

> > > cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

body. His

> > > protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate excretion

and thus allow

> > > cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of trying

it, but still

> > > haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

it (small meals,

> > > lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > >

> > > Anyone else tried this?

> > >

> > > Bindi

> > >

> > > Bindi

> > > Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

> > >

> > >

> > > Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any

form of

> > > definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient

has

> > > certain

> > > symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As

such,

> > > there

> > > are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors

believe that

> > > those

> > > of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

understand

> > > the

> > > reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason

I had

> > > fibro

> > > is likely the same reason women here do, liver toxicity.

Cleaning up my

> > > liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

changing

> > > my

> > > diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

totally

> > > symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > >

> > > Kenda

> > >

> > >> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms during

and after

> > >> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most women

who are

> > >> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

have it " and that

> > >> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

told.

> > >> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

stop " waiting " to get

> > >> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

other symptoms

> > >> are

> > >> temporary.

> > >>

> > >> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than with

implants, I

> > >> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

all the time. I

> > >> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I expend,

or I suffer

> > >> for

> > >> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant recovery

symptoms?

> > >>

> > >> Bindi

> > >>

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> ----------------------------------------------------------

> --

> > > How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

Phone call rates.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

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Guest guest

O.K., Bindi...now you've done it! I am sitting here all teary-

eyed...well said, and such a balanced message. Permission to use

this message during my holistic workshops? There was another message

Patty had written that " hit home " for me and I asked her the same.

The wonderful dance of helping one another is that we are all

teachers and students at the same time! Isn't it exciting??

Love, love and more love,

Sunny :)

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe

> > me, I want to believe it I don't

> > > > >>>>> have

> > > > >>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has

> > > recognized FMS and CFS as legitimate

> > > > >>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of

diagnosing FMS besides

> > > > >>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs

> > > of " tender points " on the body. If a

> > > > >>>>> person has these eighteen painful

> > > areas, they are positively diagnosed

> > > > >>>>> with

> > > > >>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never

> > > knew what they were, thought they

> > > > >>>>> were

> > > > >>>>> invisible bruises!

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> There is one researcher who says that

> > FMS is caused by a disturbance

> > > > >>>>> in

> > > > >>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up,

resulting in a

> > > > >>>>> system-wide

> > > > >>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be

> > > triggered by trauma to the body. His

> > > > >>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to

> > > regulate phosphate excretion and thus

> > > > >>>>> allow

> > > > >>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've

> > > been thinking of trying it, but

> > > > >>>>> still

> > > > >>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a

> > > hypoglycemic diet along with it (small

> > > > >>>>> meals,

> > > > >>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Bindi

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Bindi

> > > > >>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

Illness

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than

by any form of

> > > > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when

a patient has

> > > > >>>>> certain

> > > > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

symptoms. As such,

> > > > >>>>> there

> > > > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

doctors believe

> > > > >>>>> that

> > > > >>>>> those

> > > > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

don't

> > > > >>>>> understand

> > > > >>>>> the

> > > > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

the reason I

> > > > >>>>> had

> > > > >>>>> fibro

> > > > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here

> > do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > > >>>>> my

> > > > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here

too. It took

> > > > >>>>> changing

> > > > >>>>> my

> > > > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years

before I was

> > > > >>>>> totally

> > > > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Kenda

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I was just curious if having

> > > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after

> > > > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having

> > > fibromyalgia? Most women who are

> > > > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told

> > > that they will " always have it " and

> > > > >>>>>> that

> > > > >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I

have been told.

> > > > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should

> > > just accept it and stop " waiting " to

> > > > >>>>>> get

> > > > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and

pains and other

> > > > >>>>>> symptoms

> > > > >>>>>> are

> > > > >>>>>> temporary.

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel

> > > far better now than with implants,

> > > > >>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint

> > > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.

> > > > >>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor

> > how much energy I expend, or I

> > > > >>>>>> suffer

> > > > >>>>>> for

> > > > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or

> > > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Bindi

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >

> > >----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >>> --

> > > > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out

> > Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> > > > >>>>> rates.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Get your email and more, right on the

> > ><<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www.

> >

/preview>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www..c

om/preview>new

> > .com

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Messenger with Voice.

>

><http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd.

..com/evt=39663/*http://voice.>Make

> >PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or

less.

> >

>

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Guest guest

Terri, we definitely have to study and be knowledgable about anything

we ingest. I knew a man who heard cayenne was good for you, so he

took it for 3 years straight, without guidance from a herbalist, used

large, ridiculous amounts and gave himself high blood pressure to the

nth degree!! Almost killed himself! I like the approach of eating a

totally kick-butt natural live-it! Not die-it, but live-it! lol God

gave us all the natural food that grows on our planet...if we just

eat that way, and detox - based on Patty's info on pollutants

entering our systems continuously, we can live a pretty good life!

Ofcourse, loving one another helps! lol

Healing prayers going your way,

Sunny :)

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to

believe

> it I don't

> > > >>> have

> > > >>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

> as legitimate

> > > >>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

> besides

> > > >>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

> the body. If a

> > > >>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are

positively

> diagnosed with

> > > >>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they

were,

> thought they

> > > >>> were

> > > >>> invisible bruises!

> > > >>>

> > > >>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by

a

> disturbance in

> > > >>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

> in a system-wide

> > > >>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to

the

> body. His

> > > >>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

> excretion and thus

> > > >>> allow

> > > >>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

> trying it, but

> > > >>> still

> > > >>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along

with

> it (small

> > > >>> meals,

> > > >>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Anyone else tried this?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

> Illness

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than

by

> any form of

> > > >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when

a

> patient has

> > > >>> certain

> > > >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

> symptoms. As such,

> > > >>> there

> > > >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

> doctors believe that

> > > >>> those

> > > >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

> don't understand

> > > >>> the

> > > >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

> the reason I had

> > > >>> fibro

> > > >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

> toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here

too.

> It took

> > > >>> changing

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years

before

> I was totally

> > > >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kenda

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

> during and after

> > > >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

> women who are

> > > >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

> have it " and

> > > >>>> that

> > > >>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have

been

> told.

> > > >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

> stop " waiting " to get

> > > >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains

and

> other symptoms

> > > >>>> are

> > > >>>> temporary.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

> with implants, I

> > > >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm

exhausted

> all the time. I

> > > >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

> expend, or I suffer

> > > >>>> for

> > > >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

> recovery symptoms?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------

--

> --------

> > > > --

> > > >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-

to-

> Phone call

> > > >>> rates.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Bindi, so true...that is why I'm an advocate of eating naturally, and

preventing disease in the first place. Our Western culture has gone

way off track -- fast foods? Mmmhmmm....fast track to death & decay.

Love & Light,

Sunny :)

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

> it I don't

> > > >>> have

> > > >>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and

CFS

> as legitimate

> > > >>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing

FMS

> besides

> > > >>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points "

on

> the body. If a

> > > >>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are

positively

> diagnosed with

> > > >>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they

were,

> thought they

> > > >>> were

> > > >>> invisible bruises!

> > > >>>

> > > >>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

> disturbance in

> > > >>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up,

resulting

> in a system-wide

> > > >>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to

the

> body. His

> > > >>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

> excretion and thus

> > > >>> allow

> > > >>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

> trying it, but

> > > >>> still

> > > >>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along

with

> it (small

> > > >>> meals,

> > > >>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Anyone else tried this?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

> Illness

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

> any form of

> > > >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

> patient has

> > > >>> certain

> > > >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

> symptoms. As such,

> > > >>> there

> > > >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

> doctors believe that

> > > >>> those

> > > >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

> don't understand

> > > >>> the

> > > >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

> the reason I had

> > > >>> fibro

> > > >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

> toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

> It took

> > > >>> changing

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

> I was totally

> > > >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kenda

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

> during and after

> > > >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

> women who are

> > > >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they

will " always

> have it " and

> > > >>>> that

> > > >>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have

been

> told.

> > > >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

> stop " waiting " to get

> > > >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains

and

> other symptoms

> > > >>>> are

> > > >>>> temporary.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now

than

> with implants, I

> > > >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm

exhausted

> all the time. I

> > > >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

> expend, or I suffer

> > > >>>> for

> > > >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

> recovery symptoms?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

> --------

> > > > --

> > > >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-

to-

> Phone call

> > > >>> rates.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

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Guest guest

Did they figure out what drove your blood pressure up? Are you ok now?

I see an ND for all of my supplements and he knows what I take and is

careful not to prescribe supplements that could interact with one another.

When a recommendation is made here to take a supplement, we have no idea

what other therapies you are using and if the combination of therapies is

safe. This is where all of you reading the advice, must do your own

research to be sure what we are recommending is safe for you. If you are

taking blood pressure meds, for example, I have very little knowledge on how

different supplements will interact with it. This is where, as patients,

you need to be proactive and do your homework. Supplements are generally

safer than prescription drugs but do have interactions as well.

I hope you are doing much better today!

Kenda

> I have been told by my rheumy that he is glad I am on the right track

> and trying to stay off meds and using supplements. But when I ended

> up in the ER last night with blood pressure of 166 I was scolded for

> taking all these supplements. Some doctors consider them over the

> counter medication and they were very upset with me when I told them

> I was taking the supplements that I had heard about on a this support

> group, when I mentioned Dr. Kolb they asked me well have you

> personally seen her? I was very upset and crying because I didn't

> feel well at all but also made me stop and think about putting all

> this stuff in my body. Just my 2 cents.

> Terri P

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

> it I don't

>>>>>> have

>>>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

> as legitimate

>>>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

> besides

>>>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

> the body. If a

>>>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

> diagnosed with

>>>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

> thought they

>>>>>> were

>>>>>> invisible bruises!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

> disturbance in

>>>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

> in a system-wide

>>>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

> body. His

>>>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

> excretion and thus

>>>>>> allow

>>>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

> trying it, but

>>>>>> still

>>>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

> it (small

>>>>>> meals,

>>>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Anyone else tried this?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

> Illness

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

> any form of

>>>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

> patient has

>>>>>> certain

>>>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

> symptoms. As such,

>>>>>> there

>>>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

> doctors believe that

>>>>>> those

>>>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

> don't understand

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

> the reason I had

>>>>>> fibro

>>>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

> toxicity. Cleaning up

>>>>>> my

>>>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

> It took

>>>>>> changing

>>>>>> my

>>>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

> I was totally

>>>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Kenda

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

> during and after

>>>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

> women who are

>>>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

> have it " and

>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

> told.

>>>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

> stop " waiting " to get

>>>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

> other symptoms

>>>>>>> are

>>>>>>> temporary.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

> with implants, I

>>>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

> all the time. I

>>>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

> expend, or I suffer

>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

> recovery symptoms?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>

>> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>>>> --

>>>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

> Phone call

>>>>>> rates.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

It is ideal that you see a qualified ND for supplements. Not only can they

tailor your treatment to you but your healing would be so much easier and

quicker with their advice. If that isn't an option because of expense, you

really need to research different products to see if they are safe for you.

Kenda

> I guess another question to ask is how safe is it for us to treat ourselves

> outside a trained professional's (i.e. N.D., acupuncturist, etc) care? Who

> knows if the supplements Terri was taking are the right combo for her? Health

> is so complex.

> Bindi

> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

> Illness

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

> any form of

>>>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

> patient has

>>>>>> certain

>>>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

> symptoms. As such,

>>>>>> there

>>>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

> doctors believe that

>>>>>> those

>>>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

> don't understand

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

> the reason I had

>>>>>> fibro

>>>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

> toxicity. Cleaning up

>>>>>> my

>>>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

> It took

>>>>>> changing

>>>>>> my

>>>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

> I was totally

>>>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Kenda

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

> during and after

>>>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

> women who are

>>>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

> have it " and

>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

> told.

>>>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

> stop " waiting " to get

>>>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

> other symptoms

>>>>>>> are

>>>>>>> temporary.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

> with implants, I

>>>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

> all the time. I

>>>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

> expend, or I suffer

>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

> recovery symptoms?

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>

>> ----------------------------------------------------------

> --------

>>>> --

>>>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

> Phone call

>>>>>> rates.

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

Hi Bindi,

Great letter! You are right, there are various reasons for reacting to

implants. According to my ND, those who react right away are usually

predisposed to autoimmune issues. Had they not gotten implants, they might

never have known. I would fit into this category because I had autoimmune

issues years ago and a then positive ANA. I didn't implant but it is a sure

bet I would have reacted to them. Those who react over time, generally are

having a toxic response. Of course these are generalities and there are

exceptions, but it is what he has seen in his own practice.

Kenda

> I have to say that I have aways been somewhat suspicious of allopathic

> medicine (except as a diagnostic tool and for emergency/critical care) and

> have always felt more comfortable with a natural approach (an example: my

> three children were born at home with no meds). I do, however, believe that

> there are as many con-men in the " alternative medicine " field as there are bad

> doctors in the traditional medical establishment. The natural medicine field

> is vast, and a good part of it is driven by money and is not very

> well-regulated.

>

> I get what Molly is saying: We need to be careful not to jump on any

> health-treatment bandwagon without first doing the research for ourselves and

> then trying to make as informed a decision as possible. I also understand

> Patty's point, that there is a wealth of anecdotal evidence showing that many

> people have been healed with alternative medicine and that it is a legitimate

> branch of the healing arts.

>

> My general policy with any treatment I am considering is to see what

> scientific research has been conducted on it, and make my decision on sound

> science. This isn't always easy, as some natural therapies haven't been

> studied extensively yet, but still there is a lot of info out there. You can

> look up PubMed articles for controlled studies. There are some natural

> products and treatments that have been studied extensively and have been found

> to be useless, while others have been shown to be very promising. Melatonin is

> a perfect example-- the many studies done have shown that it has no more

> significant impact on insomnia than a placebo. St. 's Wort , on the other

> hand, has been proven in controlled studies to be effective for treating mild

> to moderate depression.

>

> Just because somebody (or even many people) claim something works doesn't make

> it so. Repeating an experiment over and over to prove the claim is much more

> accurate.

>

> The fact is, we still don't know exactly why some breast implanted women get

> sick. There are many women who have had implants for years and never get sick.

> And there are some of us who get sick immediately. It's strange how some of us

> do, and some don't. Though Kenda's " fibro " symptoms were healed by detoxing,

> I'm not entirely convinced my own symptoms are from a toxic liver, but I am

> willing to suspend my skepticism and try some well-researched liver-detoxing

> therapies because I don't think it will hurt me to try. What I understand

> about coffee enemas, for example, is that there is some sound research

> currently being conducted on it but has not been completed. I will probably

> wait for the results, not because I don't believe this treatment will work,

> but because I want to be sure whatever I spend time and money on has a

> fighting chance. But heck, if Prince does 'em, they can't be that bad.

> What I don't understand is why the Gerson Institute charges so much for

> treatment--$4,900 week? Must be some pretty good coffee they are using! :)

> That said, I do believe in the validity of a natural therapy born of many

> years of good results, even if no definitive studies have yet been done. I

> tend to trust the sciences of chinese medicine and ayurveda, for example, for

> their consistency and longevity-- they've been around for millenia and so have

> had time to work out the kinks. And my own step-uncle was diagnosed with

> inoperable cancer and given a month to live, and he left the hospital and went

> home and switched to eating raw foods-- he lived another eight years, and they

> were really good, healthy, happy years. Those of us in his family are 100%

> convinced he lived on because of his diet. Sadly, he died last year.

>

> There is no magic cure, no perfect world. Some of what we are blessed or

> cursed with is just how our particular cards fell. Things go in cycles of

> harmony and disharmony, and we can only do so much to influence this. Some of

> it just is! But I think the capacity for compassion that we have is a precious

> gift, to help ease the suffering of others as best we can. I really appreciate

> the kindness and thoughtfulness that are offered freely every day by everyone

> on this list.

>

> xo

> Bindi

>

>

> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of

>>>>>>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has

>>>>>>>>> certain

>>>>>>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,

>>>>>>>>> there

>>>>>>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>> those

>>>>>>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

>>>>>>>>> understand

>>>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

>>>>>>>>> had

>>>>>>>>> fibro

>>>>>>>>> is likely the same reason women here

>> do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up

>>>>>>>>> my

>>>>>>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

>>>>>>>>> changing

>>>>>>>>> my

>>>>>>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

>>>>>>>>> totally

>>>>>>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>> Kenda

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I was just curious if having

>>> fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after

>>>>>>>>>> having implants is the same as having

>>> fibromyalgia? Most women who are

>>>>>>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told

>>> that they will " always have it " and

>>>>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been told.

>>>>>>>>>> I just don't know whether I should

>>> just accept it and stop " waiting " to

>>>>>>>>>> get

>>>>>>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other

>>>>>>>>>> symptoms

>>>>>>>>>> are

>>>>>>>>>> temporary.

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel

>>> far better now than with implants,

>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint

>>> pain and I'm exhausted all the time.

>>>>>>>>>> I

>>>>>>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor

>> how much energy I expend, or I

>>>>>>>>>> suffer

>>>>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or

>>> typical post-implant recovery symptoms?

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>> Bindi

>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>> ----------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>>> --

>>>>>>>>> How low will we go? Check out

>> Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

>>>>>>>>> rates.

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Get your email and more, right on the

>>> <<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www.

>> /preview>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./prev

>> iew>new

>> .com

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Messenger with Voice.

>> <http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd./evt

>> =39663/*http://voice.>Make

>> PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>>

>

>

>

>

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Guest guest

It is like the policosanol for

cholesterol. There were many controlled studies,

one in Australia that went for 12 years. These

show it is as effective as lipitor without the liver damage. Just one example.

Lynda

At 01:01 AM 9/14/2006, you wrote:

>I have to say that I have aways been somewhat

>suspicious of allopathic medicine (except as a

>diagnostic tool and for emergency/critical care)

>and have always felt more comfortable with a

>natural approach (an example: my three children

>were born at home with no meds). I do, however,

>believe that there are as many con-men in the

> " alternative medicine " field as there are bad

>doctors in the traditional medical

>establishment. The natural medicine field is

>vast, and a good part of it is driven by money and is not very well-regulated.

>

>I get what Molly is saying: We need to be

>careful not to jump on any health-treatment

>bandwagon without first doing the research for

>ourselves and then trying to make as informed a

>decision as possible. I also understand Patty's

>point, that there is a wealth of anecdotal

>evidence showing that many people have been

>healed with alternative medicine and that it is

>a legitimate branch of the healing arts.

>

>My general policy with any treatment I am

>considering is to see what scientific research

>has been conducted on it, and make my decision

>on sound science. This isn't always easy, as

>some natural therapies haven't been studied

>extensively yet, but still there is a lot of

>info out there. You can look up PubMed articles

>for controlled studies. There are some natural

>products and treatments that have been studied

>extensively and have been found to be useless,

>while others have been shown to be very

>promising. Melatonin is a perfect example-- the

>many studies done have shown that it has no more

>significant impact on insomnia than a placebo.

>St. 's Wort , on the other hand, has been

>proven in controlled studies to be effective for

>treating mild to moderate depression.

>

>Just because somebody (or even many people)

>claim something works doesn't make it so.

>Repeating an experiment over and over to prove

>the claim is much more accurate.

>

>The fact is, we still don't know exactly why

>some breast implanted women get sick. There are

>many women who have had implants for years and

>never get sick. And there are some of us who get

>sick immediately. It's strange how some of us

>do, and some don't. Though Kenda's " fibro "

>symptoms were healed by detoxing, I'm not

>entirely convinced my own symptoms are from a

>toxic liver, but I am willing to suspend my

>skepticism and try some well-researched

>liver-detoxing therapies because I don't think

>it will hurt me to try. What I understand about

>coffee enemas, for example, is that there is

>some sound research currently being conducted on

>it but has not been completed. I will probably

>wait for the results, not because I don't

>believe this treatment will work, but because I

>want to be sure whatever I spend time and money

>on has a fighting chance. But heck, if Prince

> does 'em, they can't be that bad. What I

>don't understand is why the Gerson Institute

>charges so much for treatment--$4,900 week? Must

>be some pretty good coffee they are using! :)

>That said, I do believe in the validity of a

>natural therapy born of many years of good

>results, even if no definitive studies have yet

>been done. I tend to trust the sciences of

>chinese medicine and ayurveda, for example, for

>their consistency and longevity-- they've been

>around for millenia and so have had time to work

>out the kinks. And my own step-uncle was

>diagnosed with inoperable cancer and given a

>month to live, and he left the hospital and went

>home and switched to eating raw foods-- he lived

>another eight years, and they were really good,

>healthy, happy years. Those of us in his family

>are 100% convinced he lived on because of his diet. Sadly, he died last year.

>

>There is no magic cure, no perfect world. Some

>of what we are blessed or cursed with is just

>how our particular cards fell. Things go in

>cycles of harmony and disharmony, and we can

>only do so much to influence this. Some of it

>just is! But I think the capacity for compassion

>that we have is a precious gift, to help ease

>the suffering of others as best we can. I really

>appreciate the kindness and thoughtfulness that

>are offered freely every day by everyone on this list.

>

>xo

>Bindi

>

>

> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of

> symptoms, rather than by any form of

> > > > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give

> this diagnosis when a patient has

> > > > >>>>> certain

> > > > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to

> account for the symptoms. As such,

> > > > >>>>> there

> > > > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe

> > > > >>>>> that

> > > > >>>>> those

> > > > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't

> > > > >>>>> understand

> > > > >>>>> the

> > > > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I

> > > > >>>>> had

> > > > >>>>> fibro

> > > > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here

> > do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > > >>>>> my

> > > > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took

> > > > >>>>> changing

> > > > >>>>> my

> > > > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was

> > > > >>>>> totally

> > > > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>> Kenda

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I was just curious if having

> > > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after

> > > > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having

> > > fibromyalgia? Most women who are

> > > > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told

> > > that they will " always have it " and

> > > > >>>>>> that

> > > > >>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. "

> This is what I have been told.

> > > > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should

> > > just accept it and stop " waiting " to

> > > > >>>>>> get

> > > > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that

> these aches and pains and other

> > > > >>>>>> symptoms

> > > > >>>>>> are

> > > > >>>>>> temporary.

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel

> > > far better now than with implants,

> > > > >>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint

> > > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.

> > > > >>>>>> I

> > > > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor

> > how much energy I expend, or I

> > > > >>>>>> suffer

> > > > >>>>>> for

> > > > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or

> > > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>> Bindi

> > > > >>>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >

> > >----------------------------------------------------------

> > > > >>> --

> > > > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out

> > Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call

> > > > >>>>> rates.

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>>

> > > > >>>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>>

> > > > >>

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >Get your email and more, right on the

> > ><<<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://w

> ww.>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www.

> >

>

/preview><http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./previe\

w>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview>new

>

> > .com

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> > Messenger with Voice.

> ><<http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postm

>

an1/*http://us.rd./evt=39663/*http://voice.>http://us.rd.\

..com/mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd./evt=39663/*http://voice.y\

ahoo.com>Make

>

> >PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

> >

>

>

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Guest guest

Yes, doctors use scare tactics to keep us off

supplements and running to them. I personally have experienced that.

But, my doctor was pleasantly surprised when he

found out how much good some of them have been for me.

Lynda

At 01:05 AM 9/14/2006, you wrote:

>I have been told by my rheumy that he is glad I am on the right track

>and trying to stay off meds and using supplements. But when I ended

>up in the ER last night with blood pressure of 166 I was scolded for

>taking all these supplements. Some doctors consider them over the

>counter medication and they were very upset with me when I told them

>I was taking the supplements that I had heard about on a this support

>group, when I mentioned Dr. Kolb they asked me well have you

>personally seen her? I was very upset and crying because I didn't

>feel well at all but also made me stop and think about putting all

>this stuff in my body. Just my 2 cents.

>Terri P

>

>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

>it I don't

> > > >>> have

> > > >>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

>as legitimate

> > > >>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

>besides

> > > >>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

>the body. If a

> > > >>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

>diagnosed with

> > > >>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

>thought they

> > > >>> were

> > > >>> invisible bruises!

> > > >>>

> > > >>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

>disturbance in

> > > >>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

>in a system-wide

> > > >>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

>body. His

> > > >>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

>excretion and thus

> > > >>> allow

> > > >>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

>trying it, but

> > > >>> still

> > > >>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

>it (small

> > > >>> meals,

> > > >>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Anyone else tried this?

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Bindi

> > > >>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

>Illness

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

>any form of

> > > >>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

>patient has

> > > >>> certain

> > > >>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

>symptoms. As such,

> > > >>> there

> > > >>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

>doctors believe that

> > > >>> those

> > > >>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

>don't understand

> > > >>> the

> > > >>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

>the reason I had

> > > >>> fibro

> > > >>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

>toxicity. Cleaning up

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

>It took

> > > >>> changing

> > > >>> my

> > > >>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

>I was totally

> > > >>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> > > >>>

> > > >>> Kenda

> > > >>>

> > > >>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

>during and after

> > > >>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

>women who are

> > > >>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

>have it " and

> > > >>>> that

> > > >>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

>told.

> > > >>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

>stop " waiting " to get

> > > >>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

>other symptoms

> > > >>>> are

> > > >>>> temporary.

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

>with implants, I

> > > >>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

>all the time. I

> > > >>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

>expend, or I suffer

> > > >>>> for

> > > >>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

>recovery symptoms?

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>> Bindi

> > > >>>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

>--------

> > > > --

> > > >>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

>Phone call

> > > >>> rates.

> > > >>>

> > > >>>

> > > >>

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

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-Kenda,

No they have no idea. They are all just guessing, stress, my weight,

(which has not changed in a year)Anyway I believe taht ist is related

to all my other numbers that are rising, High sed rate, high

cholesterol. The supplement idea came up at the hospital by the nurse

checking me in, She was just rude every question she asked for the

form to check me in was followed with her own opinion. She was very

rude to me, I happened to have my list of supplements with me because

I had it with me to show my Rheumy and my PCD they both said it was

fine,Milk Thistle, Calcium,Magnisium,zinc combo, Tumeric, coral

calcium,B-12, Folic acid,Inflammation Defense,Apple Cidar Vinegar,

Alpha lipoic acid. She didn't even know what Apple Cidar Vinegar was.

I am still having a high blood pressure of 147 but not 166. So I am

just trying to relax, I was really worried and upset about the

doctors not seeming to care and then my insurance running out. Thank

you for asking

Teri P

-- In , Kenda Skaggs <skaggs@...> wrote:

>

> Did they figure out what drove your blood pressure up? Are you ok

now?

>

> I see an ND for all of my supplements and he knows what I take and

is

> careful not to prescribe supplements that could interact with one

another.

> When a recommendation is made here to take a supplement, we have no

idea

> what other therapies you are using and if the combination of

therapies is

> safe. This is where all of you reading the advice, must do your own

> research to be sure what we are recommending is safe for you. If

you are

> taking blood pressure meds, for example, I have very little

knowledge on how

> different supplements will interact with it. This is where, as

patients,

> you need to be proactive and do your homework. Supplements are

generally

> safer than prescription drugs but do have interactions as well.

>

> I hope you are doing much better today!

>

> Kenda

>

>

> > I have been told by my rheumy that he is glad I am on the right

track

> > and trying to stay off meds and using supplements. But when I

ended

> > up in the ER last night with blood pressure of 166 I was scolded

for

> > taking all these supplements. Some doctors consider them over the

> > counter medication and they were very upset with me when I told

them

> > I was taking the supplements that I had heard about on a this

support

> > group, when I mentioned Dr. Kolb they asked me well have you

> > personally seen her? I was very upset and crying because I didn't

> > feel well at all but also made me stop and think about putting all

> > this stuff in my body. Just my 2 cents.

> > Terri P

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> I hear you on this one, and believe me, I want to believe

> > it I don't

> >>>>>> have

> >>>>>> fibro. It's interesting, the WHO has recognized FMS and CFS

> > as legitimate

> >>>>>> disorders. They do have a specific method of diagnosing FMS

> > besides

> >>>>>> symptomology: they map eighteen pairs of " tender points " on

> > the body. If a

> >>>>>> person has these eighteen painful areas, they are positively

> > diagnosed with

> >>>>>> FMS. I have those 18 points and I never knew what they were,

> > thought they

> >>>>>> were

> >>>>>> invisible bruises!

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> There is one researcher who says that FMS is caused by a

> > disturbance in

> >>>>>> phosphate metabolism, causing phosphate build-up, resulting

> > in a system-wide

> >>>>>> cell energy deprivation. It can be triggered by trauma to the

> > body. His

> >>>>>> protocol, guaifenesin, purports to regulate phosphate

> > excretion and thus

> >>>>>> allow

> >>>>>> cells to generate energy properly. I've been thinking of

> > trying it, but

> >>>>>> still

> >>>>>> haven't. He usually recommends a hypoglycemic diet along with

> > it (small

> >>>>>> meals,

> >>>>>> lean protien, complex carbs, lots of vegies).

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Anyone else tried this?

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>> Re: Fibro or Breast Implant

> > Illness

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by

> > any form of

> >>>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a

> > patient has

> >>>>>> certain

> >>>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the

> > symptoms. As such,

> >>>>>> there

> >>>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think

> > doctors believe that

> >>>>>> those

> >>>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they

> > don't understand

> >>>>>> the

> >>>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted,

> > the reason I had

> >>>>>> fibro

> >>>>>> is likely the same reason women here do, liver

> > toxicity. Cleaning up

> >>>>>> my

> >>>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too.

> > It took

> >>>>>> changing

> >>>>>> my

> >>>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before

> > I was totally

> >>>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>> Kenda

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I was just curious if having fibromyalgia-like symptoms

> > during and after

> >>>>>>> having implants is the same as having fibromyalgia? Most

> > women who are

> >>>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told that they will " always

> > have it " and

> >>>>>>> that

> >>>>>>> it " can't be cured, only managed. " This is what I have been

> > told.

> >>>>>>> I just don't know whether I should just accept it and

> > stop " waiting " to get

> >>>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and

> > other symptoms

> >>>>>>> are

> >>>>>>> temporary.

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel far better now than

> > with implants, I

> >>>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint pain and I'm exhausted

> > all the time. I

> >>>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor how much energy I

> > expend, or I suffer

> >>>>>>> for

> >>>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or typical post-implant

> > recovery symptoms?

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>> Bindi

> >>>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>

> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------

---

> > --------

> >>>> --

> >>>>>> How low will we go? Check out Messenger's low PC-to-

> > Phone call

> >>>>>> rates.

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>>

> >>>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

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Sunny,

Use and abuse!

xo

Bindi

Re: Fibro or Breast Implant Illness> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Fibromyalgia is a diagnosis of symptoms, rather than by any form of> > > > >>>>> definitive testing. Doctors give this diagnosis when a patient has> > > > >>>>> certain> > > > >>>>> symptoms but no other disease to account for the symptoms. As such,> > > > >>>>> there> > > > >>>>> are many reasons that people have fibro. I think doctors believe> > > > >>>>> that> > > > >>>>> those> > > > >>>>> of us who have fibro will always have it because they don't> > > > >>>>> understand> > > > >>>>> the> > > > >>>>> reason we get it. Even though I was never implanted, the reason I> > > > >>>>> had> > > > >>>>> fibro> > > > >>>>> is likely the same reason women here > > do, liver toxicity. Cleaning up> > > > >>>>> my> > > > >>>>> liver cured me and I believe it can for women here too. It took> > > > >>>>> changing> > > > >>>>> my> > > > >>>>> diet and diligent detoxing for a couple of years before I was> > > > >>>>> totally> > > > >>>>> symptom free. I still take detox supplements daily.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> Kenda> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I was just curious if having> > > fibromyalgia-like symptoms during and after> > > > >>>>>> having implants is the same as having> > > fibromyalgia? Most women who are> > > > >>>>>> diagnosed with fibroyalgia are told> > > that they will "always have it" and> > > > >>>>>> that> > > > >>>>>> it "can't be cured, only managed." This is what I have been told.> > > > >>>>>> I just don't know whether I should> > > just accept it and stop "waiting" to> > > > >>>>>> get> > > > >>>>>> better, or if it is possible that these aches and pains and other> > > > >>>>>> symptoms> > > > >>>>>> are> > > > >>>>>> temporary.> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> I'm ten months out, and though I feel> > > far better now than with implants,> > > > >>>>>> I> > > > >>>>>> still have a lot of muscle and joint> > > pain and I'm exhausted all the time.> > > > >>>>>> I> > > > >>>>>> have to be really careful to monitor > > how much energy I expend, or I> > > > >>>>>> suffer> > > > >>>>>> for> > > > >>>>>> days. Typical fibro symptoms, or> > > typical post-implant recovery symptoms?> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Bindi> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >> > >----------------------------------------------------------> > > > >>> --> > > > >>>>> How low will we go? Check out > > Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call> > > > >>>>> rates.> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >Get your email and more, right on the> > ><<http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www. > > /preview>http://us.rd./evt=42973/*http://www./preview>new > > .com> > >> >> >> >> > Messenger with Voice. > ><http://us.rd./mail_us/taglines/postman1/*http://us.rd./evt=39663/*http://voice.>Make > >PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.> >>

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Sunny writes:

> I am concentrating on

> eating as many raw foods as possible - organic whenever possible. I

> have more energy and a brighter look on life.

You can't go wrong spending $ on *good* food, eating naturally and

simply. It's IMHO better than taking expensive supplements; our bodies

run on the fuel in our environment, and get the necessary elements for

repair (healing) from what we eat.

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> It is ideal that you see a qualified ND for supplements. Not only can they

> tailor your treatment to you but your healing would be so much easier and

> quicker with their advice. If that isn't an option because of expense, you

> really need to research different products to see if they are safe for

> you.

>

> Kenda

I would add that it's well to see qualified MDs for evaluation and

treatment including medication. And then a good idea to do your own

research using resources such as pharmacists, nurses, books, reputable

web sites, etc. Knowledge is a powerful tool! ;-)

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