RE: Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list

[Guest guest]

Hi

n, then you are saying your MRI’s showed lesions w/o the dye? I had

a brain one done once and they said there were several “white”

spots. I bet those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o dye.

That

makes me feel better for not having the dye now that I know you didn’t

either, and they still could see your lesions. Thanks for telling me!

Smiles,

Jackie J

From: MSersLife

[mailto:MSersLife ] On Behalf Of n Rojas

Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:26 PM

To: MSersLife

Subject: Re:

Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and

our list

Bourdette

used to be the head of the MS clinic, am not sure whether he is

still

head, in clinical terms; he is doing massive clinical trials on NeuroVax for

MS,

and is still there at this time. I did like him, but we are each unique

with

respect

to doctors, of course! Good luck, whatever choice you make! I

cannot

have

any of the dyes used as I am allergic to all forms of iodine and all of the

dyes

have at least some iodine in them. They just do a plain old MRI and the

lesions,

mine anyway, are all to visible! Especially in the brainstem. Love

to

you

and all others battling not only MS but its alleged treatments! n

Re: Sleep

problems........RE: What is your biggest trouble you have with your

MS you wish would go away?

If

you could get Dennis Bourdette, M.D., at the OHSU MS clinic, he is the

best

I have ever had--save for one wonderful neuro-woman in S.F.--who moved

to

New York

(sob!). I saw many other neuros there who were excellent, during

the

time I lived there, and after I had " deleted " Roy Swank, M.D., from

my roster of physicians. (he is deceased, and was the MS neurologist who

in

vented

" the Swank diet. " Well, the diet may have been alright for

some, but

I

found Dr. Bourdette to be so marvelously kind and sound of mind!!!! Love

to

you,

Jackie, n

ps

-- OHSU stands for Oregon

Health Sciences

University, the former

Univer

sity

of Oregon Medical School!

M.~

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[Guest guest]

My understanding is that the dye lets the doctors see

which lesions are new and active, versus which ones

are old--the dye highlights the new, active lesions,

but not the old ones. The " old " lesions are visible

without the dye.

Robin

--- Jackie Hanan wrote:

> Hi n, then you are saying your MRI's showed

> lesions w/o the dye? I had

> a brain one done once and they said there were

> several " white " spots. I bet

> those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o dye.

>

> That makes me feel better for not having the dye now

> that I know you didn't

> either, and they still could see your lesions.

> Thanks for telling me!

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Good luck, Jackie; it helps if they do the MRI of the brainstem as well!

Love to you, n

Neorologists/MRI's

Yeah n, I’ve heard of Bourdette, and I’ve been up to OHSU. That was where I went when the other neuro didn’t want to give me an MS dx. but…….as she went on to say, she couldn’t say I didn’t have it!! Even though I had lesions to prove it, and I was clinically symptomatic. That’s when I first heard of Transverse Myelitis.

Is Bourdette with the MS clinic up there? My GP recommended Maas, but I still haven’t made the appt, and as silly as it might sound the only reason is because I know they will want to do another MRI w/contrast this time, and I won’t do it with the dye. I had dye before in the early years, and I didn’t do well with it. Plus I just don’t want to put dyes in my body. So if they will do one w/o it, then I’m okay as long as the machine is big enough which is another factor. I got stuck in one once, and not only was it embarrassing, but I got a little panicky. I think they will want to do one with dye to see if there are any active lesions which they say they can’t tell w/o the dye. Guess I could just go and talk with them. Maybe they can send me to the Open MRI’s?

I also saw Swank. He died huh? I liked him, but I had a hard time with his diet. I think he was on to something about taking the fish oil. He said I had clumpy blood, and it was typical in all his MS patients.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Jackie J

From: MSersLife [mailto:MSersLife ] On Behalf Of n RojasSent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:54 AMTo: MSersLife Subject: Re: Sleep problems........RE: What is your biggest trouble you have with your MS you wish would go away?

If you could get Dennis Bourdette, M.D., at the OHSU MS clinic, he is the

best I have ever had--save for one wonderful neuro-woman in S.F.--who moved

to New York (sob!). I saw many other neuros there who were excellent, during

the time I lived there, and after I had "deleted" Roy Swank, M.D., from my roster of physicians. (he is deceased, and was the MS neurologist who in

vented "the Swank diet." Well, the diet may have been alright for some, but

I found Dr. Bourdette to be so marvelously kind and sound of mind!!!! Love to

you, Jackie, n

ps -- OHSU stands for Oregon Health Sciences University, the former Univer

sity of Oregon Medical School! M.~

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[Guest guest]

yes, both the new and old ones show up without the

dye. But only active ones show up with it, and this

allows doctors to see quickly which lesions are

currently active. New versus old can also be

determined without the dye simply by comparing MRIs

done at different points of time.

Robin

--- n Rojas wrote:

> My neurologist and the radiologist are able to see

> the new lesions in

> my brain, even without dye; this has been true for

> decades! I have seen

> the films myself and had them interpreted for me by

> the radiologist. Sure

> seems that the new ones do show up, at least in me.

> Love to all on our

> list, " dyed " or not " dyed! " n

> RE:

> Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list

>

>

> My understanding is that the dye lets the doctors

> see

> which lesions are new and active, versus which

> ones

> are old--the dye highlights the new, active

> lesions,

> but not the old ones. The " old " lesions are

> visible

> without the dye.

>

> Robin

>

> --- Jackie Hanan wrote:

>

> > Hi n, then you are saying your MRI's showed

> > lesions w/o the dye? I had

> > a brain one done once and they said there were

> > several " white " spots. I bet

> > those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o

> dye.

> >

> > That makes me feel better for not having the dye

> now

> > that I know you didn't

> > either, and they still could see your lesions.

> > Thanks for telling me!

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

My neurologist and the radiologist are able to see the new lesions in

my brain, even without dye; this has been true for decades! I have seen

the films myself and had them interpreted for me by the radiologist. Sure

seems that the new ones do show up, at least in me. Love to all on our

list, "dyed" or not "dyed!" n

RE: Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list

My understanding is that the dye lets the doctors seewhich lesions are new and active, versus which onesare old--the dye highlights the new, active lesions,but not the old ones. The "old" lesions are visiblewithout the dye.Robin--- Jackie Hanan wrote:> Hi n, then you are saying your MRI's showed> lesions w/o the dye? I had> a brain one done once and they said there were> several "white" spots. I bet> those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o dye. > > That makes me feel better for not having the dye now> that I know you didn't> either, and they still could see your lesions.> Thanks for telling me!> __________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

maybe another way to say this is that the dye allows

the doctors to identify an inflammatory process. the

inflammation identifies a lesion as active. The

lesions themselves are visible without the dye, but

the dye lets the doctor determine that inflammation is

present around a particular lesion, indicating that it

is new (and/or?) active.

Robin, who had a long discussion last week with the

neurologist about MRIs, lesions, and

gadolinium-enhancing dye.

--- n Rojas wrote:

> My neurologist and the radiologist are able to see

> the new lesions in

> my brain, even without dye; this has been true for

> decades! I have seen

> the films myself and had them interpreted for me by

> the radiologist. Sure

> seems that the new ones do show up, at least in me.

> Love to all on our

> list, " dyed " or not " dyed! " n

> RE:

> Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list

>

>

> My understanding is that the dye lets the doctors

> see

> which lesions are new and active, versus which

> ones

> are old--the dye highlights the new, active

> lesions,

> but not the old ones. The " old " lesions are

> visible

> without the dye.

>

> Robin

>

> --- Jackie Hanan wrote:

>

> > Hi n, then you are saying your MRI's showed

> > lesions w/o the dye? I had

> > a brain one done once and they said there were

> > several " white " spots. I bet

> > those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o

> dye.

> >

> > That makes me feel better for not having the dye

> now

> > that I know you didn't

> > either, and they still could see your lesions.

> > Thanks for telling me!

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

My first MRIs were without contrast too. The neurologist wanted contrast but the radiology place screwed up. The MRI still showed scattered white spots. I don't like the dye. I had it the last time and it made me feel hot and flushed. Sharon Jackie Hanan wrote: Hi n, then you are saying your MRI’s showed lesions w/o the dye? I had a brain one done once and they said there were several “white” spots. I bet those are MS lesions too. They showed up w/o dye. That makes me feel better for not having the dye now that I know you didn’t either, and they still could see your lesions. Thanks for telling me! Smiles, Jackie J From: MSersLife [mailto:MSersLife ] On Behalf Of n RojasSent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:26 PMTo: MSersLife Subject: Re: Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list Bourdette used to be the head of the MS clinic, am not sure whether he is still head, in clinical terms; he is doing massive clinical trials on NeuroVax for MS, and is still there at this time. I did like him, but we are each unique with respect to doctors, of course! Good luck, whatever choice you make! I cannot have any of the dyes used as I am allergic to all forms of iodine and all of the dyes have at least some iodine in them. They just do a plain old MRI and the lesions, mine anyway, are all to visible! Especially in the brainstem. Love to you and all others battling not only MS but its alleged treatments! n Neorologists/MRI's Yeah n, I’ve heard of Bourdette, and I’ve been up to OHSU. That was where I went when the other neuro didn’t want to give me

an MS dx. but…….as she went on to say, she couldn’t say I didn’t have it!! Even though I had lesions to prove it, and I was clinically symptomatic. That’s when I first heard of Transverse Myelitis. Is Bourdette with the MS clinic up there? My GP recommended Maas, but I still haven’t made the appt, and as silly as it might sound the only reason is because I know they will want to do another MRI w/contrast this time, and I won’t do it with the dye. I had dye before in the early years, and I didn’t do well with it. Plus I just don’t want to put dyes in my body. So if they will do one w/o it, then I’m okay as long as the machine is big enough which is another factor. I got stuck in one once, and not only was it embarrassing, but I got a little panicky. I think they will want to do one

with dye to see if there are any active lesions which they say they can’t tell w/o the dye. Guess I could just go and talk with them. Maybe they can send me to the Open MRI’s? I also saw Swank. He died huh? I liked him, but I had a hard time with his diet. I think he was on to something about taking the fish oil. He said I had clumpy blood, and it was typical in all his MS patients. Thanks for the recommendations! Jackie J From: MSersLife [mailto:MSersLife ] On Behalf Of n RojasSent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 11:54 AMTo: MSersLife Subject: Re: Sleep

problems........RE: What is your biggest trouble you have with your MS you wish would go away? If you could get Dennis Bourdette, M.D., at the OHSU MS clinic, he is the best I have ever had--save for one wonderful neuro-woman in S.F.--who moved to New York (sob!). I saw many other neuros there who were excellent, during the time I lived there, and after I had "deleted" Roy Swank, M.D., from my roster of physicians. (he is deceased, and was the MS neurologist who in vented "the Swank diet." Well, the diet may have been alright for some, but I found Dr. Bourdette to be so marvelously kind and sound of mind!!!! Love to you, Jackie, n ps -- OHSU stands for Oregon Health Sciences University, the former Univer sity of Oregon Medical School! M.~ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.1.384 / Virus Database: 268.4.5/322 - Release Date: 4/22/2006

Sharon (MSersLife creator/owner)

“One minute it's a giant cabbage and the next, ka-boom! You've got cole slaw all over you." V.R. , Palmer, Alaska, where Cabbages grow huge

Celebrate Earth Day everyday! Discover 10 things you can do to help slow climate change. Yahoo! Earth Day

[Guest guest]

I'm not making recommendations about the use of the dye one way or the

other, but here is an example of how/why it might be useful:

A couple weeks ago my neurologist ordered a lot of tests for me to try

to find out why I have been having increased difficulty walking. The

suspicion was that I was having an acute episode. They did an MRI,

adding the dye for the last part of it so there were pictures taken

both with and without the dye. Without the dye, the MRI showed 8-10

lesions (white spots). With the dye, there was nothing. So, the

doctors were able to conclude that there was no inflammation, and so

none of the lesions was active, and so I was not having an acute

episode. Thus, I was not given steroid treatments. If the doctors

had relied only on an MRI without dye, they probably would have gone

ahead with the steroid treatment under the supposition that it

*appeared* that I was having an episode. However, the dye let us know

that this was not the case, and instead the increased walking I have

been doing was the cause of my increased difficulties. So, I am

trying to walk less and indeed this is helping.

So, that is an example of how/why the dye might be useful. Of course,

the lesions are visible without the dye, and the appearance of new

lesions over time is easily evident by comparing a current MRI with a

previous one. It's a question of knowing which lesions are currently

active or causing inflammation, thus producing an acute episode. That

is the reason for the dye. I'm sure, however, that most doctors would

not force it on someone who did not want it, and some may rely only on

MRIs without dye to make decisions about treatment.

Just my two cents, your mileage may vary,

Robin

>

> My first MRIs were without contrast too. The neurologist wanted

contrast but the radiology place screwed up. The MRI still showed

scattered white spots. I don't like the dye. I had it the last time

and it made me feel hot and flushed.

>

[Guest guest]

Many, such as I, are very allergic to iodine, which is why I have never had

it; otherwise, I would allow it to be used. Unfortunately, the reaction can

be lethal, and some do not even know they have the allergy! So long as one is NOT allergic to it, it seems a distinct advantage to me to use it!

Love and good luck to you, n

Re: Neorologists/MRI's/Jackie's post and our list

I'm not making recommendations about the use of the dye one way or the other, but here is an example of how/why it might be useful:A couple weeks ago my neurologist ordered a lot of tests for me to try to find out why I have been having increased difficulty walking. The suspicion was that I was having an acute episode. They did an MRI, adding the dye for the last part of it so there were pictures taken both with and without the dye. Without the dye, the MRI showed 8-10 lesions (white spots). With the dye, there was nothing. So, the doctors were able to conclude that there was no inflammation, and so none of the lesions was active, and so I was not having an acute episode. Thus, I was not given steroid treatments. If the doctors had relied only on an MRI without dye, they probably would have gone ahead with the steroid treatment under the supposition that it *appeared* that I was having an episode. However, the dye let us know that this was not the case, and instead the increased walking I have been doing was the cause of my increased difficulties. So, I am trying to walk less and indeed this is helping. So, that is an example of how/why the dye might be useful. Of course, the lesions are visible without the dye, and the appearance of new lesions over time is easily evident by comparing a current MRI with a previous one. It's a question of knowing which lesions are currently active or causing inflammation, thus producing an acute episode. That is the reason for the dye. I'm sure, however, that most doctors would not force it on someone who did not want it, and some may rely only on MRIs without dye to make decisions about treatment. Just my two cents, your mileage may vary,Robin>> My first MRIs were without contrast too. The neurologist wanted contrast but the radiology place screwed up. The MRI still showed scattered white spots. I don't like the dye. I had it the last time and it made me feel hot and flushed. >

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