Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Donna is correct abt. goats evolving- I am evolving now by using my delete key.....Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 About evol.she maybe correct. but there are alot of sub-saharan goats who've evolved the the humid west african coast. Gotta love those pygmiesetc. The goats greatest challenge is how it will evolve our attempts at making it into a grazer when for millenia its been a browser[high up with little parasite threat]. Robie a creationist --- Re: evolution? spare meFrom: "glastonburyfarm@..." Date: Wed, January 03, 2007 7:41 amTo: RawDairy Donna is correct abt. goats evolving- I am evolving now by using my delete key.....BetsyPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/<*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional<*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/join (Yahoo! ID required)<*> To change settings via email: mailto:RawDairy-digest mailto:RawDairy-fullfeatured <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RawDairy-unsubscribe <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 I don't think "adaptation" and "evolution" are the same thing. Many animals have changed to adapt to different ever changing environments but none that I know of have actually evolved INTO a whole other animal. That would be evolution. a Re: evolution? spare meFrom: "glastonburyfarmjuno" <GlastonburyFarmjuno>Date: Wed, January 03, 2007 7:41 amTo: RawDairy Donna is correct abt. goats evolving- I am evolving now by using my delete key.....BetsyPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Robie, maybe a better word to use would be 'adapt'? just my 2 cents. ro Re: evolution? spare meFrom: "glastonburyfarmjuno" <GlastonburyFarmjuno>Date: Wed, January 03, 2007 7:41 amTo: RawDairy Donna is correct abt. goats evolving- I am evolving now by using my delete key.....BetsyPLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING!Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/Archive search: http://onibasu.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 a? Ro?, Evolution means essentailly the addition of genetic information[i, like you,believe no genetic info is added] I believe in devolution. All the genetic info was at the beginning. We, the goats, are devolving. just beinawitness Dr. Robie > --- Re: evolution? spare me > > Date: Wed, January 03, 2007 7:41 am > To: RawDairy > > Donna is correct abt. goats evolving- I am evolving now by using my > delete key.....Betsy > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Good and thoughtful response. But alas, for evolution to infact be more than a theory, genetic iformation must be added,by what mechanism,to the genetic code,DNA. Its a tough sell at best and an information theorists nightmare at worst. I'm a former antitheist whose fluency in " E " world is lacking,just and excuse for not furthering the typed form of this discussion. there isa thoughtful group of scientists at www.reasons.org. not sure of the " E " address. Old earth theorists the lot of 'em whove no real or percieved exclusivity tween creationism as an " ism " or evolution as a theory. Thanks for thinking Robie > --- Re: evolution? spare me > > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 11:46 am > To: RawDairy > > > > > > a? Ro?, > > > > Evolution means essentailly the addition of genetic information[i, > like you,believe no genetic info is added] > > I believe in devolution. All the genetic info was at the beginning. > We, the goats, are devolving. > > I don't think evolution essentially means that genetic info is added > (to the DNA? Not sure what it would be added to). What I think it > means is that genetic information is passed on to the next generation, > and depending on the combination of parental genes and how well each > combination does in the environment, the best combinations are > " selected " and survive to create the next generation. Sometimes there > are mutations, which is probably the closest thing to adding genetic > information, and these either do well and are passed on, or do badly > and die out. At least, this is how I understand it. And I think > that's what UC Berkeley is saying here too: > > http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_02 > > And this brings me to my burning, existential question: Why do > evolution and creation theory have to be mutually exclusive? Can't > Genesis be a parable for the Big Bang, solar and planetary accretion, > and evolution? What is a day, to God, who is not confined by our > earthly frame of reference? It could be billions of years. > > > > > just beinawitness > > Dr. Robie > > Just thinking out loud > Barrie (not a doctor) > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 I went and read the UCBerkley Def. and it is what I originally stated. Devolution. the ifo was at the beginning. They left an opn ended def. for no explaination was given for the original code [DNA or algorythmic or...] huh? humbly yours robie > --- Re: evolution? spare me > > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 11:46 am > To: RawDairy > > > > > > a? Ro?, > > > > Evolution means essentailly the addition of genetic information[i, > like you,believe no genetic info is added] > > I believe in devolution. All the genetic info was at the beginning. > We, the goats, are devolving. > > I don't think evolution essentially means that genetic info is added > (to the DNA? Not sure what it would be added to). What I think it > means is that genetic information is passed on to the next generation, > and depending on the combination of parental genes and how well each > combination does in the environment, the best combinations are > " selected " and survive to create the next generation. Sometimes there > are mutations, which is probably the closest thing to adding genetic > information, and these either do well and are passed on, or do badly > and die out. At least, this is how I understand it. And I think > that's what UC Berkeley is saying here too: > > http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_02 > > And this brings me to my burning, existential question: Why do > evolution and creation theory have to be mutually exclusive? Can't > Genesis be a parable for the Big Bang, solar and planetary accretion, > and evolution? What is a day, to God, who is not confined by our > earthly frame of reference? It could be billions of years. > > > > > just beinawitness > > Dr. Robie > > Just thinking out loud > Barrie (not a doctor) > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 www.bluestemfarms.com > --- Re: evolution? spare me > > > > Date: Thu, January 04, 2007 11:46 am > > To: RawDairy > > > > > > > > > > a? Ro?, > > > > > > Evolution means essentailly the addition of genetic information[i, > > like you,believe no genetic info is added] > > > I believe in devolution. All the genetic info was at the beginning. > > We, the goats, are devolving. > > > > I don't think evolution essentially means that genetic info is added > > (to the DNA? Not sure what it would be added to). What I think it > > means is that genetic information is passed on to the next generation, > > and depending on the combination of parental genes and how well each > > combination does in the environment, the best combinations are > > " selected " and survive to create the next generation. Sometimes there > > are mutations, which is probably the closest thing to adding genetic > > information, and these either do well and are passed on, or do badly > > and die out. At least, this is how I understand it. And I think > > that's what UC Berkeley is saying here too: > > > > http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_02 > > > > And this brings me to my burning, existential question: Why do > > evolution and creation theory have to be mutually exclusive? Can't > > Genesis be a parable for the Big Bang, solar and planetary accretion, > > and evolution? What is a day, to God, who is not confined by our > > earthly frame of reference? It could be billions of years. > > > > > > > > just beinawitness > > > Dr. Robie > > > > Just thinking out loud > > Barrie (not a doctor) > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I agree Betsy, not a good topic for here. Even with what you have listed here I can give you evidence to counter these points you make. Darwin himself came up with the whole Evolution theory based on assumptions that were incorrect. He himself even came to that conclusion over time. There is just as much evidence for creation as their is for evolution. Basically it's just a persons choice to decide what they want to believe. a RE: Re: evolution? spare me 1) defintive proof of evolution- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060901164253.htm2) There is never any addition or subtraction of genetic code- modification or mutation, yes, does exist.3) Evolution- (ev'e loo shen)-n.- def. 3.- Biological: the continuous *adaptation* of organisms or species to the environment by the integrating agencies of selection, hybridization, inbreeding and mutation. (The Random House College dictionary)4) Evolution does not preclude the existance of God- one day in God's eyes can be 50 Billion years of man's feeble way of counting time, which is relative anyway. How are we to know differently?This is not a good topic for this forum- not at all....Betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I agree. This is supposed to be a raw dairy list....not a science vs religion belief list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I won't engage in a fight on this, and it will be my only post on the subject. I accept anyone's right to think as they wish provided they don't attempt to force it on me. That article about the fruit flies proves nothing. It has been known for years now that there are many lower life forms, entire populations of which that can switch on or off, various body functions and configurations when certain conditions arise. Locusts are the best known example, changing in color and social and feeding habits from that of individually acting grasshoppers to a swarm under various conditions. There are insects that are wingless that suddenly will sprout wings with the emergence of a new generation, responding to the need to migrate to better habitat. There are well known to be reptiles that change sex, en masse, when a balance in the breeding population is needed. In the news recently is a female Komodo dragon that is pregnant in captivity, having never been close to a male. The only thing that is proven is how much we don't know, yet how we will make large pronouncements based on the smallest findings. Daddybob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 I agree as well. What difference does it make how we got here? We're here and making a mess of it. Perhaps our energy would be better spent cleaning up what we've done and preventing more mess? Belinda > > I agree. This is supposed to be a raw dairy list....not a science vs religion belief list. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 Hmm, I think to get to the bottom of it, we'd have to read the whole evolution.berkeley.edu site, and I know I don't have time for that today! But think we were both onto something before--that in the theory of evolution, genetic info is added to the DNA. A human being has 46 chromosomes, each of which is a long molecule of DNA. A frog has 26 chromosomes, and a fruit fly has only 8. I think that's why it's called evolution instead of devolution--the more complex the organism, the more chromosomes (and therefore genetic information) it requires. Where does that added information come from? Mutations, or the hand of God, or whatever you want to call it. But of course, there are still observations made in the field that cannot be explained by this theory. And there always will be things that cannot be explained by any given scientific theory, no? Thanks for the interesting discussion, Robie--I always like it when someone makes me think. Barrie (not a farmer either, just a raw milk consumer) > > > > > > a? Ro?, > > > > > > Evolution means essentailly the addition of genetic information[i, > > like you,believe no genetic info is added] > > > I believe in devolution. All the genetic info was at the beginning. > > We, the goats, are devolving. > > > > I don't think evolution essentially means that genetic info is added > > (to the DNA? Not sure what it would be added to). What I think it > > means is that genetic information is passed on to the next generation, > > and depending on the combination of parental genes and how well each > > combination does in the environment, the best combinations are > > " selected " and survive to create the next generation. Sometimes there > > are mutations, which is probably the closest thing to adding genetic > > information, and these either do well and are passed on, or do badly > > and die out. At least, this is how I understand it. And I think > > that's what UC Berkeley is saying here too: > > > > http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/0_0_0/evo_02 > > > > And this brings me to my burning, existential question: Why do > > evolution and creation theory have to be mutually exclusive? Can't > > Genesis be a parable for the Big Bang, solar and planetary accretion, > > and evolution? What is a day, to God, who is not confined by our > > earthly frame of reference? It could be billions of years. > > > > > > > > just beinawitness > > > Dr. Robie > > > > Just thinking out loud > > Barrie (not a doctor) > > > > > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 > > Good and thoughtful response. But alas, for evolution to infact be more than a theory, genetic iformation must be added,by what mechanism,to the genetic code,DNA. Its a tough sell at best and an information theorists nightmare at worst. I can think of a number of ways, but this isn't really the forum to get into it. You could start by reading " Origin of Species, " or one of the books of essays by Jay Gould. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 > --- RE: Re: evolution? spare me > > Date: Fri, January 05, 2007 6:23 am > To: RawDairy > > 1) defintive proof of evolution- > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060901164253.htm > > 2) There is never any addition or subtraction of genetic code- > modification or mutation, yes, does exist. > > 3) Evolution- (ev'e loo shen)-n.- def. 3.- Biological: the continuous > *adaptation* of organisms or species to the environment by the > integrating agencies of selection, hybridization, inbreeding and > mutation. (The Random House College dictionary) > > 4) Evolution does not preclude the existance of God- one day in God's > eyes can be 50 Billion years of man's feeble way of counting time, > which is relative anyway. How are we to know differently? > > This is not a good topic for this forum- not at all....I AGREE![but the religiosity is the same as the CAE] > > Betsy > > > > PLEASE BE KIND AND TRIM YOUR POSTS WHEN REPLYING! > Visit our Raw Dairy Files for a wealth of information! > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RawDairy/files/ > > Archive search: http://onibasu.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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