Re: Grants

[Guest guest]

There is NOTHING positive about farming grants...they are theft of

taxpayer money for the benefit of a farm, be it large or small...and

as for you telling me what I can abd cannot post here, I don't believe

you are a moderator or list owner.

Bob

>

> If anyone knows that there is help for small farmers, grants,

> subsidies, you name it.....please post where to apply, so I can

> apply.....thanks,

> Trivia andra

>

[Guest guest]

Well said, Rose Marie! I agree with what you said.

Donna

Safehaven Nubians

Dandridge, TN

>

> Completely untrue.

> Farm grants, depending on what they are for, such as sustainable

farm grants, should and do ultimately benefit the consumer.

> Just my opinion.

> Rose

>

[Guest guest]

I don't believe in government grants to private business PERIOD. I

simply don't think a business...ANY business, should use coercion of

any sort, which is what the IRS does, use coercion, to forcibly take

money from one individual, and give it to another individual or business.

PRIVATE grants, a situation where someone or some corporation

VOLUNTARILY sets aside x amount of dollars per year to help an

individual or group is fine...the difference being that the giving up

uf the money is voluntary.

Bob

>

> ok. so you don't like farming grants? what about other grants?

[Guest guest]

Maybe its when I read the following upon joining the group that I

thought we were suppossed to be nice to each other and not be subject

to being called a thief, by a hipocrit, for being willing to accept a

government farming grant! Not to mention, I never addressed the

comment of asking people not to make mean posts to YOU, it was to

everyone.

Raw Dairy List Guidelines......please read!

Please do your part in following the guidelines posted below to help

the list run more comfortably. These rules will be posted to the

list on a monthly basis to help everyone remember their manners.

** SPECIAL NOTE: With regards to political discussions, this is

not a place for presidential political campaigning. If the political

post has to do with raw dairy directly, it is fine, otherwise please

refrain from posting it as there are plenty of other forums for these

kind of discussions. In addition, a few off-topic posts are fine as

long as they are not inflammatory or divisive in nature, and as long

as they are kept to a minimum.

" Bob Hayles " wrote:

There is NOTHING positive about farming grants...they are theft of

taxpayer money for the benefit of a farm, be it large or small...and

as for you telling me what I can abd cannot post here, I don't believe

you are a moderator or list owner.

Bob

" Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

First, Please do not make this post-topic political. That is getting

very old. The raw dairy group specifically has a NO POLITICS policy.

If you don't have anything positive or useful in the context of

farming grants then just DON'T POST!

This is the best index I found today.

www.sba.gov/services/financialassistance/grants/index.html

Trivia andra <trivia@> wrote:

If anyone knows that there is help for small farmers, grants,

subsidies, you name it.....please post where to apply, so I can

apply.....thanks,

Trivia andra

[Guest guest]

And as I said before, anybody who buys ANYTHING, uses the roads or

sends their child to a public school (oh I forgot police & fire, so

if you've ever needed or called the police department or fire

department too) -- is a hipocrit for saying that small farmers are

thiefs for being willing to accept government grants because they are

thiefs too.

So can we all just play nice.

" Tramar Farms " wrote:

ok. so you don't like farming grants? what about other grants?

From: Bob Hayles

There is NOTHING positive about farming grants...they are theft of

taxpayer money for the benefit of a farm, be it large or small...and

as for you telling me what I can abd cannot post here, I don't believe

you are a moderator or list owner.

Bob

" Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

First, Please do not make this post-topic political. That is getting

very old. The raw dairy group specifically has a NO POLITICS policy.

If you don't have anything positive or useful in the context of

farming grants then just DON'T POST!

This is the best index I found today.

www.sba.gov/services/financialassistance/grants/index.html

Trivia andra <trivia@> wrote:

If anyone knows that there is help for small farmers, grants,

subsidies, you name it.....please post where to apply, so I can

apply.....thanks,

Trivia andra

[Guest guest]

You know, it really is hard to say where to draw the line on govt

spending. That is why our govt has gotten so huge, because no one

knows where to draw the line. My own self, I am a small govt advocate.

I mean sure, roads, maybe, could use tax dollars, but still even there, there

may be a better way to use the private sector to do that. Mail delivery also,

as well as utilities. I say privatize. The govt has just gotten out of hand. I

can see your point, but I see Bob's too. It's just a difficult topic and best

left to really really brilliant people who could show us how to design a

streamlined small govt that could minimally tax and divvy up dollars in an

ethical way that would not create dependence or control over people's lives.

I am sure there is something out there in book form to this effect, but I have

just never seen it compiled in one place.

But let's stay civil and try to like each other. We're fighting for the same

cause in Raw Dairy.

Thanky,

D.

moderator

>

> a local fire department in a very small town near me just got a grant to

help buy a new

fire truck. our ag instructor received a grant (don't know who from) to

purchase a

$15,000 laser cutting machine. It engraves in plastic, wood glass etc. He got

this to

enable the kids to have experience with the computer programs. these are all

good

things. And if I need EQUIP money to purchase trees to extend my grove and

create a

create a wind buffer for our livestock please don't criticize me about it. i'm

here to talk

about dairy issues and the one issue that i originally addressed was that there

are monies

available to put in fencing and watering systems etc. The intent was to inform

not start a

discussion about what is right or wrong about government spending.

[Guest guest]

Milk Checks?

Property taxes for Public schools?

> >

> > ok. so you don't like farming grants? what about other grants?

>

[Guest guest]

He's entitled to his opinion but, he's being mean. I don't like being

called a thief because I would (never have though) accept a

government grant. All I started asking was for people to leave the

mean posts to themselves so that we can have a useful discussion for

those of us that were asking about government grants.

And it is the following that I was referring to, about being nice,

not the political campaigns.

In addition, a few off-topic posts are fine as long as they are not

inflammatory or divisive in nature, and as long as they are kept to a

minimum.

Sheila Willhoite wrote:

>

> Charity,

>

> I do not recall any post being presidentially inclined. And

personally what he has

> said made me think...granted (no pun intended) mayne a few choice

words could be nicer...but for the most part I just read them as a

personal opinion. We have been thinking of grants and have been

approached by persons to look into specific grants. And what Bob

says really makes since. I mean I don't want to involuntarily make

others pay for my farm. It might be easier that way, but really is

NOT necessary. So for us and our farm we have decided to not go

govt. grants.

>

> By the way....we homeschool, are against retired and childless

people paying school taxes...well hey I shouldn't either since I

homeschool and pay for their education!! But, the facts of life are

we have to. But that does not mean we don't have freedom of speech.

We are entitle to personal beliefs, and personally my beliefs line up

towards Bobs. And if there aren't people gathering grants for

farming the govt would think of some other way to steal my money :-)

>

> Anyways...Charity lets just let others have opinions, and hey you

can still be entitled to yours too don't feel threatened!

>

> Peace, Sheila

>

> Charity wrote:

> Maybe its when I read the following upon joining the

group that I

> thought we were suppossed to be nice to each other and not be

subject

> to being called a thief, by a hipocrit, for being willing to accept

a

> government farming grant! Not to mention, I never addressed the

> comment of asking people not to make mean posts to YOU, it was to

> everyone.

>

> Raw Dairy List Guidelines......please read!

>

> Please do your part in following the guidelines posted below to

help

> the list run more comfortably. These rules will be posted to the

> list on a monthly basis to help everyone remember their manners.

>

> ** SPECIAL NOTE: With regards to political discussions, this is

> not a place for presidential political campaigning. If the

political

> post has to do with raw dairy directly, it is fine, otherwise

please

> refrain from posting it as there are plenty of other forums for

these

> kind of discussions. In addition, a few off-topic posts are fine as

> long as they are not inflammatory or divisive in nature, and as

long

> as they are kept to a minimum.

>

> " Bob Hayles " <bubbabob@> wrote:

>

> There is NOTHING positive about farming grants...they are theft of

> taxpayer money for the benefit of a farm, be it large or small...and

> as for you telling me what I can abd cannot post here, I don't

believe

> you are a moderator or list owner.

>

> Bob

>

> " Charity " <Charity@> wrote:

>

> First, Please do not make this post-topic political. That is

getting

> very old. The raw dairy group specifically has a NO POLITICS

policy.

> If you don't have anything positive or useful in the context of

> farming grants then just DON'T POST!

>

> This is the best index I found today.

>

> www.sba.gov/services/financialassistance/grants/index.html

>

>

> Trivia andra <trivia@> wrote:

>

> If anyone knows that there is help for small farmers, grants,

> subsidies, you name it.....please post where to apply, so I can

> apply.....thanks,

> Trivia andra

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

>

[Guest guest]

But, now you have tempered your opinion with, only for " people who are

capable of providing for themselves " accepting grants is wrong. What

about those in the throngs of poverty, struggling to get a foothold on

their farming venture (and even get it fully started) before they loose

everything (unable to get loans) and would be forced to move into a

city apartment and get city jobs? Which is a worse evil? Squezing out

small farmers (leaving only the corporate farms) or having a tiny

amount of the nation's budget go towards grants to help these small

farmers out?

" kathryn russell " wrote:

But facts are facts, and when the federal government raids the

treasury, or borrows against future incoming funds to distribute money

to people who are capable of providing for themselves and are in

competition with others for market, it is a robbery under the gun of

the government,

www.majestyfarm.com

[Guest guest]

Wisconsin schools are mandated to receive 1/3 of their funding from

the state.

" kathryn russell " wrote:

>

> Government schools have been the province of localities from the

inception.

> The states control oversight. Typically, Guvt schools have been

paid for by

> property taxes. That is how localities raise money. But, because,

as Bill

> stated, urban areas are demanding, and getting more they generate,

they have

> appealed to the state level, and the feds (who gladly complied) to

offer

> more money. BUT not without strings, And gee whiz? Guess what, once

the

> funds started flowing so did more mandated, often unfunded. A

vicious

> circle.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sharon,

Your agrument missed one important phrase in Rose Marie's post ...

SUSTAINABLE FARM GRANTS. Sustainable farms, by definition do not

produce garbage. We are the farms that grow Natural or Organic. We

are the farms that you get that precious raw milk from. We are the

farms that take the extra time & money to treat our animals humanely

and with respect if not love also. We are the ones that sell at the

farmer's markets but yet can not afford to heat our home (my

thermastat stays at 55 and I', in the center of Wisconsin). We are

the farms that everybody in this country will count on for its

survival when this country faces the same oil crisis that Cuba did in

the 1990s. These grants (that I'm referring to) are to help these

small farms form & get started not to enrich the corporate farms. Try

telling a banker that you are going to leave your city job to farm

and that you want a loan to buy that farm and all you have is

projections of farm income. See how long it takes before you are

kicked out of that bank, with them laughing the whole way. If it

wasn't for some of these grants, some of the small farms you are

wanting to support would not exist. I am not talking long-term

subsidies that artificially lower the cost of grocery store food. I

am talking about making sure that when this WORLD runs out of fossil

fuels (and coroprate farms CAN'T operate) that there are enough small

farms to actually feed the populace. And I'm not talking about my

children or grand-children (I'm too young for them yet but, another

10 years+) 's generations. I'm talking while I am alive this will

happen.

" Sharon son " wrote:

>

>

> >

> > Completely untrue.

> > Farm grants, depending on what they are for, such as sustainable

farm

> > grants, should and do ultimately benefit the consumer.

> > Just my opinion.

> > Rose

> > _

> >

>

>

>

And how does a consumer " benefit " when the resulting products are

> garbage? Only those still stuck in the processed food mentality.

Only

> those who haven't figured out how to live without their processed

C & H sugar

> or their artificially-low priced milk will supposedly " benefit " .

Only

> those who still, mistakenly believe that corn syrup and high

fructose corn

> syrup, soy, corn oil, canola oil, ad naseum are healthy. And maybe

if the

> grant " benefit " were removed, and consumers had to pay what food

really does

> cost, they'd be more choosy, going for nutrition and substance,

rather than

> cheap & convenient " food " . Or maybe they'd learn how to grow their

own. Or

> maybe they'd see the benefit supporting/promoting their own local

small

> farmer. Maybe we'd have a healthier nation not so dependent on the

> government AND zoloft, prozac, vioxx, celebrex, statins, you-name-

it.....

>

> Providence, independence and true freedom were exchanged, bought

out by

> grants and subsidies. That's when our collective brains were beat

out....

>