public school debate

July 21, 2006

Im so sorry for everyone's bad experiences in the classroom....We (our

family) has an EXCELLENT teacher who gets bogged down by the school boards and

state rules. She does her very best to teach beyond what is required and I

feel

like she goes WAY WAY WAY over what is required of her. I wish you all

could have such experiences...I still get SO freaking mad at our school

district

and it's ADMINISTRATION...they are a bunch of dolts....but our teachers so

far have been nothing but WONDERFUL.

,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,e

,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,

Loving DH...Jerry(miss you honey)

Mom of 4 special somebunnies...

(`v(`Y )?(`v )v )

( ..( .. )( .. ).. )

o(( " )( " )( " )( " )( " )( " ))o

Josh, e, Madison &

,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,,.~*^*~.,

I love a child with Autism

It is with the heart that one sees rightly...What is essential is not seen

with the eye.

Inside of me is a skinny woman just screaming to get out, I can usually shut

her up with cookies!

July 21, 2006

You know, I have been sitting here reading everyones responses. I want you all

to know that I am sorry that you have aparently only run into bad teachers in

your life. Well, they are NOT ALL BAD. There are teachers out there who

actually DO CARE about the children in their classroom and take them in as their

own. In regular ed. as well as special ed. It is VERY discouraging to read all

these responses that are so negative about teachers. Yes, there are some bad

teachers out there, maybe more than good, but there are still good teachers out

there!

All my life I have wanted to be a teacher. The children in my classroom are my

students as well as my " children. " I care about each and every one of them and

try to reach them no matter what it takes. When those stuents leave my class at

the end of the year, they are still my " children. " I keep in contact as much as

I can with the families. I know I am not the only teacher out there that cares

the way I do.

I joined this list to get ideas for my families and students with special needs

because I know most do not have internet access. I know I am not an expert on

Autism, but as a teacher with students in my class, I have done much on my own

to learn more and how to help each individual child.

I am sorry for all the issues you all have with public schools. I know that they

are not " the best " in some cases, but do know that there are teachers who are

advocates for children in the schools. It is just as hard for them to fight for

these kids as it is for you..

I know many of you are mad because we " teach to the test. " In many school

districts we are pretty much told waht to teach each 6 weeks. Put the blame

where it belongs, the state, not teachers who are doing what they are told.

I ask that you do not group all teachers as " bad " just because you have may

encountered a few that you view were not good for your child.

wrote: I

completely agree with nna. The test started coming in when my oldest (34)

was in Junior high and I am raising his son that happens to be AU now. There are

very few teachers out there willing to teach more than is required.

One of my son's teachers made the remark that if they wanted her to teach to a

test that she could do that but then she would not be teaching the child.

Now between the two of us, nna and I have .04 worth to the list.

July 21, 2006

This is where I disagree. I don't think it's the teachers that are the

problem, I think it's the system. I have seen and know several teachers who

try very creative ways to get around the system in order to " teach the child

.. I've had a lot of problems dealing with the system regarding my son,

because despite 2 private diagnosis of ASD, the school's " assessments " all

say he's normal. I spent an hour on the phone one day with the director of

the special ed services, and I told him about my son's abilities to, at five

years old, be able to add double digit numbers, and feel like if he were

challenged, it would be the best thing for him. This man had the nerve to

tell me that they couldn't do that, because they don't " maximize " education.

Think about that. They don't maximize education. I wonder how many " average

or " normal " children have gifts that don't get " maximized " to the benefit

of the child and society? Probably every single child sitting in the

classroom. Of course, there is no way a single teacher can pull every child

in her classroom aside and teach to their gift, but how about having

advanced math classes in elementary school, and advanced reading classes,

and " maximizing " their education? How about focusing on one's abilities?

That would probably be too easy of a solution. What these children get- not

maximized " , that's what is known as a " free and appropriate " education.

Appropriate to who? Everyone sits back and wonders why the United States is

so far behind the rest of the world when it comes to education, and I can

tell you, it is not because teachers aren't being held accountable, it's

because of the system they have to work with.

That's my .02, but it's worth at least a dollar to me. ~off my soapbox now~

Anne

-- Re: Re: public school debate

I completely agree with nna. The test started coming in when my oldest

(34) was in Junior high and I am raising his son that happens to be AU now.

There are very few teachers out there willing to teach more than is required

One of my son's teachers made the remark that if they wanted her to teach to

a test that she could do that but then she would not be teaching the child.

Now between the two of us, nna and I have .04 worth to the list.

July 21, 2006

All Teacher are not bad. There is a very elite small group that I have known

that truly care about the children. There was one teacher at my grandson's EC-

3rd grade school and there was another at his Dad's 4-6th grade classes and a

whole school in Houston, a magnet program that my younger son attended so not

all teacher's are bad just the ones that have taught my child and abused him.

Re: Re: public school debate

You know, I have been sitting here reading everyones responses. I want you all

to know that I am sorry that you have aparently only run into bad teachers in

your life. Well, they are NOT ALL BAD. There are teachers out there who actually

DO CARE about the children in their classroom and take them in as their own. In

regular ed. as well as special ed. It is VERY discouraging to read all these

responses that are so negative about teachers. Yes, there are some bad teachers

out there, maybe more than good, but there are still good teachers out there!

All my life I have wanted to be a teacher. The children in my classroom are my

students as well as my " children. " I care about each and every one of them and

try to reach them no matter what it takes. When those stuents leave my class at

the end of the year, they are still my " children. " I keep in contact as much as

I can with the families. I know I am not the only teacher out there that cares

the way I do.

I joined this list to get ideas for my families and students with special

needs because I know most do not have internet access. I know I am not an expert

on Autism, but as a teacher with students in my class, I have done much on my

own to learn more and how to help each individual child.

I am sorry for all the issues you all have with public schools. I know that

they are not " the best " in some cases, but do know that there are teachers who

are advocates for children in the schools. It is just as hard for them to fight

for these kids as it is for you..

I know many of you are mad because we " teach to the test. " In many school

districts we are pretty much told waht to teach each 6 weeks. Put the blame

where it belongs, the state, not teachers who are doing what they are told.

I ask that you do not group all teachers as " bad " just because you have may

encountered a few that you view were not good for your child.

wrote: I completely agree with nna.

The test started coming in when my oldest (34) was in Junior high and I am

raising his son that happens to be AU now. There are very few teachers out there

willing to teach more than is required.

One of my son's teachers made the remark that if they wanted her to teach to a

test that she could do that but then she would not be teaching the child.

Now between the two of us, nna and I have .04 worth to the list.

July 21, 2006

If it had not been for my son's teacher in Pre-K, I would have sued the

school a long time ago. I kiss the ground she walks on. She was SO good. I

wish that my son could be in her class again this year. I am so thankful for

her and other teachers out there like her.

Again, most teachers are not to blame, IMO. The system just sucks.

Anne

-- Re: Re: public school debate

You know, I have been sitting here reading everyones responses. I want you

all to know that I am sorry that you have aparently only run into bad

teachers in your life. Well, they are NOT ALL BAD. There are teachers out

there who actually DO CARE about the children in their classroom and take

them in as their own. In regular ed. as well as special ed. It is VERY

discouraging to read all these responses that are so negative about teachers

Yes, there are some bad teachers out there, maybe more than good, but

there are still good teachers out there!

All my life I have wanted to be a teacher. The children in my classroom are

my students as well as my " children. " I care about each and every one of

them and try to reach them no matter what it takes. When those stuents

leave my class at the end of the year, they are still my " children. " I keep

in contact as much as I can with the families. I know I am not the only

teacher out there that cares the way I do.

I joined this list to get ideas for my families and students with special

needs because I know most do not have internet access. I know I am not an

expert on Autism, but as a teacher with students in my class, I have done

much on my own to learn more and how to help each individual child.

I am sorry for all the issues you all have with public schools. I know that

they are not " the best " in some cases, but do know that there are teachers

who are advocates for children in the schools. It is just as hard for them

to fight for these kids as it is for you..

I know many of you are mad because we " teach to the test. " In many school

districts we are pretty much told waht to teach each 6 weeks. Put the blame

where it belongs, the state, not teachers who are doing what they are told.

I ask that you do not group all teachers as " bad " just because you have may

encountered a few that you view were not good for your child.

wrote:

I completely agree with nna. The test started coming in when my oldest

(34) was in Junior high and I am raising his son that happens to be AU now.

There are very few teachers out there willing to teach more than is required

One of my son's teachers made the remark that if they wanted her to teach

to a test that she could do that but then she would not be teaching the

child.

Now between the two of us, nna and I have .04 worth to the list.

July 21, 2006

What you are overlooking is that the system itself is rotten. If teachers

have to fight just as hard as parents and are having no better results,

obviously there is something very wrong with the way the schools are

structured and run. This is an issue that goes way beyond individual

teachers, but teachers do play an important role, so let's examine that.

I have heard this response many times from teachers -- I come from a family

of teachers, many of whom are currently teaching, and I have several friends

who teach in the public school system. Whenever we discuss the public

schools I always hear this -- " well, I'm sorry you had a bad experience but

there ARE good teachers. "

What relevance does this statement have? When you go to a doctor who turns

out to be a lousy doctor you don't continue to go to him/her just because

OTHER doctors are good. If your insurance agent doesn't do his/job you don't

still give him/her your business because OTHER agents are honest. When a

retail store provides shoddy products or services you do not continue to

spend your money there because OTHER stores have good products. If they

continue to provide poor service and poor product, they go out of business.

This is exactly what should happen to the public schools. But unless we can

afford private school or are able to homeschool we are FORCED by law to stay

with the product the public schools provide because there are no options.

The public schools will fight very hard to maintain their control over

American students. And believe me, public school employees HATE it when you

homeschool. They are very threatened by the idea that a mere parent could do

what they do. There are efforts all over the United States to force

homeschooling parents to jump through so many legal hoops it becomes

virtually impossible to homeschool. Those efforts are spearheaded by the

public school lobby (teacher's unions) who are scared of losing their jobs

and influence.

So the public school product is shoddy and overall the service is worse but

they keep right on churning out inferior product and demanding more and more

money for it, which they extort from us by force because if you don't pay

your taxes the IRS knocks on your door, and if you don't send your kids to

school, child protective services gets involved. If the public schools were

put into a true market economy where the consumer (us parents and our

children) had real options to spend OUR money the way we thought best, the

public schools as they exist now would cease to exist (no more diversity

training, hallelujah!!!!)

However, because administrators and teachers are insulated from real

consequences for their actions, there is no change and there won't be -- the

only recourse families have is to sue and that's horrendously expensive,

time-consuming, difficult to do successfully, and generally, in the long

run, results in legislation that doesn't accomplish what it was supposed to

and just adds another layer of stupid bureaucracy to the schools.

I have yet to personally see ANY teacher really stand up and fight for a

student in any meaningful way. All I've seen teachers do in public is

politically-correct, toe-the-policy-line, don't-make-anyone-mad bowing down

to administrators who don't want to pay for anything. They'd rather siphon

money off the special education budget to spend on sports arenas and

" capital improvements " which usually means a nicer office for the

superintendent. I don't know if this is happening in Texas but it definitely

was in Oregon thanks to a loophole that allowed the schools to move money

out of the special education allocation and into other budgets! I've sat

through endless I.E.P. meetings and frequently the teachers tell us one

thing in private and then say something completely different in the I.E.P.

meeting.

And, if even if I HAD seen a teacher fight like this, so what? One or two

teachers out of hundreds or even thousands who refuse to fight for anything

other than better retirement benefits is a drop in an ocean so big it will

never be noticed. It might help one child but there are THOUSANDS who need

help they aren't getting. What are we going to do for those thousands?

It's a myth that all teachers enter the profession because they love

children and are dedicated to teaching. A lot of them enter the profession

because (1) it's a job that allows them to be home when their children are

out of school, (2) it's a job that has a fabulous vacation schedule and good

pay (despite the propaganda about low pay, teaching is NOT a low-paying job

in most areas; check out the statistics), (3) it's a second alternative

after another career didn't work out, (4) it has great benefits, huge

respect from most of the population and is about the most secure job you can

find. There are LOTS of reasons for people to become teachers and just like

any other profession there are plenty that are " okay but not great " and

plenty that shouldn't be in the business. But just try to get rid of the bad

ones. No way. Won't happen. The teacher's unions have made it virtually

impossible to fire a teacher for poor performance. You can't even get an

administrator to give you a meaningful, measurable definition of " good "

performance, let alone identify bad performance. And the minute anyone

suggests that a teacher is not good the education establishment jumps all

over them, trotting out the " teachers are dedicated, unsung heroes " line and

the " well, you can't judge a teacher's performance because that will impair

their ability to do their jobs " line. I, for one, am really tired of hearing

that. I wish I could use everyone's tax dollars to buy such a good PR team.

The rest of us who work get fired if we don't do a good job.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing teachers say " well, I'M not like that. "

All the administrators say the same thing. So who exactly is causing all the

problems in the system? Someone is, but no one wants to step up and say

" yes, I have some responsibility here " or " you're right, we need to fix this

and here's how we're going to do it. " Until this attitude of " well,

everything is fine HERE " goes away NOTHING will change because no one will

see any need to change their own behavior. This just infuriates me.

ly, I don't understand the awe and reverence in which public school

employees are held today. I've taught school. It's hard work. So are

millions of other jobs. So what? Let's be honest. The world survived just

fine for THOUSANDS of years without a public school system (guess who were

the teachers? PARENTS and other family members). The public school system is

not sacred. It is not essential to the happiness or productivity of our

children. It's not essential to the survival of our nation. If the public

school system ceases to exist we will find another -- and probably BETTER --

way to educate our children.

I'd have a lot more respect for teachers if they would stop repeating

" WELL, WE " RE NOT ALL BAD " and instead HELP GET RID of the bad ones and

OVERHAUL THE SYSTEM. If you run with bad company, you get tarred with the

same brush.

Tammi

_____

From: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

[mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy ] On Behalf Of c h

Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:29 AM

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Re: public school debate

You know, I have been sitting here reading everyones responses. I want you

all to know that I am sorry that you have aparently only run into bad

teachers in your life. Well, they are NOT ALL BAD. There are teachers out

there who actually DO CARE about the children in their classroom and take

them in as their own. In regular ed. as well as special ed. It is VERY

discouraging to read all these responses that are so negative about

teachers. Yes, there are some bad teachers out there, maybe more than good,

but there are still good teachers out there!

All my life I have wanted to be a teacher. The children in my classroom are

my students as well as my " children. " I care about each and every one of

them and try to reach them no matter what it takes. When those stuents leave

my class at the end of the year, they are still my " children. " I keep in

contact as much as I can with the families. I know I am not the only teacher

out there that cares the way I do.

I joined this list to get ideas for my families and students with special

needs because I know most do not have internet access. I know I am not an

expert on Autism, but as a teacher with students in my class, I have done

much on my own to learn more and how to help each individual child.

I am sorry for all the issues you all have with public schools. I know that

they are not " the best " in some cases, but do know that there are teachers

who are advocates for children in the schools. It is just as hard for them

to fight for these kids as it is for you..

I know many of you are mad because we " teach to the test. " In many school

districts we are pretty much told waht to teach each 6 weeks. Put the blame

where it belongs, the state, not teachers who are doing what they are told.

I ask that you do not group all teachers as " bad " just because you have may

encountered a few that you view were not good for your child.

wrote: I completely agree with nna. The test started coming in when my

oldest (34) was in Junior high and I am raising his son that happens to be

AU now. There are very few teachers out there willing to teach more than is

required.

One of my son's teachers made the remark that if they wanted her to teach to

a test that she could do that but then she would not be teaching the child.

Now between the two of us, nna and I have .04 worth to the list.

July 21, 2006

Hi :

I agree—I married one of those great and dedicated teachers 20 years ago.

Now, that teacher is the mother of 4 (2 on the spectrum). Our family would

be lost without her. That teacher is a.

We know several great teachers who love our boys and truly care about their

educational needs and, their future. They obviously didn’t choose that

profession because of the financial gain that comes from those high teacher

salaries; they choose to be a teacher to educate kids—all kids.

I for one thank God that we have teacher on this list that want to learn

more so they can better serve their students and make a positive difference

in a young life.

My best…

-------------------------------------------------------

Peacefully,

Jeff Sell, Esq.

Director of Chapters & Membership

Autism Society of America

7910 Woodmont Ave., Suite 300

Bethesda, MD 20814-3067

ext. 104 (office)

(cell)

(fax)

(e-fax)

www.autism-society.org

jzsell@...

jsell@...

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From: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

[mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy ] On Behalf Of

Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 9:57 AM

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Re: public school debate

All Teacher are not bad. There is a very elite small group that I have known

that truly care about the children. There was one teacher at my grandson's

EC- 3rd grade school and there was another at his Dad's 4-6th grade classes

and a whole school in Houston, a magnet program that my younger son attended

so not all teacher's are bad just the ones that have taught my child and

abused him.