Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Tami, I so feel your pain. Been there done that. What I can offer you is prayer. I will pray for you tonight. I had to quit my job to train my kid. 5 1/2 was the age we finally potty trained 100%. I was just constantly on him every 30 minutes to go potty. What I always chanted to him was, Where does the pee pee go? He would say Pee pee goes in the potty. Same for the other. Non verbal? Same chant, but pictures is what I would do. Every 30 minutes, consistency, over and over, accident after accident. Dump the diampers completely. That's my advice to you from my experience but I will do something better and say a prayer for you ok? God bless you. - C Toilet Training HELP!! My son Spencer is about to be 5 and i'm beginning to feel the pains of him not being toilet trained yet. (He's growing out of and fillin up his diapers!!) Please send me any resources you have that can get us on our way. We have tried a few different techniques, but i need more advice and or techniques that any of you have used that have created success! Spencer has moderately delayed receptive skills, but is nonverbal. We need a program that can be easily integrated at home, at the nanny's, and at school. Please send any links, books, advice, etc. to me directly at tamieichenberger@.... I desperately need your help!! Texas Autism Advocacy www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org Texas Disability Network Calendar of Events www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 http://www.do2learn.org/picturecards/printcards/index.htm has free picture cards for this and other things. Tonya -----Original Message----- From: cristinahavlik@... >>Non verbal? Same chant, but pictures is what I would do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Have you tried the positive practice potty training method? My son was 7 when he was finally ready and it took me 2 weeks with some reminding now and then. We used 2 pull ups at night and I think they also make diaper extenders kind of like a pad you put in the diaper. This should help at least short term. Toilet Training HELP!! My son Spencer is about to be 5 and i'm beginning to feel the pains of him not being toilet trained yet. (He's growing out of and fillin up his diapers!!) Please send me any resources you have that can get us on our way. We have tried a few different techniques, but i need more advice and or techniques that any of you have used that have created success! Spencer has moderately delayed receptive skills, but is nonverbal. We need a program that can be easily integrated at home, at the nanny's, and at school. Please send any links, books, advice, etc. to me directly at tamieichenberger@.... I desperately need your help!! Texas Autism Advocacy www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org Texas Disability Network Calendar of Events www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 oh yes potty training... We did not start until my little guy was 5.5. It was a " project " . We used the " positive practice " strategy from Foxx and Azrin (spelling). We were also very militant about our methodology and I used a behavior analyst to help trouble shoot to make sure I was not prompting too much and going in the 'right' direction. I ran the house like a five star General with data sheets and EVERYONE (including Daddy, Grandparents and big brother) was held accountable for their BEHAVIOR in this HUGE PROJECT. My goal was not just going potty when I took him to the bathroom but true independent use of the bathroom. So, that was an extension of the project and quite frankly was above and beyond what anybody thought possible. This was not going to happen in school because they were insistent on a potty schedule... Mason is non-verbal with many physical difficulties and unfortunately severely affected by autism but at 7 years he is 100% independently potty trained and never wets the bed at night. It did not take a year and a half to complete but it also did not take a weekend either... This is a child that folks would have been happy if he just sat still for 2 seconds and put a block in a bucket!!!! So, it can be done with many of our children. I am so proud of this accomplishment and many others that he has proved he could do. But none of this was done easily for us. Many tears, frustration, and times when I almost gave up. Fortunately I had someone help me who knew exactly what to do and was ALWAYS CONFIDENT that Mason would be potty trained. What I am trying to say, this can be done but ask for help. Your help should also be able to tell you about their success rate with the program they are using. Make sure your child's program is always tweaked in order to make sure you continue to make progress towards your goal. Many potty training programs talk about buying favorite underwear and decorate the bathroom... This would have made zero impact on Mason. He had to be taught step by step how to use the bathroom, plain and simple. He was always rewarded with his things that were rewarding for him. Which was doors... We had to lock all doors in the house. Any time he went potty in the toilet he was given access to any door in the house he wanted for a few minutes. Then it was locked back up and Mason was given LOTS AND LOTS OF WATERED DOWN COKE. This was all broken down into minutes and tally's were made on a data sheet to indicate whether or not he was dry or wet (accident). When he had an accident we would use what is called " positive practice " where we would go to the spot where he had an accident and he would touch his wet pants and we would say in a mono-toned voiced " you are wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " Then we would go to the bathroom and he would pull his pants down sit on the potty then pull his pants back up and then we would walk over to the accident spot again and touch his wet pants and say again " your wet... " go back to the bathroom pull pants down sit on potty pull pants back up and then go back to the accident. Do this 5 times. Yes, exhausting but having a child who is not potty trained is far more exhausting... Also, when ever you check to see if your child is wet/dry and if he/she is dry you praise them for having dry pants and then give them a drink of something that is reinforcing. For Mason it was coke which was watered down. Not all children need such strict adherence to a program, but Mason did because he can be such a tough cookie to teach. Sorry so long. Just a proud Mama and I know you can be too. Big smiles and good-luck. Liz Oh, throw away the diapers! Just a little reinforcement for your bank account... > Tami, > I so feel your pain. Been there done that. What I can offer you is > prayer. I will pray for you tonight. I had to quit my job to train > my kid. 5 1/2 was the age we finally potty trained 100%. I was > just constantly on him every 30 minutes to go potty. What I always > chanted to him was, Where does the pee pee go? He would say Pee pee > goes in the potty. Same for the other. Non verbal? Same chant, > but pictures is what I would do. Every 30 minutes, consistency, > over and over, accident after accident. Dump the diampers > completely. That's my advice to you from my experience but I will > do something better and say a prayer for you ok? > > God bless you. > - C > > Toilet Training > > > HELP!! My son Spencer is about to be 5 and i'm beginning to feel the > pains of him not being toilet trained yet. (He's growing out of and > fillin up his diapers!!) Please send me any resources you have that > can get us on our way. We have tried a few different techniques, but > i need more advice and or techniques that any of you have used that > have created success! Spencer has moderately delayed receptive skills, > but is nonverbal. We need a program that can be easily integrated at > home, at the nanny's, and at school. > > Please send any links, books, advice, etc. to me directly at > tamieichenberger@.... > > I desperately need your help!! > > > > > > > Texas Autism Advocacy > www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org > > Texas Disability Network > Calendar of Events > www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Great strategy. How did you accomplish the overnight portion? I still put my 7 year old in overnites. Thanks, Aliza Liz and Troy wrote: oh yes potty training... We did not start until my little guy was 5.5. It was a " project " . We used the " positive practice " strategy from Foxx and Azrin (spelling). We were also very militant about our methodology and I used a behavior analyst to help trouble shoot to make sure I was not prompting too much and going in the 'right' direction. I ran the house like a five star General with data sheets and EVERYONE (including Daddy, Grandparents and big brother) was held accountable for their BEHAVIOR in this HUGE PROJECT. My goal was not just going potty when I took him to the bathroom but true independent use of the bathroom. So, that was an extension of the project and quite frankly was above and beyond what anybody thought possible. This was not going to happen in school because they were insistent on a potty schedule... Mason is non-verbal with many physical difficulties and unfortunately severely affected by autism but at 7 years he is 100% independently potty trained and never wets the bed at night. It did not take a year and a half to complete but it also did not take a weekend either... This is a child that folks would have been happy if he just sat still for 2 seconds and put a block in a bucket!!!! So, it can be done with many of our children. I am so proud of this accomplishment and many others that he has proved he could do. But none of this was done easily for us. Many tears, frustration, and times when I almost gave up. Fortunately I had someone help me who knew exactly what to do and was ALWAYS CONFIDENT that Mason would be potty trained. What I am trying to say, this can be done but ask for help. Your help should also be able to tell you about their success rate with the program they are using. Make sure your child's program is always tweaked in order to make sure you continue to make progress towards your goal. Many potty training programs talk about buying favorite underwear and decorate the bathroom... This would have made zero impact on Mason. He had to be taught step by step how to use the bathroom, plain and simple. He was always rewarded with his things that were rewarding for him. Which was doors... We had to lock all doors in the house. Any time he went potty in the toilet he was given access to any door in the house he wanted for a few minutes. Then it was locked back up and Mason was given LOTS AND LOTS OF WATERED DOWN COKE. This was all broken down into minutes and tally's were made on a data sheet to indicate whether or not he was dry or wet (accident). When he had an accident we would use what is called " positive practice " where we would go to the spot where he had an accident and he would touch his wet pants and we would say in a mono-toned voiced " you are wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " Then we would go to the bathroom and he would pull his pants down sit on the potty then pull his pants back up and then we would walk over to the accident spot again and touch his wet pants and say again " your wet... " go back to the bathroom pull pants down sit on potty pull pants back up and then go back to the accident. Do this 5 times. Yes, exhausting but having a child who is not potty trained is far more exhausting... Also, when ever you check to see if your child is wet/dry and if he/she is dry you praise them for having dry pants and then give them a drink of something that is reinforcing. For Mason it was coke which was watered down. Not all children need such strict adherence to a program, but Mason did because he can be such a tough cookie to teach. Sorry so long. Just a proud Mama and I know you can be too. Big smiles and good-luck. Liz Oh, throw away the diapers! Just a little reinforcement for your bank account... > Tami, > I so feel your pain. Been there done that. What I can offer you is > prayer. I will pray for you tonight. I had to quit my job to train > my kid. 5 1/2 was the age we finally potty trained 100%. I was > just constantly on him every 30 minutes to go potty. What I always > chanted to him was, Where does the pee pee go? He would say Pee pee > goes in the potty. Same for the other. Non verbal? Same chant, > but pictures is what I would do. Every 30 minutes, consistency, > over and over, accident after accident. Dump the diampers > completely. That's my advice to you from my experience but I will > do something better and say a prayer for you ok? > > God bless you. > - C > > Toilet Training > > > HELP!! My son Spencer is about to be 5 and i'm beginning to feel the > pains of him not being toilet trained yet. (He's growing out of and > fillin up his diapers!!) Please send me any resources you have that > can get us on our way. We have tried a few different techniques, but > i need more advice and or techniques that any of you have used that > have created success! Spencer has moderately delayed receptive skills, > but is nonverbal. We need a program that can be easily integrated at > home, at the nanny's, and at school. > > Please send any links, books, advice, etc. to me directly at > tamieichenberger@.... > > I desperately need your help!! > > > > > > > Texas Autism Advocacy > www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org > > Texas Disability Network > Calendar of Events > www.TexasAutismAdvocacy.org > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 >>My goal was not just going potty when I took him to the bathroom but true independent use of the bathroom. So, that was an extension of the project and quite frankly was above and beyond what anybody thought possible. This was not going to happen in school because they were insistent on a potty schedule...<< Congrats on your success with your son! Ben generally stays dry all day at school(wears underwear) but he is on a schedule. At home, we don't have as much luck with him staying dry but I'm sure we are mostly to blame for that because our schedule is not always as strict as the school's--then it's especially hard for me when Jeff is out of town.(is that a sufficient amount of excuses?? Please...do tell how you were able to get your child to INITIATE going--that's the big issue with Ben. He'll stay dry on a schedule but does not initiate so there's no true independence. Thanks! a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 OK you can just replace Ben with Mason's name... Although Mason would have never just gone to the bathroom on his own, because on the way to the bathroom he would have found a door to stim on!!! Mason started doing the " pee pee dance " because he began to realize that if he had an accident he would have to do positive practice. Although positive practice is not mean or abusive it sure is not fun, especially when there are some good doors to open and close when he did not have an accident. So he started " holding it'. I think he was still trying to figure the whole process out. He knew he did not want to go potty in his pants but with all of his motor planning issues it was just so difficult for him to jump start his first plan of action which was walking to the bathroom. That is where guiding him to the bathroom with my back turned came into play. I knew that if I took him to the bathroom he would go like a race horse but if I backed him into the bathroom he was still going into the bathroom but this time somewhat on his own. Once in the bathroom he needed some physical prompts like a tug on the pants but those quickly faded other wise he would have become dependent upon that small prompt. Usually by this time he was shivering because he had to go pee so bad all I had to do was point to the potty without saying a word or even looking at him and he would quickly sit down and go to the bathroom. moaning and smiling... How internally reinforcing that was for him to finally GO!. Big smiles. I immediately hugged and kissed him and told him how proud I was. I would help him put back on his underwear and pants because by this time he had kicked them off, and then quickly said, " Which door to you want to play with? " and he was able to slam a door for about 10 minutes and then it all started all over again... The key to this program is for the child to understand the correction procedure. Once they understand what happens EVERY TIME they go potty in their pants they start to hold it until they get the complete plan... I guess the " pee pee dance may have been considered a maladaptive mand, again not a professional here... He does not do the " dance " that often anymore, but sometimes when he wakes up in the morning and does not go directly to the bathroom I see him acting somewhat confused and walking around by the bathroom. I will just walk over to him and nudge him into the bathroom and walk quickly away and he will go to the bathroom. Mason is a tough one, he has a lot of motor planning issues and I never saw it more than I did with potty training. It was a keen insight into how difficult it is for Mason to do some of the most simplest of tasks. Dressing is difficult for him too. But he can now put his underwear and pants on like a champ mostly because he chooses to be naked so many times through out the day that I have many teachable moments. Oh and the shoe thing... Mason's are in the car because that is where he takes them off and I just leave them there. It beats having to hunt for them in the morning!!! Big smiles. I believe we may be soul sisters... Good-luck and oh, ALWAYS ASK FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP! I owe Gail big time!!! Liz PS, I forgot about Crawford. She is Board Certified too! > > . I would pump fluids and cont dry/wet pant checks always >> praising dry pant checks and doing positive practice for accidents. >> When I saw him doing the universal " pee pee dance " I would herd >> him >> to the bathroom by SAYING NOTHING AND WITHOUT GIVING HIM ANY EYE >> CONTACT, just an occasional bump towards the bathroom with my >> hip or >> a slight touch with my hand, usually with my back to him. > > > Liz, > > I've never seen Ben do the " universal pee dance " --if he's going > to have an accident, he just goes as far as I can tell. How did you > have the opportunity to notice your son was ready to go--did you > just completely hang out with him all day? The teachers at school > say that when he changes rooms--like will leave the class to go > into the motor lab room next door or visa versa, that's an > indication to them that he needs to go. I've been at school and > they will just say, " OK Ben, go to the bathroom " and he'll leave to > go--it's a small walk from their classroom and he will go totally > on his own--even wash his hands! I've been at school a few times > and witnessed this(by spying). I couldn't believe it! The > disadvantage at home is that he will not wear his shoes or socks in > the house--ever. Once he gets home from somewhere, that's the > first thing to come off. He is totally independent in the restroom > when he has his shoes on because his pants stop at his shoes, then > he only has to pull them up. But wihout his shoes on at home, he > pulls his underwear and pants completely off so he then need > assistance to put it all back on. The obvious thing to do is make > him keep his shoes on in the house at least while toilet training > but he would be so miserable--as it is, he will hit his head if we > don't get the shoes off fast enough! These are the little issues > we're dealing with with Ben--any ideas? Maybe I need some > professional help too! > > a > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 a & Liz, Add my Garrett to your list of shoe hating nudists! He will wear clothes to go somewhere but always has a pair of athletic shorts under them. He strips down to those shorts the minute he gets in the car if not the second he leaves the school door. His shoes live in the car too!! Tonya -----Original Message----- From: Texas-Autism-Advocacy On Behalf Of Liz and Troy Oh and the shoe thing... Mason's are in the car because that is where he takes them off and I just leave them there. It beats having to hunt for them in the morning!!! Big smiles. I believe we may be soul sisters... Good-luck and oh, ALWAYS ASK FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP! I owe Gail big time!!! Liz PS, I forgot about Crawford. She is Board Certified too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Liz, Thanks so much for all the great information--you're probably sorry you brought up the subject now! I hate to ask yet another question, but what does the " positive practice " involve? You've given me alot of great ideas--I really appreciate it. a Re: Toilet Training OK you can just replace Ben with Mason's name... Although Mason would have never just gone to the bathroom on his own, because on the way to the bathroom he would have found a door to stim on!!! Mason started doing the " pee pee dance " because he began to realize that if he had an accident he would have to do positive practice. Although positive practice is not mean or abusive it sure is not fun, especially when there are some good doors to open and close when he did not have an accident. So he started " holding it'. I think he was still trying to figure the whole process out. He knew he did not want to go potty in his pants but with all of his motor planning issues it was just so difficult for him to jump start his first plan of action which was walking to the bathroom. That is where guiding him to the bathroom with my back turned came into play. I knew that if I took him to the bathroom he would go like a race horse but if I backed him into the bathroom he was still going into the bathroom but this time somewhat on his own. Once in the bathroom he needed some physical prompts like a tug on the pants but those quickly faded other wise he would have become dependent upon that small prompt. Usually by this time he was shivering because he had to go pee so bad all I had to do was point to the potty without saying a word or even looking at him and he would quickly sit down and go to the bathroom. moaning and smiling... How internally reinforcing that was for him to finally GO!. Big smiles. I immediately hugged and kissed him and told him how proud I was. I would help him put back on his underwear and pants because by this time he had kicked them off, and then quickly said, " Which door to you want to play with? " and he was able to slam a door for about 10 minutes and then it all started all over again... The key to this program is for the child to understand the correction procedure. Once they understand what happens EVERY TIME they go potty in their pants they start to hold it until they get the complete plan... I guess the " pee pee dance may have been considered a maladaptive mand, again not a professional here... He does not do the " dance " that often anymore, but sometimes when he wakes up in the morning and does not go directly to the bathroom I see him acting somewhat confused and walking around by the bathroom. I will just walk over to him and nudge him into the bathroom and walk quickly away and he will go to the bathroom. Mason is a tough one, he has a lot of motor planning issues and I never saw it more than I did with potty training. It was a keen insight into how difficult it is for Mason to do some of the most simplest of tasks. Dressing is difficult for him too. But he can now put his underwear and pants on like a champ mostly because he chooses to be naked so many times through out the day that I have many teachable moments. Oh and the shoe thing... Mason's are in the car because that is where he takes them off and I just leave them there. It beats having to hunt for them in the morning!!! Big smiles. I believe we may be soul sisters... Good-luck and oh, ALWAYS ASK FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP! I owe Gail big time!!! Liz PS, I forgot about Crawford. She is Board Certified too! > > . I would pump fluids and cont dry/wet pant checks always >> praising dry pant checks and doing positive practice for accidents. >> When I saw him doing the universal " pee pee dance " I would herd >> him >> to the bathroom by SAYING NOTHING AND WITHOUT GIVING HIM ANY EYE >> CONTACT, just an occasional bump towards the bathroom with my >> hip or >> a slight touch with my hand, usually with my back to him. > > > Liz, > > I've never seen Ben do the " universal pee dance " --if he's going > to have an accident, he just goes as far as I can tell. How did you > have the opportunity to notice your son was ready to go--did you > just completely hang out with him all day? The teachers at school > say that when he changes rooms--like will leave the class to go > into the motor lab room next door or visa versa, that's an > indication to them that he needs to go. I've been at school and > they will just say, " OK Ben, go to the bathroom " and he'll leave to > go--it's a small walk from their classroom and he will go totally > on his own--even wash his hands! I've been at school a few times > and witnessed this(by spying). I couldn't believe it! The > disadvantage at home is that he will not wear his shoes or socks in > the house--ever. Once he gets home from somewhere, that's the > first thing to come off. He is totally independent in the restroom > when he has his shoes on because his pants stop at his shoes, then > he only has to pull them up. But wihout his shoes on at home, he > pulls his underwear and pants completely off so he then need > assistance to put it all back on. The obvious thing to do is make > him keep his shoes on in the house at least while toilet training > but he would be so miserable--as it is, he will hit his head if we > don't get the shoes off fast enough! These are the little issues > we're dealing with with Ben--any ideas? Maybe I need some > professional help too! > > a > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Anytime a. We are all in this together! The potty training issue was such a heavy burden on me. The school did not think Mason could do it, well actually do anything... and then I read, heard about these potty training practices where children are potty trained over the weekend using balloons, fancy underwear, watching videos... That is all great if your child is motivated by those ideas BUT MASON WAS NOT. He could care less what his underwear looked like. Actually he does not even care if they are on backwards or inside out. He does not watch TV or read or listen to books. All the " typical " stuff would NOT work with Mason so I really appreciated Gail coming into my house with a plan to TEACH Mason to go to the bathroom appropriately and independently. " positive practice " is the correction procedure used when your child has an accident. Ex. If your child is sitting at the dinner table and goes potty you immediately get him up and take his hand to feel his wet pants and say in a mono-toned voice without eye contact " your wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " . Then you go to the bathroom and have them pull down their pants and sit for a second on the potty and then have them stand back up and pull up their pants. You walk back to the spot where the accident occurred and again say " you are wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " .( Actually, you can say whatever is comfortable for you. But keep it short and to the point without any type of reinforcement, neg or pos.) You go back to the bathroom pull down pants sit down and stand right back up and pull up pants then back again to the accident spot. Do that 5x's. Then change clothes, again no language and without anything reinforcing. Just get the dressing job done. Then go back to your routine of course with dry/ wet checks. Remember those hugs and kisses with LOTS OF REINFORCING FLUIDS for dry pants. When this is all said and done your little guys kidneys will be FLUSHED CLEAN!!!!!! Positive practice is a whole lot of work and at first your child may think it is fun. ' Wow, look at Mommy she is hanging out with me going back and forth to the bathroom' - giggle giggle, but just wait, it will get old... Especially if pulling down pants and pulling them back up is a challenging task, as it was for Mason. The data sheets that are used are visually reinforcing for the parent and it also helps to guide you and let you know when you can increase the intervals between the dry/wet pants check. If I am remembering correctly, When you first start you are doing dry/wet pants check every 5 minutes. That is a lot of fluid going into your child which then gives them plenty of opportunity for them to go potty or have an accident. Remember, an accident is a teachable moment. I am forgetting to tell you a very important step. At first you TAKE your child to the bathroom every 15 minutes, that would be after 3 dry/wet checks. If you have success give them something INCREDIBLY reinforcing that they only get for going pee pee in the potty. (Gosh if you get the big stuff in the potty, then woo hoo, icing on the cake) For Mason his big time reinforcer was the office door to open and close and he only got that door if he was successful in the bathroom. Otherwise is was locked up tight! After you are successful going to the bathroom every 15 minutes you begin spacing out those intervals. Here is where you need your Professional. I am foggy about the mastery criteria... Sorry... Your professional can provide you with the data sheets needed and those sheets are very important. Those sheets tells a good story and they keep everyone in check. I had the data sheets on a clip board. If I went out and Daddy was 'in charge' or if Grandparents were babysitting it was like the changing of guards by passing the clipboard. Remember, when I said I was militant. That was not an exaggeration. Big smiles. Keep asking questions. If I cannot help I will ask Gail. Much love, Liz > Liz, > > Thanks so much for all the great information--you're probably sorry > you brought up the subject now! I hate to ask yet another > question, but what does the " positive practice " involve? You've > given me alot of great ideas--I really appreciate it. > > a > Re: Toilet Training > > > OK you can just replace Ben with Mason's name... Although Mason > would have never just gone to the bathroom on his own, because on > the > way to the bathroom he would have found a door to stim on!!! Mason > started doing the " pee pee dance " because he began to realize that > if he had an accident he would have to do positive practice. > Although positive practice is not mean or abusive it sure is not > fun, > especially when there are some good doors to open and close when he > did not have an accident. So he started " holding it'. I think he > was still trying to figure the whole process out. He knew he did > not > want to go potty in his pants but with all of his motor planning > issues it was just so difficult for him to jump start his first plan > of action which was walking to the bathroom. That is where guiding > him to the bathroom with my back turned came into play. I knew that > if I took him to the bathroom he would go like a race horse but if I > backed him into the bathroom he was still going into the bathroom > but > this time somewhat on his own. Once in the bathroom he needed some > physical prompts like a tug on the pants but those quickly faded > other wise he would have become dependent upon that small prompt. > Usually by this time he was shivering because he had to go pee so > bad > all I had to do was point to the potty without saying a word or even > looking at him and he would quickly sit down and go to the bathroom. > moaning and smiling... How internally reinforcing that was for him > to finally GO!. Big smiles. I immediately hugged and kissed him > and > told him how proud I was. I would help him put back on his > underwear > and pants because by this time he had kicked them off, and then > quickly said, " Which door to you want to play with? " and he was > able to slam a door for about 10 minutes and then it all started all > over again... The key to this program is for the child to understand > the correction procedure. Once they understand what happens EVERY > TIME they go potty in their pants they start to hold it until they > get the complete plan... I guess the " pee pee dance may have been > considered a maladaptive mand, again not a professional here... He > does not do the " dance " that often anymore, but sometimes when he > wakes up in the morning and does not go directly to the bathroom I > see him acting somewhat confused and walking around by the bathroom. > I will just walk over to him and nudge him into the bathroom and > walk > quickly away and he will go to the bathroom. Mason is a tough one, > he has a lot of motor planning issues and I never saw it more than I > did with potty training. It was a keen insight into how > difficult it > is for Mason to do some of the most simplest of tasks. Dressing is > difficult for him too. But he can now put his underwear and > pants on > like a champ mostly because he chooses to be naked so many times > through out the day that I have many teachable moments. Oh and the > shoe thing... Mason's are in the car because that is where he takes > them off and I just leave them there. It beats having to hunt for > them in the morning!!! Big smiles. I believe we may be soul > sisters... > Good-luck and oh, ALWAYS ASK FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP! I owe Gail big > time!!! > Liz > PS, I forgot about Crawford. She is Board Certified too! > > > > >> >> . I would pump fluids and cont dry/wet pant checks always >>> praising dry pant checks and doing positive practice for >>> accidents. >>> When I saw him doing the universal " pee pee dance " I would herd >>> him >>> to the bathroom by SAYING NOTHING AND WITHOUT GIVING HIM ANY EYE >>> CONTACT, just an occasional bump towards the bathroom with my >>> hip or >>> a slight touch with my hand, usually with my back to him. >> >> >> Liz, >> >> I've never seen Ben do the " universal pee dance " --if he's going >> to have an accident, he just goes as far as I can tell. How did you >> have the opportunity to notice your son was ready to go--did you >> just completely hang out with him all day? The teachers at school >> say that when he changes rooms--like will leave the class to go >> into the motor lab room next door or visa versa, that's an >> indication to them that he needs to go. I've been at school and >> they will just say, " OK Ben, go to the bathroom " and he'll leave to >> go--it's a small walk from their classroom and he will go totally >> on his own--even wash his hands! I've been at school a few times >> and witnessed this(by spying). I couldn't believe it! The >> disadvantage at home is that he will not wear his shoes or socks in >> the house--ever. Once he gets home from somewhere, that's the >> first thing to come off. He is totally independent in the restroom >> when he has his shoes on because his pants stop at his shoes, then >> he only has to pull them up. But wihout his shoes on at home, he >> pulls his underwear and pants completely off so he then need >> assistance to put it all back on. The obvious thing to do is make >> him keep his shoes on in the house at least while toilet training >> but he would be so miserable--as it is, he will hit his head if we >> don't get the shoes off fast enough! These are the little issues >> we're dealing with with Ben--any ideas? Maybe I need some >> professional help too! >> >> a >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Liz, You are awesome! Thanks again for all the great information. a Re: Toilet Training Anytime a. We are all in this together! The potty training issue was such a heavy burden on me. The school did not think Mason could do it, well actually do anything... and then I read, heard about these potty training practices where children are potty trained over the weekend using balloons, fancy underwear, watching videos... That is all great if your child is motivated by those ideas BUT MASON WAS NOT. He could care less what his underwear looked like. Actually he does not even care if they are on backwards or inside out. He does not watch TV or read or listen to books. All the " typical " stuff would NOT work with Mason so I really appreciated Gail coming into my house with a plan to TEACH Mason to go to the bathroom appropriately and independently. " positive practice " is the correction procedure used when your child has an accident. Ex. If your child is sitting at the dinner table and goes potty you immediately get him up and take his hand to feel his wet pants and say in a mono-toned voice without eye contact " your wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " . Then you go to the bathroom and have them pull down their pants and sit for a second on the potty and then have them stand back up and pull up their pants. You walk back to the spot where the accident occurred and again say " you are wet. Pee pee goes in the potty " .( Actually, you can say whatever is comfortable for you. But keep it short and to the point without any type of reinforcement, neg or pos.) You go back to the bathroom pull down pants sit down and stand right back up and pull up pants then back again to the accident spot. Do that 5x's. Then change clothes, again no language and without anything reinforcing. Just get the dressing job done. Then go back to your routine of course with dry/ wet checks. Remember those hugs and kisses with LOTS OF REINFORCING FLUIDS for dry pants. When this is all said and done your little guys kidneys will be FLUSHED CLEAN!!!!!! Positive practice is a whole lot of work and at first your child may think it is fun. ' Wow, look at Mommy she is hanging out with me going back and forth to the bathroom' - giggle giggle, but just wait, it will get old... Especially if pulling down pants and pulling them back up is a challenging task, as it was for Mason. The data sheets that are used are visually reinforcing for the parent and it also helps to guide you and let you know when you can increase the intervals between the dry/wet pants check. If I am remembering correctly, When you first start you are doing dry/wet pants check every 5 minutes. That is a lot of fluid going into your child which then gives them plenty of opportunity for them to go potty or have an accident. Remember, an accident is a teachable moment. I am forgetting to tell you a very important step. At first you TAKE your child to the bathroom every 15 minutes, that would be after 3 dry/wet checks. If you have success give them something INCREDIBLY reinforcing that they only get for going pee pee in the potty. (Gosh if you get the big stuff in the potty, then woo hoo, icing on the cake) For Mason his big time reinforcer was the office door to open and close and he only got that door if he was successful in the bathroom. Otherwise is was locked up tight! After you are successful going to the bathroom every 15 minutes you begin spacing out those intervals. Here is where you need your Professional. I am foggy about the mastery criteria... Sorry... Your professional can provide you with the data sheets needed and those sheets are very important. Those sheets tells a good story and they keep everyone in check. I had the data sheets on a clip board. If I went out and Daddy was 'in charge' or if Grandparents were babysitting it was like the changing of guards by passing the clipboard. Remember, when I said I was militant. That was not an exaggeration. Big smiles. Keep asking questions. If I cannot help I will ask Gail. Much love, Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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