Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 >To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist,> sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil> is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness> and cold, a word that man has created to describe the> absence of God. I've always enjoyed this story. I'd just like to add my opinion that there is no place where there is a true absence of God, only our perception that such an absence exists. The result of that perception is the same, of course, i.e., "evil," but when one wakes up to the fact that there is no place where there is no God then evil truly can be shown not to exist. Blissings, Sam Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper StickerMany of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi Choose your illusion carefully. ~ UnknownWho looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. Jung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 And that, I cannot believe is true...That there is no evil in the world. I have met it face to face, although not without help. Dear Toni, I know the concept of no evil is quite foreign to you and that's OK. I'm not trying to convince you any differently. Just because we see the world/universe through different lenses doesn't make either of us right or wrong. There's room for both kinds of beliefs - at least in my universe. *S* >G-d does not contain the opposites. My God does, since in my universe there is nothing else but God. Anything that exists must exist within That just as That exists within me. I also believe that there is no duality in God. IOW, there is no "good," no "evil," no time, no no-time, etc, and yet there are all of these things at once. That's something I believe and something I can understand and yet can't explicate. >I don't like to see evil minimized. That is the way to under-rate it, and >perhaps fall prey to it. My opinion at least....and Jung's I may add. I don't think I'm minimizing evil (or sin or hell) by accepting a description of it that describes it as a perceived separation from God, which pronouncement of what constituted hell was one of II's most significant, IMO. When it befalls me it feels very real indeed. But that doesn't make it real no matter how I might insist that it is. Just because I believe something doesn't make it true; just because I don't believe something doesn't make it untrue, either. And that's my opinion no matter whose opinion it might or might not agree with. *S* Blissings, Sam If everyone is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking. -- Denis WaitleyIt is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -- AristotleThe goal of an argument should be progress, not victory. -- Author unknownAccept complete responsibility both for understanding and for being understood. -- He's a blockhead who wants a proof of what he can't perceive; And he's a fool who tries to make such a blockhead believe. -- Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Dear Sam, And that, I cannot believe is true...That there is no evil in the world. I have met it face to face, although not without help. Evil is a mystery, and privatio boni is the Roman Catholic way to find that G-d does not contain the opposites. Understandably, that wouldn't suit. I don't like to see evil minimized. That is the way to under-rate it, and perhaps fall prey to it. My opinion at least....and Jung's I may add. Toni Re: Privatio boni dept. >To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist,> sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil> is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness> and cold, a word that man has created to describe the> absence of God. I've always enjoyed this story. I'd just like to add my opinion that there is no place where there is a true absence of God, only our perception that such an absence exists. The result of that perception is the same, of course, i.e., "evil," but when one wakes up to the fact that there is no place where there is no God then evil truly can be shown not to exist. Blissings, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Like to agree Toni, From my experience privately and prof' Evil exists. and Jung was clear on it too. not easy to state it so. F. > Dear Sam, > > And that, I cannot believe is true...That there is no evil in the > world. I have met it face to face, although not without help. > > Evil is a mystery, and privatio boni is the Roman Catholic way to find > that G-d does not contain the opposites. Understandably, that wouldn't > suit. > > I don't like to see evil minimized. That is the way to under-rate it, > and perhaps fall prey to it. My opinion at least....and Jung's I may > add. > > Toni > > > Re: Privatio boni dept. > > > In a message dated 2/23/2006 9:53:38 A.M. Central Standard Time, > IonaDove@... writes: > >To this the student replied, " Evil does not exist, > > sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil > > is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness > > and cold, a word that man has created to describe the > > absence of God. > > I've always enjoyed this story. I'd just like to add my opinion > that there is no place where there is a true absence of God, only > our perception that such an absence exists. The result of that > perception is the same, of course, i.e., " evil, " but when one wakes > up to the fact that there is no place where there is no God then > evil truly can be shown not to exist. > > Blissings, > Sam > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 > > > > > ____________________________________ > > > >Interesting !!! > > > > > >A University professor at a well known institution of > > > higher learning challenged his students with this > > > question. > > > > > > " Did God create everything that exists? " > > > > > > A student bravely replied, " Yes he did! " > > > > > > " God created everything? " The professor asked. > > > > > > " Yes sir, he certainly did, " the student replied. > > > > > > The professor answered, " If God created everything; > > > then God created evil. > > > > > > And, since evil exists, and according to the principle > > > that our works define who we are, then we can assume > > > God is evil. " > > > > > > The student became quiet and did not answer the > > > professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, > > > quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students > > > that he had proven once more that the Christian faith > > > was a myth. > > > > > > Another student raised his hand and said, " May I ask > > > you a question, professor? " > > > > > > " Of course " , replied the professor. > > > > > > The student stood up and asked, " Professor, does cold > > > exist? " > > > > > > " What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. > > > Have you never been cold? " > > > > > > The other students snickered at the young man's > > > question. > > > > > > The young man replied, " In fact, sir, cold does not > > > exist. According to the laws of physics, what we > > > consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. > > > > > > Every body or object is susceptible to study when it > > > has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body > > > or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 > > > F) is the total absence of heat. And all matter > > > becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that > > > temperature. > > > > > > Cold does not exist. We have created this word to > > > describe how we feel if we have no heat. " > > > > > > The student continued, " Professor, does darkness > > > exist? " > > > > > > The professor responded, " Of course it does. " > > > > > > The student replied, " Once again you are wrong, sir, > > > darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality > > > the absence of light. Light we can study, but not > > > darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break > > > white light into many colors and study the various > > > wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure > > > darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world > > > of darkness and illuminate it. > > > > > > How can you know how dark a certain space is? You > > > measure the amount of light present. Isn't this > > > correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe > > > what happens when there is no light present. " > > > > > > Finally the young man asked the professor, " Sir, does > > > evil exist? " > > > > > > Now uncertain, the professor responded, " Of course, as > > > I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the > > > daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in > > > the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the > > > world. These manifestations are nothing else but > > > evil. " > > > > > > To this the student replied, " Evil does not exist, > > > sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil > > > is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness > > > and cold, a word that man has created to describe the > > > absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the > > > result of what happens when man does not have God's > > > love present in his heart. It's like the cold that > > > comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that > > > comes when there is no light. " > > > > > > > > > > > > The professor sat down. > > > > > > The young man's name -- Albert Einstein and an old man got up and brought into question the logic of absence of... light is darness and the absence of heat is cold and said that there is an enormous leap from these two examples to that of good and evil whereby the absence of one assumes the existance of the other- as in the good-evil notion we are looking at human behaviour not physics but rather 'psychics.' we are not comparing like with like here! and the old man sat down too. F. > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 to point out that this myth wasa "made-up" story.dunno if someone already has pointed thisout ... I've read it on Snopes before but it does make a good starting point for a discussion. *S* For fun you can look up the definition of insanity (doing the same thing over and over expecting different results) and see how many people, including Einstein and Freud, it's attributed to. Blissings, Sam Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper StickerMany of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi Choose your illusion carefully. ~ UnknownWho looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. Jung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 Dear Sam, Absolutely. But personal experience counts, so I must amend what I said: I know I was in the presence of evil, as it seemed to me. It changed my life. I also know full well that good and evil are relative words, and it is only to us human beings that they mean anything. My discernment at that time is all I can go on. But it wasn't a vision of ignorance or anything else I have a name for.( you remember Jung said. We cannot disbelieve another person's experience. It happened to them as they experienced it. It cannot be weighed by human standards of real or unreal....right or wrong.) It is my personal opinion that the statement in Romans is correct as long as we remember to add the last phrase of the sentence: "All things work together for the good, for those who love G-d AND ARE CONFORMED TO HIS PURPOSES." That I can understand and it has been so in my life. But the moment evil showed up I was not conforming to G-d's purpose but was in rebellion, which is a characteristic of the mythic Satan. I have also seen what I can only call evil in action. I was right there and the world still agrees (except for Iran) that what I saw and participated in( very passively) then was evil. So I recognize it from being the "doer" and from being "the done to". There is nothing, in my opinion that the human being is not capable of, from one extreme to the other, and I think it is a negative influence to think we cannot commit evil. I know I can, even if it is only in my mind...or just plain meanness of which I was very capable. And what about all the insults, meanness, bullying, and non acceptance of others? Do we just sluff them off? They are usually not ignorance motivated but often meant to be as they are. So, I remain concerned that we human beings get off too lightly if we believe there is no such thing as evil. I do not understand it, I cannot explain it, but it is a present mystery in my world. Yes, on the metaphysical level, I too believe there is nothing But Being. I also do not see duality in G-d, but I don't really know anything to back up any statement about the G-dhead because I have no clue. Duality is a human word for a human experience...can we really ascribe or negatively ascribe that to Existence itself? ( Hell has always been "the absence of G-d" in theology of at least the last 400 years, but even Augustine in the 5th century said the same.) So, in my way of thinking was reciting truth...on a human level, but in reality There is no place where G-d is not.( If G-d turned away for a second, I would cease to be, a truism I also believe.) I gotta say, I wouldn't want to "believe" something I didn't think was true.? I must see it as true, whether in Reality it is so or not.I must trust my discernment on matters such as this. We just do not have absolute truth at our disposal. That is my opinion. I give to everyone the same as I give myself, our opinions based on experience. Feel free to understand the word 'evil" in any way you wish I was giving mine before also. As far as the universe is concerned...I take it we are both integral parts of it. Will we always see it differently? just wondering, cloud gathering because you and I are in a "never never land" talking about something so far out of reach we cannot even guess.. That cloud of unknowing envelopes us both. In fact, You and I ,Sam will be One in that which we cannot understand, and our difference of opinion today will not matter one bit. love, Toni.. don't believe in "hell". We will all be as one, "no punishment"" no honor", just on different levels as we become more attuned to the Real, then truly One. ( my opinion of course) Re: Privatio boni dept. And that, I cannot believe is true...That there is no evil in the world. I have met it face to face, although not without help. Dear Toni, I know the concept of no evil is quite foreign to you and that's OK. I'm not trying to convince you any differently. Just because we see the world/universe through different lenses doesn't make either of us right or wrong. There's room for both kinds of beliefs - at least in my universe. *S* >G-d does not contain the opposites. My God does, since in my universe there is nothing else but God. Anything that exists must exist within That just as That exists within me. I also believe that there is no duality in God. IOW, there is no "good," no "evil," no time, no no-time, etc, and yet there are all of these things at once. That's something I believe and something I can understand and yet can't explicate. >I don't like to see evil minimized. That is the way to under-rate it, and >perhaps fall prey to it. My opinion at least....and Jung's I may add. I don't think I'm minimizing evil (or sin or hell) by accepting a description of it that describes it as a perceived separation from God, which pronouncement of what constituted hell was one of II's most significant, IMO. When it befalls me it feels very real indeed. But that doesn't make it real no matter how I might insist that it is. Just because I believe something doesn't make it true; just because I don't believe something doesn't make it untrue, either. And that's my opinion no matter whose opinion it might or might not agree with. *S* Blissings, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 - the label " urban myth " applies quite nicely here http://www.snopes.com/religion/einstein.asp surely some level of satisfaction emerges from " comeuppance " of " them mean old athiestic profs " (sic) but it might be more clarity-like to point out that this myth was a " made-up " story. dunno if someone already has pointed this out ... peace, tracy -- In JUNG-FIRE , IonaDove@... wrote: > > > > > > ____________________________________ > > > >Interesting !!! > > > > > >A University professor at a well known institution of > > > higher learning challenged his students with this > > > question. > > > ... <snippage> > > > > > > To this the student replied, " Evil does not exist, > > > sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil > > > is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness > > > and cold, a word that man has created to describe the > > > absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the > > > result of what happens when man does not have God's > > > love present in his heart. It's like the cold that > > > comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that > > > comes when there is no light. " > > > > > > > > > > > > The professor sat down. > > > > > > The young man's name -- Albert Einstein > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 > > > In a message dated 2/24/2006 2:56:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, > tyucikas16@... writes: > > to point out that this myth was > a " made-up " story. > > dunno if someone already has pointed this > out ... > > > > > > I've read it on Snopes before but it does make a good starting point for a > discussion. *S* > > For fun you can look up the definition of insanity (doing the same thing > over and over expecting different results) and see how many people, including > Einstein and Freud, it's attributed to. Brown had a slightly differnet take on the notion of " doing it again " ... poignant lyricas: " And when the morning light comes streaming in You'll get up and do it again Amen Caught between the longing for love And the struggle for the legal tender Where the sirens sing and the church bells ring ..... And well fill in the missing colors In each others paint-by-number dreams And then well put out dark glasses on And well make love until our strength is gone And when the morning light comes streaming in Well get up and do it again Get it up again Im going to be a happy idiot And struggle for the legal tender Where the ads take aim and lay t heir claim To the heart and the soul of the spender And believe in whatever may lie In those things that money can buy Thought true love could have been a contender Are you there? Say a prayer for the pretender Who started out so young and strong Only to surrender peace, tracy > > Blissings, > Sam > > Don't believe everything you think. ~ Bumper Sticker > Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view. > ~ Obi-Wan Kenobi > Choose your illusion carefully. ~ Unknown > Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes. ~ C.G. Jung > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 24, 2006 Report Share Posted February 24, 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________ > > > > > >Interesting !!! > > > > > > > > >A University professor at a well known institution of > > > > higher learning challenged his students with this > > > > question. > > > > > > > > " Did God create everything that exists? " > > > > > > > > A student bravely replied, " Yes he did! " > > > > > > > > " God created everything? " The professor asked. > > > > > > > > " Yes sir, he certainly did, " the student replied. > > > > > > > > The professor answered, " If God created everything; > > > > then God created evil. > > > > > > > > And, since evil exists, and according to the principle > > > > that our works define who we are, then we can assume > > > > God is evil. " > > > > > > > > The student became quiet and did not answer the > > > > professor's hypothetical definition. The professor, > > > > quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students > > > > that he had proven once more that the Christian faith > > > > was a myth. > > > > > > > > Another student raised his hand and said, " May I ask > > > > you a question, professor? " > > > > > > > > " Of course " , replied the professor. > > > > > > > > The student stood up and asked, " Professor, does cold > > > > exist? " > > > > > > > > " What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. > > > > Have you never been cold? " > > > > > > > > The other students snickered at the young man's > > > > question. > > > > > > > > The young man replied, " In fact, sir, cold does not > > > > exist. According to the laws of physics, what we > > > > consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. > > > > > > > > Every body or object is susceptible to study when it > > > > has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body > > > > or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 > > > > F) is the total absence of heat. And all matter > > > > becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that > > > > temperature. > > > > > > > > Cold does not exist. We have created this word to > > > > describe how we feel if we have no heat. " > > > > > > > > The student continued, " Professor, does darkness > > > > exist? " > > > > > > > > The professor responded, " Of course it does. " > > > > > > > > The student replied, " Once again you are wrong, sir, > > > > darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality > > > > the absence of light. Light we can study, but not > > > > darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break > > > > white light into many colors and study the various > > > > wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure > > > > darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world > > > > of darkness and illuminate it. > > > > > > > > How can you know how dark a certain space is? You > > > > measure the amount of light present. Isn't this > > > > correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe > > > > what happens when there is no light present. " > > > > > > > > Finally the young man asked the professor, " Sir, does > > > > evil exist? " > > > > > > > > Now uncertain, the professor responded, " Of course, as > > > > I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the > > > > daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in > > > > the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the > > > > world. These manifestations are nothing else but > > > > evil. " > > > > > > > > To this the student replied, " Evil does not exist, > > > > sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil > > > > is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness > > > > and cold, a word that man has created to describe the > > > > absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the > > > > result of what happens when man does not have God's > > > > love present in his heart. It's like the cold that > > > > comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that > > > > comes when there is no light. " > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The professor sat down. > > > > > > > > The young man's name -- Albert Einstein > > and an old man got up and brought into question the logic of absence > of... light is darness and the absence of heat is cold and said that > there is an enormous leap from these two examples to that of good and > evil whereby the absence of one assumes the existance of the other- as > in the good-evil notion we are looking at human behaviour not physics > but rather 'psychics.' we are not comparing like with like here! and > the old man sat down too. F. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then another stood up and suggested that because there is not light does not mean nothing exists in darkness! And because there is absense of heat does no mean there is nothing... as nothing is an absolute and therefore unknown. But sure! Its all to confound us - What time is it? Sorry! What is time? F. > > > " Our highest duty as human beings is to search out a means whereby > beings may be freed from all kinds of unsatisfactory experience and > suffering. " > > H.H. Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th. Dalai Lama > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.