Guest guest Posted June 1, 1999 Report Share Posted June 1, 1999 Dan, I experienced these horrible abdominal pains when I did strenious physical things. Most of the functions of my liver were destroyed before the procedure was done to me. To this day, if I overdue something physical, those pains recur. We get a lot of our energy from the liver and this PSC destroys some of those functions. Larry P. Dan Bertles wrote: > > Here is the message regarding Abdominal pain. > > Dan > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Abdominal Pain Information > > >From Quantum Media Group, Publisher of the FOCUS: ON HEPATITIS C > INTERNATIONAL Newsletter from the November 1994 issue > > HEPATITIS/LIVER PAIN? > > Many chronic hepatitis C patients have expressed their frustration when it > comes to describing and sharing the experience of various abdominal pains > and discomforts with their physicians. Frequently, these acute or chronic > pains are dismissed as having little or nothing to do with chronic liver > disease. What do physicians know about abdominal pain? Read the following > and learn about the mechanisms of abdominal pain in general and the types of > pain that result from diseases of some specific organs. > > Abdominal organs are unresponsive to many stimuli that normally would elicit > severe pain. For example, cutting or crushing of abdominal organs does not > result in a recognizable sensation. The pain fibers in the viscera (large > interior organs) are generally sensitive only to stretching or increased > wall tension. The causes of stretching or tension vary from intense muscular > contractions. > > In hollow organs such as the intestine or gallbladder, nociceptive fibers > are located in the muscular wall. Afferent (conveying towards a center) > impulses travel along the sympathetic nerves. In solid organs such as the > liver and kidney, such fibers supply the capsule and react to capsular > stretching. An inflammatory reaction to microbes or toxins produces organ > pain (visceral) through the elaboration of tissue hormones or metabolites > (substances produced by metabolism). Four different mechanisms give rise to > abdominal pain: (1) visceral; (2) referred; (3) parietal peritoneal; and (4) > psychogenic. > > Visceral Pain > > Pain resulting from stimulation of sensory afferent nerves innervating > abdominal organs. The pain is often difficult to describe (usually as > cramping or aching), dull in nature, and poorly localized to the midline > from the upper (epigastrium) to the lower abdominal area. The pain may be > accompanied by nausea, vomiting, sweating, pallor, and restlessness. > Patients often move about in bed, occasionally finding relief with a change > in position. > > Referred Pain > > Visceral pain may be referred to a remote area of the body, where it is > perceived as cutaneous pain (sensation of pain in the skin) in an area > supplied by the same spinal cord level as the affected abdominal organ. > Referred pain is usually well localized and appears when noxious visceral > stimuli become more intense. Thus, swelling of the liver capsule by a > hematoma (swollen blood vessels) after liver biopsy is first perceived in > the abdomen but may be referred to the right shoulder. > > Parietal Peritoneal Pain > > When the parietal peritoneum (abdominal membrane that encloses that body > cavity) becomes involved as a result of abdominal pathology (disease > process), nerves supplying the area are stimulated and generally produce > pain that is more intense and more precisely localized than is visceral > pain. The classic example is the localized pain of acute appendicitis. > Parietal pain is often aggravated by movement; hence the patient's desire to > lie completely still. > > Psychogenic Pain > > This is obviously abdominal pain that is perceived but without any local > cause. Unfortunately, this may be a pain mechanism that some physicians > choose to attribute to some chronic hepatitis patients' episodes of pain. > However, as cited above, physicians should take the time to explain and > concede that there are valid causes for different types and intensities of > abdominal pain that arise from our internal organs due to inflammation and > toxic conditions. > > Furthermore > > When the hollow structures of the gallbladder and biliary tract dilate due > to the disease process, pain is experienced in the upper abdomen or right > upper abdomen. Pain may also be referred to the back between the shoulder > blades. Pain from the pancreas is also felt in the upper abdomen and is > often referred to the middle of the back. In a manner analogous to the > liver, gallbladder, and biliary tract on the right, lesions in the tail of > the pancreas that involve the diaphragm, may result in referred pain to the > left shoulder. Bacterial or viral infection of any intraabdominal organ may > cause abdominal pain. Interference with venous or arterial blood flow can > affect the abdominal organs. Clinically this may present as severe abdominal > pain and shock. > > Warning: HAV May Be Deadly for HCV Individuals > > Abdominal Pain > > > > We all feel sorry for ourselves at times. But that's expected. I'm > > really > > surprised your doctor doesn't order a full liver profile, but, believe it > > or > > not, sometimes they can tell just by looking at you how you are doing. > > Maybe you should tell your doctor to order a full profile. Sometimes you > > just have to stand tall and tell them to do what you believe is best for > > you. You are the only one that knows exactly how you feel. I have > > attached > > the information on the abdominal pain. Many doctors are not aware of > > these > > different types of pain and think that we are psychosomatic, when in fact > > the pains we are experiencing are quite real. I hope you find this > > information useful. > > > > And if it's any consolation ... I was the color of saffron at one time *S* > > > > Wishing you a better year in 1999. > > > > Debbie > > > > <<hepc2.htm>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Explore the Web for sites in Health & Medicine from Looksmart! > http://clickhere./click/295 > > eGroups.com home: /group/ > - Simplifying group communications > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Name: hepc2.htm > hepc2.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 1999 Report Share Posted June 1, 1999 Larry, My pains start for no apparent reason at all. I'm usually sitting down though. Dan > Abdominal Pain > > > > > > We all feel sorry for ourselves at times. But that's expected. I'm > > > really > > > surprised your doctor doesn't order a full liver profile, but, believe > it > > > or > > > not, sometimes they can tell just by looking at you how you are doing. > > > Maybe you should tell your doctor to order a full profile. Sometimes > you > > > just have to stand tall and tell them to do what you believe is best > for > > > you. You are the only one that knows exactly how you feel. I have > > > attached > > > the information on the abdominal pain. Many doctors are not aware of > > > these > > > different types of pain and think that we are psychosomatic, when in > fact > > > the pains we are experiencing are quite real. I hope you find this > > > information useful. > > > > > > And if it's any consolation ... I was the color of saffron at one time > *S* > > > > > > Wishing you a better year in 1999. > > > > > > Debbie > > > > > > <<hepc2.htm>> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Explore the Web for sites in Health & Medicine from Looksmart! > > http://clickhere./click/295 > > > > eGroups.com home: /group/ > > - Simplifying group communications > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > Name: hepc2.htm > > hepc2.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > > Encoding: quoted-printable > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > eGroups Spotlight: > " Vietnam Survivors " - If you survived Viet Nam, this is a good > place to talk to others who share your experiences. > http://clickhere./click/122 > > > eGroups.com home: /group/ > - Simplifying group communications > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 1999 Report Share Posted June 1, 1999 Dear Dan, Thank you so much for the very helpful info!!! I'm going to save that for future reference since God has some kind of plan for me from allowing me to suffer physical pain as much as I have!! Ha!! Romans 8:28....it all works for good!!! Maybe it'll make me a better nurse...who knows?? Hope you're feeling great!! Jacquelyn ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 1999 Report Share Posted June 1, 1999 I have noticed that a lot of stress causes some pain, my infections of course cause the pain,...and, when my liver is really inflammed I can't lay a certain way when sleeping, or the pain can be excruciating. Usually when the pain gets really bad, I stop what I am doing, and breathe evenly until it passes. It seems to help. Love, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 1999 Report Share Posted June 2, 1999 Dan, Thanks for the informative message! I have had pain that matched several of these descriptions at different points in this disease. Maybe this will help me to understand a bit better exactly what's going on when I feel a certain kind of pain. Thanks again, athan Dan Bertles wrote: > > Here is the message regarding Abdominal pain. > > Dan > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Abdominal Pain Information > > >From Quantum Media Group, Publisher of the FOCUS: ON HEPATITIS C > INTERNATIONAL Newsletter from the November 1994 issue > > HEPATITIS/LIVER PAIN? > > Many chronic hepatitis C patients have expressed their frustration when it > comes to describing and sharing the experience of various abdominal pains > and discomforts with their physicians. Frequently, these acute or chronic > pains are dismissed as having little or nothing to do with chronic liver > disease. What do physicians know about abdominal pain? Read the following > and learn about the mechanisms of abdominal pain in general and the types of > pain that result from diseases of some specific organs. > > Abdominal organs are unresponsive to many stimuli that normally would elicit > severe pain. For example, cutting or crushing of abdominal organs does not > result in a recognizable sensation. The pain fibers in the viscera (large > interior organs) are generally sensitive only to stretching or increased > wall tension. The causes of stretching or tension vary from intense muscular > contractions. > > In hollow organs such as the intestine or gallbladder, nociceptive fibers > are located in the muscular wall. Afferent (conveying towards a center) > impulses travel along the sympathetic nerves. In solid organs such as the > liver and kidney, such fibers supply the capsule and react to capsular > stretching. An inflammatory reaction to microbes or toxins produces organ > pain (visceral) through the elaboration of tissue hormones or metabolites > (substances produced by metabolism). Four different mechanisms give rise to > abdominal pain: (1) visceral; (2) referred; (3) parietal peritoneal; and (4) > psychogenic. > > Visceral Pain > > Pain resulting from stimulation of sensory afferent nerves innervating > abdominal organs. The pain is often difficult to describe (usually as > cramping or aching), dull in nature, and poorly localized to the midline > from the upper (epigastrium) to the lower abdominal area. The pain may be > accompanied by nausea, vomiting, sweating, pallor, and restlessness. > Patients often move about in bed, occasionally finding relief with a change > in position. > > Referred Pain > > Visceral pain may be referred to a remote area of the body, where it is > perceived as cutaneous pain (sensation of pain in the skin) in an area > supplied by the same spinal cord level as the affected abdominal organ. > Referred pain is usually well localized and appears when noxious visceral > stimuli become more intense. Thus, swelling of the liver capsule by a > hematoma (swollen blood vessels) after liver biopsy is first perceived in > the abdomen but may be referred to the right shoulder. > > Parietal Peritoneal Pain > > When the parietal peritoneum (abdominal membrane that encloses that body > cavity) becomes involved as a result of abdominal pathology (disease > process), nerves supplying the area are stimulated and generally produce > pain that is more intense and more precisely localized than is visceral > pain. The classic example is the localized pain of acute appendicitis. > Parietal pain is often aggravated by movement; hence the patient's desire to > lie completely still. > > Psychogenic Pain > > This is obviously abdominal pain that is perceived but without any local > cause. Unfortunately, this may be a pain mechanism that some physicians > choose to attribute to some chronic hepatitis patients' episodes of pain. > However, as cited above, physicians should take the time to explain and > concede that there are valid causes for different types and intensities of > abdominal pain that arise from our internal organs due to inflammation and > toxic conditions. > > Furthermore > > When the hollow structures of the gallbladder and biliary tract dilate due > to the disease process, pain is experienced in the upper abdomen or right > upper abdomen. Pain may also be referred to the back between the shoulder > blades. Pain from the pancreas is also felt in the upper abdomen and is > often referred to the middle of the back. In a manner analogous to the > liver, gallbladder, and biliary tract on the right, lesions in the tail of > the pancreas that involve the diaphragm, may result in referred pain to the > left shoulder. Bacterial or viral infection of any intraabdominal organ may > cause abdominal pain. Interference with venous or arterial blood flow can > affect the abdominal organs. Clinically this may present as severe abdominal > pain and shock. > > Warning: HAV May Be Deadly for HCV Individuals > > Abdominal Pain > > > > We all feel sorry for ourselves at times. But that's expected. I'm > > really > > surprised your doctor doesn't order a full liver profile, but, believe it > > or > > not, sometimes they can tell just by looking at you how you are doing. > > Maybe you should tell your doctor to order a full profile. Sometimes you > > just have to stand tall and tell them to do what you believe is best for > > you. You are the only one that knows exactly how you feel. I have > > attached > > the information on the abdominal pain. Many doctors are not aware of > > these > > different types of pain and think that we are psychosomatic, when in fact > > the pains we are experiencing are quite real. I hope you find this > > information useful. > > > > And if it's any consolation ... I was the color of saffron at one time *S* > > > > Wishing you a better year in 1999. > > > > Debbie > > > > <<hepc2.htm>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Explore the Web for sites in Health & Medicine from Looksmart! > http://clickhere./click/295 > > eGroups.com home: /group/ > - Simplifying group communications > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: hepc2.htm > hepc2.htm Type: Hypertext Markup Language (text/html) > Encoding: quoted-printable ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 1999 Report Share Posted June 2, 1999 Hi Debbie! Thanks so very much for the info on pain! I will take this with me to the pain management clinic I am supposed to go to in about 2 weeks. I don't know what to expect from these people, but I have been referred there by my docs. The pain has eased up somewhat and isn't every, every day. I am so thankful for this! I just returned from Duke about 2 weeks ago and all of my liver blood works were normal! Then this doc tells me not to get excited because this happens and that I will never get rid of PSC. It will return. On the letter from him he said that now I have diabetes! What next? I have been so up for the last 3 years, but I am losing that smile I have always had -- all of my life. I want to climb, white-water rafting, especial go back to my wonderful job (I was the Society Editor for this area) and work 14 to 16 hours again!! I want to wake up tomorrow and all of this will be gone! I am so very confused about this disease and really my mine can't take more. I have always been a little ditsy, but I am getting really confused now. So if I say something that doesn't make sense, just ignore me! I love this group so very much!! It took me a very long time to find all of you, but it was well worth the wait! Thanks for everything! If there is anything I can do for somebody, please let me know. I would like to start a support group in West Virginia and Virginia, but I don't know how to start this. Maybe someone here knows someone from these areas. Again Thank you so very, very much. Hugs, Biddy PS: I am having a lot of trouble getting e-mail out. If someone doesn't receive a reply from me that is why. I will get someone here to see what is wrong. Abdominal Pain> > We all feel sorry for ourselves at times. But that's expected. I'm> really> surprised your doctor doesn't order a full liver profile, but, believe it> or> not, sometimes they can tell just by looking at you how you are doing.> Maybe you should tell your doctor to order a full profile. Sometimes you> just have to stand tall and tell them to do what you believe is best for> you. You are the only one that knows exactly how you feel. I have> attached> the information on the abdominal pain. Many doctors are not aware of> these> different types of pain and think that we are psychosomatic, when in fact> the pains we are experiencing are quite real. I hope you find this> information useful.> > And if it's any consolation ... I was the color of saffron at one time *S*> > Wishing you a better year in 1999.> > Debbie> > <<hepc2.htm>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------Explore the Web for sites in Health & Medicine from Looksmart!http://clickhere./click/295eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications eGroups.com home: /group/ www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 1999 Report Share Posted June 2, 1999 Hi Debbie! Thanks so very much for the info on pain! I will take this with me to the pain management clinic I am supposed to go to in about 2 weeks. I don't know what to expect from these people, but I have been referred there by my docs. The pain has eased up somewhat and isn't every, every day. I am so thankful for this! I just returned from Duke about 2 weeks ago and all of my liver blood works were normal! Then this doc tells me not to get excited because this happens and that I will never get rid of PSC. It will return. On the letter from him he said that now I have diabetes! What next? I have been so up for the last 3 years, but I am losing that smile I have always had -- all of my life. I want to climb, white-water rafting, especial go back to my wonderful job (I was the Society Editor for this area) and work 14 to 16 hours again!! I want to wake up tomorrow and all of this will be gone! I am so very confused about this disease and really my mine can't take more. I have always been a little ditsy, but I am getting really confused now. So if I say something that doesn't make sense, just ignore me! I love this group so very much!! It took me a very long time to find all of you, but it was well worth the wait! Thanks for everything! If there is anything I can do for somebody, please let me know. I would like to start a support group in West Virginia and Virginia, but I don't know how to start this. Maybe someone here knows someone from these areas. Again Thank you so very, very much. Hugs, Biddy PS: I am having a lot of trouble getting e-mail out. If someone doesn't receive a reply from me that is why. I will get someone here to see what is wrong. Abdominal Pain> > We all feel sorry for ourselves at times. But that's expected. I'm> really> surprised your doctor doesn't order a full liver profile, but, believe it> or> not, sometimes they can tell just by looking at you how you are doing.> Maybe you should tell your doctor to order a full profile. Sometimes you> just have to stand tall and tell them to do what you believe is best for> you. You are the only one that knows exactly how you feel. I have> attached> the information on the abdominal pain. Many doctors are not aware of> these> different types of pain and think that we are psychosomatic, when in fact> the pains we are experiencing are quite real. I hope you find this> information useful.> > And if it's any consolation ... I was the color of saffron at one time *S*> > Wishing you a better year in 1999.> > Debbie> > <<hepc2.htm>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------Explore the Web for sites in Health & Medicine from Looksmart!http://clickhere./click/295eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications eGroups.com home: /group/ www. - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 3, 1999 Report Share Posted June 3, 1999 Biddy, Just remember to keep your chin up. No matter how rotten a day seems, look for the good in it. Last night at work, we were working short staffed and I was so very tired when break time finally came. I was sitting outside when I noticed the birds. They would flap their wings a few times, then they would just float. It was a nice, breezy day. I was thinking of how wonderful it would be to be able to feel that. To just float above everything. Even though I know I would NEVER attempt to sky dive, it did send an awesome peace through me, and I was able to go back to work with a better attititude. About the support groups. I am going to try to get something started for the persons in this group who are willing to run a " live " support group. Are you interested? Love, ------------------------------------------------------------------------ eGroups.com home: /group/ - Simplifying group communications Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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