Re: NSR

[Guest guest]

> I am aware that there are concerns about taking Ativan -- but at

the moment

> it's such an enormous relief to be able to sleep and to feel rested

during

> the day (for the first time in years) that I am inclined to remain

in

> denial. I don't think my anxiety about falling asleep involves any

sort of

> actual tremor, and I'm not sure I understand what you mean about

that -- do

> you mean like a muscle twitch? Could you describe it? Does it

happen in

> your hands? I will be very interested to hear what you learn from

the

> Pharmacist Dept of the manufacturer, and from your cardiologist.

And I'll

> spend some time studying up on the differences between chlorazepam

and

> lorazepam, now that you've mentioned it. Why did your internist

make the

> switch? Do you plan to take another anti-anxiety drug once you have

> gradually stopped the Ativan?

Hi, Sandy and Jack, I am more and more convinced that the Ativan as a

possible cause has to be looked into. I will post any info I find.

I did once stay off ativan for 6-7 days, and the tremors did not

clear up, so if this is what's going on, it may be a drawn out

withdrawal process.

My doc switched me to the other med because she said it was in the

same class but only had to be taken twice a day. I have gone back to

the Ativan until my next doc appointment because the other med

(chloro something) made my usually ignorable tinnitus a lot worse.

Plus it seems to have less of a tranquilizing effect.

Sandy, what I have felt with what I call tremors are two types of

things - one is a whole body tremor, like my alarm clock going off

starts my whole body shaking for minutes. I believe Ellen

experienced this type also. The second kind is weirder - some part

of the body shakes, like my chest feels like my heart is racing.

Often with the second type there is no appearance of shaking. There

is a name for this kind of " internal " tremor, but I don't know what

it is. Often, although much less so since I started snarfing down a

vitamin B complex, the tremoring is accompanied by feelings of

unusual warmness and pins and needles crawling over my face.

The tremors are surprisingly enervating. I wake up like a limp

dishrag.

So, like you, I bless the Ativan for letting me sleep thru the night,

but it may be a double edged sword.

Trudy

[Guest guest]

Hi. Trudy, thanks for describing the tremors. Are you saying you are more

and more convinced that Ativan is a possible cause of the tremors? Do your

tremors occur during afib or during NSR or both? I had the whole body

tremor thing the first time I went into a fib -- uncontrollable shaking,

accompanied by the Big P and what I believe Ellen demurely called the Big S.

I have had uncontrollable shaking during panic attacks years ago, before the

afib reared its ugly head. I get unusual warmness and flushing etc but I

think this is hot flashes and is regulated by hormone replacement therapy.

No pins and needles, though, that must feel strange. One thing I do have

trouble with are my legs cramping at night. I can usually walk them out,

but once my calf cramped so badly it hurt for days. On occasion I get a

strange twitch in my upper lip. I have no idea what that is. Hmm, how

about a blues tune here: Lawd, I got troubles in my heart, cramps in my

leg; i wish we had the answer, lawd don' make us beg ...[8 bars piano

riff]...thank you for these friends, Bobby, Ellen, & Jack; they gonna

help me sing these troubles off my back...

Looking forward to any info you post about Ativan. I like sleeping through

the night but don't want to hurt myself. I looked at a couple of other

sleeping medications, but they list palpitations as a side effect; I'm not

interested in any more of those. I really appreciate your input, Trudy, you

seem to have a keen awareness of what's going on with you. Sandy

Trudy wrote:

I am more and more convinced that the Ativan as a

> possible cause has to be looked into. I will post any info I find.

> I did once stay off ativan for 6-7 days, and the tremors did not

> clear up, so if this is what's going on, it may be a drawn out

> withdrawal process.

[Guest guest]

> Hmm, how

>about a blues tune here: Lawd, I got troubles in my heart, cramps in my

>leg; i wish we had the answer, lawd don' make us beg ...[8 bars piano

>riff]...thank you for these friends, Bobby, Ellen, & Jack; they gonna

>help me sing these troubles off my back...

make the tune in E flat and I'll play along on my sax!

good to see humor is still alive and kicking!

--

D

[Guest guest]

> Hi. Trudy, thanks for describing the tremors. Are you saying you

are more

> and more convinced that Ativan is a possible cause of the tremors?

Do your

> tremors occur during afib or during NSR or both

Hi, Sandy, thanks for your info, as it is interesting to note in

terms of finding out what this is. I have no idea basically. I hope

to find out more from my docs. Right now I seem to be in nsr and am

still having the tremors.

[Guest guest]

> I find it very curious, that many of you when experiencing AFIB, do

> not go the the hospital and wait to convert back on your own. My

> experience with AFIB for the past 14 years, have an episode, do to

> the emergency room, get drugged up, admitted and release on 2nd or

> 3rd day. Grant it, I only have episodes about once or twice a year,

> althought since last October, have had 4 episodes and admissions. My

> question is how high is the heart rate for those of you are

> experiencing this on a regular basis. My rate goes into the 200's

> and on a couple occasion has actually reached 300. I know I can't sit

> and wait aroung when this happens to me. It is very uncomfortable.

> I'm wondering if any of you experience these high rates and choose to

> sit it out and wait for it to convert on its own... I've been on

> Tambocor and Atenolol for the past 11 years and it seem to be working

> for me.

Hi , my first few episodes were like this I think I peaked at around

280 bpm - definitely a hospital trip for me too.

If I were to go over 200 for more than 10 minutes or so I'd start to think

it was time for a hospital trip but I can tolerate brief periods of

200-220.

If I'm up and about my rate will be 150- 180 ish but if I'm resting I can

get it around the 120 mark. (its always higher for the first few hours -

rare to get below 150 and then calms down at the end of a 24 hour session).

ly I don't go to hospital because I have a far better chance of going

to sleep in my own bed and sleep is one of the best ways of keeping my rate

down. I find it very hard to sleep when I'm in AF but it's impossible to

sleep at my local hospital. The only thing they would do to me if I went to

hospital is heparinise me - to reduce stroke risk and then sit and wait it

out with me. (I've tried various drugs in the hospital setting but non of

managed to restore sinus rhythm)

I almost went into hospital 3 AFs ago because I was feeling particularly

uncomfortable but in general I can tolerate the high rates. (It's not

pleasant but the hospital setting would not change this so I stay at home).

My old Doc told me if I feel unwell I should go into hospital but he was

unable to tell me what 'unwell' was - I figured he hadn't personally

experienced AF In a sense though, he was spot on, I think I know when my

heart is misbehaving in a way that's bad or unusual and would know when it

was time to make the journey to the hospital. In some ways having AF once

every 18 days might be easier than having AF once every 6 months - I'm no

longer surprised when it happens and I remember what to expect. By far the

worst time was the first 6 months of my AF, my attacks were very bad but I

don't know if this was disease, meds or anxiety related (probably all 3!)

At least now the anxiety is removed from the problem - only another two to

go!

cheers

--

D

[Guest guest]

:

A rate of 200-300+ is very, very uncomfortable...don't you faint when

your rate is that high? I don't think I would be able to shun the

emergency room if meds hadn't brought my rate down from those

levels. Has your doctor done all s/he can to help you achieve rate

control? The heavy-duty anti-arrhythmics aren't necessarily the best

for rate control (their primary mission is to try to control the

rhythm, I think). If I remember correctly, in Seattle keeps her

rate down and bearable with a beta blocker and a calcium channel

blocker. Mine stays down best with Atenolol and Digoxin.

If any oldtimers on the board are wondering why I am so active today,

its because I'm drowning in preparation for a full IRS audit. One of

my worst fears has come true (without any discernable affect on my

AF, thank God), and I can escape the paperwork and take the edge off

my nerves by reading and writing with my AF buddies. What a great

lifeline!

Best wishes,

Lee

> I find it very curious, that many of you when experiencing AFIB, do

> not go the the hospital and wait to convert back on your own. My

> experience with AFIB for the past 14 years, have an episode, do to

> the emergency room, get drugged up, admitted and release on 2nd or

> 3rd day. Grant it, I only have episodes about once or twice a year,

> althought since last October, have had 4 episodes and admissions.

My

> question is how high is the heart rate for those of you are

> experiencing this on a regular basis. My rate goes into the 200's

> and on a couple occasion has actually reached 300. I know I can't

sit

> and wait aroung when this happens to me. It is very

uncomfortable.

> I'm wondering if any of you experience these high rates and choose

to

> sit it out and wait for it to convert on its own... I've been on

> Tambocor and Atenolol for the past 11 years and it seem to be

working

> for me.

>

> The reason I've had this many episodes, since October, can be

> attributed to stomach problem, I have acid reflux. I just was put

on

> my 3rd stomach med, and once again, reacted to it, this last one

even

> gave me palpitations. Just what I need. I dicided to do away with

> stomach meds and try to work with this au natural! I went to the

> healthfood store and spoke with the vitamin person, and he has

> suggested I try apple cider vinegar. This sounds to simple and

> cheap, but hey if it works, I'll be happy. I've also found that

when

> then acids start churning, by taking a tablespoon of flaxseed oil,

> this helps immensely in reducing the acid and belching. Would like

> feedback on this topis as well, from those experiencing stomach

> problems. I've found that the stomach meds are definitely worse

than

> the condition itself, as far as, my body is concerned.

>

> Also, found it interesting, the Atenolol and Tums connection. I've

> experienced the same thing, cannot tolerate it.

>

> Bye for now,

>

> , rainy, rainy, rainy, So. Fla

[Guest guest]

> I'm wondering if any of you experience these high rates and choose

to

> sit it out and wait for it to convert on its own...

Hi, , thank God my rate does not get that high. The toprol

really reduces the rate for me, so far anyway.

> The reason I've had this many episodes, since October, can be

> attributed to stomach problem, I have acid reflux. I just was put

on

> my 3rd stomach med, and once again, reacted to it, this last one

even

> gave me palpitations. ... I've found that the stomach meds are

definitely worse than

> the condition itself, as far as, my body is concerned.

Thanks for the flaxseed oil tip. I also have acid reflux, and had

a bad problem with Aciphex (retching and diarrhea, sorry to be blunt

folks), which caused me to go into heart stuff. I would be

interested to know what other acid reflux meds you had trouble with.

I also have grave doubts about these meds. I have been taking

prescription strength zantac (it's double the over the counter dose)

and am resisting my gastro doc's pushing protonix, which I understand

causes headaches. But I developed a lot of burping a couple of

months ago after being on this med for months, which does not do my

heart any good, of course. So I will try the flaxseed oil.

Actually, after the posting about tums and the rebound effect, I

decided to experiment for a week and stop my calcium supplement. I

also looked up info in the health food store and found that -low-

stomach acid can cause burping, so I am stopping the zantac for the

week also to see what happens. I'm on day one, and it certainly

isn't worse so far.

Since so many of us on this list have gastro problems and they impact

the heart, i would also be interested in knowing how people are

handling these.

[Guest guest]

> At least now the anxiety is removed from the

Hi, , I am interested to know how you manage this :-) Some

primitive portion of my brain still knows I am going to die :-)

Trudy

[Guest guest]

I have found that papaya tablets and charcoal pills help with my stomach. I

only use charcoal tablets when there is a lot of gas bulid up, but papaya on

a regular basis. I understand that apple sauce helps too.

[Guest guest]

,

I have been to the ER in AF only once. It was a very frustrating experience.

Imagine a 26 year old (otherwise healthy) woman going to the ER with chest

pain, shortness of breath and complaining of an arrhythmia ... very

interesting response from ER workers -- initially caring, but overall looking

at me like I am having an anxiety attack or something like that and they ask

me if I am currently being seen by a counselor or taking any anti-anxiety

meds, etc... P - LEASE! They did some bloodwork and a chest x-ray and I (of

course) converted and they sent me home after taking a pain pill.

I always convert on my own -- the biggest problem for me is that I have many,

brief episodes of AF that happen anywhere from 2 minutes to 48 hours -- every

single day. On some days I have 40 episodes that are only a couple minutes

long, but they knock me on my butt! Other times, I have a very long episode

up to 48 hours and just live with it, I guess. This proves challenging since

I am the mother of a 3 year old and a 7 year old. It is surely not fair to

them....

My rate is 240+ frequently -- it has been over 300 as well. It is not

uncommon for me to about pass out 10 times a day -- and that's no

exaggeration. My family has gotten use to me just sitting down on the floor

or ground wherever I am at when I need to -- surely sitting down is better

than falling down.

Most days I really, really struggle with my AF. It seem in my family history

to be the beginning stages of major heart problems for everyone before me.

My dad started out with AF (we think, though he was never diagnosed

officially) and then was diagnosed with idiopathic Cardiomyopathy - needing a

heart transplant at 30. Woah. That is very scary, since I am now the oldest

living relative on that side -- everyone else has died of similar pattern

heart problem progression. I am not a doc. but it sure seems to me there is

a definite pattern here.

I am currently in the process of getting approved for the MAZE, pending

insurance approval -- also very frustrating. Hope that helps.

Angie

26/Everett, WA

(Hey , did you say you were from Seattle?)