Fwd: RE: FW: Usage of LPG for metal cutting -Message is from an unknown sender

[Guest guest]

Mr.Premkumar / BM Pl refer the below mentioned line from Mr.Manishmor, L & T Eutectic Section, It says Flashback arrestor (irrespective of the Gas for which its used) should be mandatorily checked every year and the testing kit is available with them. for further discussion we can contact him. Bye bye Karthick.D Its a mandatory requiremManish Mor wrote: Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:21:00 +0530To: Subject: RE:

FW: Usage of LPG for metalcutting -Message is from an unknown senderDear Mr KarthickWe are having Flash back arrestor testing Kit available in India.As per the saftey norms, all the flash back arrestors are suppose to be tested every year.We are having facility available in india by which we can test and verified flash back arrrestors,already we are having annual rate contract for testing of the flash back arrestor with Reliance Petroleum Jamnagar.For any other clarification please revert back to us at any time.Thanking You,Faithfully YoursFor Larsen & Toubro LimitedManish MorAsst. ManagerWelding Products BusinessHyderabadCell:9390013337karthick d wrote: Date: Mon,

31 Jul 2006 15:19:49 +0100 (BST)Subject: RE: FW: Usage of LPG for metal cutting -Message is from an unknown senderTo: D Prem Kumar , "Mehta,Mr. A (Amish)" CC: indiansafetyprofessionals , morm@... Mr.Premkumar Testing kit for Flashback arrestor is available in the market, off course not in Indian market in australian countries.. For the product details go through this web page, http://www.nichegas.com/product3.htm. I came to about this while searching for flashback arrestor, I don't know about its avaialbility in Indian market and effectiveness. This testing kit gives result only in the

form of "Accepted" or "Rejected". Take care Bye Karthick.D L & T ECC Division Hyderabad. cc: Mr.Manish mor, L & T Eutectic Section : Sir, Do we have any such, Flash back arrestor testing kit in with L & T Eutectic? If so please let us know. D Prem Kumar wrote: Dear Mr. Amish, You have rightly pointed out it (about the Non-availability of Fusible Plug), yes LPG is safe when used in certain conditions but we are more concerned about the Expansion Ratio, Sp. Gravity of LPG, Non-availability of fusible plug, which poses major risk incase of Leakage, Backfire etc. But we can insist the usage of Flashback arrestor for quenching backfire, but the problem with the usage of Falsh back arrestor is that we are not able to rely on it allways, as the workability of flashback arrestor cannot be ascertained in anyway(as of I know, If anybody knows about testing of Flashback arrestors, kindly forward me the procedure of the same). Further more discussion and a firm conclusion

in this matter has to been drawn, in this forum. With RegardsD.Premkumar,Engineer - Safety,Chanderiya Lead Zinc Smelter,Hindustan Zinc Ltd. "Mehta, Mr. A (Amish)" <amishmsupergas>Sent by: indiansafetyprofessionals 07/31/2006 03:48 PM To "panchapakesan krishnamurthy" <k.panch15gmail> cc "Indian Safety professionals" <indiansafetyprofessionals > bcc Subject RE: FW: Usage of LPG for metal cutting - Message is from an unknown sender Generally LPG cylinder is fitted with SC

valves ( SelfClosing valve ). At any given point of time as the cylinder inside pressure is higher than the atmpressure, chance of spreading back fire inside cylinder is NIL. But there is no fusible plug / safety relief valve as such is fitted on LPG cylinder. In case LPG filled cylinder is engulfed in fire, liquid LPG stored inside cylinder will get vaporized and consequently pressure will build up inside LPG cylinder . And lastly at one point of time pressure will increase than cylinder pressure withstanding capacity it will explode. Plsnote that design pressure of LPG cylinder is 16.85kg/cm2 at 65 degree C Hope above will clarify the point. Regards, Amish Usage of LPG for metal cutting - Message is from an unknown sender Dear Mani, Kuldeep, Durairaj, Manikandan, Shridhar,Panchapakesan , Karthick & friends, This debate is indeed at interesting corner. I am basically from LPG background so wud like

to throw some light on the debate and clarify many of the questions raised so far . 1. Can LPG be used for metal cutting ? Yes. 2. Which LPG can be used? Many private LPG suppliers like Super Gas , Shell etc provides LPG cylinders in various sizes for commercial / industrial purpose ( 17kgs / 33kgs ) . In general , one can use any LPG cylinders primarily not meant for domestic purpose egg. One can not use 14.2kg of LPG cylinders being marketed by PSUs. 3. How can we store LPG cylinders or is it allowed? Rules doesn't permit storage of unconnected cylinders more than aggregate

capacity of 100kgs as per under mentioned rules / guideline OISD-162, Clause 3.12:As per the statutory requirements no explosive license is required for multi-cylinder installations. However, consumers having unconnected filled cylinders with more than 100kgs of LPG shall obtain Explosive license under Gas Cylinders Rules 1981 Gas Cylinder Rules, 1981, Chapter VII (Filling & Possession) Rule 52: No license is needed for filling and possession in cases where the quantity of gas stored does not exceed 100kg at any one time. · We can fabricate manifold system and use.

Manifold system does not required any license provided it is meeting IS 6044 part I . Or · One can construct LPG storage godown and take license from explosives dept· Can keep all LPG cylinders connected to the points ( isolated one ) 4. Equipment cutting torch, nozzle, regulators, FBA , hose and valve etc ??· Cutting torch is same irrespective of type of fuel.· Nozzle is required to be change which are standard and available in market · Hoses should comply at least IS 9573 ( for LPG ) · High pressure regulators are available in the market from reputed suppliers like Vanaz, Kosan , United , Nirmal etc. In case required these can be available on tailor made basis too. Also some of LPG suppliers like Super Gas, get this manufactured especially suited for metal cutting ( high pressure ) and supply to it's customers. 5. Is LPG safe compared to Acetylene ?a.

Technical comparison wrt to safety of various fuels acetylene , Propane, Natural gas and proplylene ) have been attached. b. Based on fwg parameters , it can be said that LPG is safer than AcetyleneExplosive limit Pressure under which product stored in cylinder 1. Acetylene 2-80 21kg / cm2 2. LPG

2-10 6-8 kg / cm2 c. 6. Any other operational issues ? o Practically LPG can be used to cut upto 80-100mm plate thickness.o Flame temp - Acetylene produces the highest flame temperature of all the fuel gases. The maximum flame temperature

for acetylene (in oxygen) is approximately 3,160°C compared with a maximum temperature of 2,810°C with propane. o The marginal higher flame speed and the higher calorific value of the primary flame (only inner cone & not total ) (18,890kJ/m3 compared with 10,433 kJ/m 3 for propane) produce a more intense flame at the surface of the metal reducing the width of the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ) and the degree of distortion. 7. Is LPG economically viable against Acetylene ? a. LPG / Propane produces a lower flame temperature than acetylene (the maximum flame temperature in oxygen is 2,828°C compared with 3,160°C for acetylene). It has a greater total heat of combustion than acetylene ( heat is generated mostly in the outer cone ) b. Total heat liberated per unit volm of fuel is higher in LPG than acetylene .c. Detailed calculation is attached in the sheet. Usage of LPG will save approx 25% of than the

cost of using acetylene I hope this will clarify lot of questions raised. Please revert in case of any further query related to metal cutting or wrt LPG Regards, Amish Manager – TechnicalSHV Energey Pvt Ltd SUPER GAS -----Original Message-----From: Sridhar B [mailto: sridharbdalmiacement] Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:12 AM To: panchapakesan krishnamurthy; KV SubbarayuduCc:

S.Sel...[Message clipped] -- K.PANCHAPAKESANDY. MANAGER (SAFETY)WHEELS INDIA LTDPADICHENNAI - 600 050MOB: 98409 94397 Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers

Here’s a new way to find what you're looking for - Yahoo! Answers