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Hi . Thank you for looking at my website. I hope I am responding correctly and you see this! I would love to hear about others' experiences with an AS spouse. I guess I am sort of a caregiver. I mean, he has a good job, but doesn't do well socially.I'm not sure if I do see myself growing old with him, but how do you leave someone who has nobody but you?Any attempt of mine to discuss AS, or that he has an issue is met with "Normalcy sucks." He does not believe in psychiatry, psychology, or anything like that.I look forward to reading more about this topic here!Karoline-Subject:

Hello!To: "aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 11:44 PMHi Karoline:Wow! Welcome to ASPIRES. Do you see yourself growing old with this person? Where do you see yourself or want to be six months from now? I maybe wrong, but it sounds like you are more in the role of a care giver than a partner/spouse?How can we help you? I like your website!!Best.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Hi. I am a new member. So glad to have found this community. Have been married 9+years to a man I'm pretty sure has Asperger's.My family and I are the only people he has, so will feel guilty leaving him. I actually married him because I felt sorry that he had no friends.Some background - I am a young 55, he is an old 61. Not my

first marriage. We have never had sex (he just lies there not moving if I try and initiate anything so I gave up); he has no humor; no empathy; is very rigid and judgmental of others; cannot reach out to others (except to me); gets very upset if his routing is disrupted; and is critical of interests he doesn't care about. He only wants to talk about baseball, politics, and music. He has an incredible amount of data in his head as far as dates and baseball statistics. In addition, he only takes one shower a week and it takes him 4 hours. Don't ask how long he takes in the bathroom to defecate-- 2-12 hours!!!I write fiction and poetry (karolinebarrett.com) just to escape from my marriage. At this point, I don't know how to have a fulfilling life! I'm a Christian, but prayer hasn't helped.------------------------------------ "We each have our own way of living in the

world, together we are like a symphony.Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.We all contribute to the song of life." ...Sondra We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference. ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author. Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission. When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at: http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER http://www.aspires-relationships.com

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Hi Karoline.. opened up my big typewriting fingers to type and respond to your

initial post without realizing you had mentioned response below.. one of those

" duh moment " for me.

" but how do you leave someone who has nobody but you? "

Oh that's easy. Take me for example. When I moved to Chattanooga, TN in summer

2007, I accepted a new job and it was the highest paying job I ever had to date.

I was in the same town/house as my then-girlfriend finally. Putting a lot of

money away in a mutual, saving up for some things I wanted to do. Thought life

was sweet and going very smoothly.

I was that " nobody. " Less than three months AFTER I had moved to Chattanooga, I

was fired from that job. My then-girlfriend decided to end her relationship

with me. With the exception of a couple of people I met while starting to

attend services, I knew NO ONE. Other than those few people, I had absolutely

no support system whatsoever.

I didn't know anyone down here. I had two options. First, I could go back

north to central Indiana by where my mom, brother, and sister-in-law were. At

least I would have a small support system. Second, I could stay here, realizing

I had no support system except for a couple of people from church and nothing

else. I chose to go with the second option, and thus, began the " dark time " in

my life.

I went through a time of about 18 months from 2007-2009, when I had doubts,

second guesses about my decision, and more. Along the way, I learned to reach

out to people. I began to attend support group meetings. I saw that people

aren't necessary bad or were out to manipulate me (unless there was a " hidden

agenda " I did not know about or such).

As , Helen, Ron, and so many others in here will attest, I have come a

long, long way since I joined aspires in 2007. Where I only knew a few people at

most in 2007, I have an immense support system of many, many people now. I have

an extended family of sorts who will look out after me if something happens.

Yes, it was a tough time in my life. However, all of what I have now would not

be made possible unless my then-girlfriend had chosen to end her relationship

with me.

Amazing eh?

>

>

> Subject: Hello!

> To: " aspires-relationships "

<aspires-relationships >

> Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 11:44 PM

>

> Hi Karoline:

>

> Wow!  Welcome to ASPIRES.  Do you see yourself growing old with this person? 

Where do you see yourself or want to be six months from now?  I maybe wrong, but

it sounds like you are more in the role of a care giver than a partner/spouse?

>

> How can we help you?  I like your website!!

>

> Best.

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>

> Hi. I am a new member. So glad to have found this community. Have been married

9+years to a man I'm pretty sure has Asperger's.

> My family and I are the only people he has, so will feel guilty leaving him. I

actually married him because I felt sorry that he had no friends.

> Some background - I am a young 55, he is an old 61. Not my first marriage. We

have never had sex (he just lies there not moving if I try and initiate anything

so I gave up); he has no humor; no empathy; is very rigid and judgmental of

others; cannot reach out to others (except to me); gets very upset if his

routing is disrupted; and is critical of interests he doesn't care about. He

only wants to talk about baseball, politics, and music. He has an incredible

amount of data in his head as far as dates and baseball statistics. In addition,

he only takes one shower a week and it takes him 4 hours. Don't ask how long he

takes in the bathroom to defecate-- 2-12 hours!!!

> I write fiction and poetry (karolinebarrett.com) just to escape from my

marriage. At this point, I don't know how to have a fulfilling life! I'm a

Christian, but prayer hasn't helped.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

>               " We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are

like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life. "

>                        ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

>        Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

>             When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

>            http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

>                 ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

>                   http://www.aspires-relationships.com

>

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Hi . Thanks for replying. Yes, that is an amazing story. I give you lots of credit. But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of his days listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to 60s music. How can I do that to him? By the way, I used to live in Indianapolis.KarolineSubject: Re: Hello!To: aspires-relationships Date: Wednesday, July 4, 2012, 6:43 PM

Hi Karoline.. opened up my big typewriting fingers to type and respond to your initial post without realizing you had mentioned response below.. one of those "duh moment" for me.

"but how do you leave someone who has nobody but you?"

Oh that's easy. Take me for example. When I moved to Chattanooga, TN in summer 2007, I accepted a new job and it was the highest paying job I ever had to date. I was in the same town/house as my then-girlfriend finally. Putting a lot of money away in a mutual, saving up for some things I wanted to do. Thought life was sweet and going very smoothly.

I was that "nobody." Less than three months AFTER I had moved to Chattanooga, I was fired from that job. My then-girlfriend decided to end her relationship with me. With the exception of a couple of people I met while starting to attend services, I knew NO ONE. Other than those few people, I had absolutely no support system whatsoever.

I didn't know anyone down here. I had two options. First, I could go back north to central Indiana by where my mom, brother, and sister-in-law were. At least I would have a small support system. Second, I could stay here, realizing I had no support system except for a couple of people from church and nothing else. I chose to go with the second option, and thus, began the "dark time" in my life.

I went through a time of about 18 months from 2007-2009, when I had doubts, second guesses about my decision, and more. Along the way, I learned to reach out to people. I began to attend support group meetings. I saw that people aren't necessary bad or were out to manipulate me (unless there was a "hidden agenda" I did not know about or such).

As , Helen, Ron, and so many others in here will attest, I have come a long, long way since I joined aspires in 2007. Where I only knew a few people at most in 2007, I have an immense support system of many, many people now. I have an extended family of sorts who will look out after me if something happens.

Yes, it was a tough time in my life. However, all of what I have now would not be made possible unless my then-girlfriend had chosen to end her relationship with me.

Amazing eh?

>

>

> Subject: Hello!

> To: "aspires-relationships " <aspires-relationships >

> Date: Tuesday, July 3, 2012, 11:44 PM

>

> Hi Karoline:

>

> Wow! Welcome to ASPIRES. Do you see yourself growing old with this person? Where do you see yourself or want to be six months from now? I maybe wrong, but it sounds like you are more in the role of a care giver than a partner/spouse?

>

> How can we help you? I like your website!!

>

> Best.

>

>

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>

>

> Hi. I am a new member. So glad to have found this community. Have been married 9+years to a man I'm pretty sure has Asperger's.

> My family and I are the only people he has, so will feel guilty leaving him. I actually married him because I felt sorry that he had no friends.

> Some background - I am a young 55, he is an old 61. Not my first marriage. We have never had sex (he just lies there not moving if I try and initiate anything so I gave up); he has no humor; no empathy; is very rigid and judgmental of others; cannot reach out to others (except to me); gets very upset if his routing is disrupted; and is critical of interests he doesn't care about. He only wants to talk about baseball, politics, and music. He has an incredible amount of data in his head as far as dates and baseball statistics. In addition, he only takes one shower a week and it takes him 4 hours. Don't ask how long he takes in the bathroom to defecate-- 2-12 hours!!!

> I write fiction and poetry (karolinebarrett.com) just to escape from my marriage. At this point, I don't know how to have a fulfilling life! I'm a Christian, but prayer hasn't helped.

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> "We each have our own way of living in the world, together we are like a symphony.

> Some are the melody, some are the rhythm, some are the harmony

> It all blends together, we are like a symphony, and each part is crucial.

> We all contribute to the song of life."

> ...Sondra

>

> We might not always agree; but TOGETHER we will make a difference.

>

> ASPIRES is a closed, confidential, moderated list.

> Responsibility for posts to ASPIRES lies entirely with the original author.

> Do NOT post mail off-list without the author's permission.

> When in doubt, please refer to our list rules at:

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com/info_rules.htm

> ASPIRES ~ Climbing the mountain TOGETHER

> http://www.aspires-relationships.com

>

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PS Plus, he managed to live for 52 years without you, didn't he??? Don't set

yourself up for failure imaging you're his entire world. He got by before,

he'll get by again. And there is really nothing inherently wrong with spending

your days listening to baseball and music. Don't know who Hannity is so

can't comment : ).

Re: Re: Hello!

But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of his days

listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to 60s music.  How can

I do that to him?

Karoline, your husband (in name only) is not a child, and you are not his

mother.  How he chooses to live the rest of his days is up to him alone.  It's

not your responsibility to provide a life for him.

Best,

~CJ

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I third what CJ says. You are both adults. He can make his own choices, like

you can yours. You are not his mother. The world is not fair, as I found out

as an Aspie. When my ex-girlfriend chose to leave me, she wasn't my mom. She

and I were both adults. She chose what she needed to do, and this resulted in

allowing me to become the person I am today.

Likewise, you should choose what you want or need to do. No one can tell you

what to do - that's your choice. When I chose to leave my ex-wife, it was very

scary for me to do. The thoughts went racing through my mind. I was at the

altar before 225 people at my wedding and vowed and promised myself I would

never get divorced. Then I had feelings of guilt for thinking what I was about

to do to the 225 people.

No one says when they get married, " Oh, I think I'll pack it up and mail in my

effort to keep the marriage going. " No, you do the very best you can. However,

there comes a time when you realize it's time. It's like the post wrote

about The Gambler.. gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them. I held for

as long as I can, and chose to fold when the time came.

I did what I needed to do in my life to no longer be a shelf of myself. If I

guessed what you're feeling and going through at this this time in your life

right now, I'd be more than willing to bet the " kitchen sink " that you are

feeling a shell of you are reading this. If that's true...then yes I know, it's

hard to leave something that you want to create with someone - because I went

through it myself.

>

>

> > But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of

> > his days listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to

> > 60s music. How can I do that to him?

> >

>

>

> Karoline, your husband (in name only) is not a child, and you are not

> his mother. How he chooses to live the rest of his days is up to him

> alone. It's not your responsibility to provide a life for him.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

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Another reason why unhappy people sometimes choose to stay in unhappy

marriages is fear of the unknown. The idea of striking out by

themselves into a big scary world can be far more uncomfortable than

staying in the familiar dissatisfaction of the marriage itself.

For whatever reason, some people are not able to admit this to

themselves. So, they rationalize their choice to remain in the marriage

by claiming to do so on behalf of their spouse's welfare, when it's

often their own welfare that is paramount.

Best,

~CJ

> I third what CJ says. You are both adults. He can make his own choices,

like you can yours. You are not his mother. The world is not fair, as I found

out as an Aspie. When my ex-girlfriend chose to leave me, she wasn't my mom.

She and I were both adults. She chose what she needed to do, and this resulted

in allowing me to become the person I am today.

>

> Likewise, you should choose what you want or need to do. No one can tell you

what to do - that's your choice. When I chose to leave my ex-wife, it was very

scary for me to do. The thoughts went racing through my mind. I was at the

altar before 225 people at my wedding and vowed and promised myself I would

never get divorced. Then I had feelings of guilt for thinking what I was about

to do to the 225 people.

>

> No one says when they get married, " Oh, I think I'll pack it up and mail in my

effort to keep the marriage going. " No, you do the very best you can. However,

there comes a time when you realize it's time. It's like the post wrote

about The Gambler.. gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them. I held for

as long as I can, and chose to fold when the time came.

>

> I did what I needed to do in my life to no longer be a shelf of myself. If I

guessed what you're feeling and going through at this this time in your life

right now, I'd be more than willing to bet the " kitchen sink " that you are

feeling a shell of you are reading this. If that's true...then yes I know, it's

hard to leave something that you want to create with someone - because I went

through it myself.

>

>

>

>

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Hi CJ -- not in my case. Have been married before. And left! So it really isn't me I am concerned with.Karoline-

> I third what CJ says. You are both adults. He can make his own choices, like you can yours. You are not his mother. The world is not fair, as I found out as an Aspie. When my ex-girlfriend chose to leave me, she wasn't my mom. She and I were both adults. She chose what she needed to do, and this resulted in allowing me to become the person I am today.

>

> Likewise, you should choose what you want or need to do. No one can tell you what to do - that's your choice. When I chose to leave my ex-wife, it was very scary for me to do. The thoughts went racing through my mind. I was at the altar before 225 people at my wedding and vowed and promised myself I would never get divorced. Then I had feelings of guilt for thinking what I was about to do to the 225 people.

>

> No one says when they get married, "Oh, I think I'll pack it up and mail in my effort to keep the marriage going." No, you do the very best you can. However, there comes a time when you realize it's time. It's like the post wrote about The Gambler.. gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them. I held for as long as I can, and chose to fold when the time came.

>

> I did what I needed to do in my life to no longer be a shelf of myself. If I guessed what you're feeling and going through at this this time in your life right now, I'd be more than willing to bet the "kitchen sink" that you are feeling a shell of you are reading this. If that's true...then yes I know, it's hard to leave something that you want to create with someone - because I went through it myself.

>

>

>

>

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In theory all of you a are right, but it's just not that easy to do. We would not be friends, he is the type to not forgive slights. And leaving him would be considered to be a big slight by him. I would really like him to realize we, or shall I say, he has a problem, but he won't do that.Yes he did manage without me, but he was alone. He's only had 2 relationships other than me and that was in his twenties and he ended them both after a few months.

But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of his days listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to 60s music. How can I do that to him?

Karoline, your husband (in name only) is not a child, and you are not his mother. How he chooses to live the rest of his days is up to him alone. It's not your responsibility to provide a life for him.

Best,

~CJ

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On 7/4/2012 8:06 PM, Karoline Barrett

wrote:

In theory all of you

a are right, but it's just not that easy to do.  We would

not be friends, he is the type to not forgive slights. And

leaving him would be considered to be a big slight by him.

Okay, so you lose his friendship because he would hold a grudge. 

Would that really be the end of the world, to lose that sort of

'friendship'?

Personally, I can't imagine wanting to preserve a friendship so

badly that I would sacrifice my own happiness to remain shackled to

an unsatisfying marriage for the rest of my days.

I would really like

him to realize we, or shall I say, he has a problem, but

he won't do that. Yes he did manage without me, but he was

alone. He's only had 2 relationships other than me and

that was in his twenties and he ended them both after a

few months.

You cannot fix other people or make them realize things, especially

if they are not ready to understand.  That's 'fixer' mentality, and

is why I suggest you take a look at the Melody Beattie link I shared

earlier with the group.

Best,

~CJ

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Hi CJ,

Agreed!!! And I know your response wasn't directed at the new member, but

stating a truism. In the same manner, this isn't directed at anyone here, but

based on what I've seen. What is really sad is when folks say, " but I made a

vow! " and yet it is quite apparent in what they say that the marriage has

degenerated to a point where it's quite impossible to respect their spouse any

more. When mutual respect is gone, love will soon go down the drain, too.

Learning about Asperger Syndrome as it impacts the marriage is only helpful when

*both* partners are willing to acknowledge it is a factor, and *both* are

willing to make the necessary changes to bridge the differences of mis-matched

needs.

- Helen

>

>

> Another reason why unhappy people sometimes choose to stay in unhappy

> marriages is fear of the unknown. The idea of striking out by

> themselves into a big scary world can be far more uncomfortable than

> staying in the familiar dissatisfaction of the marriage itself.

>

> For whatever reason, some people are not able to admit this to

> themselves. So, they rationalize their choice to remain in the marriage

> by claiming to do so on behalf of their spouse's welfare, when it's

> often their own welfare that is paramount.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

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Hi Karoline,

You might want to talk to a therapist yourself about all this, and understand

what is motivating you to stay. It might help you to leave without feeling it

is so " cold " . You sound like you want to be his therapist, savior or analyst

and it sounds like he doesn't want any of those things. Seriously, not trying

to be mean here, but you still haven't provided a single good reason to stay or

to that you have an understanding of your own role in wanting to stay, to

understand his own condition so as to " fix " him, when he is content not to be

fixed. Maybe your first marriage was abusive and therefore easy to leave or

maybe your first husband didn't need fixing so didn't provide you with a reason

to stay... I would seriously take up CJ's link to Beattie. You can be a

fixer in one relationship and not have the means to do that in another so the

fact that you ended your first marriage doesn't mean a whole lot.

I'm sure you didn't come on the list for advice because you wanted to hear these

things to explore in yourself... but having gotten the advice, the question is,

will you poo poo it or do something with it? You can't fix your husband... you

can only fix yourself. I'm sure you are an extremely nice person and caring and

giving and it isn't a flaw to need to adjust yourself to lead to greater

happiness in relationships with others. And if it is that you don't see

yourself being able to marry again due to age, etc. and are happier staying with

the devil you know, well that is personal preference, too and no one has any

right to say you shouldn't, but you have to expect coming on a list where you

tell people your relationship has no love or sex essentially is going to end up

with this kind of advice.

And as far as not being " easy " to walk away... it won't be. As Gov Chris

christie recently said about his difficulty with weight loss... " If it was easy,

I would have done it already. " Divorce is far more difficult than marriage in

many respects. If you feel you want to pursue it you could always just legally

separate from him, and leave it at that for a while, till it gets easier. I've

known people who have done that because it feels easier because they say they

are still technically " married " even though that is only from the perspective of

whether they can marry again... the law regards them as single in all other

ways.

Re: Hello!

To: aspires-relationships

Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012, 12:49 AM

 

I third what CJ says. You are both adults. He can make his own choices, like you

can yours. You are not his mother. The world is not fair, as I found out as an

Aspie. When my ex-girlfriend chose to leave me, she wasn't my mom. She and I

were both adults. She chose what she needed to do, and this resulted in allowing

me to become the person I am today.

Likewise, you should choose what you want or need to do. No one can tell you

what to do - that's your choice. When I chose to leave my ex-wife, it was very

scary for me to do. The thoughts went racing through my mind. I was at the altar

before 225 people at my wedding and vowed and promised myself I would never get

divorced. Then I had feelings of guilt for thinking what I was about to do to

the 225 people.

No one says when they get married, " Oh, I think I'll pack it up and mail in my

effort to keep the marriage going. " No, you do the very best you can. However,

there comes a time when you realize it's time. It's like the post wrote

about The Gambler.. gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them. I held for

as long as I can, and chose to fold when the time came.

I did what I needed to do in my life to no longer be a shelf of myself. If I

guessed what you're feeling and going through at this this time in your life

right now, I'd be more than willing to bet the " kitchen sink " that you are

feeling a shell of you are reading this. If that's true...then yes I know, it's

hard to leave something that you want to create with someone - because I went

through it myself.

>

>

> > But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of

> > his days listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to

> > 60s music. How can I do that to him?

> >

>

>

> Karoline, your husband (in name only) is not a child, and you are not

> his mother. How he chooses to live the rest of his days is up to him

> alone. It's not your responsibility to provide a life for him.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

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Hi Karoline,

You might want to talk to a therapist yourself about all this, and understand

what is motivating you to stay. It might help you to leave without feeling it

is so " cold " . You sound like you want to be his therapist, savior or analyst

and it sounds like he doesn't want any of those things. Seriously, not trying

to be mean here, but you still haven't provided a single good reason to stay or

to that you have an understanding of your own role in wanting to stay, to

understand his own condition so as to " fix " him, when he is content not to be

fixed. Maybe your first marriage was abusive and therefore easy to leave or

maybe your first husband didn't need fixing so didn't provide you with a reason

to stay... I would seriously take up CJ's link to Beattie. You can be a

fixer in one relationship and not have the means to do that in another so the

fact that you ended your first marriage doesn't mean a whole lot.

I'm sure you didn't come on the list for advice because you wanted to hear these

things to explore in yourself... but having gotten the advice, the question is,

will you poo poo it or do something with it? You can't fix your husband... you

can only fix yourself. I'm sure you are an extremely nice person and caring and

giving and it isn't a flaw to need to adjust yourself to lead to greater

happiness in relationships with others. And if it is that you don't see

yourself being able to marry again due to age, etc. and are happier staying with

the devil you know, well that is personal preference, too and no one has any

right to say you shouldn't, but you have to expect coming on a list where you

tell people your relationship has no love or sex essentially is going to end up

with this kind of advice.

And as far as not being " easy " to walk away... it won't be. As Gov Chris

christie recently said about his difficulty with weight loss... " If it was easy,

I would have done it already. " Divorce is far more difficult than marriage in

many respects. If you feel you want to pursue it you could always just legally

separate from him, and leave it at that for a while, till it gets easier. I've

known people who have done that because it feels easier because they say they

are still technically " married " even though that is only from the perspective of

whether they can marry again... the law regards them as single in all other

ways.

Re: Hello!

To: aspires-relationships

Date: Thursday, July 5, 2012, 12:49 AM

 

I third what CJ says. You are both adults. He can make his own choices, like you

can yours. You are not his mother. The world is not fair, as I found out as an

Aspie. When my ex-girlfriend chose to leave me, she wasn't my mom. She and I

were both adults. She chose what she needed to do, and this resulted in allowing

me to become the person I am today.

Likewise, you should choose what you want or need to do. No one can tell you

what to do - that's your choice. When I chose to leave my ex-wife, it was very

scary for me to do. The thoughts went racing through my mind. I was at the altar

before 225 people at my wedding and vowed and promised myself I would never get

divorced. Then I had feelings of guilt for thinking what I was about to do to

the 225 people.

No one says when they get married, " Oh, I think I'll pack it up and mail in my

effort to keep the marriage going. " No, you do the very best you can. However,

there comes a time when you realize it's time. It's like the post wrote

about The Gambler.. gotta know when to hold them, when to fold them. I held for

as long as I can, and chose to fold when the time came.

I did what I needed to do in my life to no longer be a shelf of myself. If I

guessed what you're feeling and going through at this this time in your life

right now, I'd be more than willing to bet the " kitchen sink " that you are

feeling a shell of you are reading this. If that's true...then yes I know, it's

hard to leave something that you want to create with someone - because I went

through it myself.

>

>

> > But my husband is not sociable. If I leave he will live the rest of

> > his days listening to Yankees games, Hannity, and listening to

> > 60s music. How can I do that to him?

> >

>

>

> Karoline, your husband (in name only) is not a child, and you are not

> his mother. How he chooses to live the rest of his days is up to him

> alone. It's not your responsibility to provide a life for him.

>

> Best,

> ~CJ

>

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> I thought we were on the road to healing the marriage when I found out he'd

been having gay/BDSM affairs non-stop for at least 6 years, probably 10.

Liz, if he had that many partners, especially in 'alt' communities where

having multiple (and often anonymous) partners is commonplace, you are

so lucky that he didn't pass any STDs on to you.

After my own experience with infidelity, I will never again enter into a

fluid-bonded relationship with a man. Even if I marry again, it's

condoms all the way, all the time, no exceptions. Wrap that rascal!

Wear one, or get none.

However, condoms won't help with HPV or herpes -- for that I would need

to wear a rubber suit (like the fetish crowd) to prevent skin-on-skin

contact, as that is how these viruses are often passed on.

Seriously though, If I consider every person to be a potential

biohazard, I can make the necessary arrangements to protect my health,

for the most part.

I guess I've learned that I cannot rely on a so-called committed partner

to be faithful. And it's not like you can see infidelity coming in time

to protect yourself -- some people are very adept at compartmentalizing

their lives. The infidelity is bad enough, but I'm not about to place

myself at risk for an STD, especially one that could subject me to

cervical cancer or worse.

Truth be told, I would much prefer to hire a full-time private

investigator to monitor a partner's internet usage and

comings-and-goings, but that's no way to live. Relationships are

supposed to be built on a foundation of trust, after all. I guess at

this point in my life, I've become a fan of the old Russian proverb,

" doveryai, no proveryai " (trust, but verify).

> all his rage was directed against me. In his mind, he was blameless, I had

caused him to have affairs, I needed to be punished.

This was a component of my husband's contempt for me as well. To hear

him tell it, I destroyed his ability to experience any sexual pleasure,

with anyone. Even though he had serious self-esteem issues with respect

to sexuality long before we ever met.

> If so, you'll end up being more of a " caretaker with benefits " than a life

partner. And that's where Cassandra Syndrome comes in.

The way I read Karoline's post, I don't think their marriage included a

sexual relationship. Like not ever. But maybe you are referring to a

different type of " benefits " , Liz. ;)

Best,

~CJ

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> I thought we were on the road to healing the marriage when I found out he'd

been having gay/BDSM affairs non-stop for at least 6 years, probably 10.

Liz, if he had that many partners, especially in 'alt' communities where

having multiple (and often anonymous) partners is commonplace, you are

so lucky that he didn't pass any STDs on to you.

After my own experience with infidelity, I will never again enter into a

fluid-bonded relationship with a man. Even if I marry again, it's

condoms all the way, all the time, no exceptions. Wrap that rascal!

Wear one, or get none.

However, condoms won't help with HPV or herpes -- for that I would need

to wear a rubber suit (like the fetish crowd) to prevent skin-on-skin

contact, as that is how these viruses are often passed on.

Seriously though, If I consider every person to be a potential

biohazard, I can make the necessary arrangements to protect my health,

for the most part.

I guess I've learned that I cannot rely on a so-called committed partner

to be faithful. And it's not like you can see infidelity coming in time

to protect yourself -- some people are very adept at compartmentalizing

their lives. The infidelity is bad enough, but I'm not about to place

myself at risk for an STD, especially one that could subject me to

cervical cancer or worse.

Truth be told, I would much prefer to hire a full-time private

investigator to monitor a partner's internet usage and

comings-and-goings, but that's no way to live. Relationships are

supposed to be built on a foundation of trust, after all. I guess at

this point in my life, I've become a fan of the old Russian proverb,

" doveryai, no proveryai " (trust, but verify).

> all his rage was directed against me. In his mind, he was blameless, I had

caused him to have affairs, I needed to be punished.

This was a component of my husband's contempt for me as well. To hear

him tell it, I destroyed his ability to experience any sexual pleasure,

with anyone. Even though he had serious self-esteem issues with respect

to sexuality long before we ever met.

> If so, you'll end up being more of a " caretaker with benefits " than a life

partner. And that's where Cassandra Syndrome comes in.

The way I read Karoline's post, I don't think their marriage included a

sexual relationship. Like not ever. But maybe you are referring to a

different type of " benefits " , Liz. ;)

Best,

~CJ

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Hi CJ, Liz, and others,

This was an interesting discussion, one that appears in the group from time to

time. A member has a spouse with profound difficulties and finds out that some

of the spouses difficulties are consistent with what is reported to be " common "

with AS. The member hopes that knowledge of AS may save the marriage. While the

member's partner may indeed have AS, alas, it ain't that simple.

Even if the partner acknowledges they have AS (and in this case, he would not)

what they are dealing with is life habits, and also a long term unhealthy

dynamic in the marriage.

Outsiders looking in wonder how on earth the aggrieved spouse could have

tolerated these behaviors all that time, and we suggest that she (usually the

" non spectrum " spouse is a she) should seek counseling because we know her self

esteem must be battered after years of tolerating that kind of treatment. We are

rebuffed, and told that she does not need fixing, he does. Alas, she has adopted

the concrete thinking and hypervigilant behaviors of her partner.

But it's true, we need fixing, more than ever! When we examine our own responses

with newly opened eyes we begin to realize that something in our own background

permitted this to happen. PTSD, especially childhood PTSD, is common, as is

growing up with a *dysfunctional* AS family member. The distinction between

functional and dysfunctional is very important. So those dysfunctional behaviors

became normalized for us at an early age, and we were accustomed to negating the

self and accommodating to similar behaviors from other people. And finally we

may discover, surprise, surprise, we are a little spectrummy ourselves! So we,

too may be a little bit lacking in the overall picture or at least were, in the

past, which allowed not only a dysfunctional spouse, but many other

dysfunctional folks, to take advantage of our too-accomodating natures.

The spouse of the member in question sounded like he had medical issues as well,

but due to his very insular lifestyle and limited interests, had no awareness

that it wasn't normal to take four hours to defaecate, or have no libido

whatsoever. He would not necessarily have to have AS to have these problems,

LOL, those problems become more common as we age, but it is likely to be due to

his AS and limited theory of mind that he could not/would not address them. That

is the thing that folks need to understand .. AS in and of itself does not

*cause* these behaviors, but it is the inability to look further afield, talk to

others, ask for advice, ask for help, that is a hallmark of *dysfunctional* AS

... and again, the distinction between functional and dysfunctional is important.

- Helen

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Your analysis is spot on as always, Helen, thanks.

Re: Hello!

 

Hi CJ, Liz, and others,

This was an interesting discussion, one that appears in the group from time to

time. A member has a spouse with profound difficulties and finds out that some

of the spouses difficulties are consistent with what is reported to be " common "

with AS. The member hopes that knowledge of AS may save the marriage. While the

member's partner may indeed have AS, alas, it ain't that simple.

Even if the partner acknowledges they have AS (and in this case, he would not)

what they are dealing with is life habits, and also a long term unhealthy

dynamic in the marriage.

Outsiders looking in wonder how on earth the aggrieved spouse could have

tolerated these behaviors all that time, and we suggest that she (usually the

" non spectrum " spouse is a she) should seek counseling because we know her self

esteem must be battered after years of tolerating that kind of treatment. We are

rebuffed, and told that she does not need fixing, he does. Alas, she has adopted

the concrete thinking and hypervigilant behaviors of her partner.

But it's true, we need fixing, more than ever! When we examine our own responses

with newly opened eyes we begin to realize that something in our own background

permitted this to happen. PTSD, especially childhood PTSD, is common, as is

growing up with a *dysfunctional* AS family member. The distinction between

functional and dysfunctional is very important. So those dysfunctional behaviors

became normalized for us at an early age, and we were accustomed to negating the

self and accommodating to similar behaviors from other people. And finally we

may discover, surprise, surprise, we are a little spectrummy ourselves! So we,

too may be a little bit lacking in the overall picture or at least were, in the

past, which allowed not only a dysfunctional spouse, but many other

dysfunctional folks, to take advantage of our too-accomodating natures.

The spouse of the member in question sounded like he had medical issues as well,

but due to his very insular lifestyle and limited interests, had no awareness

that it wasn't normal to take four hours to defaecate, or have no libido

whatsoever. He would not necessarily have to have AS to have these problems,

LOL, those problems become more common as we age, but it is likely to be due to

his AS and limited theory of mind that he could not/would not address them. That

is the thing that folks need to understand .. AS in and of itself does not

*cause* these behaviors, but it is the inability to look further afield, talk to

others, ask for advice, ask for help, that is a hallmark of *dysfunctional* AS

... and again, the distinction between functional and dysfunctional is important.

- Helen

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Your analysis is spot on as always, Helen, thanks.

Re: Hello!

 

Hi CJ, Liz, and others,

This was an interesting discussion, one that appears in the group from time to

time. A member has a spouse with profound difficulties and finds out that some

of the spouses difficulties are consistent with what is reported to be " common "

with AS. The member hopes that knowledge of AS may save the marriage. While the

member's partner may indeed have AS, alas, it ain't that simple.

Even if the partner acknowledges they have AS (and in this case, he would not)

what they are dealing with is life habits, and also a long term unhealthy

dynamic in the marriage.

Outsiders looking in wonder how on earth the aggrieved spouse could have

tolerated these behaviors all that time, and we suggest that she (usually the

" non spectrum " spouse is a she) should seek counseling because we know her self

esteem must be battered after years of tolerating that kind of treatment. We are

rebuffed, and told that she does not need fixing, he does. Alas, she has adopted

the concrete thinking and hypervigilant behaviors of her partner.

But it's true, we need fixing, more than ever! When we examine our own responses

with newly opened eyes we begin to realize that something in our own background

permitted this to happen. PTSD, especially childhood PTSD, is common, as is

growing up with a *dysfunctional* AS family member. The distinction between

functional and dysfunctional is very important. So those dysfunctional behaviors

became normalized for us at an early age, and we were accustomed to negating the

self and accommodating to similar behaviors from other people. And finally we

may discover, surprise, surprise, we are a little spectrummy ourselves! So we,

too may be a little bit lacking in the overall picture or at least were, in the

past, which allowed not only a dysfunctional spouse, but many other

dysfunctional folks, to take advantage of our too-accomodating natures.

The spouse of the member in question sounded like he had medical issues as well,

but due to his very insular lifestyle and limited interests, had no awareness

that it wasn't normal to take four hours to defaecate, or have no libido

whatsoever. He would not necessarily have to have AS to have these problems,

LOL, those problems become more common as we age, but it is likely to be due to

his AS and limited theory of mind that he could not/would not address them. That

is the thing that folks need to understand .. AS in and of itself does not

*cause* these behaviors, but it is the inability to look further afield, talk to

others, ask for advice, ask for help, that is a hallmark of *dysfunctional* AS

... and again, the distinction between functional and dysfunctional is important.

- Helen

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