Re: beginner diet questions

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-07-21 16:31:37 EDT, you write:

<<

I'd like to hear comments on what I'm eating and the results so far. It

is a big change from how I ate two months ago, but I'm guessing that

there will be more big changes in the future as things progress.

Thanks for your support,

Anne

>>

Well, it's a good start, Anne...but there are a few more things you can do.

One of them is, don't skip meals until you're hungry. That just causes

problems. Try to eat at regular times. If you've been lurking around this

list you know we advise to stay away from the whites -- bread, potatos, rice,

etc. These are problem foods for a lot of diabetics and can really cause BG

spikes. When you think about how many of our foods are carbs it's a little

scary. But there's a LOT of other things you can substitute for it. For one

thing, instead of pasta, try spaghetti squash. Cheeses are good but watch

the portions. I'm sure others will have other suggestions, this is just off

the top of my head. Vicki

[Guest guest]

> I know you're right and I'm working on it. BTW, 180 was an oddball high

> reading for me... more typical numbers are 135-150.

Good girl!!! :-)

Barb

--------

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Premium Oldenburg sport horses

and fancy sport ponies for sale.

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

[Guest guest]

> p.s. I just ate chicken, broccoli and snow peas for dinner with a little

> bit of rice. And I did it while watching hubby eat sesame noodles and

> pan-fried dumplings.

****Good for you!! When we think that it's our life at stake, all those

noodles and things don't seem so important. My goal is an hbA1c of 5, equal

to bg of 100, and pp of 140 absolutely max, and hopefully rare. I'm

certainly not perfect either, but I try to keep my carbs under 100, and that

(for me) has helped a lot. Others use the ADA exchange plan with success.

When I started the dietician (Type I) got me keeping a food diary (writing

down everything) with bg's and carb counts, and it made me much more aware

of what my food choices (and why) had been in the past. You might try it -

it might help sort out your confusion with all the deluge of information.

And, of course, the more you can test (and keep your bg's on your food diary

too), the more you'll find out what foods do what to your bg's. I worry

about your low morning readings, and I think it's because you're eating so

many carbs right before bedtime (remember: spike, then crash). You might

try a protein snack instead - like cheese and water instead of the milk.

Also drink tons of water, in case somone hasn't mentioned that lately!

You sound motivated, and that's an excellent way to start.

Barb

--------

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Premium Oldenburg sport horses

and fancy sport ponies for sale.

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

Re: beginner diet questions

>

>

>

> > I know you're right and I'm working on it. BTW, 180 was an oddball

high

> > reading for me... more typical numbers are 135-150.

>

> Good girl!!! :-)

>

> Barb

> --------

> Rainbow Farm Unltd.

> Premium Oldenburg sport horses

> and fancy sport ponies for sale.

> http://www.RainbowFarm.com

>

>

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> Public website for Diabetes International:

> http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

>

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>

>

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>

[Guest guest]

, that was a good post to Anne...but you didn't address her question of

how to shop (unless I forgot something)...Anne, stay away from packaged foods

- cereals, pastas, rices, etc. Concentrate on salads. Meats are fine too -

chicken, fish, beef, pork. Beans are fair. Canned soybeans, if you can find

'em are lower carb, higher protein and while they don't have too much flavor,

they can be doused with low-carb low-sugar barbecue sauce, etc. There are

lowcarb sites on the web you can purchase from if you can't get 'em locally.

If you need sweets after a meal try berries now that they're in season, just

not a lot. The USDA site is a great reference. I posted it earlier. Vicki

[Guest guest]

Anne

> I'd like to hear comments on what I'm eating

> and the results so far. It is a big change from

> how I ate two months ago, but I'm guessing that

> there will be more big changes in the future as

> things progress.

Try the following:

1. Don't eat anything at Mcs, ever. They have not the slightest

interest in your health. Their one and only interest is maximizing their

profit and that of their franchise owners. None of the junk they sell makes

any nutritional sense. I have seen it claimed that you get more benefit from

eating the paper bag and throwing the food away.

2. Don't eat any kind of fast food anywhere, ever. I have heard on AFTN that

the pain threshold for fast food customers in the US is 12 seconds. The

majority of those interviewed start to feel impatient if they don't get

served within that time. People that are dead set on being served quickly

are likely to get served food that digests quickly, too. Your aim should be

to eat food that digests slowly. How long it takes you to get served is of

absolutely no nutritional importance whatsoever. So relax.

3. Don't eat snacks, ever. Stick to three balanced (something of everything)

natural meals a day, spaced at least 5 hours apart. Snacks, especially those

you buy on the run, tend to be high-energy density, low nutritional value

junk. Your aim is to eat low-energy density, high nutritional value natural

meals. They take time to prepare, to eat and to digest. What's the big rush?

4. Never eat anything from vending machines. That stuff is loaded with

everything it needs to stop it from deteriorating over the full range of

weather, temperature and humidity conditions it might be exposed to in the

machine with a minimum of visits from the maintenance man. You don't need

that stuff. Buy only fresh food that has to be eaten soon after you get it.

If it goes off, throw it away and get some fresh stuff of the same kind.

5. Don't eat late at night, far less in the early hours of the morning. If

you really can't arrange to eat before 7 p.m., try giving it a miss until

breakfast next day. That won't do you any harm at all and is good

discipline.

6. Food is far too easy to get at. At the supermarket, park at the very far

side of the lot, the furthest from the door that you can get. Don't use a

cart, don't buy more than you can carry in your arms (don't buy anything in

a packet or a can, anyway). Walk back to your car with the two paper bags

you can carry in your arms. If you need any more food, walk back to the

store and repeat the procedure. You can use up 500 kcals that way easily and

lose some of that " supermarket guilt feeling " while you are about it.

7. Don't " start and end your days later than most people's " . Your metabolism

was not designed or evolved for that kind of lifestyle. That is something

that is entirely under your control. You need to eat a few regular leisurely

meals but your hopes of doing that are very slim unless you live regular

hours.

8. At 268 lbs, you could hope to lose about 10% or 27 lbs from your starting

weight before your body begins shutting down systems to maintain your

weight. There is no known way to beat it. You have already lost 10 lb so you

have another 17 lbs to go. That will be the time to switch over to

maintenance and try to keep at around 240 lbs for a few months.

I could go on an on like that, Anne, but you are probably not inclined to

read any more of it (otherwise you wouldn't be where you are now!). I don't

understand your blood glucose values, though. They are not much like mine so

I find it difficult to draw any conclusions.

> I've been using my BG monitor and values to help

> let me know if it is ok to eat or not. I'm not getting

> hungry as much as I used to, and since I'm supposed

> to check before meals, if I'm over 110 I postpone

> eating and just have something sugar-free to drink.

Yeah, sure. I tried that too but the catch is that your BG meter does not

know how much you weigh, how much energy you have taken on and how much of

it you have used up. And you can trick it too easily by just going easy on

the CHOs. The real meter is your scales (get a good $100 digital scales with

an electrical body fat display) and your tape measure. Weigh yourself daily,

read the body fat and calculate the daily average of blocks of 3 or 4 days

to smooth out the ripples. You will still only get to know that you ate too

much and exercised too little over the last few days but that is a lot

better than finding out that you ate too much and exercised too little over

the last few MONTHS!

The BG meter gate for eat/don't eat is superfluous if you are eating only

every five hours with nothing in between. Your BG just has to be low or

normal five hours after a meal. If your BG were still to be high five hours

after you ate then you are probably on the wrong treatment altogether (or

you have an infection or your liver is playing tricks). As it is, eating at

5-hour intervals will save you 3 measurements a day!

> Since what I'm doing is maintaining control of

> my BG values, though I sometimes go low if I

> don't eat soon enough, and I'm losing weight at

> the rate of about 1 lb./week, I think I'm doing ok

> and my doc is happy with the readings and weight

> loss.

That fact that your " doc is happy with the readings " doesn't mean a damn

thing. Stick around this list for a while and you will read about all kinds

of awful situations that " docs are happy with " . The thing that they are most

happy about is having another patient to bill. And I am not even being

cynical. If you had caught me in my cynical mood I could really have given

you some tales.

> I want to continue what I'm doing and add in exercise

> next, since I'm a serious " computer-chair potato " .

Dieting brings absolutely nothing lasting if you are not exercising with it.

You need to use up just a little more than you take in. You need to keep

moving about all day, if you can. Think about what you are doing to yourself

every time you sit down. Try piling books on all the chairs so that you have

to remain standing. Instead of just standing about, try walking up and down.

If you walk with nothing more than the body weight that you already have for

about one hour you will expend the energy equivalent of a teaspoonfull of

mayonnaise. But I have heard that while you are walking, your muscles

produce certain enzymes that will go on burning off fat later when the time

comes that you have to sit down for a while.

Use a 60 minute kitchen timer to limit your sessions on the

" computer-chair " . Prolonged staring at a monitor completely suppresses the

urinary urge so make a point of going at least once every hour to the toilet

that is furthest away (preferably up a few flights of stairs) and drink a

full glass of water afterwards so that you will have something to show for

it when you go again one hour later. Nobody has ever been able to show that

staring at a computer screen damages the eyes in any way whatever, but many

have claimed that it does real harm to the kidneys (I hope nobody asks me to

document all this!).

> It is a big change from how I ate two months ago,

> but I'm guessing that there will be more big changes

> in the future as things progress.

If you are looking for those " big changes " that will make that big

difference then you are on the wrong track, Anne. It is going to be the

combined effect of a lot of lttle things that very, very slowly make an

almost imperceptible difference. Don't bank on rapid " progress " , the odds

are very much against you. You will have to fight this thing, body and soul,

for a very long time, most likely for the rest of your life and you should

not be put off in the slightest by an apparent lack of progress or even the

reverse of it. You are going to have to make a passion out of trying to beat

the odds.

Regards

Thornton

Pforzheim, Germany

Type 2, BMI=33 (was 37), body fat=28% (was 33%), HbA1c=5.2 (was 12),

exercising 500+kcal/day average total activity (was 100).

[Guest guest]

-

Thanks for your feedback. It reinforced many things I know I need to change

about my lifestyle. Some things, however, I have little control over unless

I want to change careers. I do spend 8 hours a day at a computer, 5 days a

week. I'm a Software Engineering Specialist and I have grown accustomed to

my income. That isn't going to change. Getting up and walking around at

least once an hour IS something I can do. In fact, I can set my computer up

to remind me to do it, and I will.

Packing sensible food to eat IS something I can do. I need to learn more

about nutrition and what to eat. That's why I'm here and why I've been

going to suggested websites and reading.

The nutritionist I am working with advises low-carb and is working to help

me get there gradually. My attempts to go cold-turkey in the past have

always failed. I'd follow the diet for a few weeks or a few months and

eventually give in to severe cravings.

My work/sleep hours are different and later than most people. I've tried

changing that. Unfortunately, most attempts at doing that result in

emotional instability and severe insomnia. In addition to Diabetes, I am

dealing with manic-depression. The medication I am on is known to cause carb

cravings and weight gain. However, I am choosing to ignore everything I've

been told about the weight being the result of the meds. I am choosing to

focus on changing my eating habits and exercising more. I don't see a

reason why I can't have my meals based on my own wake/sleep cycle. You make

the assumption that if I don't eat dinner until 8-9 PM I am going to sleep

right after eating... since I generally don't go to sleep until 1 AM, I

don't see that I'm really doing anything different than someone who eats at

5 PM and goes to bed at 10 PM. Does the actual time on the clock really

make a difference?

>I could go on an on like that, Anne, but you are probably not inclined to

>read any more of it (otherwise you wouldn't be where you are now!).

From that comment, , I am guessing that you have a problem with

overweight people. I found the rest of your post helpful, but I took that

part personally. I am not some stupid, lazy, worthless fat person. I've

worked a long time to get to the point where I recognize that who I am and

my worth as a person is NOT just a question of my weight.

Anne

[Guest guest]

>The nutritionist I am working with advises low-carb and is working to help

>me get there gradually. My attempts to go cold-turkey in the past have

>always failed. I'd follow the diet for a few weeks or a few months and

>eventually give in to severe cravings.

****This is great news, Anne. It really sounds like you have a handle on

what will work for you. And you're right about gradual, IMHO. If you're

body works well with low carb, you'll be suprised at how the cravings

disappear. For me now, if I have a " treat " like ice cream, the cravings

will return for a few days. I find this pretty interesting, and a good

reason to avoid " treats " . And it sounds like your nutritionist is just what

you need now.

Barb

--------

Rainbow Farm Unltd.

Premium Oldenburg sport horses

and fancy sport ponies for sale.

http://www.RainbowFarm.com

[Guest guest]

,

most of what you say is cool, but you seem awfully dogmatic.

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:40:10 +0200

>

> Subject: Re: beginner diet questions

>

> Try the following:

>

> 1. Don't eat anything at Mcs, ever. They have not the slightest

> 2. Don't eat any kind of fast food anywhere, ever. I have heard on AFTN that

If you start with a grilled chicken sandwich and throw away the bread,

this might be OK. I't better than letting yourself get so hungry you fell

bad or eat something really bad.

> 3. Don't eat snacks, ever. Stick to three balanced (something of everything)

> natural meals a day, spaced at least 5 hours apart. Snacks, especially those

I think this is a YMMV thing. Many different sources advocate that having

more frequent, smaller meals is better than having less frequent larger

meals.

Snacks should be eaten with due regard to carb content, glycemiic index

(if you follow that), fat and protein content, and total caloric content.

> 7. Don't " start and end your days later than most people's " . Your metabolism

> was not designed or evolved for that kind of lifestyle. That is something

> that is entirely under your control. You need to eat a few regular leisurely

> meals but your hopes of doing that are very slim unless you live regular

> hours.

I think that if you consistently started and ended your days later than

most, the body would adapt with no problems. Studies show it's the wide

variations in sleep cycles (such as from rotating shifts) which are most

harmful.

> 8. At 268 lbs, you could hope to lose about 10% or 27 lbs from your starting

> weight before your body begins shutting down systems to maintain your

> weight. There is no known way to beat it.

Exercise helps beat this. It's generally impossible to maintain the

_rate_ of weight loss seen when you initially improve your eating

practices, but weight loss can continue. Exercise fights the body's

tendency to slow the matabolism.

> You have already lost 10 lb so you

> have another 17 lbs to go. That will be the time to switch over to

> maintenance and try to keep at around 240 lbs for a few months.

No. Continue to lose weight, but know that it is a process that takes

time. I have never been able to sustain a rate of weight loss of more

than 2.5 lbs per week for any period of time and even reaching that level

doesn't appear possible anymore. (The last time I did that was 10 or more

years ago. And it was very hard then. It looks like at 45, I can't do

that anymore.) I'm going at something like 1 pound per week, as a long

term average. It doesn't happen consistently either; sometimes, several

weeks, once as much as a month, will go by without loss, then several

pounds come off all at once. But I think it would be a serious mistake to

go into maintenenace mode at 240lbs. That is too high for your health.

> The real meter is your scales and your tape measure. Weigh yourself daily,

> read the body fat and calculate the daily average of blocks of 3 or 4 days

> to smooth out the ripples. You will still only get to know that you ate too

> much and exercised too little over the last few days but that is a lot

> better than finding out that you ate too much and exercised too little over

> the last few MONTHS!

The tape measure part is important. If you exercise, you may build muscle

at the same time as losing fat. Muscle weighs more than fat. So it's

possible to get smaller and healthier even when weight isn't lost.

's comments about the scale that measure body-fat are well taken if

the device is reliable; I've read some fairly discouraging things about

the consistency and accuracy of those things, though, so I'm not as

sanguine.

> That fact that your " doc is happy with the readings " doesn't mean a damn

> thing. Stick around this list for a while and you will read about all kinds

> of awful situations that " docs are happy with " .

This is true, even without thinking the doctors do it in order to have

patients to bill. Many are behind the times.

> Dieting brings absolutely nothing lasting if you are not exercising with it.

Dieting to the extent of reducing carb intake as needed to achieve good

control is terribly important (if this is what you have to do). But

exercise for weight loss and genral well-being is, too.

> If you walk with nothing more than the body weight that you already have for

> about one hour you will expend the energy equivalent of a teaspoonfull of

> mayonnaise. But I have heard that while you are walking, your muscles

> produce certain enzymes that will go on burning off fat later when the time

> comes that you have to sit down for a while.

Covert discusses this effect in detail in his 'Fit or Fat' books

(though his diet advice, last I read, was still on the high-carb/low-fat

side).

> Use a 60 minute kitchen timer to limit your sessions on the

> " computer-chair " . Prolonged staring at a monitor completely suppresses the

> urinary urge .... many

> have claimed that it does real harm to the kidneys (I hope nobody asks me to

> document all this!).

, please document all this.

> If you are looking for those " big changes " that will make that big

> difference then you are on the wrong track, Anne. It is going to be the

> combined effect of a lot of lttle things that very, very slowly make an

> almost imperceptible difference.

Basically true, although some of the good effects of diet and exercise

show up quickly in blood sugar levels. And the effects of this are

definitely noticeable after a few months. A couple of weeks ago, I had 2

of the grandsons of a friend get on my back (that's 80 lbs. of mischief),

then I hiked up a flight of stairs and carried them around up there for a

while. Back in February, I was hard pressed to get my self upstairs.

During that period, I've lost about 27 lbs.

> Don't bank on rapid " progress " , the odds

> are very much against you. You will have to fight this thing, body and soul,

> for a very long time, most likely for the rest of your life and you should

> not be put off in the slightest by an apparent lack of progress or even the

> reverse of it. You are going to have to make a passion out of trying to beat

> the odds.

>

> Regards

>

> Thornton

> Pforzheim, Germany

> Type 2, BMI=33 (was 37), body fat=28% (was 33%), HbA1c=5.2 (was 12),

> exercising 500+kcal/day average total activity (was 100).

>

Congratulations on your improving numbers.