Re: Stomping more fleas: If I am REALLY good it will solve everything.

[Guest guest]

Yeah, Trish, it was no party. I was always compared to my brother and told that

I was stupid (really when THEY didn't know an answer) or just to be mean. My

college GPA is a 4.0. I would get beat by both my mom and dad and was told that

it was for my own good. I was sexually molested until I was 18 years old

stopped at 6 with my mom. Each one told me different messages, but all were

lies and hurtful and confused the hell out of me. My nada wanted me to be a

girl, so she dressed me up from 2-early 5 in girls clothes. My Uncle caught her

doing this and told my dad and this ended. But she just changed her tactics;

she would tell me that God intended me to be a girl and she burned my genitals

with boiling water. So I was really confused in my single digit years due to

her insanity. Today I was having my coffee out on the balcony and saw all these

preschoolers walking with a teacher on the sidewalk. I just looked at them,

especially this little blonde boy and thought

how and who could every do or say anything to confuse those precious little

beings.

And there also was the flip side of the direct messages; not getting any

attention or life instruction that a parent should give their child. They did

for my older brother but not for me, so there was another message that was

insane. The longer I go without contact, the less power those messages have on

me and the more decisions I realize I have with the power to make them.

tlblack2006 wrote:

Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas that are really

subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

experiences.

I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a mistake.

.. .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard to

avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way going to

accomplish that.

The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____ enough. I

actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I actually

remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

was 20!

Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty voice in

this case.

Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to hear

your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a few

days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment and

I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get unstuck

Trish

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Yes, that was a common flea for me too.

I think at the core of it is a desparate need for KO's to control

the environment. And when we can't control and we did everything we

could think of, and boy do we work ourselves up to think out every

single detail and contingency, we blame ourselves for lack of

control because we were taught to blame ourselves for being less.

We're punching ourselves for the BP so they won't do it for us.

Somehow hurting ourselves (emotional, physically, etc) hurts less

because we can control it. Do you see the dance?

One metaphor that helped me came for my wonderful husband. He said

that family relationships are like multiple people holding a bowl

full of water. If one person loses balance or tries to correct

someone else's hold, the water is going to splash. We all play a

part in family dynamics, but none of us can take the full control of

the group without affecting the others.

Good for you for de-fleaing. Keep it up.

a

>

> Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas that are

really

> subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> experiences.

>

> I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

mistake.

> . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard

to

> avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

going to

> accomplish that.

>

> The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____

enough. I

> actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

actually

> remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> was 20!

>

> Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty

voice in

> this case.

>

> Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

hear

> your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

few

> days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

and

> I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

unstuck

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, Trish,

This has got to be a common flea, cuz, the whole deal with BPs and

other personality disordered people is they tell everyone that their

(the BP's) unhappiness is the other person's fault.

If only we would be more or less x, do more or less y, whatever...then

nada will be happy. Course it never works, but this is the " recipe for

success " that we are taught. We have to be " better " . And in Greg's

case, he had the impossible task of " being born a girl " . Ai yi yi.

So I think when we are taught this strategy very young--this is the

way we avoid nada's wrath, we are as perfect as possible--it

definitely transfers to other relationships and other contexts.

Definitely true for me too. Stomp stomp stomp that flea.

Janie

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I was so sad to read about your being split bad (called stupid etc)

and especially about your nada wanting a girl. Because, with many of

our nada's crazy expectations, we could often do " something " (like

getting " better " grades) to comply with her and get her to lay off a

bit. You know? The expectations are still wrong, but at least when the

child can do something to try to meet them, the child can sometimes

get some temporary relief.

But there was no way you could accommodate her in her wish for a girl.

Talk about helplessness! So it would have been all the harder to deal

with that.

No matter how crazy your nada was, you were still a wonderful little

boy, just like those precious children you saw today.

I can really relate to what you said about, how can anyone want to

confuse (or hurt) these beautiful sweet little creatures. When I go

early to pick up my daughter at preschool, and peek in the window at

her class, they are such beautiful, sweet babies. Even as depressed as

I've been, I still smile at the sight of them doing their " circle

time, " listening to a story or singing a song. They all deserve such

love. So did we.

Janie

[Guest guest]

Greg I don't know if I have more sadness on my heart for you or

anger at your parents for what they did to you. I hope you never

give them the pleasure of having you in their lives they don't

deserve you. You are so incredibly special for being able to make it

through all of this and stay so strong. I know how you feel about

looking at the kids and wondering who could hurt them how is it

possible to hurt such sweet being? I really don't know. But that is

what separates us from them. It is good we don't understand these

things. Love and hugs Lizzy

> Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas

that are really

> subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> experiences.

>

> I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

mistake.

> . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard to

> avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

going to

> accomplish that.

>

> The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____ enough.

I

> actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

actually

> remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> was 20!

>

> Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty voice

in

> this case.

>

> Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

hear

> your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

few

> days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

and

> I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

unstuck

>

> Trish

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, Trish, I did this. As someone else mentioned, we were told

that nada was upset and it was our fault, we were just not good

enough at whatever it was that nada thought she needed at the

moment.

I discovered that I took this need to be perfect into several other

areas of my adult life. It transferred into the need to be perfect

in all relationships, and caused me to be dependent upon everyone

elses' assessments of me for my feelings of self worth. In a work

situation, if I wasn't better than everyone else, then I just wasn't

good enough. Since I couldn't get what I needed from nada, I took

those same dynamics and applied them to personal and work

relationships. Oh my, did this cause me to be messed up, and of

course, since I couldn't be perfect, I was just reinforcing the nada

nastiness.

I became a people pleaser, with no thoughts or ideas of mine own.

You are right, it is very subtle. Where do you draw the line

between being nice and considerate and being the person who gives up

their own self to please others.

Sending you some flea powder,

Sylvia

>

> Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas that are

really

> subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> experiences.

>

> I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

mistake.

> . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard

to

> avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

going to

> accomplish that.

>

> The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____

enough. I

> actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

actually

> remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> was 20!

>

> Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty

voice in

> this case.

>

> Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

hear

> your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

few

> days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

and

> I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

unstuck

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

Greg, when I think about stories like yours it just reminds me--it's

completely normal to have fleas and that we're all damn lucky to be as

sane as we are! I am VERY glad to know that you are NC with your

nada, given her history of abuse. And you're right, when you really

think about how someone could treat a child that way, it is unimaginable.

Hugs,

Trish

> Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas

that are really

> subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> experiences.

>

> I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a mistake.

> . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard to

> avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way going to

> accomplish that.

>

> The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____ enough. I

> actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I actually

> remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> was 20!

>

> Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty voice in

> this case.

>

> Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to hear

> your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a few

> days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment and

> I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get unstuck

>

> Trish

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

a, what you said makes a lot of sense and my therapist has pointed

out to me repeatedly how stressed out I get in " out of control "

situations. I think I was a little resistant to that information

before because, in my family, being a control freak=being like nada

and it scared me to see myself that way. But, I really need to look

at that side of myself again.

Trish

> >

> > Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas that are

> really

> > subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> > experiences.

> >

> > I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> > later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> > ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

> mistake.

> > . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> > Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard

> to

> > avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

> going to

> > accomplish that.

> >

> > The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> > hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____

> enough. I

> > actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

> actually

> > remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> > fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> > was 20!

> >

> > Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> > with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> > SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty

> voice in

> > this case.

> >

> > Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> > examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> > identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

> hear

> > your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

> few

> > days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

> and

> > I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

> unstuck

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Janie, thanks for illuminating this issue for me--and I think your

interpretation of Greg's childhood predicament (being asked to be a

girl) is helpful because it really demonstrates for me that the things

that we have been expected to do/accommplish in order to pacify our

nada's are so ABSURD! And when you think about it, the sacrifices we

are asked to make are all the more ridiculous because BP's will never

be happy, no matter what. Thanks for your insights.

Trish

>

> Hi, Trish,

> This has got to be a common flea, cuz, the whole deal with BPs and

> other personality disordered people is they tell everyone that their

> (the BP's) unhappiness is the other person's fault.

>

> If only we would be more or less x, do more or less y, whatever...then

> nada will be happy. Course it never works, but this is the " recipe for

> success " that we are taught. We have to be " better " . And in Greg's

> case, he had the impossible task of " being born a girl " . Ai yi yi.

>

> So I think when we are taught this strategy very young--this is the

> way we avoid nada's wrath, we are as perfect as possible--it

> definitely transfers to other relationships and other contexts.

>

> Definitely true for me too. Stomp stomp stomp that flea.

> Janie

>

[Guest guest]

Sylvia, thanks for the examples of how these fleas can affect the

various aspects of your life. I think that I had the same problem

(before going to lots of therapy) that you did at work: thinking that

if I wasn't the best, I wasn't good enough. You just can't survive

like that!

Thanks for the flea powder.

Trish

> >

> > Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas that are

> really

> > subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> > experiences.

> >

> > I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> > later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> > ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

> mistake.

> > . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> > Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard

> to

> > avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

> going to

> > accomplish that.

> >

> > The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> > hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____

> enough. I

> > actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

> actually

> > remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> > fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> > was 20!

> >

> > Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> > with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> > SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty

> voice in

> > this case.

> >

> > Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> > examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> > identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

> hear

> > your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

> few

> > days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

> and

> > I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

> unstuck

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Greg -- so glad to see you made it out of that madness and into a

life of your own, with your compassion and sanity intact. It's a

blessing that you made it out. God will deal with those who

inflicted harm on an innocent child. I'm so glad the evil actions

of others didn't engulf you and make you disappear. In fact, you're

thriving.

Isn't it ironic your brother's the one " drowning " ?

I'm inspired by your life. So glad you're here to lend help on this

board.

{{hugs}}

Kyla

> Hi guys, recently I've been digging up some more fleas

that are really

> subtle and nasty and would like your feedback, ideas, or just

> experiences.

>

> I think it's a pretty common KO experience to think(as a child and

> later) that if you're perfect enough, if you solve all the problems

> ahead of time, if you achieve the impossible and never make a

mistake.

> . .that things will be safer, better etc. I think Greg called this

> Magical Thinking recently. I know that I was always working hard to

> avoid conflict in the foo by doing things that were in no way

going to

> accomplish that.

>

> The flip side of this is that when things don't go the way you'd

> hoped, you start to imagine it's because you weren't _____ enough.

I

> actually start blaming myself for things beyond my control. I

actually

> remember once I burst into tears when my parents got into a

> fight--because I thought it was all my fault for not stopping it--I

> was 20!

>

> Thinking about it, I didn't just acquire this as a means to coping

> with nada's rage and the general chaos I grew up in--nada actually

> SAYS things like this to me. She is also literally the nasty voice

in

> this case.

>

> Do you guys know what I'm talking about? I have some more specific

> examples, but am hesitant to share them because they realy would

> identify me to anyone I know reading these posts. I'm hoping to

hear

> your experiences because I've been mulling over this dynamic for a

few

> days--revisiting it really. It may be time for a new " aha " moment

and

> I find that hearing other people's input really helps me get

unstuck

>

> Trish

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>