Re: The Holidays- presents and my recent anxiety

[Guest guest]

>

> Kerrie, I'm trying SO hard to be more understanding about these

kinds of things!!

>

> With Nada it's always in the hidden meanings of things... I was a

little heavy growing up and she always used this to shame me. Once

I got older my weight problem ended and I've been pretty small for

over 20 years now, although Nada always acts very " concerned " and

critical of my weight and always brings up that I'm " built like my

father " (who has a significant weight problem).

>

> So, it stings when she still buys me extra large, because really

she's calling me fat!

>

> Also, I think it's about the spousification with her -- she sees

herself as being frail and feminine and physically tiny (needing

protection) so she buys herself way-too-small sizes and dresses like

a helpless pre-teen girl. Whereas I'M supposed to be the " big

strong husband " -- so my clothes are extra large and unisex in

nature.

>

> It's SO not surprising to me that your nada -- who probably prided

herself on being fashionable -- would deliberately buy you UN-

fashionable or ill-fitting clothes!

>

> It's weird.... only in Oz does a simple shirt have SO MUCH meaning

attached....

I think this last sentence speaks volumes. I've had the same

clothes/ weight experience with my mother. It's the little, implied

under-handed jabs, which appear so meaningless, that make us (and

others) feel we are over-reacting or that the problems exist only in

our heads. Its the simple things that are " crazy-making " .

Ariel

[Guest guest]

Kerrie,

Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a quote, but

couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so hard for

people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our parents hurt

us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt her

children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would know beyond a

shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your analogy of

living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's presence.

That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a gray/green and

the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms stands up and

you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really knew what

it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got help for the

PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the world was in

color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into a black

and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to a full

rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change as an

adult.

,

I've been reading some of your posts, and am just getting caught up.

Please don't think that it is wrong to be angry, or that you should

stifle that in any way. Feelings are never wrong. My anger and rage

is what brought me through the storm. You have every right to be

angry. Whether your mother made conscious decisions or not, she abused

you horribly. For me, the only way to heal was to go through the anger

and rage, and come out the other side. If I had tried to stop it, or

felt guilty about it, I wouldn't have made it. I think the thing you

have to work on is channeling that energy into action that will help

you heal. For me it was working like hell to get better, getting

treatment for PTSD and going NC. I did lots of drawing, exercising and

throwing ice (I really needed to break something!).

In my case I believe there is an element of choice in my mother's

behavior. At some point she made the choice to spew her anger and rage

out onto her children. So while bpd is classified as a mental illness,

and she definitely is not normal, I believe she has had the opportunity

to make better choices, to get help, and chose not to. And I also know

that she knows what she does is wrong at least on some level because

she went to such great lengths to hide it. But even if you believe

that your own mother was not able to make better choices, it doesn't

change what she did to you. That little boy cowering from his mother

has every right to be mad as hell. And if you are like me, you will

have to truly feel that in order to heal. I think it is a matter of

validation. I had to validate what I felt as a child - really hear it

- to move past it. Feelings just are. It's what you do with them that

matters. (Thus the throwing ice for me so I could be destructive

without actually hurting anyone or anything.) I know you are

struggling right now. I've been there, as have so many people here.

And I know going NC is the hardest decision I ever made. But in

hindsight, it is also the best. Hang in there, and keep talking about

it. Just getting it all out in the open is half the battle.

Fresabird

> ,

>

> I happen to think she can help herself, but choses not to and in

> those cases you are entitled to be angry at the unjustice. A lion, on

> the otherhand, can not help themselves. They are not capable of

> reason and live off of instict. Human beings are different and that's

> what sets us apart from other animals. That is also why I think the

> terror they unleash on their intimates is all the more difficult for

> normal people to accept b/c its unreasonable and diabolical and

> people don't want to see that. I don't think civilized people want to

> face the fact we all have shadows and that some truly live in the

> shadows. I think that's how Hitler took over- people not wanting to

> see the obvious as it is so alien to reason to be so base and cruel

> and sadistic (yet it is also the thing rampant in our history books).

>

> I really think it is important to be honest w/our feelings and if you

> are angry, I wouldn't dare say 'get over it' or 'you don't have a

> right to it'. I'd say you're fully entitled to it and probably are

> there for a good reason right now- part of the healing process and

> validation process so that someday these things won't conjure up as

> much anger. But don't get me wrong. I still get pissed off when I

> read over some of my journals and letters from the past of specific

> things that woman did. I hold her accountable to degrees as I know

> she understands on certain levels what she's doing. Otherwise she

> wouldn't be so good at her jekyll-hyder persona. But the degree to

> which she is aware is something I'll leave the academia world to

> explore and I don't think they even know. She needs professional help

> and only got into it again after her fiance's suicide this year even

> though I've said that to her for 4 years now. At this point in our

> relationship, I don't much care or trust that she's in therapy for

> any reason other than milking the T for sympathy over her fiance's

> suicide b/c no one else will be a shoulder to cry anymore for her.

> World of difference in reasons she's going to therapy and why I

> wanted her to. I can't control her though and a lot of times I can't

> control my emotional response around her and so its best for me to

> take care of me and steer clear of her lion nature. Actually I kind

> of like lions. The lioness is fiercely protective of her young unlike

> the bordlerine mother. I wish our nadas were more like the lion!

>

> Kerrie

[Guest guest]

I thank you all, too. I just went NC last week. I think I should

feel great - and I think I will. But right now, I just feel the

trauma of it all, and the unbridled cruelty of my brother's

response. In his response, I realized - the monster has grown a

second head. And though I believe he and my parents would see it as

my abandoning my family, the opposite is true - I'm finally fully

acknowledging the truth that they abandoned me long ago.

When does the trauma, at least from this, subside, and some quiet

can begin?

>

> Kerrie,

>

> Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a quote,

but

> couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so hard

for

> people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our parents

hurt

> us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt her

> children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would know

beyond a

> shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

analogy of

> living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

presence.

> That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a gray/green

and

> the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms stands up

and

> you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really knew

what

> it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got help for

the

> PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the world was

in

> color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into a

black

> and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to a

full

> rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change as an

> adult.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Fresabird,

That is such an awesome visual!!!! The tornado analogy to the

oncoming borderline turn or rage is so profound and as I was reading

your description I was like 'yes, yes, that's it!' I almost wanted

to add to the point after you mention the hairs standing on end

before the tornado comes through and I thought of how that really

does happen because of all the 'static' electricity that's in the

air. When I was in high school I took a class in physics and

distinctly remember static vs dynamic energy and thought to

myself 'my mother lives in a zone of static energy and I'm trying to

figure out how to live in dynamic energy zones' but your adding on

the tornado makes even more sense in retrospect as to why I saw her

as living in static energy. She is the oncoming tornado! Wow! This is

really good writing you're doing to express a nada:) Bravo!

Kerrie

>

> > ,

> >

> > I happen to think she can help herself, but choses not to and in

> > those cases you are entitled to be angry at the unjustice. A

lion, on

> > the otherhand, can not help themselves. They are not capable of

> > reason and live off of instict. Human beings are different and

that's

> > what sets us apart from other animals. That is also why I think

the

> > terror they unleash on their intimates is all the more difficult

for

> > normal people to accept b/c its unreasonable and diabolical and

> > people don't want to see that. I don't think civilized people

want to

> > face the fact we all have shadows and that some truly live in the

> > shadows. I think that's how Hitler took over- people not wanting

to

> > see the obvious as it is so alien to reason to be so base and

cruel

> > and sadistic (yet it is also the thing rampant in our history

books).

> >

> > I really think it is important to be honest w/our feelings and

if you

> > are angry, I wouldn't dare say 'get over it' or 'you don't have a

> > right to it'. I'd say you're fully entitled to it and probably

are

> > there for a good reason right now- part of the healing process

and

> > validation process so that someday these things won't conjure up

as

> > much anger. But don't get me wrong. I still get pissed off when I

> > read over some of my journals and letters from the past of

specific

> > things that woman did. I hold her accountable to degrees as I

know

> > she understands on certain levels what she's doing. Otherwise she

> > wouldn't be so good at her jekyll-hyder persona. But the degree

to

> > which she is aware is something I'll leave the academia world to

> > explore and I don't think they even know. She needs professional

help

> > and only got into it again after her fiance's suicide this year

even

> > though I've said that to her for 4 years now. At this point in

our

> > relationship, I don't much care or trust that she's in therapy

for

> > any reason other than milking the T for sympathy over her

fiance's

> > suicide b/c no one else will be a shoulder to cry anymore for

her.

> > World of difference in reasons she's going to therapy and why I

> > wanted her to. I can't control her though and a lot of times I

can't

> > control my emotional response around her and so its best for me

to

> > take care of me and steer clear of her lion nature. Actually I

kind

> > of like lions. The lioness is fiercely protective of her young

unlike

> > the bordlerine mother. I wish our nadas were more like the lion!

> >

> > Kerrie

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Good one w/the monster growing a second head. It reminded me of greek

Mythology and the Hydra- the 9 headed monster w/snake heads and when

one head was chopped off, two sprang up in its place or in

Christianity- one demon is cast out and 7 return more strong and

powerful.

So true and I'm kind of battling that right now w/going NC but seeing

my aunt turning a lot crazy this year. I'm no longer a victim in need

of rescue and so she doesn't know how to handle a relationship w/me

and so keeps saying bs things like 'well she's just being a

grandmother'- HA! I suppose if that's the case when nada gave auntie

a few hand towels w/the terms 'Queen of Unfinished Projects' I

should've told auntie-'well you are and isn't that funny?' My aunt is

really invalidating and I see that now b/c me being the all bad one

takes the heat off my nada turning on auntie whose next in line.

Just planned on going NC w/nada, but truly am over my aunt too though

I wouldn't say I'm NC- just ready to move to RC w/her until she's in

therapy a lot longer and dealing w/herself. But she feels a lot like

to me how you describe your brother though not as brutally in your

face- more Obligation and guilt than the fear part of FOG I think

your brother and dad are pulling on you. They all suck.

In so far as when you don't feel so bad, well it takes time. I felt

like crap the first time and was so paranoid about making the right

decision and feeling so isolated- even w/therapy and this board. I

mean I couldn't wait to sign on and post and yet my identity felt so

frail in the light of rejecting the FOO bs- like a recent orphan or

widow, ya know? It was horrible even w/a supportive dh- just paranoid

a lot. I guess it got easier the more I healed and emoted and got

real w/my life and that's the best thing about creating distance

w/the FOO emotionally- for once in your life you can focus on your

shortcomings and where to work for true healing rather than it all

being about a nada as truly a KO needs work and healing...just

the 'squeaky wheel gets the oil'and so we're never able to heal and

foucs on ourselves in the light of the monstrocity of their illness.

Best wishes to you. Be gentle with yourself. You are here on earth

for a reason and precious to your little boy. You hung the moon and

stars for him and some day when he's a man, he will appreciate the

strength you are now gaining and embracing to be a real woman in the

world capable of holding her own and her head held high. He won't be

like your brother. He will know a good woman when he sees one b/c you

are becoming that model of womanhood for him:)

Kerrie

> >

> > Kerrie,

> >

> > Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a quote,

> but

> > couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so hard

> for

> > people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our parents

> hurt

> > us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt her

> > children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would know

> beyond a

> > shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

> analogy of

> > living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

> presence.

> > That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a gray/green

> and

> > the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms stands

up

> and

> > you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really

knew

> what

> > it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got help

for

> the

> > PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the world

was

> in

> > color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into a

> black

> > and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to a

> full

> > rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change as

an

> > adult.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I'm there for you; I've reached the point in my life where I can't go

back. I've given up too much already; I'm glad you realized that

they've forgotten you and are blinded by roles and comfortable

dysfunctions that plague their lives. It's sad because you care about

them, but we all need to start loving ourselves.

And as the NC: I've never had such a black loneliness come over me

through my first week or two, but as it increases, its climb starts to

diminish and a light that is brighter than anything starts shinning

in. This light gives hope, strength, true happiness, I found myself

laughing and crying all in the same hour. I never cried at my

grandmother's funeral because I was completely bankrupt and closed.

I've held it all back for so long, it's like I was at war for so long

I had forgotten what life was like. I notice the air in my lungs, the

sun and birds. It'll get much better, you sound like you're a strong,

rational individual. Oh and remember to go easy on yourself, your

fragile right now. A friend told me that and its good advice. 15 days

NC cheers!

> >

> > Kerrie,

> >

> > Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a quote,

> but

> > couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so hard

> for

> > people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our parents

> hurt

> > us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt her

> > children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would know

> beyond a

> > shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

> analogy of

> > living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

> presence.

> > That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a gray/green

> and

> > the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms stands up

> and

> > you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really knew

> what

> > it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got help for

> the

> > PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the world was

> in

> > color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into a

> black

> > and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to a

> full

> > rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change as an

> > adult.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kerrie, , all - thanks so much. What you're describing, so

articulately, is where I am, but it gives me perspective. I stopped

and thought yesterday, " wait, I don't have to re-run the tape of my

brother's condemnation. " That was my hope for going NC - those

voices might fade a bit, and, as you say, , I could begin to

experience my feelings NOT in terms of defending myself against them-

or not so much. A wise friend/counselor warned me yesterday -

don't look back - remember Lot's wife turning into a pillar of

salt. So I'm avoiding the rear-view mirror.

> > >

> > > Kerrie,

> > >

> > > Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a

quote,

> > but

> > > couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so

hard

> > for

> > > people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our

parents

> > hurt

> > > us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt

her

> > > children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would know

> > beyond a

> > > shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

> > analogy of

> > > living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

> > presence.

> > > That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a

gray/green

> > and

> > > the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms

stands up

> > and

> > > you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really

knew

> > what

> > > it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got help

for

> > the

> > > PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the world

was

> > in

> > > color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into a

> > black

> > > and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to

a

> > full

> > > rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change

as an

> > > adult.

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I accept and appreciate your thanks (check it out, I accepted your

compliment), I admire how quickly you're adapting to the world, that

is life outside of OZ. It's like all the funhouse mirrors that we

viewed the world (and are role in that world) through are falling,

crashing to the ground.

> > > >

> > > > Kerrie,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a

> quote,

> > > but

> > > > couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so

> hard

> > > for

> > > > people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our

> parents

> > > hurt

> > > > us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can

hurt

> her

> > > > children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would

know

> > > beyond a

> > > > shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

> > > analogy of

> > > > living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

> > > presence.

> > > > That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a

> gray/green

> > > and

> > > > the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms

> stands up

> > > and

> > > > you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never

really

> knew

> > > what

> > > > it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got

help

> for

> > > the

> > > > PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the

world

> was

> > > in

> > > > color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into

a

> > > black

> > > > and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray

to

> a

> > > full

> > > > rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change

> as an

> > > > adult.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

,

I too am reminded of that story a lot, pun intended-LOT. I always

thought there was an enormous amount of symbology in that story that

is overlooked. Did she really turn into a pillar of salt? Well I

don't know. I take it as yes, but I also know that salt is in our

tears. When we look back too much, we shed a lifetime of tears and so

turn into a pillar of salt (water). Salt is also bitter. Too much

looking back can leave us all a bit bitter. I've meditated on this

story a great deal as it speaks volumes to me and I like the life

lessons for it. I think nada is very bitter and lives in the past-

she's a pillar of salt. I don't want that for my life and yet looking

ahead at the unknown road and walking ahead with faith in what's not

seen to be real is VERY difficult. Interesting that you bring this

story up as I'm trying really hard now to have faith and just let go

of some of the trauma from this year- to not look back as much as I

do (which is a fraction of what I use to do but we do what we're

taught until we learn a new lesson).

Kerrie

> > > >

> > > > Kerrie,

> > > >

> > > > Thank you so much for this message. I was going to put a

> quote,

> > > but

> > > > couldn't decide which part as it is so powerful. It is so

> hard

> > > for

> > > > people to accept that anyone can hurt people they way our

> parents

> > > hurt

> > > > us, and even harder for them to accept that a mother can hurt

> her

> > > > children. I too would prefer the lion. At least I would

know

> > > beyond a

> > > > shadow of a doubt what I was dealing with. And I love your

> > > analogy of

> > > > living in the shadows. I always felt so dark in my mother's

> > > presence.

> > > > That scary time before a tornado when the sky grows a

> gray/green

> > > and

> > > > the wind ceases for a moment where the hair on your arms

> stands up

> > > and

> > > > you feel that creepy feeling down your spine. I never really

> knew

> > > what

> > > > it was to walk fully in the light until I went NC and got

help

> for

> > > the

> > > > PTSD. I remember feeling like I woke up one day and the

world

> was

> > > in

> > > > color - kind of like that movie where the characters go into

a

> > > black

> > > > and white world, only I went from black and shades of gray to

> a

> > > full

> > > > rainbow of color. Quite amazing to have that kind of change

> as an

> > > > adult.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>