Re: Need feedback: respecting sibling's wishes to stay NC

[Guest guest]

Yeah. . .I've wondered(worried) that it might be like that. We'll

see. The thing is, she already does a lot of the covert stuff--it

gets really old. I have to work on that side of things too. It seems

like a lot. SIGH!

>

> Trish,

> Yes, that's how it was--I would address one thing, think " whew! " ,

only to see another problem staring at me. Almost like those cartoons

where holes are popping up all over dam, and the little cartoon

creature can't stop them up.

>

> I'm glad progress is happening for you, and that your strategies

seem to be working!

>

> In my case (not that it is the same as yours), some of the overt

stuff went away, once she understood I wasn't going to tolerate it

(after I had kids is a good example of when she knew had to " tone it

down " or the consequence would be I could not allow her to be around

the kids).

>

> But in her case (like the cartoon dam that just NEEDS to pop

somewhere!), she really stepped up the covert, subtle, sneaky stuff,

which was bad in its own new way.

>

> I appreciated the lack of screaming, for instance--espeically at

first--but I didn't like the fact that the covert stuff was so

slippery and hard to pin down--it made it harder to identify, and

harder to complain about (because she could deny it), and thus harder

to make clear consequences for. And of course, bottom line: the knot

in my stomach was still there with every interaction.

>

> In a way, that covert stuff is more sophisticated and can be very

effective. It's easy to deny responsibility for.

>

> Again, not that this will happen with you, and I wish that it

won't! It's just something that happened along my path, when I tried

somes similar things as you're trying now. Hopefully, your mileage

will vary!

>

> Flea

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

>

>

[Guest guest]

That's a good way to deal with it w/o bringing on the rage--maybe!

Thanks for the idea. I can definitely use that in visits.

>

> > Hi everyone, I've got a question for the group. My brother is

basically

> > NC with our nada

> > and will be completely NC soon. The thing is, my nada is

practically on

> > a fact-finding

> > mission on him and is also conducting a smear campaing about him. I

> > find myself in

> > situations that I'm not totally sure how to deal with and would

like to

> > know how you've

> > handled it or would handle it.

> >

> > To make a long story short, I am tired of my nada telling ME about my

> > brother, when she

> > doesn't know squat and is just trying to make him look bad and/or find

> > things out that he

> > doesn't want her to know. If I call her on things I know to be

untrue,

> > she can figure things

> > out and will attempt to use what she's learned to do. . .whatever

it is

> > she's doing to do this

> > time. If I say nothing, I just tend to sit there and fester and feel

> > irritated.

> >

> > At this point, my goal is to remain in contact with nada and dad

as long

> > as it doesn't cause

> > me to suffer--so I'm looking for a kind of diplomatic way to say, " I

> > DON'T WANT TO

> > DISCUSS HIM ANYMORE, SO DROP IT!!!!! "

> >

> > I'm thinking of a couple of routes. I could just change the subject

> > everytime. (I have an

> > Uncle who is EXTREMELY good at this, but I get kind of too

irritated to

> > be that creative). I

> > could also just be honest and say something like I'm uncomfortable

> > talking about him with

> > my parents since they're not on good terms.

> >

> > Anyone else have any ideas or similar situations????

> >

> > Trish

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Trish,

Yes, I have had similar experienced, primarily w/my aunt whom nada

loves to bash. When she's not bashing me or my brother she seems to

really enjoy bashing my aunt. Since my brother and I are not close to

her anymore, she's taken to bashing my aunt a lot this year. Finally

my aunt stood up to her in the fall and so nada went back to bashing

me. She always has to have a target to smear.

What I did w/nada is tell her that I didn't want a relationship w/her

based on her negative assertions about my aunt (I'm very close to my

aunt- or at least use to be). In the end, when she would bring up my

aunt, I would just counter what she said or say something like 'oops,

the water on the oven eye is boiling over. I gotta run.' Just tell

her you don't feel comfortable when she talks badly about your

brother b/c it puts you in the middle and you don't like being in the

middle. Then when she does, which she invariably will, put you in the

middle, just get off the phone quickly w/her. This is the advantage

of living far away. 'Oh I've just got to go pee like a race horse.'

Whatever. Make up any excuse to get off the phone quickly and she may

or may not get it but you at least won't have to hear it nor confront

a superfreak over violations of boundaries. You just won't subjugate

yourself to this kind of internal torture of loyalties. KWIM?

Kerrie

>

> Hi everyone, I've got a question for the group. My brother is

basically NC with our nada

> and will be completely NC soon. The thing is, my nada is

practically on a fact-finding

> mission on him and is also conducting a smear campaing about him.

I find myself in

> situations that I'm not totally sure how to deal with and would

like to know how you've

> handled it or would handle it.

>

> To make a long story short, I am tired of my nada telling ME about

my brother, when she

> doesn't know squat and is just trying to make him look bad and/or

find things out that he

> doesn't want her to know. If I call her on things I know to be

untrue, she can figure things

> out and will attempt to use what she's learned to do. . .whatever

it is she's doing to do this

> time. If I say nothing, I just tend to sit there and fester and

feel irritated.

>

> At this point, my goal is to remain in contact with nada and dad as

long as it doesn't cause

> me to suffer--so I'm looking for a kind of diplomatic way to

say, " I DON'T WANT TO

> DISCUSS HIM ANYMORE, SO DROP IT!!!!! "

>

> I'm thinking of a couple of routes. I could just change the

subject everytime. (I have an

> Uncle who is EXTREMELY good at this, but I get kind of too

irritated to be that creative). I

> could also just be honest and say something like I'm uncomfortable

talking about him with

> my parents since they're not on good terms.

>

> Anyone else have any ideas or similar situations????

>

> Trish

>

[Guest guest]

Sylvia, I think that if I decide to discuss this directly with my

nada that you may be right and I may have no diplomatic out--or no way

out that will avoid her getting angry.

It's true what you said about this interaction causing me to suffer.

But I guess as long as I'm making progress for myself, I don't mind.

I definitely do not want the interaction to make me weaker or worse in

some way. I think that may be part of my motivation for not going NC:

I want to learn to rethink these situations, get it into my head that

it's not my fault etc. I really do think it's helping me grow out of

some bad habits, not just for dealing with nada, but for dealing with

people in general. That said, I'm not sure she'll ever change. . .for

now, it doesn't matter.

Thanks for that clarifying idea.

Trish

> >

> > Hi everyone, I've got a question for the group. My brother is

> basically NC with our nada

> > and will be completely NC soon. The thing is, my nada is

> practically on a fact-finding

> > mission on him and is also conducting a smear campaing about him.

> I find myself in

> > situations that I'm not totally sure how to deal with and would

> like to know how you've

> > handled it or would handle it.

> >

> > To make a long story short, I am tired of my nada telling ME about

> my brother, when she

> > doesn't know squat and is just trying to make him look bad and/or

> find things out that he

> > doesn't want her to know. If I call her on things I know to be

> untrue, she can figure things

> > out and will attempt to use what she's learned to do. . .whatever

> it is she's doing to do this

> > time. If I say nothing, I just tend to sit there and fester and

> feel irritated.

> >

> > At this point, my goal is to remain in contact with nada and dad

> as long as it doesn't cause

> > me to suffer--so I'm looking for a kind of diplomatic way to

> say, " I DON'T WANT TO

> > DISCUSS HIM ANYMORE, SO DROP IT!!!!! "

> >

> > I'm thinking of a couple of routes. I could just change the

> subject everytime. (I have an

> > Uncle who is EXTREMELY good at this, but I get kind of too

> irritated to be that creative). I

> > could also just be honest and say something like I'm uncomfortable

> talking about him with

> > my parents since they're not on good terms.

> >

> > Anyone else have any ideas or similar situations????

> >

> > Trish

> >

>

[Guest guest]

, I have this image of myself standing up in a family gathering

when she says something about my brother like, " He says he won't

forgive us! For what? Ha! " I can totally immagine just laying in

about how awful it's been to be around her all this time. It would

mean going no-contact, and I'm just not ready yet--but that little

idea is there. . .maybe someday.

>

> Ive been the black sheep too, BP. And when my compassion for Yeti

> disappeared, I found that standing up to her and telling everyone in the

> family the conditions I was under when I did (whatever she was bitching

> about) was one of the best things I ever did. The best being going NC...

>

> I would suggest a direct approach. Diplomacy doesn't work with them, it

> gives them the fodder for the cognitive 'triumphs' that Sylvia

talked about.

> Venom works much better. Explain to (everyone else who is listening

to her)

> the exact circumstances, as far as you know them.

>

>

>

>

>

> Send instant messages to your online friends

http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

>

[Guest guest]

That is a wonderful thought. Perhaps you will really have the chance

to live it some day.

Sylvia

>

> , I have this image of myself standing up in a family gathering

> when she says something about my brother like, " He says he won't

> forgive us! For what? Ha! " I can totally immagine just laying in

> about how awful it's been to be around her all this time. It would

> mean going no-contact, and I'm just not ready yet--but that little

> idea is there. . .maybe someday.

>

......

[Guest guest]

Recovering.....

Me too. This is the main reason I am still no contact. If I were

to make contact, the rest of the foo would breathe a sigh of

relief...and think....ah, Sylvia has finally come to her senses.

How wonderful for us (that we don't have to examine ourselves!).

Sylvia

>

> Hi Trish, Kerrie, and All,

>

> I agree with all you've said about dealing with BPs while they're

smearing

> another FOO member. However, for those of us whose FOOs ENABLE,

SUPPORT

> and BELIEVE the BP against the target (me, in my FOO), they cannot

be

> enlisted, encouraged or trusted to assist in standing up to the

BP. I

> wish they would. It's never happened in my FOO. I expect that

they will

> never see or deal with the reality of the effects of our nada's Oz-

world

> on us, how she has divided us, targeted me and brainwashed them

against

> me. It'd be great if one or more of them would WAKE UP about

this, but I

> have to live as if they never will. That's MY reality and I'm

stickin' to

> it, as long as I have to.

>

> One Non-BP Recovering Man

>

......

[Guest guest]

Sylvia, it's interesting how sometimes I'll have an idea like that

just waiting around for a while and then, someday, it just comes out.

I've said some things to my nada that really suprized me, and that I

sometimes think I'd be too terrified to " out " her in front of the FOO,

but you never do know what can come out in the right situation.

That's why I think it's important to think about these things before

they come up.

Trish

> >

> > , I have this image of myself standing up in a family gathering

> > when she says something about my brother like, " He says he won't

> > forgive us! For what? Ha! " I can totally immagine just laying in

> > about how awful it's been to be around her all this time. It would

> > mean going no-contact, and I'm just not ready yet--but that little

> > idea is there. . .maybe someday.

> >

> .....

>

[Guest guest]

Marjorie, better late than never. Actually, I didn't have to even say

anything on my last visit. My nada only snuck in one underhanded

comment about my brother--but it was so dumb that I didn't even bother

to reply--and she didn't try again to suck us in. I think she knew

she wasn't going to get any validation from me or anyone else! It was

cool.

Oh, and I remember reading that part about starting with something

small in the boundaries--I read it too late though! My therapist was

like, " why do you let your mother decide if you have a relationship

with your father? " And so my first real boundary was saying I wanted

to spend time alone w/my dad or I would not visit.

Jeeeeees! She totally flipped, tortured everyone in the house. It

was like I was the other woman! YIPES. But I handled it pretty well

and it was SO satisfying to see her realize she couldn't get me like

that anymore. So sometimes starting big is ok too!

Trish

> > ... so I'm looking for a kind of diplomatic way to

> > say, " I DON'T WANT TO DISCUSS HIM ANYMORE, SO DROP IT!!!!! "

>

> What's wrong with exactly what you typed? (minus the ALL CAPS)

> " I don't want to discuss him anymore, so please drop it. "

>

> I think it's perfectly polite and needs no further explanation.

> And the please can be dropped if you have to say this more

> than once!

>

> They don't need to know why you don't want to talk about it.

> They simply need to respect your wishes and change the topic.

>

> Of course, if they don't respect your wishes, then you'll need

> to enforce your boundaries by leaving, hanging up, or whatever.

> That's where people usually have trouble. You need to enforce

> those boundaries or else they don't mean anything. It takes

> lots of practice. I think the books recommend working on those

> boundaries in small steps and working up to the bigger ones.

>

> I found that I made lots of changes and my mother never did.

> She just kept getting worse. So, I learned to judge the success

> of my interactions by my own actions (did I stand up for myself,

> did I stay calm, etc.) and not by hers.

>

> Be prepared for rages and such when you start setting up your

> boundaries. Be prepared to go completely " no contact " if it gets

> to a point where your own safety (mental or physical) is at stake.

> Always have an " exit strategy " (e.g., don't let a BP drive, drive

> your own car or take mass transit or a taxi).

>

> Hugs,

>

> Marjorie

> ahimsa@...

>

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