Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That HURT! I think being a parent is the hardest and most important job in the world. I give all the credit to anyone who tries to be a good parent. The thought of having children used to cross my mind, alot. Not anymore. My nada wore me out. it was like I had to raise her and was robbed of a large part of my childhood and life. I like kids. I just do not believe I have it in me anymore to fully take care of another human being. I'm 36 years old and not getting any younger. Often I think of how I would handle a child with no kind of upbring myself. I have no clue. I do not think it selfish not to want the responsibilty of a child. I want some of my life to be for me. None of it was till the last year, really. I think knowing I am not cut out for the most important job in the world is actually unselfish. I love an unborn child enough to not bring them into my life not able to make that commitment. This person is NOT a borderline, but however, over the years have made me feel badly that I wasn't married with children. That was not their motive, but the results were the same. Not everyone is the same and what works for one does not always work for the other. that is okay. you must respect others rights to choose to live their lives they way we want. I have told this person about shelling out unwanted advice to others. It makes someone feel less than. They also seemed to dwell on what nada has taken away from me and how things could have been different. GUESS WHAT? Crap happens to us all. Its called life and it is not a bowl of cherrries. I have to deal with the past but live for the here and now and plan for the future. That is the best any of us can do. I feel like this person is not dealing enough with their own pain from the past and dwelling on how others live or should live. I have mentioned 2 times I thought theropy would help, but I cant change them or force them to go. I said my peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 I Just think that is one of the rudest and most ignorant comments I have heard. I know lots of unselfish people who don't want children. My B-I-L and S-I-L both don't want children I have an uncle who doesn't want children, even some friends. This doesn't make any of these people including you a selfish person. It is like that sermon from Jesus not everybody is a hand or a foot. We all do not have the same purpose and calling in life, if we did that wouldn't be right. I have friends with no kids I have friends with 9 kids I love them all the same. I don't think you are selfish I tied my tubes because I didn't think I could take more than 2 so out of fairness to my children, husband, and myself I am all tied up. The Dr. just clipped me so it is reversible incase God forbid something were to happen to my children or if I were to change my mind which trust me I wont! But I made my peace with that and decided that even though it is reversible I will probably never have another regardless of what happens. So don't feel bad you are not selfish you just have a different plan and that is all. Love Lizzy > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That HURT! > I think being a parent is the hardest and most important job in the > world. I give all the credit to anyone who tries to be a good parent. > The thought of having children used to cross my mind, alot. Not > anymore. > > My nada wore me out. it was like I had to raise her and was robbed > of a large part of my childhood and life. I like kids. I just do not > believe I have it in me anymore to fully take care of another human > being. I'm 36 years old and not getting any younger. Often I think > of how I would handle a child with no kind of upbring myself. I have > no clue. I do not think it selfish not to want the responsibilty of > a child. I want some of my life to be for me. None of it was till > the last year, really. I think knowing I am not cut out for the most > important job in the world is actually unselfish. I love an unborn > child enough to not bring them into my life not able to make that > commitment. > > This person is NOT a borderline, but however, over the years have > made me feel badly that I wasn't married with children. That was not > their motive, but the results were the same. > Not everyone is the same and what works for one does not always work > for the other. that is okay. you must respect others rights to > choose to live their lives they way we want. > > I have told this person about shelling out unwanted advice to > others. It makes someone feel less than. They also seemed to dwell > on what nada has taken away from me and how things could have been > different. GUESS WHAT? Crap happens to us all. Its called life and > it is not a bowl of cherrries. I have to deal with the past but live > for the here and now and plan for the future. That is the best any > of us can do. > > I feel like this person is not dealing enough with their own pain > from the past and dwelling on how others live or should live. I have > mentioned 2 times I thought theropy would help, but I cant change > them or force them to go. I said my peace. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 I completely agree! I have always said -- even to my friend who has decided not to have children -- that people who decide NOT to be parents are to be admired. They are the ones who appreciate what a tough job it is. They know their limits, and they've chosen not to take it on. I applaud them. What's selfish is just having kids so they can be an accessory or exist to reflect your " wonderfulness " ..... I respect people who respect parenthood enough to opt out of it. It's not for sissies!! > > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That > HURT! > > I think being a parent is the hardest and most important job in > the > > world. I give all the credit to anyone who tries to be a good > parent. > > The thought of having children used to cross my mind, alot. Not > > anymore. > > > > My nada wore me out. it was like I had to raise her and was robbed > > of a large part of my childhood and life. I like kids. I just do > not > > believe I have it in me anymore to fully take care of another > human > > being. I'm 36 years old and not getting any younger. Often I think > > of how I would handle a child with no kind of upbring myself. I > have > > no clue. I do not think it selfish not to want the responsibilty > of > > a child. I want some of my life to be for me. None of it was till > > the last year, really. I think knowing I am not cut out for the > most > > important job in the world is actually unselfish. I love an unborn > > child enough to not bring them into my life not able to make that > > commitment. > > > > This person is NOT a borderline, but however, over the years have > > made me feel badly that I wasn't married with children. That was > not > > their motive, but the results were the same. > > Not everyone is the same and what works for one does not always > work > > for the other. that is okay. you must respect others rights to > > choose to live their lives they way we want. > > > > I have told this person about shelling out unwanted advice to > > others. It makes someone feel less than. They also seemed to dwell > > on what nada has taken away from me and how things could have been > > different. GUESS WHAT? Crap happens to us all. Its called life and > > it is not a bowl of cherrries. I have to deal with the past but > live > > for the here and now and plan for the future. That is the best any > > of us can do. > > > > I feel like this person is not dealing enough with their own pain > > from the past and dwelling on how others live or should live. I > have > > mentioned 2 times I thought theropy would help, but I cant change > > them or force them to go. I said my peace. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2006 Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 Your friend was, at best, insenstive. Add to the insensitivity is the fact that she does not seem to be aware that people are very complex, and that one category does not fit all. At worst, this is a passive aggressive statement. Since she is a friend, I hope you feel comfortable enough in the friendship to respectfully state how you disagree with her statement. Take care, Sylvia > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That HURT! > I think being a parent is the hardest and most important job in the > world. I give all the credit to anyone who tries to be a good parent. > The thought of having children used to cross my mind, alot. Not > anymore. > > My nada wore me out. it was like I had to raise her and was robbed > of a large part of my childhood and life. I like kids. I just do not > believe I have it in me anymore to fully take care of another human > being. I'm 36 years old and not getting any younger. Often I think > of how I would handle a child with no kind of upbring myself. I have > no clue. I do not think it selfish not to want the responsibilty of > a child. I want some of my life to be for me. None of it was till > the last year, really. I think knowing I am not cut out for the most > important job in the world is actually unselfish. I love an unborn > child enough to not bring them into my life not able to make that > commitment. > > This person is NOT a borderline, but however, over the years have > made me feel badly that I wasn't married with children. That was not > their motive, but the results were the same. > Not everyone is the same and what works for one does not always work > for the other. that is okay. you must respect others rights to > choose to live their lives they way we want. > > I have told this person about shelling out unwanted advice to > others. It makes someone feel less than. They also seemed to dwell > on what nada has taken away from me and how things could have been > different. GUESS WHAT? Crap happens to us all. Its called life and > it is not a bowl of cherrries. I have to deal with the past but live > for the here and now and plan for the future. That is the best any > of us can do. > > I feel like this person is not dealing enough with their own pain > from the past and dwelling on how others live or should live. I have > mentioned 2 times I thought theropy would help, but I cant change > them or force them to go. I said my peace. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 >> > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That HURT! Uuuugggghhh, I hate this! I hear it all the time too! Essentially, I know a lot of wonderful parents who do all kinds of nice generous things for their kids. And I know people without kids who volunteer in their communities and are very generous. But I came from a background, where like you say, I had to essentially raise my childish parents, and I had to do a lot of caretaking of my younger siblings. I used to say when I was in college that I didn't want to have kids because I'd been forced to raise my siblings and it was exhausting, dirty, tiring and I was just plain worn out. I love my siblings, and I loved being there for them, but it was such thankless work. I'd knock myself out and still have them say little things to me like " how come your hair looks like that? Can't you make it look better? " Well they were just kids, so what did I expect? Now as an adult I realize that even some really good parents have kids for essentially selfish reasons, because they love kids and want them in their lives, because they want to pass on their genes, because their church requires it. I don't mean to judge anyone's choices, but I think that this line that it's selfish not to have kids discounts that a lot of people have kids for their sakes, not for the children's sake. Also I guess I feel like it was really selfish of my parents to have kids when they had so many problems. It seems much kinder to me to make an honest assessment of your life and decide whether you can really be the kind of parent that your potential kids would deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I really do wish the character defect in human beings could so easily be discerned into the catagoris of who has kids and who does not. Wow would that really make my world so much more simplified. As it is, I can unequivocably attest that those who post on this message board can say being a parent does not make one less selfish. Otherwise we wouldn't have our issues w/our VERY SELFISH bp parents. People are selfish regardless of being called to the vocation of parenthood or not. Some of the least and most selfish people I've met are parents. Some of the least and most selfish people I've met were not parents. Its impossible to catagorize this affectively and honestly, I don't even think that's the point. If it were, then you'd be off scott free in dealing w/this surface issue like many have posted here on the topic of parenthood and whatnot. As it is, your friend is very selfish for continuing to push her views on you unsolicitated. I dare say here's another example of a person who is a parent and yet acts w/great selfishness and perhaps more than a bit self-righteousness as well. In that regard, you are put in a position to determine why you are holding onto this friendship if you have put your boundaries down several times w/her and she continues to violate them- regardless of being a borderline or not. Kerrie > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in a > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. That HURT! > I think being a parent is the hardest and most important job in the > world. I give all the credit to anyone who tries to be a good parent. > The thought of having children used to cross my mind, alot. Not > anymore. > > My nada wore me out. it was like I had to raise her and was robbed > of a large part of my childhood and life. I like kids. I just do not > believe I have it in me anymore to fully take care of another human > being. I'm 36 years old and not getting any younger. Often I think > of how I would handle a child with no kind of upbring myself. I have > no clue. I do not think it selfish not to want the responsibilty of > a child. I want some of my life to be for me. None of it was till > the last year, really. I think knowing I am not cut out for the most > important job in the world is actually unselfish. I love an unborn > child enough to not bring them into my life not able to make that > commitment. > > This person is NOT a borderline, but however, over the years have > made me feel badly that I wasn't married with children. That was not > their motive, but the results were the same. > Not everyone is the same and what works for one does not always work > for the other. that is okay. you must respect others rights to > choose to live their lives they way we want. > > I have told this person about shelling out unwanted advice to > others. It makes someone feel less than. They also seemed to dwell > on what nada has taken away from me and how things could have been > different. GUESS WHAT? Crap happens to us all. Its called life and > it is not a bowl of cherrries. I have to deal with the past but live > for the here and now and plan for the future. That is the best any > of us can do. > > I feel like this person is not dealing enough with their own pain > from the past and dwelling on how others live or should live. I have > mentioned 2 times I thought theropy would help, but I cant change > them or force them to go. I said my peace. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 I would consider the person who made that remark to be selfish or inconsiderate, at least if she knows how you feel when you hear it. Some people choose to have children for the most selfish or inapropriate reasons- they want someone to love (I think getting a dog is a better idea in this situation), or they want someone to love them, someone to take care of them when they get older, etc. Growing up and when I was 20 and thereabouts I did not want children at all and a lot of that probably had to do with how I was raised. I am still very cautious about the idea. If or when people ask me (I am a newlywed) I just say I'll see how I am doing in a few years. Sometimes I think I was born to take care of my (older) brother. I spent my whole life when I was growing up helping to take care of him and with the pressure that one day I will have to be his guardian and Nada expects such and such out of me. I always thought that was not fair that I had to take care of my big brother but he got treated great because he was oldest and her son and whatever. And because I am at a higher risk of having a special needs child myself, I would want to fully able and prepared for that situation. -Ata > > I love your response and I see some truth in it from the lady that > said it, . I just moved to Seattle from Dallas and they have a > saying there... " Thank you for not putting your map on my town. " For > someone to make such a remark is not considering the other person's > best interest at heart. > > Greg. > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in > a > > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. > > > > To which I would have replied, jealous? > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Ata, You raise a good point about people having kids so that someone will love them. I think that is something nada and I have gone round and round about over the years- why she had me. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she had me as I like me and I like my life. I don't resent being alive and I don't resent waking up in the morning to face another day of 'my life'. I am a happy person overall. The only thing is though, she has said several times 'you've never loved me'. Last time I had a pow-wow with her (which happens every 5 years or so and this last one was perhaps my last one as I don't care to keep talking to a brickwall anymore- have learned my lessons of life in that relationship and I'm moving on) she brought that up again- " You've never loved me. " And I asked her 'since when? Since I was born? Since I was two? Since I was four? Since I was eight and my dad died? Since I was a teenager? Since when?!?' And she responded even in childhood I never loved her and so I said 'Hmm, so are you saying since I was four or so I quit loving you?' and she said yes, it was somewhere around there (a little projection there as I distinctly recall one of my first pow-wows w/her when I was 23 and her finally admitting she quit loving me when I was four b/c she looked down and saw for the first time that I looked like my dad, whom she despises though he's been dead for 26 years). I said " well a child learns to love by first being loved. As a parent now myself I know that my job entails loving my child come rain or come shine. Perhaps the reason you didn't feel I loved you is because you don't love yourself and you never modeled for me what love is and b/c you did not give it to me first. Have you ever considered that? " That shut her up momentarily. I think I said it more for me than for her though- saying aloud and putting to words things I'd felt for years but could not articulate inlight of her insanity. I mean to say, there's scarcely a one of us on this board that has not at one point or another been totally speechless in the face of one their rages or hysterical fits. At this time she was not raging on me but totally hystrionic. Amazingly though I kept my sanity and my cool and my ability to put rational words on a completely irrational conversation. It was only after that conversation that I realized my own insanity- wasting words on a fool. I'm a Christian and it says a lot in the Bible about wasting words on fools in Proverbs. After I got off the phone, I realized 'never again.' I don't need to be heard by that woman who gave birth to me anymore. She is unreachable and it is like spitting in the wind and I for one do not like spitting on myself. I think it did prove to me though that I could keep my cool and calm demeanor even when she was losing it. I can't say I've ever done that before- been able to poke so unbelievably many holes in her twisted logic and stay true to a sense of what my truth is- vastly different than the truthes that dictate her life. I was proud of myself and yet at the same time realizing if I were to ever go down that road again I'd be a bit ashamed of myself for talking so sanely and trying to have a logical conversation w/someone whose certifiably nuts in my book. I'd be nuts too if I got into these kinds of conversations w/her ever again and I'm over it. Again, I don't need her validation or to be heard by her. What I needed, love mainly, I didn't get. Parts of me will always be broken by that first twisted experience of love. But the greater part of me knows that life nor love is stagnant nor does it happen in a vaccuum of childhood. It does not begin at one point and end at another. Rather it is constant and dynamic force in the universe- more than I'll ever fully understand in one life time. Somethings are eternal and I for one believe that the human heart is wired to seek out love and what is good and right and pure despite all the garbage in life. I think that is why I give myself the right and privelage and sheer joy to have children and see a new and vastly different kind of life through their eyes. " While the maker loves the arrow that shoots off into the future, he also loves the archer that holds the bow steady. " - paraphrasing Kahil Gibran's Prophet on the topic of parenting. Perhaps no words have ever been so beautifully written about the nature of parenthood than in the book, The Prophet. I am no longer the arrow as much as I'm the archer. I know I am loved and in so being, have an abundance of love to give to my children- more than I would've ever dreamed possible if you knew me a mere 5 or 6 years ago and certainly more than I ever imagined 10-15 years ago. But I do feel it is wrong to have children to have someone to love you b/c you can't or refuse to love yourself. That is wrong, wrong, wrong in my book. Children should not have a duty when they enter this earth- be that to save a sinking marriage or to bolster the mother's self esteem issues. I really loved the saying a priest friend told me about watching dh and I and our oldest son when he was an infant = what he learned about the nature of love by watching our family over a weekend. He said 'Babies don't do anything. They're helpless and completely incapable of doing anything productive. And yet everyone loves them and googles over them and dotes on them. It is the nature of the human race to love a baby. By being loved as infants, we all learn how to love as we grow into adulthood. We learn how to love by first being loved.' The borderline mother does not even know how to love the most basic of human beings like the infant as case studies have shown they are excessively rough w/them and do not comprehend the nature of a baby's fragility and delicacy. If these women could bring a child into the world and that child can grow to maturity as an adult outside of the parental home like most all of you here, I am undoubtably sure that anyone on this board would make a better parent than a borderline. The choice to do so though is very personal and very individual and I would never dream of saying this is a selfish or selfless motivation that would cause you to create or abstain from the creation of life. I do not know how to read another's heart- that much I have learned. In these matters, I believe charity is in order. And yet w/being raised in a bp home, if 'charity begins at home', many of us also missed that boat. But I do believe the original poster's 'friend' is not a very charitable person. Kerrie > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that in > > a > > > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. > > > > > > To which I would have replied, jealous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Kerrie, Beautifully said, great retorts to your nada, and it wouldn't hurt me to read Proverbs again. One Non-BP Recovering Man --- Kerrie wrote: > Ata, > You raise a good point about people having kids so that someone will > love them. I think that is something nada and I have gone round and > round about over the years- why she had me. Don't get me wrong, I'm > glad she had me as I like me and I like my life. I don't resent being > alive and I don't resent waking up in the morning to face another day > of 'my life'. I am a happy person overall. The only thing is though, > she has said several times 'you've never loved me'. Last time I had > a pow-wow with her (which happens every 5 years or so and this last > one was perhaps my last one as I don't care to keep talking to a > brickwall anymore- have learned my lessons of life in that > relationship and I'm moving on) she brought that up again- " You've > never loved me. " And I asked her 'since when? Since I was born? Since > I was two? Since I was four? Since I was eight and my dad died? Since > I was a teenager? Since when?!?' And she responded even in childhood > I never loved her and so I said 'Hmm, so are you saying since I was > four or so I quit loving you?' and she said yes, it was somewhere > around there (a little projection there as I distinctly recall one of > my first pow-wows w/her when I was 23 and her finally admitting she > quit loving me when I was four b/c she looked down and saw for the > first time that I looked like my dad, whom she despises though he's > been dead for 26 years). I said " well a child learns to love by first > being loved. As a parent now myself I know that my job entails loving > my child come rain or come shine. Perhaps the reason you didn't feel > I loved you is because you don't love yourself and you never modeled > for me what love is and b/c you did not give it to me first. Have you > ever considered that? " That shut her up momentarily. I think I said > it more for me than for her though- saying aloud and putting to words > things I'd felt for years but could not articulate inlight of her > insanity. I mean to say, there's scarcely a one of us on this board > that has not at one point or another been totally speechless in the > face of one their rages or hysterical fits. At this time she was not > raging on me but totally hystrionic. Amazingly though I kept my > sanity and my cool and my ability to put rational words on a > completely irrational conversation. It was only after that > conversation that I realized my own insanity- wasting words on a > fool. I'm a Christian and it says a lot in the Bible about wasting > words on fools in Proverbs. After I got off the phone, I > realized 'never again.' I don't need to be heard by that woman who > gave birth to me anymore. She is unreachable and it is like spitting > in the wind and I for one do not like spitting on myself. I think it > did prove to me though that I could keep my cool and calm demeanor > even when she was losing it. I can't say I've ever done that before- > been able to poke so unbelievably many holes in her twisted logic and > stay true to a sense of what my truth is- vastly different than the > truthes that dictate her life. I was proud of myself and yet at the > same time realizing if I were to ever go down that road again I'd be > a bit ashamed of myself for talking so sanely and trying to have a > logical conversation w/someone whose certifiably nuts in my book. I'd > be nuts too if I got into these kinds of conversations w/her ever > again and I'm over it. Again, I don't need her validation or to be > heard by her. What I needed, love mainly, I didn't get. Parts of me > will always be broken by that first twisted experience of love. But > the greater part of me knows that life nor love is stagnant nor does > it happen in a vaccuum of childhood. It does not begin at one point > and end at another. Rather it is constant and dynamic force in the > universe- more than I'll ever fully understand in one life time. > Somethings are eternal and I for one believe that the human heart is > wired to seek out love and what is good and right and pure despite > all the garbage in life. I think that is why I give myself the right > and privelage and sheer joy to have children and see a new and vastly > different kind of life through their eyes. " While the maker loves the > arrow that shoots off into the future, he also loves the archer that > holds the bow steady. " - paraphrasing Kahil Gibran's Prophet on the > topic of parenting. Perhaps no words have ever been so beautifully > written about the nature of parenthood than in the book, The Prophet. > I am no longer the arrow as much as I'm the archer. I know I am loved > and in so being, have an abundance of love to give to my children- > more than I would've ever dreamed possible if you knew me a mere 5 or > 6 years ago and certainly more than I ever imagined 10-15 years ago. > > But I do feel it is wrong to have children to have someone to love > you b/c you can't or refuse to love yourself. That is wrong, wrong, > wrong in my book. Children should not have a duty when they enter > this earth- be that to save a sinking marriage or to bolster the > mother's self esteem issues. I really loved the saying a priest > friend told me about watching dh and I and our oldest son when he was > an infant = what he learned about the nature of love by watching our > family over a weekend. He said 'Babies don't do anything. They're > helpless and completely incapable of doing anything productive. And > yet everyone loves them and googles over them and dotes on them. It > is the nature of the human race to love a baby. By being loved as > infants, we all learn how to love as we grow into adulthood. We learn > how to love by first being loved.' The borderline mother does not > even know how to love the most basic of human beings like the infant > as case studies have shown they are excessively rough w/them and do > not comprehend the nature of a baby's fragility and delicacy. If > these women could bring a child into the world and that child can > grow to maturity as an adult outside of the parental home like most > all of you here, I am undoubtably sure that anyone on this board > would make a better parent than a borderline. The choice to do so > though is very personal and very individual and I would never dream > of saying this is a selfish or selfless motivation that would cause > you to create or abstain from the creation of life. I do not know how > to read another's heart- that much I have learned. In these matters, > I believe charity is in order. And yet w/being raised in a bp home, > if 'charity begins at home', many of us also missed that boat. But I > do believe the original poster's 'friend' is not a very charitable > person. > Kerrie > > > > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that > in > > > a > > > > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. > > > > > > > > To which I would have replied, jealous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Non, Funnily enough, I didn't know much about Proverbs until last fall after the hurricane evacuation and me being back at my house after the much worse hurricane of my FOO. Every time I'd be on the fence about whether or not to call them or to try to connect w/them while I will still so much scrambled eggs inside, I'd pray on the matter and open the Bible and ask God to direct me to the words I needed to hear- for my own 'individual' soul. Without fail, time and time again I would turn to one of those Proverbs about how words of the wise are wasted on the foolish. One that sticks out is: " When the wise man keeps company with the fool it does not matter if they laugh or cry, there will be no peace. " Man did that hit me squarely in the eyes. I kind of laughed to myself and had my faith affirmed. Not that I'm trying to get all religified here. Only that I think God's got a sense of humor. I like how my bestfriend put it- " I know God's got a sense of humor. I'm his favorite little joke. " Anyway, thanks NON BP Man! Glad to see you piped in on Greg's post. I knew you would and was responding when I think you were too:p Too funny! Kerrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that > > in > > > > a > > > > > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. > > > > > > > > > > To which I would have replied, jealous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2006 Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 that reminds me of something from one of child development classes. Premature babies also tend to have more problems in life. One of the reasons is that they are harder to bond with. Premies are more difficult babies than a typical full time, normal birth weight baby would be. They are more likely to just cry and not be comforted, they may take longer to smile and bond and so forth. So a lot of new mothers might find that frustrating and be less likely to fully meet the needs of their premies and therefore miss out on some of that bonding. I found that interesting. I was a premie. quite a bit early actually (my mom smoked and had rough pregnancies with both my brother and myself). And I was a skinny baby- 4 pounds five onces and 21 inches long. I have long since remedied the skinny part. But I know that when I was an infant my brother was having a lot of health problems- family was going through a big move as a result of the farm crisis of 82 (I was born in 83- my father was a cattleman), etc. I have no way of knowing anything of course, especially not the time before I can remember. But I find it interesting food for thought and pure speculation. Kids are such hard work right from that start- I don't blame anyone who passes. -Ata > > Kerrie, > > Beautifully said, great retorts to your nada, and it wouldn't hurt me to > read Proverbs again. > > One Non-BP Recovering Man > > > --- Kerrie <lonewolfe30@... <lonewolfe30%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > Ata, > > You raise a good point about people having kids so that someone will > > love them. I think that is something nada and I have gone round and > > round about over the years- why she had me. Don't get me wrong, I'm > > glad she had me as I like me and I like my life. I don't resent being > > alive and I don't resent waking up in the morning to face another day > > of 'my life'. I am a happy person overall. The only thing is though, > > she has said several times 'you've never loved me'. Last time I had > > a pow-wow with her (which happens every 5 years or so and this last > > one was perhaps my last one as I don't care to keep talking to a > > brickwall anymore- have learned my lessons of life in that > > relationship and I'm moving on) she brought that up again- " You've > > never loved me. " And I asked her 'since when? Since I was born? Since > > I was two? Since I was four? Since I was eight and my dad died? Since > > I was a teenager? Since when?!?' And she responded even in childhood > > I never loved her and so I said 'Hmm, so are you saying since I was > > four or so I quit loving you?' and she said yes, it was somewhere > > around there (a little projection there as I distinctly recall one of > > my first pow-wows w/her when I was 23 and her finally admitting she > > quit loving me when I was four b/c she looked down and saw for the > > first time that I looked like my dad, whom she despises though he's > > been dead for 26 years). I said " well a child learns to love by first > > being loved. As a parent now myself I know that my job entails loving > > my child come rain or come shine. Perhaps the reason you didn't feel > > I loved you is because you don't love yourself and you never modeled > > for me what love is and b/c you did not give it to me first. Have you > > ever considered that? " That shut her up momentarily. I think I said > > it more for me than for her though- saying aloud and putting to words > > things I'd felt for years but could not articulate inlight of her > > insanity. I mean to say, there's scarcely a one of us on this board > > that has not at one point or another been totally speechless in the > > face of one their rages or hysterical fits. At this time she was not > > raging on me but totally hystrionic. Amazingly though I kept my > > sanity and my cool and my ability to put rational words on a > > completely irrational conversation. It was only after that > > conversation that I realized my own insanity- wasting words on a > > fool. I'm a Christian and it says a lot in the Bible about wasting > > words on fools in Proverbs. After I got off the phone, I > > realized 'never again.' I don't need to be heard by that woman who > > gave birth to me anymore. She is unreachable and it is like spitting > > in the wind and I for one do not like spitting on myself. I think it > > did prove to me though that I could keep my cool and calm demeanor > > even when she was losing it. I can't say I've ever done that before- > > been able to poke so unbelievably many holes in her twisted logic and > > stay true to a sense of what my truth is- vastly different than the > > truthes that dictate her life. I was proud of myself and yet at the > > same time realizing if I were to ever go down that road again I'd be > > a bit ashamed of myself for talking so sanely and trying to have a > > logical conversation w/someone whose certifiably nuts in my book. I'd > > be nuts too if I got into these kinds of conversations w/her ever > > again and I'm over it. Again, I don't need her validation or to be > > heard by her. What I needed, love mainly, I didn't get. Parts of me > > will always be broken by that first twisted experience of love. But > > the greater part of me knows that life nor love is stagnant nor does > > it happen in a vaccuum of childhood. It does not begin at one point > > and end at another. Rather it is constant and dynamic force in the > > universe- more than I'll ever fully understand in one life time. > > Somethings are eternal and I for one believe that the human heart is > > wired to seek out love and what is good and right and pure despite > > all the garbage in life. I think that is why I give myself the right > > and privelage and sheer joy to have children and see a new and vastly > > different kind of life through their eyes. " While the maker loves the > > arrow that shoots off into the future, he also loves the archer that > > holds the bow steady. " - paraphrasing Kahil Gibran's Prophet on the > > topic of parenting. Perhaps no words have ever been so beautifully > > written about the nature of parenthood than in the book, The Prophet. > > I am no longer the arrow as much as I'm the archer. I know I am loved > > and in so being, have an abundance of love to give to my children- > > more than I would've ever dreamed possible if you knew me a mere 5 or > > 6 years ago and certainly more than I ever imagined 10-15 years ago. > > > > But I do feel it is wrong to have children to have someone to love > > you b/c you can't or refuse to love yourself. That is wrong, wrong, > > wrong in my book. Children should not have a duty when they enter > > this earth- be that to save a sinking marriage or to bolster the > > mother's self esteem issues. I really loved the saying a priest > > friend told me about watching dh and I and our oldest son when he was > > an infant = what he learned about the nature of love by watching our > > family over a weekend. He said 'Babies don't do anything. They're > > helpless and completely incapable of doing anything productive. And > > yet everyone loves them and googles over them and dotes on them. It > > is the nature of the human race to love a baby. By being loved as > > infants, we all learn how to love as we grow into adulthood. We learn > > how to love by first being loved.' The borderline mother does not > > even know how to love the most basic of human beings like the infant > > as case studies have shown they are excessively rough w/them and do > > not comprehend the nature of a baby's fragility and delicacy. If > > these women could bring a child into the world and that child can > > grow to maturity as an adult outside of the parental home like most > > all of you here, I am undoubtably sure that anyone on this board > > would make a better parent than a borderline. The choice to do so > > though is very personal and very individual and I would never dream > > of saying this is a selfish or selfless motivation that would cause > > you to create or abstain from the creation of life. I do not know how > > to read another's heart- that much I have learned. In these matters, > > I believe charity is in order. And yet w/being raised in a bp home, > > if 'charity begins at home', many of us also missed that boat. But I > > do believe the original poster's 'friend' is not a very charitable > > person. > > Kerrie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A person in my life, without mentioning names, told me that > > in > > > > a > > > > > > way she believes only selfish people do not have children. > > > > > > > > > > To which I would have replied, jealous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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