Re: She called Again after NC rule put in place!!

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

You don't have anything to be ashamed of or to apologize for. Your

feelings are very understandable. Our nadas can sometimes get very

creative in testing and defying our boundaries. And of course they

know what buttons to push - they have been doing that our whole

lives. You are not stupid for feelig the way you do. I think it

was who has said that going no contact is such an unnatural

thing, and it causes us such distress because of that. However, it

is often the only thing we can do to protect ourselves.

Nadas will test and defy our boundaries. I am NC for almost 3

years, and I can count on my nada calling me at least once a year

and using some critical event to try to get me to come back to the

foo.

I have had fantasies of my nada's death for as long as I can

remember. It sometimes seems that we feel that only death can

really keep nada away from us. You are not a bad person for these

thoughts - it is a very normal response to the stress you are

dealing with.

I hope you will be soon feeling better about all of this,

Sylvia

>

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her

never to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message

(at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast cancer

surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way that she says that

is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I am

having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel

that way about anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks.

I realized from a post (I apologize I don't remember whom it was

from) about grieving the loss of the fantasy parents. I know that

is what I am doing and she can never respect any boundry that I

set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above. God,

I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I

apologize for such an angry post.

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Greg,

You have every right to be angry, Greg. As for the guilt, well, Nada's

programmed that into us a long time ago...

What we KO's struggle with is the FOG.

Fog means:

Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear of speaking

your mind, fear of thinking your own private thoughts! It's sad to think that

this fear can and has kept us trapped in the BPD's world.

Obligation, we're raised to believe that we owe them. That they being the

parent means we are obligated to deal with whatever they had out. Whether it's

the, snotty hurtful behavior, the lies (hey, we can't question those now can

we!) or their existence ! We are obligated to them because they gave birth to

us!? We find ourselves dropping every thing for them, and until we are clued in

to BPD, we have no idea how jumped up this really is!

and the Guilt! Holy crow was my Nada good with this one! We were not allowed

to complain of our treatment by her because, like above, she gave birth to us.

It got to the point where I felt awful for even thinking of doing something

like a small vacation with my girls because it might hurt Nada's

feelings...Guilt from just THINKING about it!

This fog is some serious controlling stuff!

Two of the books on the list that I sent to you cover this really well.

Emotional Blackmail starts it out and Understanding the Borderline Mother

takes it further...Must reads...

Greg, Nada's live in a very small place in their mind to my way of

thinking...with just enough room for me to assist her. I was an extra arm or

leg, if you will. I was not a person with interests of my own, thoughts of my

own, feelings of my own. ( that I was a person was as foreign to her as space

walking is to me!)

When I reached a place within me in understanding what BPD really is and it's

effects on not just me but my whole family, I did some serious changes...

When she , and others she could pull into her dramatics, continued to call me,

I got caller Id set up again so I would know who it was Before I picked up the

phone.

Then I got an answering machine to field the crazy foggy calls, and

eventually, I just blocked her number so it wouldn't even ring in.( I said NC, I

meant it! lol) It took some time before things dropped of, but I was usually

deep into another book concerning BPD and found that the family fog began to

clear.

Read all you can about this, educating yourself is like putting up an

invisible shield.

My thoughts are with ya fella!

K.

hfred@...> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her never to contact me

again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is

going in for more breast cancer surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way

that she says that is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I

am having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel that way

about anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks. I realized from a post

(I apologize I don't remember whom it was from) about grieving the loss of the

fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing and she can never respect any

boundry that I set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above.

God, I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I apologize for

such an angry post.

Greg.

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

, thanks so much for this post! Just reading it makes me feel stronger and

more empowered for the day. I'm almost done with SWOE and will read

Understanding the Borderline Mother next...

Just getting educated about BPD, and realizing how common all the experiences of

KOs have been to my own, goes such a long way in being able to detach and

de-personalize from the daily rollercoaster of BP behavior and is really helping

to remove that sense of shame. You described the FOG so perfectly!

And Greg, stay strong and don't let Nada make you feel guilty for being true to

yourself! That's exactly her intention. I think Caller ID must've been

invented by a KO....

Thanks again,

Shana

Re: She called Again after NC rule put in place!!

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Hey Greg,

>

> You have every right to be angry, Greg. As for the guilt,

> well, Nada's programmed that into us a long time ago...

> What we KO's struggle with is the FOG.

> Fog means:

> Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear

> of speaking your mind, fear of thinking your own private

> thoughts! It's sad to think that this fear can and has kept us

> trapped in the BPD's world.

>

> Obligation, we're raised to believe that we owe them. That

> they being the parent means we are obligated to deal with

> whatever they had out. Whether it's the, snotty hurtful

> behavior, the lies (hey, we can't question those now can we!) or

> their existence ! We are obligated to them because they gave

> birth to us!? We find ourselves dropping every thing for them,

> and until we are clued in to BPD, we have no idea how jumped up

> this really is!

>

> and the Guilt! Holy crow was my Nada good with this one! We

> were not allowed to complain of our treatment by her because,

> like above, she gave birth to us. It got to the point where I

> felt awful for even thinking of doing something like a small

> vacation with my girls because it might hurt Nada's

> feelings...Guilt from just THINKING about it!

> This fog is some serious controlling stuff!

> Two of the books on the list that I sent to you cover this

> really well.

> Emotional Blackmail starts it out and Understanding the

> Borderline Mother takes it further...Must reads...

>

> Greg, Nada's live in a very small place in their mind to my

> way of thinking...with just enough room for me to assist her. I

> was an extra arm or leg, if you will. I was not a person with

> interests of my own, thoughts of my own, feelings of my own. (

> that I was a person was as foreign to her as space walking is to me!)

> When I reached a place within me in understanding what BPD

> really is and it's effects on not just me but my whole family, I

> did some serious changes...

> When she , and others she could pull into her dramatics,

> continued to call me, I got caller Id set up again so I would

> know who it was Before I picked up the phone.

> Then I got an answering machine to field the crazy foggy

> calls, and eventually, I just blocked her number so it wouldn't

> even ring in.( I said NC, I meant it! lol) It took some time

> before things dropped of, but I was usually deep into another

> book concerning BPD and found that the family fog began to clear.

>

> Read all you can about this, educating yourself is like

> putting up an invisible shield.

> My thoughts are with ya fella!

> K.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> hfred@...> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her

> never to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message

> (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast

> cancer surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way that she

> says that is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her

> that I am having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to

> think or feel that way about anyone. It has been so hard these

> last two weeks. I realized from a post (I apologize I don't

> remember whom it was from) about grieving the loss of the

> fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing and she can

> never respect any boundry that I set. OH, great...here comes the

> shame from writing the above. God, I am so stupid, stupid,

> stupid for letting her get to me! I apologize for such an angry

> post.

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

> Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Sylvia. Amazingly enough, that tiredness that I was

experiencing is gone this morning, and I do feel a little better and

stronger. It really is an unnatural act to cut ties with a parent,

but very necessary in certain circumstances. I feel like I have

been spit out of the tornado that was spinning around in my

brain/heart for the last couple of weeks. Good for you for 3 years

of NC with your Nada. Are those uninvited calls when she tried to

bait you back? If so, how do you handle them? I'm just not going

to return her call. I know she is going to call again soon. Thank

God for caller ID. After reading your post, I realized how much

shame I have about my family that I turn on myself, a forced-learned

behavior.

Take Good Care,

Greg.

> >

> > Hello Everyone,

> >

> > I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her

> never to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message

> (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast cancer

> surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way that she says that

> is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I am

> having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel

> that way about anyone. It has been so hard these last two

weeks.

> I realized from a post (I apologize I don't remember whom it was

> from) about grieving the loss of the fantasy parents. I know that

> is what I am doing and she can never respect any boundry that I

> set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above.

God,

> I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I

> apologize for such an angry post.

> >

> > Greg.

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

> Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

The tornado analogy is a good one! Congratulations for giving

yourself permission to live YOUR own life -- that there's no magic

in " family " nor is there permission to mistreat you.

All you need to do is redefine " family " as being those people who

are interested in a mutually respectful relationship with you, and

that nurtures your God-given gifts and passions. If some of them

are blood relatives, fine. If not, well, that's the way it goes. I

guarantee the sun will still come up every morning.

kyla

> > >

> > > Hello Everyone,

> > >

> > > I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her

> > never to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a

message

> > (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast

cancer

> > surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way that she says

that

> > is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I am

> > having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or

feel

> > that way about anyone. It has been so hard these last two

> weeks.

> > I realized from a post (I apologize I don't remember whom it was

> > from) about grieving the loss of the fantasy parents. I know

that

> > is what I am doing and she can never respect any boundry that I

> > set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above.

> God,

> > I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I

> > apologize for such an angry post.

> > >

> > > Greg.

> > >

> > >

> > > ---------------------------------

> > > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone

calls.

> > Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, , for your very insightful comments. It's like being raised in a

cult. I agree with and have experienced very similar things that you described

about the OWE them forever just for being born and having to be an appendage

instead of a person. For over 30 years my nada kept telling me and anyone who

would listen, how I almost killed her when I was born. Well, two years ago I

told her to stop bringing up my birth if she was going to put it in that

context. Then a year ago May she had surgery to lift her bladder. Of course

she blamed it on my birth and even sent me a 7 page medical transcript of my

birth. She must not have read it, because I called her back and told her that

it said that she had a D & C, not blood transfusions, passed out from pain because

their was no anesthesia - there was as soon as she was admitted, and she didn't

go into cardiac arrest. She said that I must be misreading it and she had to

go. I wasn't going to let this one go....so I

asked her to get her copy (which she said she couldn't find [i'm sure it was

sent to Kinko's and each page enlarged by 500% and pasted on the refridgerator]

and I waited on the phone for her to get her copy. We went through it

line-by-line, fact-by-fact. Then she said that she never said any of those

things, but either way, don't feel guilty about what I went through, and hung

up. NUTS!

You wrote:

Fog means:

Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear of speaking your

mind, fear of thinking your own private thoughts! It's sad to think that this

fear can and has kept us trapped in the BPD's world.

But the real kicker to me, , is that their never was love or any

acceptance. So it really is getting rid of this emotional vampire, freeing

myself, and the grief is about not having REAL parents/losing my fantasy of my

parents/my own delusion.

I definitely have to get those books ASAP. Thank you for your insightful

words and thoughts.

Take good care,

Greg.

catfile wrote:

Hey Greg,

You have every right to be angry, Greg. As for the guilt, well, Nada's

programmed that into us a long time ago...

What we KO's struggle with is the FOG.

Fog means:

Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear of speaking your

mind, fear of thinking your own private thoughts! It's sad to think that this

fear can and has kept us trapped in the BPD's world.

Obligation, we're raised to believe that we owe them. That they being the parent

means we are obligated to deal with whatever they had out. Whether it's the,

snotty hurtful behavior, the lies (hey, we can't question those now can we!) or

their existence ! We are obligated to them because they gave birth to us!? We

find ourselves dropping every thing for them, and until we are clued in to BPD,

we have no idea how jumped up this really is!

and the Guilt! Holy crow was my Nada good with this one! We were not allowed to

complain of our treatment by her because, like above, she gave birth to us. It

got to the point where I felt awful for even thinking of doing something like a

small vacation with my girls because it might hurt Nada's feelings...Guilt from

just THINKING about it!

This fog is some serious controlling stuff!

Two of the books on the list that I sent to you cover this really well.

Emotional Blackmail starts it out and Understanding the Borderline Mother takes

it further...Must reads...

Greg, Nada's live in a very small place in their mind to my way of

thinking...with just enough room for me to assist her. I was an extra arm or

leg, if you will. I was not a person with interests of my own, thoughts of my

own, feelings of my own. ( that I was a person was as foreign to her as space

walking is to me!)

When I reached a place within me in understanding what BPD really is and it's

effects on not just me but my whole family, I did some serious changes...

When she , and others she could pull into her dramatics, continued to call me, I

got caller Id set up again so I would know who it was Before I picked up the

phone.

Then I got an answering machine to field the crazy foggy calls, and eventually,

I just blocked her number so it wouldn't even ring in.( I said NC, I meant it!

lol) It took some time before things dropped of, but I was usually deep into

another book concerning BPD and found that the family fog began to clear.

Read all you can about this, educating yourself is like putting up an invisible

shield.

My thoughts are with ya fella!

K.

hfred@...> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her never to contact me

again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is

going in for more breast cancer surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way

that she says that is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I

am having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel that way

about anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks. I realized from a post

(I apologize I don't remember whom it was from) about grieving the loss of the

fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing and she can never respect any

boundry that I set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above.

God, I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I apologize for

such an angry post.

Greg.

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

Good Grief, I could have written what you wrote about her comments about birth

and doctors files! lol Nada told me that she went blind for 6 weeks because of

me while she was pregnant.

It's strange, when I look back, to see that I have always known I wasn't

really loved by my Nada. But the attention I did get from her was better than

none at all, from a child's point of view. It was on my 40th birthday when I

confronted Nada concerning my inheritance,(she was going to try and get me to

lose what my dad had left me) when she struck out at me and said that she had

never wanted me, and always resented me and has hated me my whole life. She

stood there with this smug, expecting look on her face, wanting to see my

pain...and I looked at her and said, " If your going for shock value, you fail

mother. I've always known you didn't love me. "

LOL it was like watching the winds escape a full sail!

I walked out of her house and just never went back.

On my journey, I came to see that I had this dream family that my hopes

supported.

As I learned about BPD, one by one the hopes gave way and eventually the dream

family died. It was painful but I reminded myself that a sharp knife cuts the

cleanest, and reality is just like that sharp knife. I like where I am at now,

the fog never rolls in thick and obscuring anymore, I'm standing out in the

sunlight and it feels great!

I feel sorry for my family, but not enough to join them. If they want me in

their lives, they will have to join me out here!

Warm thoughts,

K.

G wrote:

Thanks, , for your very insightful comments. It's like being

raised in a cult. I agree with and have experienced very similar things that you

described about the OWE them forever just for being born and having to be an

appendage instead of a person. For over 30 years my nada kept telling me and

anyone who would listen, how I almost killed her when I was born. Well, two

years ago I told her to stop bringing up my birth if she was going to put it in

that context. Then a year ago May she had surgery to lift her bladder. Of course

she blamed it on my birth and even sent me a 7 page medical transcript of my

birth. She must not have read it, because I called her back and told her that it

said that she had a D & C, not blood transfusions, passed out from pain because

their was no anesthesia - there was as soon as she was admitted, and she didn't

go into cardiac arrest. She said that I must be misreading it and she had to go.

I wasn't going to let this one go....so I

asked her to get her copy (which she said she couldn't find [i'm sure it was

sent to Kinko's and each page enlarged by 500% and pasted on the refridgerator]

and I waited on the phone for her to get her copy. We went through it

line-by-line, fact-by-fact. Then she said that she never said any of those

things, but either way, don't feel guilty about what I went through, and hung

up. NUTS!

You wrote:

Fog means:

Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear of speaking your

mind, fear of thinking your own private thoughts! It's sad to think that this

fear can and has kept us trapped in the BPD's world.

But the real kicker to me, , is that their never was love or any

acceptance. So it really is getting rid of this emotional vampire, freeing

myself, and the grief is about not having REAL parents/losing my fantasy of my

parents/my own delusion.

I definitely have to get those books ASAP. Thank you for your insightful words

and thoughts.

Take good care,

Greg.

catfile wrote:

Hey Greg,

You have every right to be angry, Greg. As for the guilt, well, Nada's

programmed that into us a long time ago...

What we KO's struggle with is the FOG.

Fog means:

Fear, fear of losing their love, fear of upsetting them, fear of speaking your

mind, fear of thinking your own private thoughts! It's sad to think that this

fear can and has kept us trapped in the BPD's world.

Obligation, we're raised to believe that we owe them. That they being the parent

means we are obligated to deal with whatever they had out. Whether it's the,

snotty hurtful behavior, the lies (hey, we can't question those now can we!) or

their existence ! We are obligated to them because they gave birth to us!? We

find ourselves dropping every thing for them, and until we are clued in to BPD,

we have no idea how jumped up this really is!

and the Guilt! Holy crow was my Nada good with this one! We were not allowed to

complain of our treatment by her because, like above, she gave birth to us. It

got to the point where I felt awful for even thinking of doing something like a

small vacation with my girls because it might hurt Nada's feelings...Guilt from

just THINKING about it!

This fog is some serious controlling stuff!

Two of the books on the list that I sent to you cover this really well.

Emotional Blackmail starts it out and Understanding the Borderline Mother takes

it further...Must reads...

Greg, Nada's live in a very small place in their mind to my way of

thinking...with just enough room for me to assist her. I was an extra arm or

leg, if you will. I was not a person with interests of my own, thoughts of my

own, feelings of my own. ( that I was a person was as foreign to her as space

walking is to me!)

When I reached a place within me in understanding what BPD really is and it's

effects on not just me but my whole family, I did some serious changes...

When she , and others she could pull into her dramatics, continued to call me, I

got caller Id set up again so I would know who it was Before I picked up the

phone.

Then I got an answering machine to field the crazy foggy calls, and eventually,

I just blocked her number so it wouldn't even ring in.( I said NC, I meant it!

lol) It took some time before things dropped of, but I was usually deep into

another book concerning BPD and found that the family fog began to clear.

Read all you can about this, educating yourself is like putting up an invisible

shield.

My thoughts are with ya fella!

K.

hfred@...> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her never to contact me

again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message (at 2:14 a.m. my time) that she is

going in for more breast cancer surgery today and that she " loves me. " The way

that she says that is ONE HUGE trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I

am having fantasies of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel that way

about anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks. I realized from a post

(I apologize I don't remember whom it was from) about grieving the loss of the

fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing and she can never respect any

boundry that I set. OH, great...here comes the shame from writing the above.

God, I am so stupid, stupid, stupid for letting her get to me! I apologize for

such an angry post.

Greg.

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, the birth story. All my life I've heard the story of my

birth. Of how nada was so drugged up and how everyone but her got to

see me and how mad she was at the doctors and resentful she was of my

dad in being able to see and hold me first. I've never heard her tell

the story of the day I was born w/o utter anger and rage she still

feeds for the injustice served to her. Never mind that I was born.

Never mind that you have the rest of your life to bond w/the child.

Never mind its suppose to be one of the most joyous occassions in a

mother's life. Nope, pure rage. That's all a borderline knows how to

feel- anger. And in the process, they make everyone around them angry

too.

A couple of years ago when I went nc for a month or so and she called

right on my b-day and I didn't answer but called back then next day I

made her tell me the story of my birth and I made her work through

the anger and get to how she felt hope and love for me when she did

first hold me. It was one of those moments I pierced beyond her

mental illness and got to see a glimpse of her soul, the better part

that gets killed slowly w/each passing year. I'm glad I did that for

my own sake- just b/c it was the first birthday I had after I became

a mother and believe me, my first son's birth experience was anything

but a walk in the park and it wasn't what I expected, filled w/trauma

and yet the joy of holding him that first time made me know I'd do it

again in a heartbeat. So much love wrapped in one tiny body just

still blows my mind. And so I made her work through it and tell me a

new story, one not about her and one more about a mother-daughter

relationship start anew. Of course it is fleeting, but that's what I

wanted at the time- nothing but anger lasts w/a borderline but they

do have the ability to penetrate their darkness and rage. They chose

not to though b/c rage is what's known and it is comfortable for them

to act w/hatred the same as its comfortable and normal for me to act

w/love towards my kids.

I think being angry at nada for pushing your buttons again is normal.

Normal people feel anger when they are violated. Again, all they have

is rage and that's what they are best at conjuring up in other

people. When I am away from her and NC like I have been now for quite

some time, I recall some happy memories and think along the lines of

good times and a sense of love, fleeting of course, but a sense. And

I pity her and feel great sympathy for her. But the facts of the

matter are that I was raised by a rage-o-holic mentally ill woman. No

matter what i feel for her, she's still sick even though I'm getting

healthy. Normal loving people want to be charitable towards others

and so the KO and others get sucked back into the BP's life by a

sense of normal and disbelief that anyone could be so ugly

underneath. That love and charity that is more innate to the human

condition blinds those people of fairly good mental health towards

the bp's illness and so they get pulled back in for another round of

see who can be the maddest. In the end, I have learned that no matter

what I feel or think or say to myself, my mother's mental illness is

still there and she will still hurt me w/her rage and while it was

her job to protect me growing up, a job she failed at miserably, now

it is my turn as the adult to protect me...not only me but my kids.

Love of self now is so strong that I dare not put myself in a

position where I know I will be abused and violated and victimized

again which is what my nada does best, sadly. And I have much more

than me to look out for now days. I have a wonderful family to look

out for and so I won't even pretend to see things in her that she

kills daily- love, hope, humanity, compassion, charity, humility. I

can't pretend anymore for the simple fact I do have those traits in

myself and I have hope that my kids will have these traits cultivated

by me cultivating them in me first- not nada first. My children will

never hear the horrors of how painful it was bringing them into the

world and how I felt I was knocking on death's door w/my first one.

They will only know that it was the best day of my life as all

children should know. That much I have learned from nada's mistakes.

But yes, the birth story resonates w/me. I'm glad you stood up and

I'm glad I stood up for the truth of the matter.

Kerrie

> Hello Everyone,

>

> I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her never

to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message (at 2:14

a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast cancer surgery

today and that she " loves me. " The way that she says that is ONE HUGE

trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I am having fantasies

of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel that way about

anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks. I realized from a

post (I apologize I don't remember whom it was from) about grieving

the loss of the fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing and

she can never respect any boundry that I set. OH, great...here comes

the shame from writing the above. God, I am so stupid, stupid, stupid

for letting her get to me! I apologize for such an angry post.

>

> Greg.

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh yeah, can I ever identify with the Birth Story too!! My Nada loves telling

that story -- her face lights up with glee as she goes on about the unbelievable

pain and suffering of it, how she was determined not to use drugs but then ended

up begging and pleading because of the unbearable pain! For 44 years now it's

always been the exact same story, starring her and repeated verbatim, no matter

who she's telling it to.

It's funny, because until I read your post, it never occurred to me that this is

all she's ever said about the experience, she's never once mentioned my actual

birth or what it was like to see or hold me for the first time, or anything

relating to joy at having me. Not once! I'd be really curious to see if I can

get her to talk about that part... maybe on my next birthday I'll ask her!

Like you, all my son's ever heard about the day he was born is that it was the

happiest day of my life. He'll never know about the labor and emergency

c-section -- I'd never even consider telling him that part! What sane person

would want a child to feel bad or guilty about just being born??? Or feel that

their birth was secondary to the drama of the woman giving birth to them???

Nada and I were NC during my entire pregnancy and the birth of my child, which I

really needed at the time. The thought of having her there to see me give birth

would've just ruined it! Also, I think I knew I'd be too preoccupied with

delivery to alter my behavior in her presence. The idea that she'd ever see me

in an unguarded moment is still terrifying! Why is that? Hmm.....

Shana

Re: She called Again after NC rule put in place!!

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Ah yes, the birth story. All my life I've heard the story of my

> birth. Of how nada was so drugged up and how everyone but her

> got to

> see me and how mad she was at the doctors and resentful she was

> of my

> dad in being able to see and hold me first. I've never heard her

> tell

> the story of the day I was born w/o utter anger and rage she

> still

> feeds for the injustice served to her. Never mind that I was

> born.

> Never mind that you have the rest of your life to bond w/the

> child.

> Never mind its suppose to be one of the most joyous occassions

> in a

> mother's life. Nope, pure rage. That's all a borderline knows

> how to

> feel- anger. And in the process, they make everyone around them

> angry

> too.

>

> A couple of years ago when I went nc for a month or so and she

> called

> right on my b-day and I didn't answer but called back then next

> day I

> made her tell me the story of my birth and I made her work

> through

> the anger and get to how she felt hope and love for me when she

> did

> first hold me. It was one of those moments I pierced beyond her

> mental illness and got to see a glimpse of her soul, the better

> part

> that gets killed slowly w/each passing year. I'm glad I did that

> for

> my own sake- just b/c it was the first birthday I had after I

> became

> a mother and believe me, my first son's birth experience was

> anything

> but a walk in the park and it wasn't what I expected, filled

> w/trauma

> and yet the joy of holding him that first time made me know I'd

> do it

> again in a heartbeat. So much love wrapped in one tiny body just

> still blows my mind. And so I made her work through it and tell

> me a

> new story, one not about her and one more about a mother-

> daughter

> relationship start anew. Of course it is fleeting, but that's

> what I

> wanted at the time- nothing but anger lasts w/a borderline but

> they

> do have the ability to penetrate their darkness and rage. They

> chose

> not to though b/c rage is what's known and it is comfortable for

> them

> to act w/hatred the same as its comfortable and normal for me to

> act

> w/love towards my kids.

>

> I think being angry at nada for pushing your buttons again is

> normal.

> Normal people feel anger when they are violated. Again, all they

> have

> is rage and that's what they are best at conjuring up in other

> people. When I am away from her and NC like I have been now for

> quite

> some time, I recall some happy memories and think along the

> lines of

> good times and a sense of love, fleeting of course, but a sense.

> And

> I pity her and feel great sympathy for her. But the facts of the

> matter are that I was raised by a rage-o-holic mentally ill

> woman. No

> matter what i feel for her, she's still sick even though I'm

> getting

> healthy. Normal loving people want to be charitable towards

> others

> and so the KO and others get sucked back into the BP's life by a

> sense of normal and disbelief that anyone could be so ugly

> underneath. That love and charity that is more innate to the

> human

> condition blinds those people of fairly good mental health

> towards

> the bp's illness and so they get pulled back in for another

> round of

> see who can be the maddest. In the end, I have learned that no

> matter

> what I feel or think or say to myself, my mother's mental

> illness is

> still there and she will still hurt me w/her rage and while it

> was

> her job to protect me growing up, a job she failed at miserably,

> now

> it is my turn as the adult to protect me...not only me but my

> kids.

> Love of self now is so strong that I dare not put myself in a

> position where I know I will be abused and violated and

> victimized

> again which is what my nada does best, sadly. And I have much

> more

> than me to look out for now days. I have a wonderful family to

> look

> out for and so I won't even pretend to see things in her that

> she

> kills daily- love, hope, humanity, compassion, charity,

> humility. I

> can't pretend anymore for the simple fact I do have those traits

> in

> myself and I have hope that my kids will have these traits

> cultivated

> by me cultivating them in me first- not nada first. My children

> will

> never hear the horrors of how painful it was bringing them into

> the

> world and how I felt I was knocking on death's door w/my first

> one.

> They will only know that it was the best day of my life as all

> children should know. That much I have learned from nada's mistakes.

>

> But yes, the birth story resonates w/me. I'm glad you stood up

> and

> I'm glad I stood up for the truth of the matter.

>

> Kerrie

>

> > Hello Everyone,

> >

> > I am so angry right now. My nada called me after I told her

> never

> to contact me again almost 2 weeks ago. She left a message (at

> 2:14

> a.m. my time) that she is going in for more breast cancer

> surgery

> today and that she " loves me. " The way that she says that is ONE

> HUGE

> trigger for me. I am so angry/hurt at her that I am having

> fantasies

> of her death. And I dont' want to think or feel that way about

> anyone. It has been so hard these last two weeks. I realized

> from a

> post (I apologize I don't remember whom it was from) about

> grieving

> the loss of the fantasy parents. I know that is what I am doing

> and

> she can never respect any boundry that I set. OH, great...here

> comes

> the shame from writing the above. God, I am so stupid, stupid,

> stupid

> for letting her get to me! I apologize for such an angry post.

> >

> > Greg.

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.

> Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

> >

> >