Re: I need support today......

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg,

i think for my first 2 years of NC, I had these urges to contact my

nada. It takes awhile to overcome our habits and programing. And

it is really hard to accept that our BPD mom will probably never be

the mother we want and should have had. But the truth is always

better than the fantasy that can never happen. By accepting the

truth, we can go on to repair and build our life.

Take care,

Sylvia

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

moving onwards.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greg,

I can totally relate to wanting to contact your Mom -

sometimes I stop for a second and think " Why did i

stop contact with my mom? Why am I angry? Im done with

it all. Why am I depriving myself of the

relationship. I know how to handle it now. I know

it's a disease. " [background: She disowned me about a

year ago for " orchestrating her and my dad's divorce "

(obviously all in her head) and then begged me for

forgiveness 1 month later; then accused me of writing

secret letters, then asked for forgiveness 2 months

later]. And to tell you the truth, those seconds of

asking those questions are so vital to me because they

give me a few moments of true peace. It takes me out

of the historic chaos in my head and I like that. A

lot of times, I feel so sorry for her that I want to

reach out (especially after reading all the books and

realizing that it's not that she's just totally evil

and inhumane).

Nevertheless, I think one of the most interesting

aspects of BPD is how BPs have this remarkable and

staggering ability to suck you back in. We know we

dont want it, but we're so used to the push and pull,

that it's hard decipher between the two. And oh, it's

so easy to get sucked back in. Sometimes I think it's

a little sadistic/masochistic of me to be curious of

going back. In the end, something stops me from

picking up the phone or asking about her. I think

that all the abuse on to me and others still makes me

sick to my stomach. Does it still make you sick? -

perhaps thi is one of the important questions to ask

youself.

I am not sure what your experiences are, but if you

want to contact her, you have to be firm in drawing a

disctinct and solid line with what is okay and what is

not okay with you. And, i think you have to be ready

to get out the second you need to.

When I read SWOE, I thought 1) Wow, okay, so there are

very clear ways of dealing with BPs; it's not a lost

cause and 2) Wow, look at the overwhelming amount of

patience it takes to talk to them and just how much

effort you have to put in the smallest, most innocent

conversations or task. In a way, I dont think my nada

deserves that patience - but of course that's all said

from the anger still in me for her not having any

understanding or patience with me. I loved SWOE, but I

partly think that it is a great help for people whose

partners have BPD or nonBPs who have BP children;

children of BPs are a different story.

Because so many other people in my life have stable,

working relationships with their mothers, it often

times makes me very sad to see where I am at and what

I have missed out on. AND what I possibly continue to

separate myself from by having no contact. In the end

I know that this idealistic relationship will probably

never exist and in the end, I'm okay with that. In

that regard, I always end with thinking , " thank God I

am out of that house of hell, thank God I survived it,

thank God for my friends, thank God for my

independcen, thank God for no longer needing to live

in an insane asylum " (even though being a non is

pretty damn difficult).

With all that said, the important think to realize is

that you're in control now and you can set the

boundaries. You can feel the waters. You can touch

just a toe in it, not plunge in head first. If you

feel like contacting your mom, do it. That is, if the

energy pushes you to this, follow it, dont stifle it.

But never think that you have to take her shit or

stand for the chaos or even excuse it. I think once

you realize that simple truth (if you have not

already), things seem easier. I am constantly working

on the boundary issues.

I know many of the things I said you may already know,

but sometimes, it helps to hear it from someone else.

Take care,

Olya

--- G wrote:

> Hi Everyone,

>

> For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I

> bought the book SWOES and the workbook to go with

> it, and started doing some of the work last night.

> It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

> to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost

> fantasy of the fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch!

> I am back in the dissociating mode again, so I am

> just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

> Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of

> grieving and moving onwards.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check

> it out.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Sylvia,

I also have these urges to call my mother. I keep telling myself it is for

the best, but I miss the " good " mom. The supportive and reassuring mother.

I can't believe that ALL of her advice and behavior was ill intended. Am I

just fooling myself? I DONT miss the walking on eggshell feeling or the

defensive position that I have had to play in the past. I'm in limbo since

NC 1 month ago. I also hate the idea that she thinks I'm the one at fault

and hate what other family members might be thinking about my NC. The books

and my therapist all say...rid yourself of the guilt. I've made some gains,

but the guilt still exists.

My fearful inner child is being triggered now because my biggest support (my

husband) is going to Europe for 5 days and I fear that she will try to make

contact. I believe she believes she can get this dream relationship of

mother/daughter if we just go to therapy together. I know that the

likelihood of her changing is very slim, but the little girl inside who

wants her mom is saying " maybe? " .

Can you slap me into realty? PLEASE !!

KW

>

>Reply-To: WTOAdultChildren1

>To: WTOAdultChildren1

>Subject: Re: I need support today......

>Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2006 23:22:06 -0000

>

>Hi Greg,

>

>i think for my first 2 years of NC, I had these urges to contact my

>nada. It takes awhile to overcome our habits and programing. And

>it is really hard to accept that our BPD mom will probably never be

>the mother we want and should have had. But the truth is always

>better than the fantasy that can never happen. By accepting the

>truth, we can go on to repair and build our life.

>

>Take care,

>

>Sylvia

>

>

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

>SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

>work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

>to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

>fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

>mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

>Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

>moving onwards.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Greg.

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Greg, I am sending you positive thoughts and prayers. May you have many

blessings at your new home. mg

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg, Just hang in there. The feeling of wanting a mom is a

perfectly natural feeling and you are not odd strange or weird. It

is normal to wish for a mom. I always desire the idea of having a

mom not necessarily my mom because I know logically it would not be

healthy but the thought of a mom is very nice. I remember when my

husband and I were unpacking into our first apartment after I went

n/c, oh how I wished my family could have been a part of that in a

normal healthy loving way. There were times I was so tempted to call

her or write her but I knew for my self and my little ones I had to

stay strong. You can do it to, you have all of us to lean on if you

need to. Soon you will meet some nice new neighbors and some good

people around you to and that will help to occupy your life as well.

I often sit outside with my neighbor she is a single mom and we hang

out all the time doing nothing. We have a great neighborhood full of

nice people. Anyways continue to read it will bring healing. I am

proud of you. We all have something to be proud of. Write when ever

you need to. Love Lizzy

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

moving onwards.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greg-

I totally understand wanting to cantact nada because you're greiving

who she can never be. But by contacting her, you won't be getting in

touch with that fantasy mom you deserved. You'd be calling the woman

who forced you to create a fantasy mom in the first place.

There's really nothing for you to gain by contacting her. A mother's

job is to raise her children. While you deserve a normal, healthy

mom who was capable of raising her children with unconditional love

and acceptance, you, unfortunately, didn't get one. And you don't

need her anymore. You don't need to be raised anymore. And you're

going to be just fine without either of them (fantasy mom or nada).

I'm currently reading Surviving a Borderline Parent. It's been very

helpful, very validating. There's an excercise in there designed

specifically for grieving your fantasy parent. Or even just for

grieving the fantasy relationship with your nada. It helped me

immensely. Here it is:

Write a letter to your parent describing your truth. You don't have

to send it. Then write a eulogy for your nada, without worrying if

you're being politically correct or anything. Then write a eulogy

for your fantasy parent. After all that, perform a cermony that will

be meaningful to you to mark the death of your fantasy parent and

your fantasy relationship with your real parent.

It will get easier. And keep coming back.

Neko Jaimie

[Guest guest]

Greg,

Yes it is... most assuredly a part of the grief process. You are

absolutely right. I think when I posted elsewhere for someone else

something about us KOs also being addicts to this concept we have

mothers or fathers that are real is something I kind of wrote for

myself as well. I never put it in words before, but now that I did, I

am more and more aware of my own level of addiction to this notion my

mother is a real mother. I think being aware of that helps

enormously. I knew she was sick. I knew she was not a role model I

wanted for my own parenting of my kids. But I don't think it has been

until these past few weeks that I've realized why it is so hard for

me to disengage- to totally walk away. I'm addicted to her lies- that

just around the next corner a real mom will pop out of those bag of

tricks of hers and really love me and validate me and nurture me the

way I needed in childhood. She's good at giving just enough rope to

make it believable. Part of me thinks that her ability to hone in on

that need and yo-yo it when I was younger and now as an adult when I

no longer need it is what has made me think for so long that there

may indeed be hope in her. To face the fact I am giving up hope in

this relationship is so very hard for me. I'm a charitable person. I

believe in second and third and sometimes fourth and fifth chances. I

believe we all screw up and some of us battle certain flaws and we

all have issues that make us less than perfect. I believe in hope and

redemption and forgiveness. What I don't think I've noticed until

recently though is that I have not fully forgiven or else I wouldn't

have this urge to call her once in a while- this urge to believe that

this woman who gave birth to me and still lives and breathes is alive

and a mother whereas in truth that mother inside her is faint at best-

AT BEST- and that in so many ways she's just an empty shell of what

life and love is. That while my dad was burried 6 feet under when I

was 8, she's been more dead for so many years in ways that not even

my deceased dad is dead in my mind. These concepts and realities are

hard for the mind to wrap itself around. Add on to the fact a

borderline knows when they are being abandoned and pulls out all the

smoke and mirrors and trauma to re-engage the addicted KO- be it the

suicide of nada's fiance in my life in March or your nada's

current 'cancer' scare and it really touches onto the trauma bonds

that were formed w/us in childhood. She knows how to push these

buttons to make us want to believe she needs us or cares about us or

is receptive to some sick version of love from us. She never gives

though. She never gives of self b/c there's no self to give from.

Just the addiction game.

Your desires are a natural biproduct just like mine of this sick

dance of addiction we've been emeshed in for years- living in the

gutter and being told its a mansion. I'm kind of just settling for a

Condo now and I'm learning to be happy w/that though I admit, I have

much anger within. I'm angry and sad and in denial and just going

through the grief process the same as I'd do if she really were dead.

In fact I think it is harder knowing someone is alive and its

impossible to love them b/c they don't want my love than if they were

physically dead- at least w/physical death I believe the love never

dies. I can not say I understand or believe that my mother has ever

really loved me b/c she never loves herself and is such a hollow

manaquin of motherhood.

I've always thought as a child and growing up that kids of divorce

had it much worse than kids whose parent's died. I saw it too though

we got lumped in the same catagory. There is more anger in the kids

of divorce b/c the parents live and yet can not find a way to get

along well enough to live under the same roof though they once got

along enough to have children...not knocking anyone divorced here.

I'm just sharing my experience. I can see that and understand it

better now as I really feel that great divorce, that great divide,

that great coming to terms that I am my own person and I CHOSE

consciously not to be around someone as sick as her. Personhood is

somethiing I've fought long and hard to attain- something outside of

her, something away from her, something that's just me. But it still

hurts b/c deep down I wish she wouldn't chose sickness just as I'm

sure kids of divorce would wish that one or both of their parents

wouldn't be so self serving and egoistic. I get it now. It sucks.

While I want to call her sometimes, I've finally reached the point in

my life where I know the pain is too great. While I may momentarily

forget all the past and buy into some deep set brainwashing, the

greater part of me will say 'not today, tomorrow. You don't remember

right now, but if you go back, you will remember soon enough.' It is

so much like I imagine heroin addicts- they love the dream that the

fleeting minor good feelings will last forever and yet the come down

is soooo much worse than the high that they keep trying to regain

that high again and again though in the end, heroin was never meant

to be ingested into the human body. In the end, the rage of the

borderline is something never mean to be ingested into the human soul.

I will get over this too, but it hurts. And I do feel your pain,

Greg. Its what I've been going through all year and while it gets

easier, it is still not easy by a long shot.

Best wishes to you.

Kerrie

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

moving onwards.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Kerrie and all for your wise words of support and experience. Many of

you have hit how I feel right on the head. I am grieving just like I grieved

when my sociopathic father died. The pain right now is so great that I awaken

every morning and am so tired I wish I was dead. But the analytical part of my

mind tells me that safety would seem so strange and different that it makes

sense to feel that and like I don't know who I am anymore. On the positive

side, I feel like I am starting fresh. Yet, I also feel like I am behind. I

know that I am in the part of going in and out of denial. I had this nightmare

two nights ago, that I had split (became MPD again) and was talking to my 12

alters. I woke up startled and said to God, Please Don't let that Happen again.

Addicted is a wise choice of words, and I would liken the addiction to a baby

being born to a crack addict, because we had no choice in picking up that needle

or whatever the substance is. We were just assigned a role and used.

Another thing that is making my adjustment here a bit harder is that I am

hesitant to socialize just yet. I think it is a combination of the grieving of

my nada. But I also wonder if I am protecting myself from losing friends -

before they begin. Back in 1993, I had a successful massage practice in Dallas.

In six months (2 in the first week) I lost all 8 of my close friends to AIDS.

During that same time, I lost 32 clients to AIDS, but my business was continuing

to grow. I became too numb to work. There was no way to keep up with the

losses and no support because they all died. Therapy wasn't enough. And i made

the biggest mistake...I took my nada up on moving into her guest house in Maine.

Four years of hell followed and I learned a lot.

Anyway, I thank you all for sharing your experiences and insights in to this

grieving process. Now I am going to get my butt off this couch and continue to

unpack until it is done.

Take great care,

Greg.

Kerrie wrote:

Greg,

Yes it is... most assuredly a part of the grief process. You are

absolutely right. I think when I posted elsewhere for someone else

something about us KOs also being addicts to this concept we have

mothers or fathers that are real is something I kind of wrote for

myself as well. I never put it in words before, but now that I did, I

am more and more aware of my own level of addiction to this notion my

mother is a real mother. I think being aware of that helps

enormously. I knew she was sick. I knew she was not a role model I

wanted for my own parenting of my kids. But I don't think it has been

until these past few weeks that I've realized why it is so hard for

me to disengage- to totally walk away. I'm addicted to her lies- that

just around the next corner a real mom will pop out of those bag of

tricks of hers and really love me and validate me and nurture me the

way I needed in childhood. She's good at giving just enough rope to

make it believable. Part of me thinks that her ability to hone in on

that need and yo-yo it when I was younger and now as an adult when I

no longer need it is what has made me think for so long that there

may indeed be hope in her. To face the fact I am giving up hope in

this relationship is so very hard for me. I'm a charitable person. I

believe in second and third and sometimes fourth and fifth chances. I

believe we all screw up and some of us battle certain flaws and we

all have issues that make us less than perfect. I believe in hope and

redemption and forgiveness. What I don't think I've noticed until

recently though is that I have not fully forgiven or else I wouldn't

have this urge to call her once in a while- this urge to believe that

this woman who gave birth to me and still lives and breathes is alive

and a mother whereas in truth that mother inside her is faint at best-

AT BEST- and that in so many ways she's just an empty shell of what

life and love is. That while my dad was burried 6 feet under when I

was 8, she's been more dead for so many years in ways that not even

my deceased dad is dead in my mind. These concepts and realities are

hard for the mind to wrap itself around. Add on to the fact a

borderline knows when they are being abandoned and pulls out all the

smoke and mirrors and trauma to re-engage the addicted KO- be it the

suicide of nada's fiance in my life in March or your nada's

current 'cancer' scare and it really touches onto the trauma bonds

that were formed w/us in childhood. She knows how to push these

buttons to make us want to believe she needs us or cares about us or

is receptive to some sick version of love from us. She never gives

though. She never gives of self b/c there's no self to give from.

Just the addiction game.

Your desires are a natural biproduct just like mine of this sick

dance of addiction we've been emeshed in for years- living in the

gutter and being told its a mansion. I'm kind of just settling for a

Condo now and I'm learning to be happy w/that though I admit, I have

much anger within. I'm angry and sad and in denial and just going

through the grief process the same as I'd do if she really were dead.

In fact I think it is harder knowing someone is alive and its

impossible to love them b/c they don't want my love than if they were

physically dead- at least w/physical death I believe the love never

dies. I can not say I understand or believe that my mother has ever

really loved me b/c she never loves herself and is such a hollow

manaquin of motherhood.

I've always thought as a child and growing up that kids of divorce

had it much worse than kids whose parent's died. I saw it too though

we got lumped in the same catagory. There is more anger in the kids

of divorce b/c the parents live and yet can not find a way to get

along well enough to live under the same roof though they once got

along enough to have children...not knocking anyone divorced here.

I'm just sharing my experience. I can see that and understand it

better now as I really feel that great divorce, that great divide,

that great coming to terms that I am my own person and I CHOSE

consciously not to be around someone as sick as her. Personhood is

somethiing I've fought long and hard to attain- something outside of

her, something away from her, something that's just me. But it still

hurts b/c deep down I wish she wouldn't chose sickness just as I'm

sure kids of divorce would wish that one or both of their parents

wouldn't be so self serving and egoistic. I get it now. It sucks.

While I want to call her sometimes, I've finally reached the point in

my life where I know the pain is too great. While I may momentarily

forget all the past and buy into some deep set brainwashing, the

greater part of me will say 'not today, tomorrow. You don't remember

right now, but if you go back, you will remember soon enough.' It is

so much like I imagine heroin addicts- they love the dream that the

fleeting minor good feelings will last forever and yet the come down

is soooo much worse than the high that they keep trying to regain

that high again and again though in the end, heroin was never meant

to be ingested into the human body. In the end, the rage of the

borderline is something never mean to be ingested into the human soul.

I will get over this too, but it hurts. And I do feel your pain,

Greg. Its what I've been going through all year and while it gets

easier, it is still not easy by a long shot.

Best wishes to you.

Kerrie

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

moving onwards.

>

> Thanks,

>

> Greg.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Greg, you have been through a lot. You are certainly not the first KO

to go through hard times and make the " mistake " of turning to parents

for help. My brother is going through this now and I think that it's

natural to hope/wish that your family would be there for you in hard

times and to let yourself get lured into that illusion. It's only

natural to try, but I suppose most of us know better by now.

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your dream about your personailities (if

that's how you refer to it). I do not have multiple personalities,

but I get some pretty nasty phobias and some other weird reactions

that are triggered by stress (even good stress sometimes). I just

feel so out of control when even a hint of this occurs that even a

hint of their return is terrifying to me. So, I kind of know what

you're going through.

It must be very difficult also to have gone through the work of

creating a sort of alternate family with all of your friends and then

to loose them all. I think, though, that you deserve to be surrounded

by friends, or a family of choice, if you will. And, yes, we can

always loose the people we love, I am afraid of that sometimes

too--but it is still worth having people you love.

Hugs,

Trish

[Guest guest]

Kerrie,

Which character was your friend?

Greg.

Kerrie wrote:

Greg,

It is interesting that you used the analogy of a crack baby. That's

the exact same analogy my cousin used last night on the phone. Her

mother has bpd also- she's the one I was always close to whose sister

invited me to her wedding, which is so weird since I've never been

close to her (turns out she didn't send anyone an RSVP card as its a

buffet dinner, but was just kind of weird getting the 'money only

please' card and no RSVP card). I think it is a good analogy with

adult children of borderline mothers trying to get away.

I'm so sorry for the losses you endured with your friends and clients

back in 1993. This topic hits at the core of my heart as it kind of

overlaps w/the crack baby analogy. In college in 1998 I took two

classes on HIV/AIDS. In the process, I volunteered to work a few

hours here and there w/children who were born HIV positive. This one

very saintly woman adopted these children no one else wanted and

nursed them to health. Several of the children grew out of the

disease, it never developed and went away when they were two years

old (which I never knew before taking the class that this was a

possibility for newborns who were HIV positive- of course they

couldn't nurse from their biological mother as that does increase the

chances of baby getting it and I read one story of a mother who was

positive who nursed her child and I found it really sick and twisted

and I do believe she was jailed for endangering her baby). But some

did not grow out of it. One child was born not only HIV positive but

also as a crack baby and when I worked with her as a four year old,

she had some severe problems from the combination. I still do not

understand how that couple adopted these children. I mean I do on a

legal background, but on a spiritual and psychological level, I just

can't think of anyone I've ever met who was more of a real life

saint. Those kids were so loved and some were so well adjusted

(others had other issues that extended beyond HIV when they outgrew

it such as Epstein Barrs from alcoholic HIV positive mothers). There

house though highly technological and medical was filled with so much

love, pure love. It was a gift for me to be able to work with her

those few times and help out with the children.

I also volunteered to chaparone the quilt project when it toured. It

was so sad and considering I was chaparoning a bunch of teenagers

from the local public high schools, I was amazed at the humbleness

and seriousness that the kids displayed when they read the names and

stories on the quilt. Judith Light who use to star as the mom

on 'Whose the Boss' was also there for the concert and talk to the

teens and I met her afterwards and was so inspired by the dedication

and commitment she had long before others in Hollywood were putting

their money where their mouths were. Its all just so sad when I think

about it. Just this year my aunt, the one that I wrote about, her

bestfriend whose also a friend of mine had his father die from it.

I've known them all since I was in diapers. Part of me was and still

is utterly enraged. Her bestfriend and my friend is gay and has been

out of the closet for some time and so you'd kind of think they'd be

more open and honest, but instead everyone pretended he died of heart

complications. I wanted to send a donation in his memory to a

pediatric AIDS foundation, but they asked I send money to the SPCA

instead as no one wants to admit he died of AIDS. It was so much like

reading the horrors that unfolded in the 1980s in the book 'And the

Band Played On'. That book and the book " Roots " were two of the most

horrific and suspenseful and eye opening books about our American

history that I've ever read- two of the quickest reads ever too,

perhaps I read so quickly since they were real and the truth is

always more bizarre than fiction.

I've had a few other friends die from it as well. Nothing like what

you went through, but more than I ever wanted to see. It is hard to

watch and yet with what you went through, I can only imagine it would

be extremely difficult to want to bond with people...add on a bp

mother and you definitely have a mix for distrusting human bonding. I

had great difficulty when I moved from Florida in making friends. Not

that I've ever had problems making friends, but more along the same

lines of logic you had- didn't want to bond only to say good-bye. I

was too depressed back then and really I don't like forming

friendships when I'm that down- never sure what kind of people I'll

pull into my life when I'm that out of touch with me. I know that

much at least, that its better to go into this hermit mode

temporarily just so I don't end up w/more bps or nps in my life.

Maybe that's where you are now. Just letting the burns heal and while

you know deep down they are getting better, it is not remotely like

you want to step out into the sunlight and feel even the smallest

since of hurt again. yes, I know what you are talking about and

having been depressed before, I knew with that last round of

depression that 'this too shall pass.' You sound kind of like you get

this too, like you've been down a similar road and so while it sucks

and is difficult, you have this little light of hope inside that

knows it will get better and easier the more you walk in your own

shoes and live your own life and figure out who you are in light of

all these new changes.

Have you ever seen the moive " Angels In America " ? We saw it recently

as its got one of my former classmates staring in it. But I thought

it was a really great story about different people's journeys and

Meryll Streep plays an excellent rendition of a bp mother in the

movie. I'm wondering now after that role and then 'Sophie's Choice'-

another bp character- if she's in real life got bp issues of her own

since she does so well in those roles.

I also know what you mean w/feeling like you're behind. I think

that's one of those things that we never truly catch up on, just that

we learn to live with the scares and wounds and we learn how to

explain them so that people know why we don't always get certain

things that other's take for granted. For example, my last therapist

that I went to couple's therapy w/dh said once about women are the

more natural nurturers or something to that effect about gender roles

and whatnot and as she said that she looked at me for feedback and

making sure I agreed or understood as she was basically trying to

explain things to dh and looking for reinforcement. I told her 'well,

yes, intellectually I get what you are saying, but psychologically

and emotionally I do not have a blueprint of a mother who was like

how you and others describe feminity and motherhood and womanhood.'

she jumped all over that as really good feedback to comprehend some

of the more subtle issues in our marriage when push comes to shove- I

kind of shove more than I think some women do just b/c I grew up w/an

extremely aggressive woman. There's not a lot of passivity in me

though I wouldn't say I'm aggressive either- just that I stand my

ground w/dh the same as I would w/anyone else and his family is a bit

different. When I come across these 'little issues' I get the feeling

I'll never really 'catch up' as much as learn to articulate better

and better to others what different realities are like...feel less

ostricized from their sense of reality and more of a bridge between

teh two. Part of my own healing though was to see that we all don't

have the same realities

You have the right to grieve though just the same as you had to over

your npd father like you said. It helps to give one's self permission

to let it go and to grieve and part of the stages of grief is denial

which makes you and I and other KOs want to call a nada and pretend

like everything's okay- the same as when someone we love who is in

our daily life dies and we still want to pick up the phone and share

the news of our day with them the same as always. It is hard letting

go.

Best wishes to you. My deepest sympathies go out to you over the loss

of so many friends. I can't imagine so much letting go at one time.

It must have been very traumatic.

Kerrie

> >

> > Hi Everyone,

> >

> > For some reason I want to contact my Mom. I bought the book

> SWOES and the workbook to go with it, and started doing some of the

> work last night. It is very helpful. You know, I really don't wnat

> to talk to her...the pain is coming from the lost fantasy of the

> fantasy Mom I really wanted. Ouch! I am back in the dissociating

> mode again, so I am just doing housework and continuing to unpack.

> Yesterday was a good day. I suppose this is part of grieving and

> moving onwards.

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Greg.

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

> >

> >