Re: What to say to nada in waif/hermit mode

[Guest guest]

Not sure what to say, my nada was the exact same way. EXACT!!!!

The consist pain, complaining and not wanting to live stuff.

When my nada went in to the hospital last summer with a burst

appendix and a ruptured hernia, she turned septic and almost died.

She recoveried from that, but never fully recovered in a way that

she had to do for herself in PT & OT. I couldn't do it for her and

refused to be there for her when she went to theropy everyday.

Well, she was not going to do it herself. So she faded away and died.

My nada died not from a physical medical condition, but from BPD.

She was not going to get off her thrown and do for herself. Her

cause of death-Failure to thrive.

Good Luck-Your going to need it.

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> My nada is in major hermit/waif mode. She has some chronic health

> issues and as a result, almost never leaves the house except to go

to

> doctor's appointments. She is not really " sick " ; she has chronic

> pain and stomach issues. Our conversations consist almost 100% of

> her complaining. She spends a lot of time telling me that her

life

> is over, that there is nothing she wants to do and nothing she

enjoys

> because of the chronic pain, and that she doesn't want to leave

her

> house, but also that her life is not worth living because she

never

> does anything or goes anywhere.

>

> I have spent years trying to get her to go out and do things

either

> with me or on her own, but she just won't. She says she " can't. "

To

> her, it seems like " can't " and " won't " are the same thing. Has

anyone

> experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to say

to

> her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she

feels,

> and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

> with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal with

> this/ what you have done in this situation?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

After my dad died nada went into waif/hermit mode after previously

being a witch/queen. It was an overnight change and I don't know

which one was worse, at least as a queen she seemed competent and

strong and I could get angry at her. As the waif, and being a

recent widow, I felt sorry for her and didn't feel comfortable

expressing anger and frustration....at first.

Eventually I became SO frustrated with the endless loop of misery,

the constant negative droaning, the one way conversations, the 'I

don't know what to do, but won't listen to any suggestions God

forbid I take responsibility for my life'conversations that I

finally snapped.

I took it for two years and during the last six months of that time

I started seeing a therapist and read UBM and began to break nada's

spell. I was so fed up with all the chaos that clearly had no end,

and the desire to have a happy life was becoming stronger than any

feelings of obligation. Bp's tend to push people right over the edge

and out of their life. Their greatest fear, abandonment, become a

self fulfilling prophesy.

When one truly begins to envision a life of peacefulness it is in

direct conflict with those who destroy and something's gotta give.

For me it meant pulling away from nada even though in the beginning

I felt really guilty at first for ending contact, but there was a

part of me that knew I had to in order to survive, to thrive. It was

a process however and didn't happen overnight.

You cannot make nada's life better, I don't think that is what they

want. They don't seem to want help they want to suck the energy out

of other people. It sounds as though has the ability to get out of

the house and do more but clearly that isn't very important to her.

The screwed up part is that most people would just say 'I don't like

going go out' but with a bp they use their choice as a way to invoke

feelings of pity and obligation in others.

In UBM there is a chapter on how to love the waif without pitying

her. That is key, not treating them as a victim. For the two years I

visited nada after my dad died, EVERY visit she would say, " I want

to die, why am I here? " I know grief will do that but this was more,

she had no regard for the impact it had on me, afterall I lost a

father, but she couldn't see anyone else's pain, didn't care what

she put me through and that made her very toxic indeed.

Take care of your self,

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> My nada is in major hermit/waif mode. She has some chronic health

> issues and as a result, almost never leaves the house except to go

to

> doctor's appointments. She is not really " sick " ; she has chronic

> pain and stomach issues. Our conversations consist almost 100% of

> her complaining. She spends a lot of time telling me that her

life

> is over, that there is nothing she wants to do and nothing she

enjoys

> because of the chronic pain, and that she doesn't want to leave

her

> house, but also that her life is not worth living because she

never

> does anything or goes anywhere.

>

> I have spent years trying to get her to go out and do things

either

> with me or on her own, but she just won't. She says she " can't. "

To

> her, it seems like " can't " and " won't " are the same thing. Has

anyone

> experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to say

to

> her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she

feels,

> and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

> with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal with

> this/ what you have done in this situation?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

,

Thank you for your reply. It's interesting, like yours my nada used

to be more queen/witch, but now she feels so rundown that she's

become more waif/hermit. If you don't mind sharing about this, when

you say after two years you finally snapped and you began pulling

away from nada, what did you do? Did you go NC or did you cut back

on how much you saw/talked to her, or what? This cycle seems so

endless and hopeless that I really am at a loss and it would help me

just to know what other people did (even if I decide not to do the

exact same thing).

Thank you! This group helps me a lot---just to see that my mother is

not the only mother in the world like mine. That's what I always

thought all my life because I NEVER saw anyone else's mother act

anything like mine. I thought she was from another planet or

something.

> >

> > Hi, everyone,

> >

> > My nada is in major hermit/waif mode. She has some chronic

health

> > issues and as a result, almost never leaves the house except to

go

> to

> > doctor's appointments. She is not really " sick " ; she has chronic

> > pain and stomach issues. Our conversations consist almost 100%

of

> > her complaining. She spends a lot of time telling me that her

> life

> > is over, that there is nothing she wants to do and nothing she

> enjoys

> > because of the chronic pain, and that she doesn't want to leave

> her

> > house, but also that her life is not worth living because she

> never

> > does anything or goes anywhere.

> >

> > I have spent years trying to get her to go out and do things

> either

> > with me or on her own, but she just won't. She says she " can't. "

> To

> > her, it seems like " can't " and " won't " are the same thing. Has

> anyone

> > experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to say

> to

> > her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she

> feels,

> > and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

> > with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal with

> > this/ what you have done in this situation?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Well, it was a process that evolved over time and began with my

therapist suggesting that maybe nada was borderline. I began reading

UBM and just the overwhelming stress I felt at each visit and the

fact that it all looked so neverending is what drove me to consider

ending contact. It didn't happen overnight but each encounter I had

with nada reinforced that if I continued to see her my life would be

full of anger and frustration.

After each visit I left thinking 'this is never going to end' and I

was not able to be around her without being negatively affected. At

that time I was seeing her about 2 or 3 times a week and I cut back

to 1 or 2 times a week but realized that even just one visit was too

much.

I decided that I needed a break. I didn't know how long the break

would last but I knew I had to do it. I tried to talk to her about

my feelings but of course they fell on deaf ears and that also

reinforced my decision. It was a lose-lose scenario and when I

looked down the line I saw more of the same and just couldn't do a

life sentence. I had already done some pretty hard time.

I told her I couldn't do it anymore. Of course she tried to

manipulate me with guilt and pity but she had pushed me over the

edge, to the point of no return, literally.

I never spoke to her or saw her again, she died a year after I went

n/c. Only a KO would understand this but I had no choice other than

to stay and sacrifice my life and health. Her behaviors caused me to

make that painful and difficult decision.

Many have asked me if I regretted not making amends with her before

she died and I say 'that was not an option, nothing I said would

have changed anything and all I could do was save myself.'

That is really what it comes down to; saving ourselves and letting

them live with their choices. It was not my fault she was sick or my

responsibility to try and fix her (which of course is not possible

nor what they want) nor was it my obligation to allow her to destroy

my spirit.

Once I got all that, the solution was clear; leave. Of course the

process leading up to that point took time. Leaving was the end

result of the enlightenment process. I had to learn to be true to my

self and that involved thrashing with feelings of guilt and

obligation and realizing I had a right to happiness.

It was a process of de-programming and allowing my true feelings and

my desire for a better life to surface and those began to outweigh

nada's manipulations of guilt and obligation and once that happened,

the illusion was shattered and the spell was broken.

I was free to pursue my right to happiness.

> > >

> > > Hi, everyone,

> > >

> > > My nada is in major hermit/waif mode. She has some chronic

> health

> > > issues and as a result, almost never leaves the house except

to

> go

> > to

> > > doctor's appointments. She is not really " sick " ; she has

chronic

> > > pain and stomach issues. Our conversations consist almost

100%

> of

> > > her complaining. She spends a lot of time telling me that her

> > life

> > > is over, that there is nothing she wants to do and nothing she

> > enjoys

> > > because of the chronic pain, and that she doesn't want to

leave

> > her

> > > house, but also that her life is not worth living because she

> > never

> > > does anything or goes anywhere.

> > >

> > > I have spent years trying to get her to go out and do things

> > either

> > > with me or on her own, but she just won't. She says

she " can't. "

> > To

> > > her, it seems like " can't " and " won't " are the same thing. Has

> > anyone

> > > experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to

say

> > to

> > > her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she

> > feels,

> > > and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

> > > with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal

with

> > > this/ what you have done in this situation?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , It is difficult to deal with people like this. My nada

has something called conversation reaction. She is not really sick

but believes she is. She has fake seizures and faints and gets

tunnel vision and the worst part is she really feels these things

and thinks she is sick, it's awful. Before all this she was

having " chronic back, neck shoulder, or whatever it was of the day

pain " I spent a great deal of the time hearing about it and driving

her here there and everywhere until I went n/c. Then later she

had " liver and kidney cancer " and a few months to live NOT! And she

also was dying of a few other things along the way as well there was

too many to recall all of them. I think one was a heart attack or

heart infection. I don't know too many to keep track of that's for

sure. I'm not sure if I have any advice that is golden but the first

thing that comes to mind is don't get emotional over her illness.

When my mom tells me she is dying or life is just not worth living

anymore (this goes for the suicide threats to) I just know that I as

a daughter can not get emotionally involved sorry if it sounds cold

but our survival is at stake here to. If I did I would be a nervous

wreck all the time! With a normal person it is ok to worry or get

involved but when dealing with somebody of this caliber it is best

to detach emotionally, even if they use threats. It is hard to watch

them " suffer " even if it is imagined but it is even harder when they

drag you down to. So try and keep your own head above the water

first that is my best advice! Take care love Lizzy

>

> Hi, everyone,

>

> My nada is in major hermit/waif mode. She has some chronic health

> issues and as a result, almost never leaves the house except to go

to

> doctor's appointments. She is not really " sick " ; she has chronic

> pain and stomach issues. Our conversations consist almost 100% of

> her complaining. She spends a lot of time telling me that her

life

> is over, that there is nothing she wants to do and nothing she

enjoys

> because of the chronic pain, and that she doesn't want to leave

her

> house, but also that her life is not worth living because she

never

> does anything or goes anywhere.

>

> I have spent years trying to get her to go out and do things

either

> with me or on her own, but she just won't. She says she " can't. "

To

> her, it seems like " can't " and " won't " are the same thing. Has

anyone

> experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to say

to

> her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she

feels,

> and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

> with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal with

> this/ what you have done in this situation?

>

> Thanks,

>

>

[Guest guest]

<<Has anyone

experienced anything similar? I honestly don't know what to say to

her anymore. Her only topic of conversation is how awful she feels,

and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

with " I can't. " >>

Yes, I definitely have a similar situation with my mother. I went minimal

contact with her a few years ago, and honestly, I think she has done better

without me as a sounding board! One result of my growing up with her is that I

really have little tolerance for what I perceive as " whining. "

[Guest guest]

<<the endless loop of misery>>

Very good description.

[Guest guest]

>

> Her only topic of conversation is how awful she feels,

>and any suggestions for things to take her mind off it are met

>with " I can't. " Any suggestions for what to say/how to deal with

>this/ what you have done in this situation?

I can really relate to what you say here. I have heard the same

complaints over and over so many times that I actually hold the phone

away from my ear for minutes at a time and never miss anything new. I

have started asking what she did today instead of the usual 'how are

you'. Sometimes I feel like a heartless soul, but I just haven't got

any sympathy left in me. She drained it years ago. Unfortunately, I

find myself contacting her less and less. (Unfortunately for her) I

just am so weary of hearing how she has it sooooo bad. I know her

life can't be wonderful. Who would expect it to be that at 96 1/2?

But she can't see one thing good.... any time. I read somewhere (I

think it was the porcupine book) that constant complaining was a form

of abuse. I believe it is. So for me I guess avoidance is the

current form of protection I have put out there for myself. Dee

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if this would help. In fact it might blow up in your

face. I know it did with me quite often.

Whenever my nada (or grandmother, or pretty much anybody else for

that matter) WOuld get like that, I'd just point out to them that

it's their choice to be miserable. My nada would get all offended

and ask me if I thought she wanted to be like this, did I think she

enjoyed it? And, as my head was screaming yes, I'd say, " I'm just

letting you know you have a choice. You can fix it yourself, or you

can suffer. I can't fix it for you. I can't even help you. It's a

choice you have to make yourself. " Of course, I usually ended up

getting yelled at and hit occasionally. But, in the long run, it's

been better for me. Nada stopped complaining to me eventually. She'd

tell people that I was unsympathetic and uncaring. The funny thing?

She actually wasn't lying about this one. I wasn't sympathetic, and

I didn't care.

Eventually, she " forgave " me for being a " teenager " and " rebelling " .

of course, she got real angry at me when i told her that I didn't

need her forgiveness because I hadn't done anything wrong.

But, like I said, this could all just blow up in your face, so use

with extreme caution. The only reason I got away with it is because

I thought if I drew attention away from my brothers and sister,

they'd at least come out okay. And, to tell the truth, I used to

enjoy the drama. But it's been better since I went NC with her.

Good luck.

Neko Jaimie