Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 hi everyone! i have had occasion of late to spend quite a bit of time in the company of nada dearest, and i've observed something that i don't think we've discussed yet on the board. i wanted to bring it up in case it's helpful to anyone. i've noticed that with nada, every day is judgment day. every day, every event, is that *one* big milestone, that one huge thing. it's always a *big* talk. like the advice a parent would give at a graduation or wedding. like the sortof thing a parent would say if their child was going off to the army. like the kindof talk you would get before a truly life- altering event. or, worse, like the kind of confrontational talk one would have after a lifetime of pentup things--like an intervention for an alcoholic, or a break-up talk. every day she wants to talk about *status* of things. about peoples' quests for relationships, or jobs, or having children, or whatever. and another big thing is that she always acts like things are all messed up. like, maybe, *sigh*, soon they will be resolved, but for NOW, the status of things is tragically unsatisfactory. my father's income; her house. my sister's latest relationship. my position in life, as well. it's all one big tragedy, and EVERY day is judgment day. every day is that one crucial turning point, and she wants to discuss it. the other day she decided to go on with me about how she had dedicated my life to a certain saint before i was born, and that i was destined to do great things. but there is never a special day for her to talk about this sortof crap. EVERY day is the day that is appropriate for her to talk about my life like some hideous sentimental movie's teary climax. it is really annoying. can anyone relate? i haven't read any posts at all lately, it's a period where that means progress for me, so i do thank everyone for reading this. hi especially to all my old comrades--sylvia, theresa of the mini-horses, trish, katrina, laura p, getevenpersevere ... best, charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Thanks , it really does feel like brainwashing! I am feeling much stronger lately, stronger than ever, but I am finding that I STILL need to address every distortion she throws out and get my reality validated. I needed to hear that. > > Hi Charlotte, > > Welcome to brainwashing. They prattle on so long even *WE* believe it just > to shut them up. > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 NOTHING is every satisfactory for them. NOTHING is ever calm. They are drawn to misery and drama, AND they like to spred that crap too. I think they are so empty and miseriable inside, that they feel the need to put it on us to try and relief alittle of their own misery. My nada would have critizied Jesus Christ himself if she was alive when he was. My sister is a DRAMA QUEEN! oh, if there is not drama, she will percive it as such or better yet create it. Well, my sister Lynn is just " NUTS " . Spawn of the devil-HA HA HA. I can say with absolute certainy that there isn't a single time in my life I saw or felt that my nada or my 2 sister were ever happy or satisfied. How sad is that, to get no joy what so ever out of life. That is why they must spred it around to the innocent. > > Hi Charlotte, > > Welcome to brainwashing. They prattle on so long even *WE* believe it just > to shut them up. > > > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 wrote: > Welcome to brainwashing. They prattle on so long even *WE* > believe it just to shut them up. This is so true! The methods may be different, the topics may be different, but the gist always seems to be, " You need to believe whatever I say, no matter how crazy, no matter that it may be contrary to all the facts, and agree with me. It doesn't even matter if you have seen something different with your own eyes. " My mother's major theme is, " My life is terrible, and you have to take care of me, and give me things, because I'm so miserable and I *deserve* more. " A secondary theme is, " If you do not agree with me 100%, on any topic at all, then you must be against me, and out to get me somehow. " Brainwashing indeed. Only distance from her created enough perspective to help me grow stronger and sure of myself. Now that I'm older/stronger, I can be around my mother and whatever she says simply rolls off like water off a duck's back. But it took many years and lots of therapy to get to that point. Plus my contact with her is very rare. It might be harder if I were around her more often. I try to make sure she has the basics (food, shelter, and medical care--she's in an assisted living facility) but I ignore her fake emergencies and all the other crazy talk. Hugs, Marjorie Commit random acts of literacy--Join bookcrossing! http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/ahimsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 >My mother's major theme is, " My life is terrible, and you >have to take care of me, and give me things, because I'm >so miserable and I *deserve* more. " A secondary theme is, > " If you do not agree with me 100%, on any topic at all, >then you must be against me, and out to get me somehow. " Are you sure you are not describing my mom. Another theme for her is that we 'OWE' her. Also, no matter how much we try to do and how much we see her she tells everyone that we don't. It's just hopeless to think she will ever see that we are there for her. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Judgment Day ... my nada has condemned me to HELL so many times that I've come to believe that HELL on Earth is having her as a mother. Charlie, I've been alive long enough to realize that 'happiness' is a choice; and 'being happy' is a decision that we make. Some people are just going to be sad and angry, and it is not our fault. It is just an accident of biology that we got one of them as our birth mother. Some people make awful choices ... over, and over, and over, and over ......... again. That is who my nada is. She took the low road, the easy/fast track/ every time she had a really important choice in her life. And she is bitter that there was no 'wormhole' through which she could transform herself into rich/important/powerful...without doing the work. None of that is my fault. And I am old enough to realize that my nada chosen to be a loser. I didn't do that, and she is not willing to do the work in order to 'win'....the admiration that she craves. She is lazy and has indulged in her 'privileged' role far too long; and has judged herself less than real people who do their own work ... and is angry about that. And there is nothing that I can do to help her. There is nothing that I can do to change her choice...to be unhappy. Nadas will not be 'happy', primarily because they will not give up the contest...the NEED to be the best/most important/most powerful/least vulnerable...not the victim-loser; and 'drama queen' works as well an any of the other manipulative roles. My nada has settled for being the 'most pitiable' as opposed to ... anything else. We all have good things going on in our lives; it takes a conscious decision to focus on the good and put the bad in the background, to be 'happy'. I think that may be true; I am betting my life, my future, on it. They see only black and white, winner/loser; but we can see all the shades of gray. I don't think there is any reconciliation in the two ways of thinking. Nadas choose to compete; engage in a never-ending quest to win ... and we know that in order for there to be a winner there has to be losers. Nada's see themselves as jilted losers...never able to appreciate that they were good enough to be 'in the race' to begin with. It is all very sad if you think about it. Each one of has the option of measuring our-self against every other person in our circle, on the planet. I choose to be thankful, even grateful, for the good things in my life, the kindness' of others, whether they are directed toward me or humanity at large. My nada chooses to be angry and resentful about every event that is not about her. There is no reconciliation in that. What I need is for her to recognize that the survival OUR VERY SPECIES requires that parents sacrifice for their children. There is no compromise...if she were actually the Queen of the Universe, we would all become extinct the next time a party is not for her. You are the only one who can decide what is real for you. Hugs, Carol In a message dated 6/30/2006 6:19:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, charlottehoneychurch@... writes: hi everyone! i have had occasion of late to spend quite a bit of time in the company of nada dearest, and i've observed something that i don't think we've discussed yet on the board. i wanted to bring it up in case it's helpful to anyone. i've noticed that with nada, every day is judgment day. every day, every event, is that *one* big milestone, that one huge thing. it's always a *big* talk. like the advice a parent would give at a graduation or wedding. like the sortof thing a parent would say if their child was going off to the army. like the kindof talk you would get before a truly life- altering event. or, worse, like the kind of confrontational talk one would have after a lifetime of pentup things--like an intervention for an alcoholic, or a break-up talk. every day she wants to talk about *status* of things. about peoples' quests for relationships, or jobs, or having children, or whatever. and another big thing is that she always acts like things are all messed up. like, maybe, *sigh*, soon they will be resolved, but for NOW, the status of things is tragically unsatisfactory. my father's income; her house. my sister's latest relationship. my position in life, as well. it's all one big tragedy, and EVERY day is judgment day. every day is that one crucial turning point, and she wants to discuss it. the other day she decided to go on with me about how she had dedicated my life to a certain saint before i was born, and that i was destined to do great things. but there is never a special day for her to talk about this sortof crap. EVERY day is the day that is appropriate for her to talk about my life like some hideous sentimental movie's teary climax. it is really annoying. can anyone relate? i haven't read any posts at all lately, it's a period where that means progress for me, so i do thank everyone for reading this. hi especially to all my old comrades--sylvia, theresa of the mini-horses, trish, katrina, laura p, getevenpersevere ... best, charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 I wrote: >> My mother's major theme is, " My life is terrible, and you >> have to take care of me, and give me things, because I'm >> so miserable and I *deserve* more. " A secondary theme is, >> " If you do not agree with me 100%, on any topic at all, >> then you must be against me, and out to get me somehow. " Dee said: > Are you sure you are not describing my mom? They all seem to read the same " instruction manual, " don't they? LOL! > Another theme for her is that we 'OWE' her. Also, no matter > how much we try to do and how much we see her she tells > everyone that we don't. Yes, that's true. My aunt (mother's sister) used to call me to ask why I wasn't calling my mother. This was years ago when I still felt I had to explain. (Guess what? I do NOT have to explain my actions to my aunt!) Anyway, I would tell her that I had called my mother on such-and-such a day, or that I had sent this or that gift, or whatever, but my mother had told my aunt that no one was even calling her. My aunt was easily sucked into the lies my mother told, just like most people. There were times when my mother was getting money from 6-7 people at a time and none of the other people knew it. They all thought that they were the only one providing financial support for my poor, cash strapped mother, who had been completely shunned and abandoned by everyone in her family. Sheesh. Of course, all those thousands of dollars are long gone. God knows where it all went but many thousands went to the home shopping channel. Even my mother's therapist (there was a brief time of therapy, quickly abandoned) was initially sucked into a similar story because she said something like, " How sad it is when older women end up abandoned and without financial support in their later years. " And I thought, " Excuse me?! " My mother has had a very sheltered, and sometimes even pampered, life. I had to " explain " to the therapist that my mother did not always tell the whole truth. :-) Actually, the worst money story is when my mother left my father and cleaned out both joint checking accounts, the personal and the business account. She carefully took checks from the back of the checkbook so that he didn't even know until his own checks started to bounce. On top of this she took a large check from an insurance claim that had not yet been deposited. To this day, even though I have seen the cancelled checks, with her signature, I'm sure she would say that she never did any of this. Of course, the last time this topic was brought up was 4-5 years ago. Our only topics of conversation now are weather and chit-chat, and only 5-10 minutes max. You can't teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig. Hugs, Marjorie Commit random acts of literacy--Join bookcrossing! http://www.bookcrossing.com/mybookshelf/ahimsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Hi Carol and everyone, I can relate to just about everything you write here. I used to tell people when they asked about my mother " Oh, she renounced me again...and my little sister for good measure...and my 6 month old son. " But so few people understand what it is really like and that she renounces me all the time. It doesnt make it okay, but it doesn't even faze me anymore...which I realized is perhaps the saddest part. Anyway, my question for you all is this: for nadas like my mother (for whom the idea of some epiphany and treatment and getting better, etc etc is a ridiculously funny), how do you, how can you, see the person as a separate entity from the BPD? I'm having a hard time with that. I'm reading SWOE and it is great, but it did raise this issue for me. I love my frustrating nada...and I'm fighting my old impulses to try to rescue her as I realize the depth of her disorder. It feels as if I've been programmed all my life to rescue her and then I finally find out about the real demon that has been underneath it all along and I am now just trying to live with it...setting boundaries so the demon doesnt get me. And dont get me wrong, I'm ALL for the boundaries. But it just is making my heart ache to give up on her. What also makes me sad is that I dont believe my nada will never really know how much I care about her and how these boundaries I've been setting are my way of actually keeping her in my life. Thanks to you all-- Annie getevenpersevere@... wrote: Judgment Day ... my nada has condemned me to HELL so many times that I've come to believe that HELL on Earth is having her as a mother. Charlie, I've been alive long enough to realize that 'happiness' is a choice; and 'being happy' is a decision that we make. Some people are just going to be sad and angry, and it is not our fault. It is just an accident of biology that we got one of them as our birth mother. Some people make awful choices ... over, and over, and over, and over ......... again. That is who my nada is. She took the low road, the easy/fast track/ every time she had a really important choice in her life. And she is bitter that there was no 'wormhole' through which she could transform herself into rich/important/powerful...without doing the work. None of that is my fault. And I am old enough to realize that my nada chosen to be a loser. I didn't do that, and she is not willing to do the work in order to 'win'....the admiration that she craves. She is lazy and has indulged in her 'privileged' role far too long; and has judged herself less than real people who do their own work ... and is angry about that. And there is nothing that I can do to help her. There is nothing that I can do to change her choice...to be unhappy. Nadas will not be 'happy', primarily because they will not give up the contest...the NEED to be the best/most important/most powerful/least vulnerable...not the victim-loser; and 'drama queen' works as well an any of the other manipulative roles. My nada has settled for being the 'most pitiable' as opposed to ... anything else. We all have good things going on in our lives; it takes a conscious decision to focus on the good and put the bad in the background, to be 'happy'. I think that may be true; I am betting my life, my future, on it. They see only black and white, winner/loser; but we can see all the shades of gray. I don't think there is any reconciliation in the two ways of thinking. Nadas choose to compete; engage in a never-ending quest to win ... and we know that in order for there to be a winner there has to be losers. Nada's see themselves as jilted losers...never able to appreciate that they were good enough to be 'in the race' to begin with. It is all very sad if you think about it. Each one of has the option of measuring our-self against every other person in our circle, on the planet. I choose to be thankful, even grateful, for the good things in my life, the kindness' of others, whether they are directed toward me or humanity at large. My nada chooses to be angry and resentful about every event that is not about her. There is no reconciliation in that. What I need is for her to recognize that the survival OUR VERY SPECIES requires that parents sacrifice for their children. There is no compromise...if she were actually the Queen of the Universe, we would all become extinct the next time a party is not for her. You are the only one who can decide what is real for you. Hugs, Carol In a message dated 6/30/2006 6:19:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, charlottehoneychurch@... writes: hi everyone! i have had occasion of late to spend quite a bit of time in the company of nada dearest, and i've observed something that i don't think we've discussed yet on the board. i wanted to bring it up in case it's helpful to anyone. i've noticed that with nada, every day is judgment day. every day, every event, is that *one* big milestone, that one huge thing. it's always a *big* talk. like the advice a parent would give at a graduation or wedding. like the sortof thing a parent would say if their child was going off to the army. like the kindof talk you would get before a truly life- altering event. or, worse, like the kind of confrontational talk one would have after a lifetime of pentup things--like an intervention for an alcoholic, or a break-up talk. every day she wants to talk about *status* of things. about peoples' quests for relationships, or jobs, or having children, or whatever. and another big thing is that she always acts like things are all messed up. like, maybe, *sigh*, soon they will be resolved, but for NOW, the status of things is tragically unsatisfactory. my father's income; her house. my sister's latest relationship. my position in life, as well. it's all one big tragedy, and EVERY day is judgment day. every day is that one crucial turning point, and she wants to discuss it. the other day she decided to go on with me about how she had dedicated my life to a certain saint before i was born, and that i was destined to do great things. but there is never a special day for her to talk about this sortof crap. EVERY day is the day that is appropriate for her to talk about my life like some hideous sentimental movie's teary climax. it is really annoying. can anyone relate? i haven't read any posts at all lately, it's a period where that means progress for me, so i do thank everyone for reading this. hi especially to all my old comrades--sylvia, theresa of the mini-horses, trish, katrina, laura p, getevenpersevere ... best, charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 That sounds so familiar! Here's something my nada does periodically that drives me crazy. She has a bunch of (some real, some exaggerated, some imagined) chronic health problems---she isn't really sick, but she has various digestive problems and pain problems that bother her. Most of our relationship consists of her calling me to complain about these problems (for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and hour at a time---every day or so). That's bad enough, but then periodically she does this other thing, which is to say " You need to start taking more responsibility for this. I need help. You need to help me. I can't do this alone. " When I ask her what she wants me to do, she says " I don't know, you figure that out. " Note that she doesn't need any more practical help--she has a cleaning lady, who also does her laundry, and her significant other does the grocery shopping, cooking, and cleaning up. Also, I visit her at least once a week, and do errands for her, bring her things she needs, etc. I also listen to her complain alot, as I mentioned. Also, she is under the care of many doctors for all her health problems. So, as I said, there isn't much more practical stuff she needs. So I don't really know what she expects or wants me to do. She probably wants me to invite her to live with me and my husband and kids, which ain't gonna happen. But the worst part is that she won;t even say what it is she wants---she just does this " You take responsibilty; you help me " thing, which makes me want to scream. Does anyone else's nada do that, and if so, what do you do or say in response? In a message dated 7/1/2006 6:17:32 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ahimsa@... writes: I wrote: >> My mother's major theme is, " My life is terrible, and you >> have to take care of me, and give me things, because I'm >> so miserable and I *deserve* more. " A secondary theme is, >> " If you do not agree with me 100%, on any topic at all, >> then you must be against me, and out to get me somehow. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2006 Report Share Posted July 2, 2006 > > " You take responsibilty; you help me " > thing, which makes me want to scream. > > Does anyone else's nada do that, and if so, what do you do or say in > response? > > What she wants you to do is to fill the big black void inside of her. She can't tell you what she wants specifically because she doesn't even know what it is she needs. It was an affirmation for me to learn about BPD and the emptyness inside a BP. I could never please my mom either or do enough. I also read in the How to Hug a Porcupine book that constant complaining and negativity is a form of abuse. It is very toxic to the person on the receiving end of things. I believe that it is. It drains me to talk to my mother for any length of time. I have learned to cut the calls to 10 -15 minutes. My mother always has a physical ailment to moan about. She has had macular degeneration and her sight has been dimming for over 20 years. But to hear it from her, it is like she just found out and it started yesterday. Over and over and over she asks " Have I told you I am losing my sight? " She just can't accept that or any of the other changes which occur naturally with age. I joke and tell my sisters mom could just make a recording and save her self the energy of saying these things everyday. We could then make a recording of " Oh, mmmmm, really, uh huh, etc and we could both skip the calls. LOL Just realize there is probably nothing you can do that would please her or make her happy. There is nothing you can do she just wants to keep you hooked by continuing to demand something impossible to give. These people think if they let up for a minute we will disappear into thin air. They think they have to nag, whine, cry, complain and control every minute or we will forget them and run off. Much of it is about abandonment. I know how wearing and exhausting these kind of calls are. I am finally reaching a stage where I can let most of it run off. I even hold the phone away from my ear part of the time so I don't hear those same words over and over. It can about drive you nuts!!! I've quit trying to figure out how to help her be happy. It isn't possible. I actually went two days in a row without agonizing over whether I should call her. I actually got so involved in MY life that I sort of forgot her. I think that is a sign of good progress on my part. Sadly, the thing a BP fears the most is you forgetting them. You have to forget them at least some of the time in order to survive. It's just a truth we have to accept to find our own happiness. Dee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.