RE: Re: Vliet experience

[Guest guest]

Hi Karin,

When Dr. Vliet first put me on oral E, my E levels were low and I was having a lot of hot flashes. So, when I continued to have hot flashes on the prescribed dosage or oral E, I assumed that my levels were still low and took more...and more.

At my next phone consult with Vliet, when I told her how much oral E I was taking (every four hours around the clock) to keep hot flashes at bay, she said "Stop! You can't do that. That's too much estradiol. Hot flashes are not just from low levels, they can also be from falling levels."

She determined that since I would get hot flashes about four hours after taking the oral estradiol, that I was metabolizing it very rapidly.I do take thyroid, currently 2 grains of Armour. I haven't been aware of a confict between the thyroid and E but there is so much going on in the way of symptoms, I could have missed that one. I did notice sleep improving initially when I started the thyroid.

I do not have any nights of sufficient sleep anymore but I've pretty much determined that low or fluctuating E is not the primary cause. When E is fluctuating or low, sleep is even worse. When E is sufficient and relatively steady, sleep is better but there is something else going on besides that.

It can be difficult to sort out what's causing your lack of sleep, I know. Vliet's approach was that the first thing to do was to get FSH levels down below 20 and she said E would usually have to be above 90 to do that. Do you know what your FSH level and E level are?

Reply-To: rhythmicliving To: rhythmicliving Subject: Re: Vliet experienceDate: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 22:26:12 -0000Wow that was a very interesting post. When Vliet measured your E and the different methods that were used how did she qualify that you went thru or metabolized the E very quickly? Do you use Thyroid hormones? Are there any times that you actually sleep well?There are some nights that I sleep well and some that I don't and I still can't figure out why.I think if I take E drops too close to bedtime I get a disjointed sleep. I am currently using .1mg vivelle and some additional drops and would like to get more even levels of E. I feel right now that my E and thyroid may kind of work against each other.(Read so many conflicting reports that E helps thyroid or that E works against thyroid).I think if I can get my Dr to let me try 2 patches at a time that might help.Karinclick here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Hatfield wrote: Hot flashes are not just from low levels, they can also be from falling levels." She determined that since I would get hot flashes about four hours after taking the oral estradiol, that I was metabolizing it very rapidly. So what was her answer to resolving the issue of metabolizing too fast??? I do take thyroid, currently 2 grains of Armour. I haven't been aware of a confict between the thyroid and E but there is so much going on in the way of symptoms, I could have missed that one. My guess is that there is indeed an interaction between E and thyroid, but it is very delicate. You need enough E to get the

thyroid working properly but too much E will whack it too. So we are back to balance and that is different for everyone. Some experts say get thyroid up to par first and others say get hormones (E/P) up to par first. So there we are ..... Madeleen click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

Vliet's answser to metabolizing E too fast was to try other delivery methods that would be absorbed more steadily. First we tried E injections; next we tried the patch. Both caused wild fluctuations.

On my own, I found that using the patch and 2 Femrings and staggering them so that I was starting a new Femring every 2 weeks (each Femring lasted a month) and a new patch every 2 days, kept the levels pretty steady. Vliet was fine with that combination.Got it on the balance thing. That has been the tricky part for me....so far.

Reply-To: rhythmicliving To: rhythmicliving Subject: RE: Re: Vliet experienceDate: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:42:59 -0800 (PST) Hatfield wrote:

Hot flashes are not just from low levels, they can also be from falling levels."

She determined that since I would get hot flashes about four hours after taking the oral estradiol, that I was metabolizing it very rapidly.

So what was her answer to resolving the issue of metabolizing too fast???

I do take thyroid, currently 2 grains of Armour. I haven't been aware of a confict between the thyroid and E but there is so much going on in the way of symptoms, I could have missed that one.

My guess is that there is indeed an interaction between E and thyroid, but it is very delicate. You need enough E to get the thyroid working properly but too much E will whack it too. So we are back to balance and that is different for everyone. Some experts say get thyroid up to par first and others say get hormones (E/P) up to par first. So there we are .....

Madeleen

click here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

E binds thyroid. That is not a big deal though. If your own thyroid works, it will naturally produce more when you use E. If your own thyroid doesn't work, just take a bit more thyroid. I upped my E gel from 1.5 mg to 3 mg. Started really dragging myself around. So I dropped that back to 2.25 mg and upped my T4 by 13 mcg. Seems to work fine now.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]

My guess is that there is indeed an interaction between E and thyroid, but it is very delicate. You need enough E to get the thyroid working properly but too much E will whack it too. So we are back to balance and that is different for everyone. Some experts say get thyroid up to par first and others say get hormones (E/P) up to par first. So there we are .....

[Guest guest]

was wondering cause the odd dose increase....what are the mcgs. in ????? per tablet, thanks,

[Guest guest]

I buy a T4 from Mexico. I can't tolerate Armour or any T3. Causes my BP to shoot sky-high.

Val

-----Original Message-----From: rhythmicliving [mailto:rhythmicliving ]On Behalf Of Nuimom@...

upped my T4 by 13 mcg. Seems to work fine now.

Val

Val, what kind of thyroid meds do you use???

[Guest guest]

When someone is hyperthyroid it creates bone loss (to me that is basically low E due to too much thyroid). I think one of the hardest things is to balance E and thyroid

Well put, and without enough E we don't retain our minerals, so needed for health:))

[Guest guest]

I know Estrogen binds Thyroid...but I have never seen any scientific

articles or references saying that Thyroid (either T3 or T4) binds or

lowers Estrogen. Have you? I would be curious about this....it's a bone

of contention on some other lists as well.

At 12:18 PM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

In a message dated

2/27/2006 5:39:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, bigbird3099@...

writes:

When someone is hyperthyroid it creates

bone loss (to me that is basically low E due to too much thyroid). I

think one of the hardest

things is to balance E and thyroid

Well put, and without enough E we don't retain our minerals,

so needed for health:))

click here for our webpage

http://rhythmicliving.com/

**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended

as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

is that because low E, means low SHBG and low SHBG means more of thyroid hormone unbound? -J.Nuimom@... wrote: When someone is hyperthyroid it creates bone loss (to me that is basically low E due to too much thyroid). I think one of the hardest things is to balance E and thyroid Well put, and without enough E we don't retain our minerals, so needed for health:))

#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare

[Guest guest]

I thought SHBG binds only testosterone and estrogen, not

thyroid....because thyroid is not a sex hormone. There is something

else called Thryoid Hormone Binding Globulin that binds thyroid. I

thought Thyroid Hormone Binding Globulin results from high levels of

estrogen.

At 12:43 PM 2/27/2006, you wrote:

is that because low E, means low

SHBG and low SHBG means more of thyroid hormone unbound?

-J.

Nuimom@... wrote:

In a message dated 2/27/2006 5:39:55 AM Pacific Standard

Time, bigbird3099@... writes:

When someone is hyperthyroid it creates

bone loss (to me that is basically low E due to too much thyroid). I

think one of the hardest

things is to balance E and thyroid

Well put, and without enough E we don't retain our minerals,

so needed for health:))

#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare

click here for our webpage

http://rhythmicliving.com/

**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not intended

as medical advice.**

[Guest guest]

from what i understand SHBG binds T, E and some other hormones like DHEA for example *hence my DHEA went up after quitting bcp*, but i am not positive...and you're absolutely right about TBG...but i don't remember the co-relation with estrogen levels..i know Vliet has a diagram on this, i'll review it tonight... Also, in his book Reiss says that BCPs are bad cuz they bind all the age fighting hormones, promoting rapid aging..so i am thinking, he means HGH, DHEA, melatonin?! -J.richkare@... wrote: I thought SHBG binds only testosterone and estrogen, not thyroid....because thyroid is not a sex hormone. There is something else called Thryoid Hormone Binding Globulin that binds thyroid. I thought Thyroid Hormone Binding Globulin results from high levels of

estrogen.At 12:43 PM 2/27/2006, you wrote: is that because low E, means low SHBG and low SHBG means more of thyroid hormone unbound? -J.Nuimom@... wrote: When someone is hyperthyroid it creates bone loss (to me that is basically low E due to too much thyroid). I think one of the hardest things is to balance E and thyroid Well put, and without enough E we don't retain our minerals, so needed for health:)) #define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeareclick here for our webpage http://rhythmicliving.com/**The group conversation is informational in nature and is not

intended as medical advice.**