RE: Thanks

October 16, 2005

Yep, I had to lie too. I had to sit there while she projected all her

behavior onto me in front of counselors, psychiatrists, etc etc etc., and

look *happy* about it. I had to tell her that I was happy (I used to cry

myself to sleep) simply in order to avoid a(nother) thrashing.

I'd lied out of fear of my life; my reasons for lying were real alright, and

that meant I'd actually survived (which I didn't think I would).

I had the same questions you have; is there a support email list for

survivors of child abuse where you are? They can be supremely useful in

advising on counselors, etc.

thanks

i want to thank all of you for writing such encouraging things. first

of all i should say that i am still in high school, and i have talked

with counselors and things so i think i am good there. i can't help

but get this creepy crawly feeling becuase i catch myself doing things

like my mom and it makes me want to cut my arm off or something. like

right now, posting on some website. this is what she used to do to

get " support " for all her " problems " and use it against everyone else,

and the fact that noone in her reality could " understand " .

is there a way to stop feeling like that, just in everyday things and

actions? because i feel like i am cursed for the rest of my life to

have to watch myself to make sure i don't slip into that abyss. should

that even be a concern? rrr...the lines and sanity and right and wrong

are all blurred for me right now. becuase i am slowly coming to

realize that everything in my life before now was a lie. and i am

trying to figure out if that means i am a lie, too. whew. i can't wait

until i can maybe figure things out and not have to THINK so much

about EVERYTHING. it's exhausting but thanks again to everyone for

the good advice. mucho appreciated.

-motorlegs13

Send questions and/or concerns to ModOasis-owner

" Stop Walking on Eggshells, " a primer for non-BPs, can be ordered via

1-888-35-SHELL () and for the table of contents, go to:

http://www.BPDCentral.com

October 17, 2005

Motorlegs,

What you are feeling is a normal response. I would be so embarrassed going out

in public

as a teenager because I could feel my mom coming out of me. Just because my mom

owns the whole catholic faith doesn't mean I should stop loving God. They are

good at

gathering all the resources in their corner. Don't feel like you are being her

for seeking

advice. She doesn't have a corner on the market! Clearing the fog of BP takes

time and as

you separate from your mom and figure out who you are, she won't dominate as

much of

your thought patterns. It has only been in the past year that I have really

limited my

contact with my mother. This has allowed me to focus positively on myself and

you know

what, I am not so bad. I am talented at a lot of things and I am not the

negative person

she portrayed me as. My biggest fear in life was becoming her but now I realize

that

having that fear allows her to still have control over me. Control over my mind

even when

she is not around. I think once you get some stability in your life you will

have time to

reflect on what your goals are. Once you can meditate on that inner person

inside you,

you will realize that you are not like your mom. She has trained you to be like

her but it is

not necessarily instinctual. Your situation brings tears to my eyes because it

rings so true

to my own life. I would suggest reading " understanding the borderline mother "

by

Lawson. I know that your resources are limited since you are still in

high school

but I would be willing to send you a copy if you email me. I think it is that

important.

Stay strong and be at peace,

Meg

>

> i want to thank all of you for writing such encouraging things. first

> of all i should say that i am still in high school, and i have talked

> with counselors and things so i think i am good there. i can't help

> but get this creepy crawly feeling becuase i catch myself doing things

> like my mom and it makes me want to cut my arm off or something. like

> right now, posting on some website. this is what she used to do to

> get " support " for all her " problems " and use it against everyone else,

> and the fact that noone in her reality could " understand " .

> is there a way to stop feeling like that, just in everyday things and

> actions? because i feel like i am cursed for the rest of my life to

> have to watch myself to make sure i don't slip into that abyss. should

> that even be a concern? rrr...the lines and sanity and right and wrong

> are all blurred for me right now. becuase i am slowly coming to

> realize that everything in my life before now was a lie. and i am

> trying to figure out if that means i am a lie, too. whew. i can't wait

> until i can maybe figure things out and not have to THINK so much

> about EVERYTHING. it's exhausting but thanks again to everyone for

> the good advice. mucho appreciated.

> -motorlegs13

>

October 17, 2005

A few months after I graduated from high school, my fada told me to pack my

stuff and get out of the house. From my late teens to mid-twenties, there were

more than a few things I did that mimicked fada’s behavior and it was not

healthy. I was physically violent, verbally and emotionally abusive as well. I

could cut people to ribbons with the sharpness of my tongue, go into incredible

histrionics…many of the same BPD characteristics of fada. It was so difficult

for me to control my behavior and stop acting out. I was afraid that I would

end up being like my FOO. I think that therapy would have been of tremendous

help to me at the time. But the good news is that as I gained experience in the

real world, I leveled out quite a bit and developed my own personality apart

from fada and dishrag nada. It really does take time and patience to heal.

Keep coming back to the group, it helps to know that you’re not alone in this.

It also helps that you know what is wrong and it’s not

you (I didn’t have a clue for years). And be kind to yourself.

Cheers,

Sakura

>i want to thank all of you for writing such encouraging things. first

>of all i should say that i am still in high school, and i have talked

>with counselors and things so i think i am good there. i can't help

>but get this creepy crawly feeling becuase i catch myself doing things

>like my mom and it makes me want to cut my arm off or something. like

>right now, posting on some website. this is what she used to do to

>get " support " for all her " problems " and use it against everyone else,

>and the fact that noone in her reality could " understand " .

>is there a way to stop feeling like that, just in everyday things and

>actions? because i feel like i am cursed for the rest of my life to

>have to watch myself to make sure i don't slip into that abyss. should

>that even be a concern? rrr...the lines and sanity and right and wrong

>are all blurred for me right now. becuase i am slowly coming to

>realize that everything in my life before now was a lie. and i am

>trying to figure out if that means i am a lie, too. whew. i can't wait

>until i can maybe figure things out and not have to THINK so much

>about EVERYTHING. it's exhausting but thanks again to everyone for

>the good advice. mucho appreciated.

>-motorlegs13

October 18, 2005

hi motorlegs 13

i completely understand what you mean. i too a few years back in

highschool realized that my entire identity and life has been built

on lies..on a fictional world created by a BP mom..

i think each of us has to go through this process- the process to

this reality dawning upon you, of being thrown into a whirl of

confusion where everything that defines you is suddenly in

question.. but believe me, it is important to accept each stage of

this process since in acceptance, comes cleansing..

and with cleansing and purification emerges an entirely new

identity, one that is unshakable.

This was the defining moment of my life..it is an empowering moment-

to know that you alone have the strength to emerge victorious.. that

despite the fact that the very foundation of your identity was

shaken, you had the courage to redefine yourself.

I wish you the best in this journey..

hugs and best wishes

lotus flower.

>

> i want to thank all of you for writing such encouraging things.

first

> of all i should say that i am still in high school, and i have

talked

> with counselors and things so i think i am good there. i can't

help

> but get this creepy crawly feeling becuase i catch myself doing

things

> like my mom and it makes me want to cut my arm off or something.

like

> right now, posting on some website. this is what she used to do to

> get " support " for all her " problems " and use it against everyone

else,

> and the fact that noone in her reality could " understand " .

> is there a way to stop feeling like that, just in everyday things

and

> actions? because i feel like i am cursed for the rest of my life

to

> have to watch myself to make sure i don't slip into that abyss.

should

> that even be a concern? rrr...the lines and sanity and right and

wrong

> are all blurred for me right now. becuase i am slowly coming to

> realize that everything in my life before now was a lie. and i am

> trying to figure out if that means i am a lie, too. whew. i can't

wait

> until i can maybe figure things out and not have to THINK so much

> about EVERYTHING. it's exhausting but thanks again to everyone

for

> the good advice. mucho appreciated.

> -motorlegs13

>

November 14, 2005

Georgialady,

Its okay to fall short of your expectations of yourself. I know I've

done that time and time again. The thing I'm learning though is that

maybe sometimes I set my expectations too high and that being perfect

or less than courageous or still feeling parts of my childhood

dictating my present moments is okay. The world doesn't stop on its

axis when I mess up though that's not what I was raised to believe.

Whenever I messed up in childhood, all hell broke loose and you'd

think by the rage I got from nada that I hung the moon and just

jerked it from the sky. I wasn't raised by people who were

emotionally mature and therefore not really adults and so how would I

know how to be an adult? I have to learn it from the outside in-

backa$$wards from what most people do in life.

By the way, the fact that you posted what you did and shared your

feelings, your honesty and introspections are things I consider very

courageous. For me, even the notion sometimes of sharing all these

dark feelings and experiences is just overwhelming and embarrassing.

THe fact that you can and did post here is huge in my book. Not

something I'd discount. It took me a while of lurking several years

ago before I ever shared and then I feared being misunderstood and

lot and didn't even open up online, KWIM? Everyone measures successes

and failures differently. Your yardstick will be different than mine

and so I guess I'm saying its okay to be less than perfect by your

own standards. The fact that you are trying is more than most ever

get to and I do think introspection and posting here are very much an

effort of trying to break the cycle of abuse.

Best wishes.

Kerrie

>

> Thank You to all of you who responded to my post. The support I

find

> here is over whelming and I can't tell you enough how much it is

> appreciated.

>

> However, I am ashamed to report that I did not find my courage and

did

> not take a stand when I spoke to Nada on the phone today. As every

> other time in the past my inner child came out and my courage

stayed

> stifled in the background and I did nothing. Always afraid of

> confrontation and feel ill equipped, for now, to take a stand. I

have

> such inner turmoil... " let it go, what did it hurt " ... " be an adult

and

> say what needs to be said " ....

>

> I pray that with all the insight I get from this board as well as

all

> the books/articles I am reading that I will be able to make sence

of

> it all before long. For now I will just continue building my

> aresenal. I just hope I know when the time is right and go about

it

> all the right way.

>

> Thanks again for all your support and knowledge!

>

November 14, 2005

Hi Georgialady_bug,

No worries!...The thing about nadas is, that even if

you were to " take a stand, " it would just bounce right

off them and back onto you.

As and others have written, nadas are incapable

of self-reflection, introspection, etc. But they're

adept at reflecting what you tell them (in a very

distorted, twisted way) back to you.

For me, the " stand " is internal. It's about my setting

boundaries, understanding her mental illenss, Randi's

3Cs (did not cause, can't control, can only take care

of myself. And also every day, I still deal with my

feelings of " guilt " over stuff that I never did, or

never was given the chance to do b/c of nada's

continuous abuse.

Maybe, for now, " taking a stand " could possibly mean,

taking the stand to be here on this Board. For me,

that's the greatest stand I've ever taken against

nada. And it's done me a lot more good than any time

I tried to " confront " nada. Confronting my nada just

makes me a totem pole for more of her abuse.

So, FWIW, I'm proud of you for taking the stand to be

here. That takes a tremendous amount of courage!

Hugs,

Lula

--- georgialady_bug wrote:

> Thank You to all of you who responded to my post.

> The support I find

> here is over whelming and I can't tell you enough

> how much it is

> appreciated.

>

> However, I am ashamed to report that I did not find

> my courage and did

> not take a stand when I spoke to Nada on the phone

> today. As every

> other time in the past my inner child came out and

> my courage stayed

> stifled in the background and I did nothing. Always

> afraid of

> confrontation and feel ill equipped, for now, to

> take a stand. I have

> such inner turmoil... " let it go, what did it

> hurt " ... " be an adult and

> say what needs to be said " ....

>

> I pray that with all the insight I get from this

> board as well as all

> the books/articles I am reading that I will be able

> to make sence of

> it all before long. For now I will just continue

> building my

> aresenal. I just hope I know when the time is right

> and go about it

> all the right way.

>

> Thanks again for all your support and knowledge!

>

__________________________________

Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005

http://mail.yahoo.com

November 14, 2005

One of the things I have learned about recovery in general and " KO

recovery " in particular is that very often the external behaviours

are the last thing to change. And as KOs, we all tend to have

unrealistically high expectations of ourselves. We are dealing with

real abuse and trauma issues here, but we have trouble believing in

that, because we have trouble believing that it's not

something " wrong with us " that makes some things in our lives so

difficult.

Maybe you needed to take your newfound understanding of the way you

have been interacting with your nada into this conversation, and go

through the same old pattern in order to process it enough to get

cognitively ready to change it. It's not a failure, it's a normal

stage of learning. It changes us, when we go through our old

patterns with our emotional eyes open instead of closed.

In this case, maybe part of the eye-opening process for you would be

to give a truthful answer to the " what did it hurt? " question from

your old thinking pattern of " let it go, what did it hurt? " . From my

own history, I would say that giving into my nada inappropriately, or

tolerating abuse from her, hurt my feelings, hurt my self-defence

instincts, hurt my view of the Universe, hurt the health of my

relationship with the outside world as a whole, AND hurt my nada by

helping her to stay stuck in the sick BP thinking pattern and sending

her the message that what she was doing was acceptable. Only you can

answer the question properly for yourself, though.

As KOs, we were denied the opportunty to learn experientially,

because we were systematically " programmed " to deny the value or

validity or truth of our own experience -- everything was all about

nada or fada, because we were not expected or even allowed to treat

ourselves as real, legitimate people.

Going through a conversation with nada where you consciously

experience how you avoid confrontation and explicitly and implicitly

give in to her may be a legitimate and necessary part of the work you

are doing to re-parent yourself. We all have to do this work, one

way or another. This groups helps us to not have to do it alone.

Maybe this conversation, and the way you felt afterwards, is an

opportunity to consciously honour how much self-betrayal you were

forced into as a child. Maybe, inside your head, you need to take

the child that you were, and tell her that you see how much she had

to hurt and deny herself in order to survive her nada, and tell her

that the " adult you " understands the wrongness and the hurtfulness of

it.

A lot of our recovery is, one way or another, about honouring OUR

experience, OUR truth, OUR reality. Our childhoods were constant

distortion campaigns, so it doesn't necessarily feel like we have the

right to do this, or even the ability. But, in fact, we can.

It may be that what you are feeling after this last conversation with

your nada, is actually part of your particular process of honouring

your childhood experience. This could be healing, not failure! (Of

course, like with many physical wounds, healing our " KO wounds " is

not always a painless process, especially when we're opening up old

scars to let old poison drain out.)

As far as the time being right and going about it the right way, my

experience is that when the " stars are aligned " for you to make deep

changes in the relationship dynamic with your nada, it will probably

feel like you are letting the right thing happen, rather than trying

to make it happen.

Hugs,

>

> Thank You to all of you who responded to my post. The support I

find

> here is over whelming and I can't tell you enough how much it is

> appreciated.

>

> However, I am ashamed to report that I did not find my courage and

did

> not take a stand when I spoke to Nada on the phone today. As every

> other time in the past my inner child came out and my courage

stayed

> stifled in the background and I did nothing. Always afraid of

> confrontation and feel ill equipped, for now, to take a stand. I

have

> such inner turmoil... " let it go, what did it hurt " ... " be an adult

and

> say what needs to be said " ....

>

> I pray that with all the insight I get from this board as well as

all

> the books/articles I am reading that I will be able to make sence

of

> it all before long. For now I will just continue building my

> aresenal. I just hope I know when the time is right and go about

it

> all the right way.

>

> Thanks again for all your support and knowledge!

>

November 14, 2005

Georgia Lady Bug,

Love your name! Please don't feel ashamed. This is all a process.

and part of the process is to intellectually understand what is

happening. Dealing with all those emotions that we have held inside

of ourselves since we were little tots is yet another thing. Do you

know how brave it is to admit that you didn't do what you said you

were going to do! That is so awesome! You just keep on taking care

of your inner child.

There have been innumerable times that I have not done what I planned

on doing. I now understand that is a benefit, not a detriment. I

can change my plans according to the circumstances. And, at times, I

did try to do more than I was emotionally able to do so at the time.

This was another learning experience for me - for you too?

Just know - here you are accepted exactly as you are. You don't have

to do anything else to get that acceptance.

Please have a emotionally safe and restful evening.

Sylvia

>

> Thank You to all of you who responded to my post. The support I

find

> here is over whelming and I can't tell you enough how much it is

> appreciated.

>

> However, I am ashamed to report that I did not find my courage and

did

> not take a stand when I spoke to Nada on the phone today. As every

> other time in the past my inner child came out and my courage

stayed

> stifled in the background and I did nothing. Always afraid of

> confrontation and feel ill equipped, for now, to take a stand. I

have

> such inner turmoil... " let it go, what did it hurt " ... " be an adult

and

> say what needs to be said " ....

>

> I pray that with all the insight I get from this board as well as

all

> the books/articles I am reading that I will be able to make sence

of

> it all before long. For now I will just continue building my

> aresenal. I just hope I know when the time is right and go about

it

> all the right way.

>

> Thanks again for all your support and knowledge!

>

January 31, 2009

Just wanted to pop in to say thank you for everything you all have done for me.

I may not be regular in the group for a few more days, but I am reading and will

be back full time just as soon as I can handle it emotionally. I love you all

and I am praying for you.

Hugs............

Diane

February 1, 2009

diane i love you. ((((((((HUGS))))))xoxoxoxo sandra

________________________________

To: Cirrhosis Support Group <livercirrhosissupport >

Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 12:33:41 AM

Subject: RE: Thanks

Just wanted to pop in to say thank you for everything you all have done for me.

I may not be regular in the group for a few more days, but I am reading and will

be back full time just as soon as I can handle it emotionally. I love you all

and I am praying for you.

Hugs......... ....

Diane

February 1, 2009

diane ,my friend, i am in awe of you! even through your greif and

pain ,to see you still have compassion for us is amazing. i feel i

wouldnt be able to leave my bed in the event of losing bobby glenn.

your stranghth love and compassion for others amazes me, you are a

true angel here on earth and i love you. you take as much time as you

need dont worry about us we will be right here waiting for you.i

think about you every moment of every day and i am glad you posted so

i know you are somewhat ok. i love you my friend ,see you soon till

then hugs and more hugs are sent to you!!!!!!!!!!all my love respect

and prayers barby

>

> Just wanted to pop in to say thank you for everything you all have

done for me. I may not be regular in the group for a few more days,

but I am reading and will be back full time just as soon as I can

handle it emotionally. I love you all and I am praying for you.

>

> Hugs............

> Diane

>

February 1, 2009

Great to see your post, my friend Diane. I think about you so often. You know

we're all here for you.You do okay during all the ice and snow last week? We

here in Ohio had 4 days off school...snow emergencies for 6 days. it was awful.

But we were fortunate....we had power and phone service...even TV. Today the sun

is shining!! YIPPEE!!!

Love,Jill

We don't remember days, we remember moments.

Life is not measured by the breaths we take,but by the moments that take our

breath away.

Subject: RE: Thanks

To: " Cirrhosis Support Group " <livercirrhosissupport >

Date: Sunday, February 1, 2009, 12:33 AM

Just wanted to pop in to say thank you for everything you all have done for me.

I may not be regular in the group for a few more days, but I am reading and will

be back full time just as soon as I can handle it emotionally. I love you all

and I am praying for you.

Hugs........ ....

Diane

February 1, 2009

Thank you . I love you too sweetie. I know you're going through a

difficult time and I am praying for you.

Many warm hugs...........

Diane

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 5:47:05 AM

Subject: Re: RE: Thanks

diane i love you. ((((((((HUGS) )))))xoxoxoxo sandra

____________ _________ _________ __

From: diane chandler <dianechandler@ att.net>

To: Cirrhosis Support Group <livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com>

Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 12:33:41 AM

Subject: RE: Thanks

Just wanted to pop in to say thank you for everything you all have done for me.

I may not be regular in the group for a few more days, but I am reading and will

be back full time just as soon as I can handle it emotionally. I love you all

and I am praying for you.

Hugs........ . ....

Diane

February 1, 2009

It's not my strength Barby, it is the Lord. I couldn not do this without Him.

I love you too my precious friend. You hold on to BG and push those doctors to

give him the very best care available and push him to GO GET IT!!!! Tell him I

said so and to do it FOR U!!!!

Luv and hugs.........

Diane

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 9:43:54 AM

Subject: Re: Thanks