A penny into the wishing well

[Guest guest]

We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively and a

great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine

meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday soon

this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and advice

that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT literature is

great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we can

discover what is universal to us all.

[Guest guest]

I've been checking this group everyday, but haven't been posting b/c

I'm waiting for other people to post first. I know, that's not a

good reason, but I didn't want to be the only one posting, especially

since I am very self-conscious and afraid of sounding annoying.

This group has been very helpful so far to me - I will definitely

make more of an effort to post.

>

> We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

>

> When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively and

a

> great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

> diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

> lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine

> meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

>

> I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday

soon

> this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and advice

> that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT literature

is

> great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we can

> discover what is universal to us all.

>

[Guest guest]

I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been

realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support and

direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems to be

(once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous phone

calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. When I

read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of therapy and

yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego, I only

found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even remotely

heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing to work

with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that the only

problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can change the

way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we think.

And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that I have no

control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not something

that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank account --

it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word machine

is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not to get

caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really being

part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated but

things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe people

were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or

maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.

Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either but I'm

hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!!

A penny into the wishing well

We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively and a

great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine

meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday soon

this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and advice

that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT literature is

great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we can

discover what is universal to us all.

[Guest guest]

Hi Irene,

I really commend you for searching and calling so many therapists--you are

determined! Your therapist sounds a bit confused, as it's my understanding

that ACT doesn't believe or disbelieve in too much of anything. I'd have

to agree that ACT is not about changing or fixing thoughts, and more about

how we hold our thoughts. I think over time as we hold our thoughts differently,

some likely do change. But this is not the focus or aim of ACT. But yeah,

if she is saying something like this, it's likely she would push for this

as a valued goal.

I sure do share your frustrations--I'm also having difficulty in my large

city locating therapists who are ACT friendly. Have found only one! There

are several in the Los Angeles area, but that would be a huge trip for you.

I suppose ACT is a lot newer than we realize. As I compare it to the time

line of other therapies, it's really only in it's infancy. I also find that

it's no guarantee that an ACT practitioner will have sound clinical skills.

In other words, someone may be versed in ACT but new to doing therapy in

general. Or may be new to using ACT. Perhaps it's more important to find

a good therapist with experience and sound clinical skills, one who we really

connect or "click" with, one is who is open to using ACT, and one respects

your desire to actively integrate the workbook material into treatment.

Another suggestion--some of the therapists who use and know of mindfulness

work will likely be more open to using ACT. There is a lot of Existentialism

and Humanistic theory in ACT, so someone with these orientations might be

game to jump in with you.

Yes, I find I need to keep practicing ACT too--it's a new way of relating

to myself, a new way of relating to everything. I have let my practice

of meditation slack off, and I feel it. I see how important this is, practicing

this mindfulness work. Another thing that has been very helpful (not necessarily

in the ACT book) is using a journal. I decided today to return to my private

writing which is very helpful--sort of a written way to defuse from my thoughts,

feelings, beliefs--and bring myself back to the present. I write non-stop,

without editing and with an open mind, willing to be surprised, willing to

be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud, and usually get an 'aha' from

this! It's very helpful for me for many reasons--cathartic, lends distance,

objectivity, increases awareness of patterns, and calms me down. So very

grounding. So that's where I'm at. :-)

Thanks for starting this thread, Usable Thought. What sort of specific

things are folks working on? Where are people getting stuck? Where are people

finding flow/progress?

Best,

Joanne

Folk, Irene wrote:

I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been

realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support and

direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems to be

(once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous phone

calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. When I

read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of therapy and

yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego, I only

found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even remotely

heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing to work

with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that the only

problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can change the

way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we think.

And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that I have no

control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not something

that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank account --

it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word machine

is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not to get

caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really being

part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated but

things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe people

were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or

maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.

Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either but I'm

hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!!

A penny into the wishing well

We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively and a

great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine

meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday soon

this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and advice

that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT literature is

great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we can

discover what is universal to us all.

[Guest guest]

" I write non-stop, without editing and with an open mind, willing to

be surprised, willing to be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud,

and usually get an 'aha' from this! "

Thanks for this reminder - I used to (try) to do stream of

consciousness writing and it was really helpful. I do A LOT of self-

editing, and I end up detaching from myself and writing about what I

think my thoughts SHOULD be instead of what they ARE.

I've been struggling with being able to allow myself to have very

upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. I tell

myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't

have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, " okay, thank you

very much for those thoughts " , but it's so hard, and the upsetting

thoughts end up getting even more upsetting.

I'm also struggling with not criticizing myself for not

being " perfect " at ACT - I tell myself I should be better at it by

now. But I would guess that being perfect at ACT is a

contradiction. I try to work on allowing myself to be imperfect -

but then I end up trying to be perfectly imperfect...

>

> >

> > I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been

> > realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support and

> > direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems

to be

> > (once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous

phone

> > calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. When

I

> > read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of

therapy and

> > yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego, I

only

> > found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even

remotely

> > heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing

to work

> > with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that the

only

> > problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can

change the

> > way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we

think.

> > And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that I

have no

> > control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not

something

> > that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank

account --

> > it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word

machine

> > is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not to

get

> > caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really

being

> > part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated but

> > things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe

people

> > were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or

> > maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.

> > Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either

but I'm

> > hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!!

> >

> > A penny into the wishing well

> >

> > We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

> >

> > When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively

and a

> > great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

> > diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

> > lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like

alpine

> > meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

> >

> > I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday

soon

> > this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and

advice

> > that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT

literature is

> > great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we

can

> > discover what is universal to us all.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

--- Joanne Hersh wrote:

> I'm also having difficulty in my large city locating therapists

> who are ACT friendly. Have found only one!

As I may have mentioned at some point, I have stopped seeing the

therapist I had found in New York City who said he practiced ACT, but

who in my opinion didn't. ACT isn't just CBT plus mindfulness, as this

guy believed; the values work is crucial, and his repertoire was too

limited for me to work with. Nor was he into learning new techniques.

I worry that ACT may have a hard time spreading in this country

because it is so radical and requires so much bravery - maybe more so

for therapists than for clients! If you've spent many years of your

adult life becoming an expert in a traditional therapy, it must be

very hard to take on something that defines your expertise as part of

the problem!

Also, in my opinion, the medical insurance system in this country is

more interested in palative therapies designed to preserve cultural

hegemony and keep people from rocking the boat. When I did a course of

CBT about 10 years ago and expressed concern about the crappy values

of the corporation I was working at, my therapist tried to argue me

out of my position, saying that I was being too judgemental. Looking

back it seems clear to me that she was defending a status quo in which

corporate America served as her paymaster, working through the

insurance system. Ooh, that sounds Marxist, doesn't it?

So a therapy as challenging as ACT may be a tough sell. It's not tame,

it's wild. It could change the culture, one person at a time. Can this

happen? I would like to think there's hope, but I'm not sure.

On the other hand the above is all " mind-y " stuff - very judgemental,

even as that therapist said. I would like to connect with people who

believe other things than I do - to bridge the gap. So I'll have to

stay open, even on subjects my mind has lots of thoughts about.

[Guest guest]

One more post, and then I'm going to shut up and listen for awhile!

Here's what I just posted about traditional therapy:

> When I did a course of CBT about 10 years ago and expressed concern

> about the crappy values of the corporation I was working at,

> my therapist tried to argue me out of my position, saying that

> I was being too judgemental. Looking back it seems clear to me

> that she was defending a status quo in which corporate America

> served as her paymaster, working through the insurance system.

It occurs to me that what she might have been reacting to was the

black vs. white, all-or-nothing thinking I was exhibiting. So in

classic CBT fashion, she might have been trying to coax me into

replacing my dysfunctional thinking with more realistic thoughts that

admitted shades of gray.

However the way she went about it inadvertently reinforced my position

rather than weakened it - I responded very defensively, as the above

makes clear. There were also overtones of her really wanting to argue

in favor of corporations, but let's put that aside for now.

An ACT therapist might have proceeded differently: " So you're saying

you don't agree with the values of the company you're working for.

Okay, so what positive value does this define for you? And how are you

acting to realize this value in your life right now? "

My response would have been to admit that all I was doing was bitching

about it, nothing more. The ACT therapist could then say, " Okay,so how

is bitching about it and taking no actual action working for you? " And

I'd have to admit it wasn't working very well at all for me!

So an ACT approach would acknowledge that somewhere in my complaint

was a value, without disputing or arguing. My discomfort in the

immediate moment would go up - but ACT could help me acknowledge that

rather than run away from it.