Re: Re: A penny into the wishing well

August 28, 2006

Well, on one level, I agree with the therapist that we can change the way that we think. I just happen to agree with ACT theory that trying to consciously force your mind to change a thought it arrived at unconsciously is a bit like trying to drive back to Europe from the New York because you didn't like the plane trip!It reminds me a bit of a religious lesson I learned as a child. One can look at a spiritual person, and attempt to imitate them. This does not make us spiritual. When we become a spiritual person, however, we find that many of those same qualities that we found so wonderful in spiritual people have somehow become a part of our lives.I find that in my own life, I still have a tendency to attempt to copy the appearance of valued living, instead of really doing it. It is a hard thing for me because I find that in my childhood I learned to get my motivation from other people instead of internal motivation. When left to my own, I tend to imagine

"monsters in my closet" whom I must impress, and these are the most demanding of all taskmasters. Now, the balance I am currently trying to find is truly valuing other people (their opinions, feeling, etc.), and acting on those values instead of the appearance of those values (dependency, kissing up, being a jerk but calling it "tough love," etc.)So far, the best therapist for that has been my 3 yr old. . . it is just so dang hard to lie to kids!homuncu_lie wrote: "I write non-stop,

without editing and with an open mind, willing to be surprised, willing to be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud, and usually get an 'aha' from this!" Thanks for this reminder - I used to (try) to do stream of consciousness writing and it was really helpful. I do A LOT of self- editing, and I end up detaching from myself and writing about what I think my thoughts SHOULD be instead of what they ARE. I've been struggling with being able to allow myself to have very upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. I tell myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, "okay, thank you very much for those thoughts", but it's so hard, and the upsetting thoughts end up getting even more upsetting. I'm also struggling with not criticizing myself for not being "perfect" at ACT - I tell myself I should be

better at it by now. But I would guess that being perfect at ACT is a contradiction. I try to work on allowing myself to be imperfect - but then I end up trying to be perfectly imperfect... > > > > > I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been > > realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support and

> > direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems to be > > (once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous phone > > calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. When I > > read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of therapy and > > yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego, I only > > found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even remotely > > heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing to work > > with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that the only > > problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can change the > > way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we think. > > And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that I have no

> > control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not something > > that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank account -- > > it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word machine > > is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not to get > > caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really being > > part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated but > > things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe people > > were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or > > maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people. > > Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either but I'm > > hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!! > > > > A penny into the wishing well > > > > We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters! > > > > When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively and a > >

great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is > > diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a > > lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine > > meadows - I don't really know the answer here. > > > > I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday soon > > this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and advice > > that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT literature is > > great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we can > > discover what is universal to us all. > > > > > >

August 29, 2006

"So far, the best therapist for that has been my3 yr old. . . it is just so dang hard to lie to kids!"

I know, and sometimes the best examples of ACT for me aremy 3 dogs! I could elaborate on that for pages and pages but I doubt it'snecessary.

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of WillistonSent: Monday, August 28, 2006 9:41 PMTo:ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: A penny into the wishing well

Well, on one level, I agree with the therapist that we can changethe way that we think. I just happen to agree with ACT theory that trying toconsciously force your mind to change a thought it arrived at unconsciously isa bit like trying to drive back to Europe from the New York because you didn'tlike the plane trip!It reminds me a bit of a religious lesson Ilearned as a child. One can look at a spiritual person, and attempt to imitatethem. This does not make us spiritual. When we become a spiritual person,however, we find that many of those same qualities that we found so wonderfulin spiritual people have somehow become a part of our lives.I findthat in my own life, I still have a tendency to attempt to copy the appearanceof valued living, instead of really doing it. It is a hard thing for mebecause I find that in my childhood I learned to get my motivation from otherpeople instead of internal motivation. When left to my own, I tend to imagine"monsters in my closet" whom I must impress, and these are the most demandingof all taskmasters. Now, the balance I am currently trying to find is trulyvaluing other people (their opinions, feeling, etc.), and acting on thosevalues instead of the appearance of those values (dependency, kissing up,being a jerk but calling it "tough love," etc.)So far, the besttherapist for that has been my 3 yr old. . . it is just so dang hard to lie tokids!homuncu_lie wrote:

"I write non-stop, without editing and with an open mind, willing tobe surprised, willing to be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud,and usually get an 'aha' from this!"Thanks for this reminder - Iused to (try) to do stream of consciousness writing and it was reallyhelpful. I do A LOT of self-editing, and I end up detaching from myselfand writing about what I think my thoughts SHOULD be instead of whatthey ARE.I've been struggling with being able to allow myself tohave very upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. Itell myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that Ishouldn't have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, "okay,thank you very much for those thoughts", but it's so hard, and theupsetting thoughts end up getting even more upsetting. I'm alsostruggling with not criticizing myself for not being "perfect" at ACT -I tell myself I should be better at it by now. But I would guess thatbeing perfect at ACT is a contradiction. I try to work on allowingmyself to be imperfect - but then I end up trying to be perfectlyimperfect... > > >> > I'm with you on that thought(and hope). I've only lately been> > realizing how much I reliedon this listserve and the support and> > direction that I got fromit. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems to be> > (once again)falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous phone> >calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. WhenI> > read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new waveof therapy and> > yet in a big and relatively progressive citylike San Diego, I only> > found a few therapists (out of atleast 20 calls) who had even remotely> > heard of it. Ifinally found someone who said they'd be willing to work> >with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that theonly> > problem she had with ACT was that she really believedwe can change the> > way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT aboutchanging the way we think.> > And in fact I realized evenbefore I'd ever heard of ACT that I have no> > control over mythoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not something> > thatyou can read and digest and then draw from like a bank account--> > it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and myword machine> > is LOUD and strong so I need constantreminders in order not to get> > caught up in it. Maybe, likethe last poster, I wasn't really being> > part of the solutionbecause I lurked more than I participated but> > things did get alittle weird here for a while and I think maybe people> > werejust intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or> >maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.>> Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer eitherbut I'm> > hoping it's just a lull cause I for one needit!!> >> > A penny into the wishingwell> >> > We seem to keep gaining members even as wekeep losing posters!> >> > When I first started with ACTlast winter, this list was lively and a> > great support. Idon't want to believe that interest in ACT is> > diminishing orthat people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a> > lull, ormaybe online communities are naturally fragile, like alpine> >meadows - I don't really know the answer here.> >> > I'mstill here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope somedaysoon> > this list returns to the authentic sharing ofexperiences and advice> > that so many of us found so usefulfor so long. The ACT literature is> > great, yet it is onlywhen we are will to risk specifics that we can> > discoverwhat is universal to us all.> >> >> > Yahoo!Groups Links> >> >> >> >__________________________________________________________>>> > The information contained in this email may beconfidential and/or > > legally privileged. It has been sentfor the sole use of the intended > > recipient(s). If thereader of this message is not an intended > > recipient, you arehereby notified that any unauthorized review, use, > >disclosure, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > >communication, or any of its contents, is strictly prohibited. If you> > have received this communication in error, please contact thesender > > by reply email and destroy all copies of theoriginal message. To > > contact our email administrator directly,send to > > postmaster@...<mailto:postmaster%40dlapiper.com>> >> >Thank you.> >__________________________________________________________>>>>>

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August 29, 2006

Well, this is a very interesting distinction. I'd

also add that any good therapist (not just ACT therapist) knows better than

to address content only and get into a reason giving debate. Doing so misses

the gem underneath. This is not just an ACT exclusive way of framing therapy.

It's found with many other orientations (especially existential and humanistic)--and

with clinicians who have done a good deal of their own internal work, who

are very clear about not imposing themselves or acting (selfishly, in my

view) with un-necessary chit-chat or opinion giving. I've been fortunate

enough to experience this firsthand-- had a terrific therapist who was not

ACT trained but was sophisticated enough to not take the bait, (and boy would

I bring in lots of bait), and not dismiss it offhandedly either. Rather,

he would remain mindful of why I was there in front of him, and why he was

there in front of me. He would use my opinions (strong, like yours) and

critiques as an opportunity to explore the larger meaning or lesson found

underneath my presenting concern. He happened to be a psychodynamic (not

psychoanalyic) therapist, one who fully appreciated that the surface issue

provides much therapeutic fodder--is much greater than what it appears, and

provides a powerful way in--a way to reveal deeper patterns or unresolved/unrealized

needs (same as ACT's values). Sadly, I moved and so I no longer see this

person. But this gave me enough hope to know there are really good therapists

out there. So for those looking for a good therapist--don't give up!

Best,

Joanne

usable_thought wrote:

One more post, and then I'm going to shut up and listen for awhile!

Here's what I just posted about traditional therapy:

> When I did a course of CBT about 10 years ago and expressed concern

> about the crappy values of the corporation I was working at,

> my therapist tried to argue me out of my position, saying that

> I was being too judgemental. Looking back it seems clear to me

> that she was defending a status quo in which corporate America

> served as her paymaster, working through the insurance system.

It occurs to me that what she might have been reacting to was the

black vs. white, all-or-nothing thinking I was exhibiting. So in

classic CBT fashion, she might have been trying to coax me into

replacing my dysfunctional thinking with more realistic thoughts that

admitted shades of gray.

However the way she went about it inadvertently reinforced my position

rather than weakened it - I responded very defensively, as the above

makes clear. There were also overtones of her really wanting to argue

in favor of corporations, but let's put that aside for now.

An ACT therapist might have proceeded differently: "So you're saying

you don't agree with the values of the company you're working for.

Okay, so what positive value does this define for you? And how are you

acting to realize this value in your life right now?"

My response would have been to admit that all I was doing was bitching

about it, nothing more. The ACT therapist could then say, "Okay,so how

is bitching about it and taking no actual action working for you?" And

I'd have to admit it wasn't working very well at all for me!

So an ACT approach would acknowledge that somewhere in my complaint

was a value, without disputing or arguing. My discomfort in the

immediate moment would go up - but ACT could help me acknowledge that

rather than run away from it.

August 29, 2006

I introduced my therapist to ACT, by showing him the workbook, and asking him if we could use it in conjunction with CBT, which we were doing - and I think he said "reframing therapy" was also what we were doing (funny I can't remember the exact name of it right now, but I looked it up on the internet and read a couple of books) and it all seemed to dovetail quite nicely together. He gave me some mood logs to use for my anxiety, where I would write down the situation and how I felt about it, then I would write down three positive things about the experience, or three other ways to look at / think about it. I would rate on a scale of 1-10 my anxiety before having the three "positive" thoughts, and then again afterwards. It did bring my level of anxiety down, maybe just by the act of "doing" something. But then when I used ACT for the same thought, and just let it float down the river, I would find that I had the same lessening of

anxiety. I shared several of the exercises in the book with my therapist, and after a few weeks, he wrote down the name of the book and was going to start using it in his practice! Woo hoo! I love it when there is an exchange of ideas, and I felt like I got to "pay it forward". Goldie, now really back to lurkdom Joanne Hersh wrote: *Well, this is a very interesting distinction. I'd also add that any good therapist (not just ACT therapist) knows better than to address content only and get into a reason giving debate. Doing so misses the gem underneath. This is not just an ACT exclusive way of framing therapy. It's found with many other orientations (especially existential and humanistic)--and with clinicians who have done a good deal of their own internal work,

who are very clear about not imposing themselves or acting (selfishly, in my view) with un-necessary chit-chat or opinion giving. I've been fortunate enough to experience this firsthand-- had a terrific therapist who was not ACT trained but was sophisticated enough to not take the bait, (and boy would I bring in lots of bait), and not dismiss it offhandedly either. Rather, he would remain mindful of why I was there in front of him, and why he was there in front of me. He would use my opinions (strong, like yours) and critiques as an opportunity to explore the larger meaning or lesson found underneath my presenting concern. He happened to be a psychodynamic (not psychoanalyic) therapist, one who fully appreciated that the surface issue provides much therapeutic fodder--is much greater than what it appears, and provides a powerful way in--a way to reveal deeper patterns or unresolved/unrealized needs (same as ACT's values).

Sadly, I moved and so I no longer see this person. But this gave me enough hope to know there are really good therapists out there. So for those looking for a good therapist--don't give up! Best,Joanne*usable_thought wrote:> One more post, and then I'm going to shut up and listen for awhile!>> Here's what I just posted about traditional therapy:>> > When I did a course of CBT about 10 years ago and expressed concern> > about the crappy values of the corporation I was working at,> > my therapist tried to argue me out of my position, saying that> > I was being too judgemental. Looking back it seems clear to me> > that she was defending a status quo in which corporate America> > served as her paymaster, working through the insurance system.>> It occurs to me that what she might have been reacting to was the> black vs. white,

all-or-nothing thinking I was exhibiting. So in> classic CBT fashion, she might have been trying to coax me into> replacing my dysfunctional thinking with more realistic thoughts that> admitted shades of gray.>> However the way she went about it inadvertently reinforced my position> rather than weakened it - I responded very defensively, as the above> makes clear. There were also overtones of her really wanting to argue> in favor of corporations, but let's put that aside for now.>> An ACT therapist might have proceeded differently: "So you're saying> you don't agree with the values of the company you're working for.> Okay, so what positive value does this define for you? And how are you> acting to realize this value in your life right now?">> My response would have been to admit that all I was doing was bitching> about it, nothing more. The ACT therapist could

then say, "Okay,so how> is bitching about it and taking no actual action working for you?" And> I'd have to admit it wasn't working very well at all for me!>> So an ACT approach would acknowledge that somewhere in my complaint> was a value, without disputing or arguing. My discomfort in the> immediate moment would go up - but ACT could help me acknowledge that> rather than run away from it.>>

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

August 29, 2006

Hmm..how about starting there--with all the shoulds

and self critiquing? Start writing about that if and when it comes up--all

of it. For example: "I'm now thinking I should write x,y,z". "I now have

thoughts that I'm doing this wrong, I'll never get this right..." And keep

going. I find for me I do much better to start just where I am. BTW, you

may get no "ahas" or any surprises--don't do it for this. Just do for a

way to honor where you are out now.

Best,

Joanne

homuncu_lie wrote:

"I write non-stop, without editing and with an open mind, willing to

be surprised, willing to be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud,

and usually get an 'aha' from this!"

Thanks for this reminder - I used to (try) to do stream of

consciousness writing and it was really helpful. I do A LOT of self-

editing, and I end up detaching from myself and writing about what I

think my thoughts SHOULD be instead of what they ARE.

I've been struggling with being able to allow myself to have very

upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. I tell

myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't

have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, "okay, thank you

very much for those thoughts", but it's so hard, and the upsetting

thoughts end up getting even more upsetting.

I'm also struggling with not criticizing myself for not

being "perfect" at ACT - I tell myself I should be better at it by

now. But I would guess that being perfect at ACT is a

contradiction. I try to work on allowing myself to be imperfect -

but then I end up trying to be perfectly imperfect...

>

> >

> > I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been

> > realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support

and

> > direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems

to be

> > (once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous

phone

> > calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT. When

I

> > read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of

therapy and

> > yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego, I

only

> > found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even

remotely

> > heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing

to work

> > with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that the

only

> > problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can

change the

> > way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we

think.

> > And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that

I

have no

> > control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not

something

> > that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank

account --

> > it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word

machine

> > is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not to

get

> > caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really

being

> > part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated

but

> > things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe

people

> > were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected.

Or

> > maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.

> > Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either

but I'm

> > hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!!

> >

> > A penny into the wishing well

> >

> > We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

> >

> > When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively

and a

> > great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

> > diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just

a

> > lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like

alpine

> > meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

> >

> > I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday

soon

> > this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and

advice

> > that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT

literature is

> > great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that

we

can

> > discover what is universal to us all.

> >

August 29, 2006

Oops--that's supposed to read where you are at

now.

Joanne Hersh wrote:

Hmm..how about starting there--with all the

shoulds and self critiquing? Start writing about that if and when it comes

up--all of it. For example: "I'm now thinking I should write x,y,z". "I

now have thoughts that I'm doing this wrong, I'll never get this right..."

And keep going. I find for me I do much better to start just where I am.

BTW, you may get no "ahas" or any surprises--don't do it for this. Just

do for a way to honor where you are out now.

Best,

Joanne

homuncu_lie wrote:

"I write non-stop, without editing and with an open mind, willing

to

be surprised, willing to be wrong.. And then I re-read it out loud,

and usually get an 'aha' from this!"

Thanks for this reminder - I used to (try) to do stream of

consciousness writing and it was really helpful. I do A LOT of self-

editing, and I end up detaching from myself and writing about what I

think my thoughts SHOULD be instead of what they ARE.

I've been struggling with being able to allow myself to have very

upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. I tell

myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't

have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, "okay, thank you

very much for those thoughts", but it's so hard, and the upsetting

thoughts end up getting even more upsetting.

I'm also struggling with not criticizing myself for not

being "perfect" at ACT - I tell myself I should be better at it by

now. But I would guess that being perfect at ACT is a

contradiction. I try to work on allowing myself to be imperfect -

but then I end up trying to be perfectly imperfect...

>

> >

> > I'm with you on that thought (and hope). I've only lately been

> > realizing how much I relied on this listserve and the support and

> > direction that I got from it. Overly so, apparently, as ACT seems

to be

> > (once again) falling by the wayside for me. I've made numerous

phone

> > calls to find a therapist locally who has even heard of ACT.

When

I

> > read the Time article it seemed like ACT was the new wave of

therapy and

> > yet in a big and relatively progressive city like San Diego,

I

only

> > found a few therapists (out of at least 20 calls) who had even

remotely

> > heard of it. I finally found someone who said they'd be willing

to work

> > with me on it but at the end of the first visit told me that

the

only

> > problem she had with ACT was that she really believed we can

change the

> > way we think. Aargh! ACT is so NOT about changing the way we

think.

> > And in fact I realized even before I'd ever heard of ACT that I

have no

> > control over my thoughts. I'm also realizing that ACT is not

something

> > that you can read and digest and then draw from like a bank

account --

> > it's contingent on continual and diligent practice and my word

machine

> > is LOUD and strong so I need constant reminders in order not

to

get

> > caught up in it. Maybe, like the last poster, I wasn't really

being

> > part of the solution because I lurked more than I participated but

> > things did get a little weird here for a while and I think maybe

people

> > were just intimidated that they might be analyzed or dissected. Or

> > maybe Steve's gentle suggestion to be mindful intimidated people.

> > Anyway, these are my thoughts and I don't have the answer either

but I'm

> > hoping it's just a lull cause I for one need it!!

> >

> > A penny into the wishing well

> >

> > We seem to keep gaining members even as we keep losing posters!

> >

> > When I first started with ACT last winter, this list was lively

and a

> > great support. I don't want to believe that interest in ACT is

> > diminishing or that people are giving up on it. Maybe it's just a

> > lull, or maybe online communities are naturally fragile, like

alpine

> > meadows - I don't really know the answer here.

> >

> > I'm still here and I'm still using ACT every day. I hope someday

soon

> > this list returns to the authentic sharing of experiences and

advice

> > that so many of us found so useful for so long. The ACT

literature is

> > great, yet it is only when we are will to risk specifics that we

can

> > discover what is universal to us all.

> >

August 29, 2006

Hi homuncu_lie,Your beautiful description reminded me of the description of radical acceptance by Marsha Linehan (Linehan, M. Acceptance and Change : The Central Dialectic in Psychotherapy. In Acceptance and Change : Content and Context in Psychotherapy. Edited by C. , Neil S. son, M. Follette, and J. Dougher. Context Press, Reno 1994. Its rather a book for professionals. A very good one !)She describes what she calls radical acceptance with a wonderful metaphor :«Radical acceptance is an act of the total person that's allowing of "this moment" or "this reality" in this moment. It is without discrimination. In other words, one doesn't go around choosing what to accept and what to reject or change. It's not a question about whether one is going to accept this or or not accept it as if there are some things one should accept and others one shouldn't. The notion of radical acceptance is that of "total allowance now." That means that radical acceptance is not simply a cognitive stance or cognitive activity; it is a total act. It is jumping off a cliff. You must keep jumping over and over because you can only accept "in this one moment." Therefore, you have to keep actively accepting, over and over again in every moment. If radical acceptance is jumping off a cliff into the deep abyss, then there is always a tree stump coming out of the cliff just below the top and the minute you fall past you reach out and cling onto that stump. And then you're on another cliff's edge, asking perhaps, "How did this happen?" Then, you jump off the cliff again. Radical acceptance is the constant jumping off, jumping off, jumping off and jumping off, yet again. Radical acceptance is also the nonjudgmental acceptance of the repeated grabbing onto the tree stump.»My mind already tells me it is far-fetched to post this and I'd better stop showing off with my books and citations...OK, let's jump once more and press the «send» buttonCordialement ( = «with heart»)PhilippeLe 29 août 06 à 05:57, homuncu_lie a écrit :I've been struggling with being able to allow myself to have very upsetting thoughts, without judging myself for having them. I tell myself I'm selfish for having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't have them, and I try to just tell the word machine, "okay, thank you very much for those thoughts", but it's so hard, and the upsetting thoughts end up getting even more upsetting. I'm also struggling with not criticizing myself for not being "perfect" at ACT - I tell myself I should be better at it by now. But I would guess that being perfect at ACT is a contradiction. I try to work on allowing myself to be imperfect - but then I end up trying to be perfectly imperfect...

August 29, 2006

I'm grateful you did. I'm sure you've heard of TaraBrach's wonderful book: "Radical Acceptance: Embracing Your LifeWith the Heart of a Buddha"?

From: ACT_for_the_Public [mailto:ACT_for_the_Public ] On Behalf Of PhilippeVuilleSent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 1:29 PMTo:ACT_for_the_Public Subject: Re: Re: A penny into the wishing well

Hi homuncu_lie,

Your beautiful description reminded me ofthe description of radical acceptance by Marsha Linehan (Linehan,M. Acceptance and Change : The Central Dialectic in Psychotherapy. InAcceptance and Change : Content and Context in Psychotherapy. Edited by C. , Neil S.son, M. Follette, and J. Dougher. Context Press, Reno1994. Its rather a book for professionals. A very good one!)

She describes what she calls radicalacceptance with a wonderful metaphor :

«Radical acceptance is an act of the total personthat's allowing of "this moment" or "this reality" in this moment. It iswithout discrimination. In other words, one doesn't go around choosing what toaccept and what to reject or change. It's not a question about whether one isgoing to accept this or or not accept it as if there are some things oneshould accept and others one shouldn't. The notion of radical acceptance isthat of "total allowance now." That means that radical acceptance is notsimply a cognitive stance or cognitive activity; it is a total act. It isjumping off a cliff. You must keep jumping over and over because you can onlyaccept "in this one moment." Therefore, you have to keep actively accepting,over and over again in every moment. If radical acceptance is jumping off acliff into the deep abyss, then there is always a tree stump coming out of thecliff just below the top and the minute you fall past you reach out and clingonto that stump. And then you're on another cliff's edge, asking perhaps, "Howdid this happen?" Then, you jump off the cliff again. Radical acceptance isthe constant jumping off, jumping off, jumping off and jumping off, yet again.Radical acceptance is also the nonjudgmental acceptance of the repeatedgrabbing onto the tree stump.»

My mind already tells me it is far-fetched to postthis and I'd better stop showing off with my books and citations...

OK, let's jump once more and press the «send»button

Cordialement ( = «with heart»)

Philippe

Le 29 août 06 à 05:57, homuncu_lie a écrit :

I've been struggling with beingable to allow myself to have very upsetting thoughts, withoutjudging myself for having them. I tell myself I'm selfish for havingcertain thoughts, and that I shouldn't have them, and I try to just tellthe word machine, "okay, thank you very much for those thoughts",but it's so hard, and the upsetting thoughts end up getting even moreupsetting. I'm also struggling with notcriticizing myself for not being "perfect" at ACT - I tellmyself I should be better at it by now. But I would guess that beingperfect at ACT is a contradiction. I try to work onallowing myself to be imperfect - but then I end up trying to beperfectly imperfect...

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August 29, 2006

This is beautiful Philippe. "Total Allowance Now".

Kinda of what I was saying with regards to private writing but much more

poetic for certain! (I love your language and Linehan has some real pearls).

Indeed, my writing inquiry avails me

this moment of radical acceptance in that I am honoring where I am at this

moment. Jumping off the cliff or clinging

to tree stump--no matter. I am exactly where I am with eyes wide open--

right here, right now. There is no other place we can be.

Best.

Joanne

Philippe Vuille wrote:

Hi homuncu_lie,

Your beautiful description reminded

me of the description of radical acceptance by Marsha Linehan (Linehan, M. Acceptance

and Change : The Central Dialectic in Psychotherapy. In Acceptance and Change

: Content and Context in Psychotherapy. Edited by C. , Neil

S. son, M. Follette, and J. Dougher. Context Press,

Reno 1994. Its rather a book for professionals. A very good one !)

She describes what she calls radical

acceptance with a wonderful metaphor :

«Radical acceptance is an act of the total person that's allowing

of "this moment" or "this reality" in this moment. It is without discrimination.

In other words, one doesn't go around choosing what to accept and what to

reject or change. It's not a question about whether one is going to accept

this or or not accept it as if there are some things one should accept and

others one shouldn't. The notion of radical acceptance is that of "total

allowance now." That means that radical acceptance is not simply a cognitive

stance or cognitive activity; it is a total act. It is jumping off a cliff.

You must keep jumping over and over because you can only accept "in this

one moment." Therefore, you have to keep actively accepting, over and over

again in every moment. If radical acceptance is jumping off a cliff into

the deep abyss, then there is always a tree stump coming out of the cliff

just below the top and the minute you fall past you reach out and cling onto

that stump. And then you're on another cliff's edge, asking perhaps, "How

did this happen?" Then, you jump off the cliff again. Radical acceptance

is the constant jumping off, jumping off, jumping off and jumping off, yet

again. Radical acceptance is also the nonjudgmental acceptance of the repeated

grabbing onto the tree stump.»

My mind already tells me it is far-fetched to post this and I'd better

stop showing off with my books and citations...

OK, let's jump once more and press the «send» button

Cordialement ( = «with heart»)

Philippe

Le 29 août 06 à 05:57, homuncu_lie a écrit :

I've been struggling with

being able to allow myself to have very

upsetting thoughts, without

judging myself for having them. I tell

myself I'm selfish for

having certain thoughts, and that I shouldn't

have them, and I try to

just tell the word machine, "okay, thank you

very much for those thoughts",

but it's so hard, and the upsetting

thoughts end up getting

even more upsetting.

I'm also struggling with

not criticizing myself for not

being "perfect" at ACT

- I tell myself I should be better at it by

now. But I would guess

that being perfect at ACT is a

contradiction. I try to

work on allowing myself to be imperfect -

but then I end up trying

to be perfectly imperfect...

August 29, 2006

Actually, as I sit with this longer, this feels

very active, a sort of continuous willingness, and not quite the process

that occurs with personal writing. Weak analogy-- sorry-- but lovely metaphor

nonetheless!