Re: new to ACT

[Guest guest]

thank you for your reply Serafin, i think its good to

come back to being the authority on my experience and

know what works for you; I can get a little

disempowered by the whole therpay thing sometimes..of

ocurse we have a mind and it can be useful at times,

like deciding if chocolate icecream is superior to

vaniala! hahehe.

regards,

Bel

--- Serafin Gomez wrote:

---------------------------------

Hi Bel, very common situation, for me there is only

one response to your post, let

your experience tell you when thinking is good for you

and when it is not.

warm regards

Serafín

Gday All,

I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment

for dealing

with anxiety.

I am a little confused about a couple of things and I

was wondering

if somone may be able to shine some light.

I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a

treat for me,

but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with

analysing all

of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step

away from on.

What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to

analyse or am I

supposed to never think?

My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse

or reflect when

I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it

is most

tempting to do so. However, there are times when my

mind feels calm

and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But

my mind then

gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you

are thinking

again and you're not supposed to think', I might have

a thought about

behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I

then end up

agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just

a thought' and

then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we

can't exist

without thinking, ie we need to make decisions

constantly, and decide

what direction we want to go in etc and it all

involves thought, so I

am a little confused!

One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have

not got to this

with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means

that I don't

sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and

take time to

understand what is happening in their life, and allow

space to not

have to sort all issues out with people in the exact

moment. These

thoughts really ground me and are based in my

experience but

ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously

perceiving them

to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to

ACT. I take a

fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused

because when I

attend the buddhist centre we spend some time

reflecting and talking

on suffering, and what it means to live a good life

etc, but these

are all thoughts too!

I apologise for such a long post and if this does not

make sense, I

can see that my mind is agitated with it!

warm regards,

Bel

[Guest guest]

Hi Bel, very common situation, for me there is only one response to your post,

let

your experience tell you when thinking is good for you and when it is not.

warm regards

Serafín

Gday All,

I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for dealing

with anxiety.

I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was wondering

if somone may be able to shine some light.

I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for me,

but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing all

of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on.

What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am I

supposed to never think?

My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect when

I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most

tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels calm

and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind then

gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are thinking

again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought about

behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up

agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought' and

then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist

without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and decide

what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought, so I

am a little confused!

One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to this

with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I don't

sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to

understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to not

have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment. These

thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but

ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving them

to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a

fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because when I

attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and talking

on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but these

are all thoughts too!

I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense, I

can see that my mind is agitated with it!

warm regards,

Bel

[Guest guest]

i wish i had an answer for you for as i am very confused also. even

when i thank my mind for having a thought it is me thinking that i

have to thank my mind for having a thought which is a thought???

also i think when i thank my mind for having this thought the

thought goes away and doesnt let me experince the thought i am now

thinking am i doing something wrong because is this thought

suppression.

>

> Gday All,

> I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for dealing

> with anxiety.

> I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was

wondering

> if somone may be able to shine some light.

>

> I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for me,

> but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing

all

> of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on.

>

> What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am

I

> supposed to never think?

>

> My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect

when

> I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most

> tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels

calm

> and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind

then

> gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are thinking

> again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought

about

> behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up

> agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought'

and

> then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist

> without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and

decide

> what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought,

so I

> am a little confused!

>

> One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to

this

> with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I don't

> sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to

> understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to not

> have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment. These

> thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but

> ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving

them

> to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a

> fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because

when I

> attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and

talking

> on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but these

> are all thoughts too!

> I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense,

I

> can see that my mind is agitated with it!

>

> warm regards,

> Bel

>

[Guest guest]

dear jizz,could we look at it this way?"i am having the thought that i wish i had an answer for Bel.""i am having the thought that i am very confused, also"."i am having the thought that i am thanking my mind for that thought.""I am having the thought that i am thanking my mind because i am having the thought that i have to thank my my mind for having a thought.""i am having the the thought that that is also a thought""i am having the thought that when i thank my mind for THIS thought, the thought goes away.""i am having the thought that that the thought that the thought was a thought about a thought and the subsequent disappearance of the thought  means that i can't experience that thought.""now i am having the thought that i am doing something wrong.""i am having the thought that there is a thought in there somewhere which is being suppressed.""uh oh"well, i am having the thought that once we begin to pay attention to discursive mind, a certain amount of uncomfortable confusion arises,  and that this is wonderful.  mind can't think itself out of itself.  it can't think itself to the end of itself or to the heart of itself.  mind isn't anything at all but thoughts.  one after another.when thought starts thinking about thought,  it's an infinitely regressive hall of mirrors.  you have posited a "me" who has the capacity to notice and observe all of this fascinating struggling, and now you might say "i am having the thought that she is having the thought that i am having the thought that someone is having thoughts",  and that can keep mind busy for another hour or so.  and i am having the thought that you have a very wonderfully subtle capacity for observing these gyroscopically proliferating self-referential thought machinations, and i am having the thought that if you keep at the insight meditation component and the bridge and the leaves and so on,  that one day you will sit down and think "i am having the thought  that all of these thoughts are just self-generating insubstantial thoughts,  and it is actually very curious and funny ",  for which thought you may or may not want to generate a grateful thought.and also that you maybe will notice that you don't have to suppress thoughts, or not suppress thoughts,  or fear suppressing or not suppressing thoughts at all,  as if you simply pay attention to them you'll notice that they just arise and disappear all the time anyway with no particular effort on your part.  hypermentation is perfectly normal,  everyone is at it all the time,  alas,  but if the process stops all by itself for a second mind panics...   "hey, look out,  you are losing your mind!  you have lost your train of thought!"   awareness, which you are calling "me",  can observe that thought too.  living inside of hypermentation is everyone's everyday suffering life.  living in awareness of hypermentation is just noticing that the tv is on.  living in awareness  itself is a sort of flip;  in the well-known metaphor,  you begin to be the sky rather than the clouds;  the clouds may be awfully bothered,  but they don't bother the sky.i mean,  when you suppress a thought,  where does it go?  to thought prison?   i don't think you suppressed a thought;  i think that you just allowed yourself to notice that when closely observed in the way you are observing it, discursive mind starts searching for itself,  and when it can't find itself it goes into claustrophobic gymnastic efforts to get to the solid heart of the matter.  which doesn't exist.   confronted with this dilemma, the endlessly cascading process of thinking sometimes just  ties itself in knots and self-destructs for a little while.  as one buddhist teacher said, "welcome chaos as extremely good news."   i wish i had an answer for you for as i am very confused also. even when i thank my mind for having a thought it is me thinking that i have to thank my mind for having a thought which is a thought??? also i think when i thank my mind for having this thought the thought goes away and doesnt let me experince the thought i am now thinking am i doing something wrong because is this thought suppression. > > Gday All, > I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for dealing > with anxiety. > I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was wondering > if somone may be able to shine some light. > > I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for me, > but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing all > of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on. > > What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am I > supposed to never think? > > My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect when > I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most > tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels calm > and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind then > gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are thinking > again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought about > behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up > agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought' and > then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist > without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and decide > what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought, so I > am a little confused! > > One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to this > with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I don't > sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to > understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to not > have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment. These > thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but > ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving them > to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a > fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because when I > attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and talking > on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but these > are all thoughts too! > I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense, I > can see that my mind is agitated with it! > > warm regards, > Bel >

[Guest guest]

Hi Bel,Welcome to the group. I'll weigh in with my personal opinion on your initial post: I hear what you are saying because I am very similar. I started over-analyzing my thoughts years ago as an excuse not to live -- thinking I'm intelligent and if I just solve these problems of mine I can emerge cured and start living my life. That was twenty years ago. If you look at your entire mindset of thoughts and ask how to solve it all or when you should or should not analyze, then you are falling into the same trap again: You are trying to solve your problem intellectually. Whether you are in touch with it or not, it is a scary feeling to let go the desire to over-analyze. You'll be laying down your most comfortable weapon of self-defense against the world (really just against your own thoughts).I try and use my left-brained, analytical side to my advantage now. If I'm going outside to something social, I extensively pre-plan it in regards to ACT. I list

what excuses I may make not to go, reasons I should go, triggers during the event which can remind me to be mindful (taking a bite of food for eg), habits where I am usually fused (when entering a room, wondering if people are looking at me), and a list of opportunities to break habits. I've analyzed myself for so long, coming up with these lists is easy. I read and re-read it a few times, then throw it away and go to the event. When I go to the event, if even in 1% of the triggers/opportunities I am mindful then I consider it a success. If I find myself over-analyzing I just focus on my body sensations or mindfully look around the room. Solving your problems is not the goal. Mindfulness is. If you think about it that way, then you won't even worry if you are over-analysing or not (I hope).I read something interesting the other day in a book. It was something to the effect of "Thinking is not something you do, but it is something which happens to you.".

Whenever I am drowning in thought I think of that sentence again, and magically my identification shifts from being me over to being the passive observer observing the repetitive, predictable, often humorous thoughts passing through me.mathewz310Bel wrote: Gday All, I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for dealing with anxiety. I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was wondering if somone may be able to shine some light. I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for me, but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing all of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on. What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am I supposed to never think?

My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect when I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels calm and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind then gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are thinking again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought about behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought' and then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and decide what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought, so I am a little confused! One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to this with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I don't sweat

the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to not have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment. These thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving them to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because when I attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and talking on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but these are all thoughts too! I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense, I can see that my mind is agitated with it! warm regards, Bel

[Guest guest]

thank you all for your words. I am noticing that I am a little

confused and feeling a bit scared by it all but I have been here

with these thoughts and feelings before. It's funny, last year I had

a bit of an 'existentail melt-down' with all of this stuff, nature

of the mind, life, meaning etc and I ended up conciously making the

decision to just observe the thoughts and feelings coz analysing

them didn't seem to work and the result was eventaul groundedness.

It seems I am able to do this fairly well with existential stuff

(not all of the time) but when it comes to other thoughts to do with

people and my interactions with them I just can't seem to committ

to 'mindfulness' with it, my mind is convinced that it really needs

to think through the situation in order to solve it. Maybe I should

just try it with these other situations and see and let my

experience show me, as analysing all of the time doesn't seem to

work!

Ok, enough now thinking and pondering, out into life now.

thanks for the support, wow I am not some strange thing for

experiencing these thoughts, that's very interesting!

Bel

>

> Hi Bel,

>

> Welcome to the group. I'll weigh in with my personal opinion on

your initial post: I hear what you are saying because I am very

similar. I started over-analyzing my thoughts years ago as an excuse

not to live -- thinking I'm intelligent and if I just solve these

problems of mine I can emerge cured and start living my life. That

was twenty years ago.

>

> If you look at your entire mindset of thoughts and ask how to

solve it all or when you should or should not analyze, then you are

falling into the same trap again: You are trying to solve your

problem intellectually. Whether you are in touch with it or not, it

is a scary feeling to let go the desire to over-analyze. You'll be

laying down your most comfortable weapon of self-defense against the

world (really just against your own thoughts).

>

> I try and use my left-brained, analytical side to my advantage

now. If I'm going outside to something social, I extensively pre-

plan it in regards to ACT. I list what excuses I may make not to go,

reasons I should go, triggers during the event which can remind me

to be mindful (taking a bite of food for eg), habits where I am

usually fused (when entering a room, wondering if people are looking

at me), and a list of opportunities to break habits. I've analyzed

myself for so long, coming up with these lists is easy. I read and

re-read it a few times, then throw it away and go to the event.

>

> When I go to the event, if even in 1% of the

triggers/opportunities I am mindful then I consider it a success. If

I find myself over-analyzing I just focus on my body sensations or

mindfully look around the room. Solving your problems is not the

goal. Mindfulness is. If you think about it that way, then you won't

even worry if you are over-analysing or not (I hope).

>

> I read something interesting the other day in a book. It was

something to the effect of " Thinking is not something you do, but it

is something which happens to you. " . Whenever I am drowning in

thought I think of that sentence again, and magically my

identification shifts from being me over to being the passive

observer observing the repetitive, predictable, often humorous

thoughts passing through me.

>

> mathewz310

>

> Bel wrote: Gday All,

> I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for

dealing

> with anxiety.

> I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was

wondering

> if somone may be able to shine some light.

>

> I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for

me,

> but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing

all

> of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on.

>

> What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am

I

> supposed to never think?

>

> My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect

when

> I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most

> tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels

calm

> and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind

then

> gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are

thinking

> again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought

about

> behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up

> agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought'

and

> then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist

> without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and

decide

> what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought,

so I

> am a little confused!

>

> One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to

this

> with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I

don't

> sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to

> understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to

not

> have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment.

These

> thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but

> ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving

them

> to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a

> fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because

when I

> attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and

talking

> on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but

these

> are all thoughts too!

> I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense,

I

> can see that my mind is agitated with it!

>

> warm regards,

> Bel

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

"

read something interesting the other day in a book. It was something

to the effect of " Thinking is not something you do, but it is

something which happens to you. " . Whenever I am drowning in thought I

think of that sentence again, and magically my identification shifts

from being me over to being the passive observer observing the

repetitive, predictable, often humorous thoughts passing through me. "

Hi thanks for posting this , it is really helpful. I feel inspired to

go and pick up the book again and ignore what my thoughts are telling

me, Dawn.

Gday All,

> I am new to ACT, I am seeing a therapist at the moment for dealing

> with anxiety.

> I am a little confused about a couple of things and I was

wondering

> if somone may be able to shine some light.

>

> I tend to over analyse hence why mindfulness works a treat for me,

> but its a hard battle as I have been so familiar with analysing

all

> of my thoughts and its a pretty tricky thing to step away from on.

>

> What I want to know is, is there ever an ok time to analyse or am

I

> supposed to never think?

>

> My experience tells me that it is best not to analyse or reflect

when

> I am in a state of anxiety, which is of course when it is most

> tempting to do so. However, there are times when my mind feels

calm

> and I am able to reflect on behavior and thoughts. But my mind

then

> gets agitated because the thought comes up of 'ah you are thinking

> again and you're not supposed to think', I might have a thought

about

> behaviour or choice and see things more clearly but I then end up

> agitated coz my mind jumps in and says 'ah that's just a thought'

and

> then I dunno how to make choices! But basically we can't exist

> without thinking, ie we need to make decisions constantly, and

decide

> what direction we want to go in etc and it all involves thought,

so I

> am a little confused!

>

> One of my values is 'understanding' and while I have not got to

this

> with my counsellor yet, understanding in action means that I don't

> sweat the small stuff, allow people to be human and take time to

> understand what is happening in their life, and allow space to not

> have to sort all issues out with people in the exact moment. These

> thoughts really ground me and are based in my experience but

> ultimatly they are STILL thoughts and I am obviously perceiving

them

> to be 'useful and good' which them seems counter to ACT. I take a

> fair bit of my beliefs from buddhism and I am confused because

when I

> attend the buddhist centre we spend some time reflecting and

talking

> on suffering, and what it means to live a good life etc, but these

> are all thoughts too!

> I apologise for such a long post and if this does not make sense,

I

> can see that my mind is agitated with it!

>

> warm regards,

> Bel

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony,

In my opinion, the best way to get started is to get a copy of the

Happiness Trap by Dr. Russ . Read through it carefully at your

own pace. Resist the temptation to rush through it. Practice all the

exercises. It is a very good introduction to ACT and has helped me a lot.

When you feel despondent, keep at it, you will get better and post in

here for support.

Good luck

G.

>

> Hi - I'm new to the group and am interested in applying ACT

techniques to my very longstanding OCD, panic, depression.  I have

been battling for many years and know that it hasn't helped. Having

said that I find it very difficult to face the obsessive fears (which

are popping into my head every waking hour) and to just let them be

there. I habitually push them or any unpleasant negative thought,

idea, image away.   Again, I find it very difficult to allow the

feelings of anxiety - hence I battle with them.  Using the ACT

language I'm a very well practised experiential avoider.  I like some

if the desusion techniques I've raed about - particularly that " my

mind isn't my friend " , " the idea that my mind is like a bad news tv

chattering all the time " - I'd appreciate any advice on starting out

with ACT

>

[Guest guest]

Hi G

Thanks for the note. Because my negative chatter is constsnt I tend

to get despondent with books that ask you to do exercises. For

example in the ACT book I have there is a pain diary that asks you

to record when you are experiencing pain - I'd be filling that in

literrally all the time - which just makes me feel that I'm so

bad 'll never get better - even though I have in the past. Still, I

guess I have to start somewhere?

> >

> > Hi - I'm new to the group and am interested in applying ACT

> techniques to my very longstanding OCD, panic, depression.  I have

> been battling for many years and know that it hasn't helped. Having

> said that I find it very difficult to face the obsessive fears

(which

> are popping into my head every waking hour) and to just let them be

> there. I habitually push them or any unpleasant negative thought,

> idea, image away.   Again, I find it very difficult to allow the

> feelings of anxiety - hence I battle with them.  Using the ACT

> language I'm a very well practised experiential avoider.  I like

some

> if the desusion techniques I've raed about - particularly that " my

> mind isn't my friend " , " the idea that my mind is like a bad news tv

> chattering all the time " - I'd appreciate any advice on starting

out

> with ACT

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can understand how that may be painful. I found with ' books

that the exercises weren't painful to endure. If anything, they gave

me hope and confidence to keep going. I felt like I was achieving

something as I went through it.

Try a few things out and see what works best for you. Perhaps see a

psychologist in conjunction with working with ACT to help guide you

through the process.

All the best.

G.

> > >

> > > Hi - I'm new to the group and am interested in applying ACT

> > techniques to my very longstanding OCD, panic, depression.  I have

> > been battling for many years and know that it hasn't helped. Having

> > said that I find it very difficult to face the obsessive fears

> (which

> > are popping into my head every waking hour) and to just let them be

> > there. I habitually push them or any unpleasant negative thought,

> > idea, image away.   Again, I find it very difficult to allow the

> > feelings of anxiety - hence I battle with them.  Using the ACT

> > language I'm a very well practised experiential avoider.  I like

> some

> > if the desusion techniques I've raed about - particularly that " my

> > mind isn't my friend " , " the idea that my mind is like a bad news tv

> > chattering all the time " - I'd appreciate any advice on starting

> out

> > with ACT

> > >

> >

>