Re: Venting- & & all

February 25, 2008

, I'm not quite sure I completely understand what you are asking but I can only convey my experience with my husband. I don't have any other AS/NT realtionships to compare it to. When I'm not happy or upset about something he said or did I try extremely hard not to "attack" him about it. If I'm frustrated or just need to vent. He has said in the past when I vent about something he thinks I need him to fix whatever it was and and most of the time he doesn't know how. That said I now say I just need to vent and I don't need you to do something about it right now. I just want you to think about it. A small example is just last night at dinner I made a nice meal but he proceeded to take out leftover meatballs and heat them up for himself which bothered the crap out of me so I said to him "That bothers me when you do that it makes me feel like what I make isn't good enough for you" he then proceeded to

put the meatballs back in the fridge and sit down and eat his dinner. It made me realize for a second that it was my issue not his. He just wanted to eat the meatballs.So I said " I know that is not your intention to make me fel that way." No one was defensive no one raised their voice it was a nice change. I heated up the meatballs and we had our meal. Now on the other hand with him its not quite that easy. I try to read between the lines when he says something. He will say something and I know it just comes out not how he meant it to sound. So I just try to be patient and not jump the gun and get angry or defensive myself. I might think about what he said for a few minutes then try to ask him questions that will better clarify it for me. I don't know if any of this makes sense or answers your question at all. I'm sorry if I didn't understand it correctly... My general personality is I feel better after I vent. I don't need it

to turn into and arguement or hold onto it for hours or days but he does. Its not just venting to him he feels he needs to "fix" it. So then he's mad or upset for hours or days. So now I use the other approach and say right up front I don't need you to fix this I just need to get it off my chest. If it is something I want him to address I have turned the story into something else that i know he can relate to. My husband ahad made a remark to my sister about her weight which she does now she's overweight andy he was trying to joke around with her but it just sounded mean. So later that evening after a few hours had passed we had a conversation I told him the next time his sister comes over I want him to make fun of her fat thighs with the cellulite dimples. I'm really not mean but I was tring to get him to see how that doesn't sound nice and you wouldn't say it to someone. So his response was "that wouldn't be very nice to do" the I said " How did you think

felt when you made fun of her weight". And I felt like a light bulb went off I could see it. He said that really wasn't a nice thing to say. He did apologize to my sister. If the situation calls for quick thinking he struggles and feels pressured but i've noticed if he has time to think about and process it. It has a much smoother outcome for both of us. I have seen that when I need to unload its just that but if he needs to unload he's looking for direction or help dealing with whatever it maybe... living and learning everyday Hi and and anyone who knows, I get blind-sided by NTs all the time, when they start venting, and I think they really want help with something, but do not want help at all- just a llistening ear, and a chance to unload. Then, they get up- everything is fine- because they have gotten to vent- as if they were complaining about A, but angry about B, and not allowed to yell about B, so fixing A would not really help, anyway. I understand the mechanism- they really need to fix a thing that they cannot tell you )or anyone) about- they are not allowed to be angry about that- so they complain about something else, just to take off the pressure. I cannot tell when that is going on, all the time. (I know it is happening sometimes). Here is what I know: If it does not make any sense, then maybe it is not true. that is, if the complaints are not that important, then maybe the NT is angry about something else, and cannot say. I sense I have a piece of this, but certainly not anywhere close to all of it! A. What can I do to discern what is going on? B. When is the problem real enough to fix? I mean the stated problem. Clearly, the feelings are real and valid. C. As as ASpie, would it ever be to my advantage to complain about A, because I am not allowed to be angry about B, but an NT would figure it out, help me with what I really need, and get

less offended in the process? I cannot imagine this, but if you give me clear enough ToM, I can apply it anyway. I do not want to do this, unless an NT will clearly understand the communication, and take it the way it is intended. D. Would C., above, ever be practical when there are several people there, and I only want to communicate frustration with a certain thing to one of them- but just have the others know I feel frustrated, and not know more? Do NTs do it this way? Thanks, david bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: stephanie

muska <sceomuska728> wrote: sephanie said: I think some venting is very therapuetic for the NT spouse. To feel that someone else understands the frustrations and the lonliness that our life becomes sometimes. Just sharing that was helpful for me.....Getting it off my chest so to speak...... Hope to hear from you again me here: Venting and sharing is an NT feature. You's need to "resonate" with each other to have a connection, and in time throough communication ,alter that connection. it is a very strong need you's have. . Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

February 26, 2008

, Many hugs from me! You have reached out to your husband in a very hard way, and I believe that you have really given of yourself. How hard that must have been for you! Tell him I say that you are a keeper! Besides the meatballs (and that was really hard to do for you, and it shows there how much you love him!), you explained to him that you just need to vent, so that he realizes that he need not feel badly about anything, but just wait and think about it. I believe that you are really understanding him. Reading your post made my day! What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said

when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asaked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been? stephanie muska wrote: , I'm not quite sure I completely understand what you are asking

but I can only convey my experience with my husband. I don't have any other AS/NT realtionships to compare it to. When I'm not happy or upset about something he said or did I try extremely hard not to "attack" him about it. If I'm frustrated or just need to vent. He has said in the past when I vent about something he thinks I need him to fix whatever it was and and most of the time he doesn't know how. That said I now say I just need to vent and I don't need you to do something about it right now. I just want you to think about it. A small example is just last night at dinner I made a nice meal but he proceeded to take out leftover meatballs and heat them up for himself which bothered the crap out of me so I said to him "That bothers me when you do that it makes me feel like what I make isn't good enough for you" he then proceeded to put the meatballs back in the fridge and sit down and eat his

dinner. It made me realize for a second that it was my issue not his. He just wanted to eat the meatballs.So I said " I know that is not your intention to make me fel that way." No one was defensive no one raised their voice it was a nice change. I heated up the meatballs and we had our meal. Now on the other hand with him its not quite that easy. I try to read between the lines when he says something. He will say something and I know it just comes out not how he meant it to sound. So I just try to be patient and not jump the gun and get angry or defensive myself. I might think about what he said for a few minutes then try to ask him questions that will better clarify it for me. I don't know if any of this makes sense or answers your question at all. I'm sorry if I didn't understand it correctly... My general personality is I feel better after I vent. I don't need it to turn into and arguement or hold onto it for hours or days but he

does. Its not just venting to him he feels he needs to "fix" it. So then he's mad or upset for hours or days. So now I use the other approach and say right up front I don't need you to fix this I just need to get it off my chest. If it is something I want him to address I have turned the story into something else that i know he can relate to. My husband ahad made a remark to my sister about her weight which she does now she's overweight andy he was trying to joke around with her but it just sounded mean. So later that evening after a few hours had passed we had a conversation I told him the next time his sister comes over I want him to make fun of her fat thighs with the cellulite dimples. I'm really not mean but I was tring to get him to see how that doesn't sound nice and you wouldn't say it to someone. So his response was "that wouldn't be very nice to do" the I said " How did you think felt when you made fun of her weight". And I felt like a light

bulb went off I could see it. He said that really wasn't a nice thing to say. He did apologize to my sister. If the situation calls for quick thinking he struggles and feels pressured but i've noticed if he has time to think about and process it. It has a much smoother outcome for both of us. I have seen that when I need to unload its just that but if he needs to unload he's looking for direction or help dealing with whatever it maybe... living and learning everyday Hi and and anyone who knows, I get blind-sided by NTs all the time, when they start venting, and I think they really want help with something, but do not want help at all- just a llistening ear, and a chance

to unload. Then, they get up- everything is fine- because they have gotten to vent- as if they were complaining about A, but angry about B, and not allowed to yell about B, so fixing A would not really help, anyway. I understand the mechanism- they really need to fix a thing that they cannot tell you )or anyone) about- they are not allowed to be angry about that- so they complain about something else, just to take off the pressure. I cannot tell when that is going on, all the time. (I know it is happening sometimes). Here is what I know: If it does not make any sense, then maybe it is not true. that is, if the complaints are not that important, then maybe the NT is angry about something else, and cannot say. I sense I have a piece of this, but certainly not anywhere close to all of

it! A. What can I do to discern what is going on? B. When is the problem real enough to fix? I mean the stated problem. Clearly, the feelings are real and valid. C. As as ASpie, would it ever be to my advantage to complain about A, because I am not allowed to be angry about B, but an NT would figure it out, help me with what I really need, and get less offended in the process? I cannot imagine this, but if you give me clear enough ToM, I can apply it anyway. I do not want to do this, unless an NT will clearly understand the communication, and take it the way it is intended. D. Would C., above, ever be practical when there are several

people there, and I only want to communicate frustration with a certain thing to one of them- but just have the others know I feel frustrated, and not know more? Do NTs do it this way? Thanks, david bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: stephanie muska <sceomuska728> wrote: sephanie said: I think some venting is very therapuetic for the NT spouse. To feel that someone else understands the frustrations and the lonliness that our life becomes sometimes. Just sharing

that was helpful for me.....Getting it off my chest so to speak...... Hope to hear from you again me here: Venting and sharing is an NT feature. You's need to "resonate" with each other to have a connection, and in time throough communication ,alter that connection. it is a very strong need you's have. . Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

February 26, 2008

"What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"Tricky.I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on a particular issue.So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the venting.First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is no different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is very much the same. Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in their coping strategies. NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense that it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things should be able to get to the next phase.This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations. "Wow, this situation really upset you.""I can see this issue meant a lot to you.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in me.""You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in the way you had hoped.""You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had." Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration. There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is very useful, especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are working to understand their issue.(i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in you.")This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered the venting. "What can be done so this doesn't happen again?""These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24 hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right now.""I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)"I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality (imperfection.)Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying, "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive no attention at all." Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.Regards,Anita

February 26, 2008

Thanks, Anita. I actually got quite a bit out of this. You gave me enough of an explanation that I will be able to get creative with lots of it, and not just settle for being a chamelion. I think it's really cool that I can resonate with someone just by caring enough to make it clear that I am listening, even if the person is venting to me, about me. I could deal with you, easily. I once had an NT friend whose way to deal with my social errors was to get angry, and then refuse to speak to me for a time, leaving me scared that communication would be cut off forever. I absolutely hated this, and could never understand why she did this. We were like sisters- we were close friends, but we were not in a relationship in the sense of htis list- both of us were married, and quite straight. Our husbands would just say we were the weirdest friends, when she did this to me, and it freaked me out every

time. This list has helped me get a bit of this "talked" out of my system. When she got to the point where she would vent, I was actually relieved. I have finally gotten to the point in my life where anyone else who ever pulls this on me will get ignored until that person finds me! My friend finally stopped doing this to me a few years back, and then, passed away maybe half a year afterwards. I still miss her greatly, but I do not miss being scared all the time, and being completely unable to live up to her expectations, her temper, and her running away right after she stated that she would never speak to me again (or converyed it by her actions). We are incredibly loyal people, and I was grieved no end. All AS do not want to be alone when trouble hits- though I do need a bit of alone time now and then. I am learning to make eye contact all the time-- it is easier with people with whom I am

really comfortable. With strangers it can be hard. With other AS folk I am not afraid, either, because I figure they are not looking at me too hard, or judging my lack. Thank you for your explanation that it really helps in these kinds of situations. I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off into space, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone of voice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable (newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters in movies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. I just watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enough that I could really see the emotion. Of course, the tone of voice and the story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facial expression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help with every emotion: They

are positive far too often, and I do not get much practice in recognizing negative emotions. I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and just care about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take care of the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and being angry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of human relations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at all the errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, and fresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to an NT...) I like your examples of how to reach out and acknowledge what the other person has to say. We like that too--at least I do, now that I understand it, and know it means acknowledgement. I am still a bit frustrated by how long it takes to fix a social

error. It could take days! At least for you, it would only take perhaps a couple of hours. My friend used to take a day or two not speaking to a person she was angry at, first, and then, finally, get to the venting point, after causing a meltdown in me that was worse than you want to know about. I would never get that frustrated with someone who will talk. (In her defense, she claimed that she was just getting even for what I did to her, but since I never knew what I did to her, and she did not always believe me that I did not know, it was certainly not fair to do that!) I have not deleted any of what you said, because it is all relevant. Thanks again, srabande wrote: "What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"Tricky.I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on a particular issue.So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the venting.First thing is to just let

the venting happen. I feel this is no different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is very much the same. Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in their coping strategies. NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a witches brew of body

chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense that it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things should be able to get to the next phase.This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations. "Wow, this situation really upset you.""I can see this issue meant a lot to you.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in me.""You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in the way you had hoped.""You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had." Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration. There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is

very useful, especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are working to understand their issue.(i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in you.")This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered the venting. "What can be done so this doesn't happen again?""These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24

hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right now.""I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)"I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality (imperfection.)Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying, "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive no attention at all." Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and

closure.Regards,Anita

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February 26, 2008

Gee Anita , 20-30 minutes of venting! Wow, what a marathon! hahah. In all seriousness, I do beleive you have done an excellent job of explaining this... A + for you Janet ZEE good for about 3-5 minutes maybe. "What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"Tricky.I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on a particular issue.So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the venting.First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is no different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is very much the same. Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in their coping strategies. NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense that it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things should be able to get to the next phase.This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations. "Wow, this situation really upset you.""I can see this issue meant a lot to you.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in me.""You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in the way you had hoped.""You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had." Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration. There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is very useful, especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are working to understand their issue.(i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in you.")This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered the venting. "What can be done so this doesn't happen again?""These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24 hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right now.""I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)"I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality (imperfection.)Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying, "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive no attention at all." Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.Regards,Anita

February 26, 2008

claudia, from the way you descibe your late friend, she sounds immature and manipulative to me. People who treat you or anyone else like this do not make reliable friends. I know you are sad because she is gone and I don't mean to be disrespectful, I just wanted to say that I don't think you deserved to be treated this way. I watched Raisin too and was quite impressed with Combs as an actor. I will watch him again and hope he does another movie. jkz not fond of rapThanks, Anita. I actually got quite a bit out of this. You gave me enough of an explanation that I will be able to get creative with lots of it, and not just settle for being a chamelion. I think it's really cool that I can resonate with someone just by caring enough to make it clear that I am listening, even if the person is venting to me, about me. I could deal with you, easily. I once had an NT friend whose way to deal with my social errors was to get angry, and then refuse to speak to me for a time, leaving me scared that communication would be cut off forever. I absolutely hated this, and could never understand why she did this. We were like sisters- we were close friends, but we were not in a relationship in the sense of htis list- both of us were married, and quite straight. Our husbands would just say we were the weirdest friends, when she did this to me, and it freaked me out every time. This list has helped me get a bit of this "talked" out of my system. When she got to the point where she would vent, I was actually relieved. I have finally gotten to the point in my life where anyone else who ever pulls this on me will get ignored until that person finds me! My friend finally stopped doing this to me a few years back, and then, passed away maybe half a year afterwards. I still miss her greatly, but I do not miss being scared all the time, and being completely unable to live up to her expectations, her temper, and her running away right after she stated that she would never speak to me again (or converyed it by her actions). We are incredibly loyal people, and I was grieved no end. All AS do not want to be alone when trouble hits- though I do need a bit of alone time now and then. I am learning to make eye contact all the time-- it is easier with people with whom I am really comfortable. With strangers it can be hard. With other AS folk I am not afraid, either, because I figure they are not looking at me too hard, or judging my lack. Thank you for your explanation that it really helps in these kinds of situations. I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off into space, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone of voice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable (newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters in movies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. I just watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enough that I could really see the emotion. Of course, the tone of voice and the story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facial expression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help with every emotion: They are positive far too often, and I do not get much practice in recognizing negative emotions. I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and just care about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take care of the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and being angry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of human relations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at all the errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, and fresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to an NT...) I like your examples of how to reach out and acknowledge what the other person has to say. We like that too--at least I do, now that I understand it, and know it means acknowledgement. I am still a bit frustrated by how long it takes to fix a social error. It could take days! At least for you, it would only take perhaps a couple of hours. My friend used to take a day or two not speaking to a person she was angry at, first, and then, finally, get to the venting point, after causing a meltdown in me that was worse than you want to know about. I would never get that frustrated with someone who will talk. (In her defense, she claimed that she was just getting even for what I did to her, but since I never knew what I did to her, and she did not always believe me that I did not know, it was certainly not fair to do that!) I have not deleted any of what you said, because it is all relevant. Thanks again, srabande <SRABANDEaol> wrote:"What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"Tricky.I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on a particular issue.So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the venting.First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is no different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is very much the same. Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in their coping strategies. NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense that it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things should be able to get to the next phase.This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations. "Wow, this situation really upset you.""I can see this issue meant a lot to you.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person.""I'm sorry you were disappointed in me.""You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in the way you had hoped.""You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had." Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration. There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is very useful, especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are working to understand their issue.(i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in you.")This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered the venting. "What can be done so this doesn't happen again?""These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24 hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right now.""I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)"I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality (imperfection.)Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying, "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive no attention at all." Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.Regards,AnitaBe a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

February 26, 2008

Writes:

" I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off into

space, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone of

voice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable

(newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters in

movies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. I

just watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enough

that I could really see the emotion. Of course, the tone of voice and

the story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facial

expression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help with

every emotion: They are positive far too often, and I do not get much

practice in recognizing negative emotions. "

Ohhhh I got excited about Raisin in the Sun. Try this! Watch it with

the sound off! Try to sense the emotion without the voices. Then

watch it again with the sound on and see if you were able to intuit the

expressions with the words!

Writes:

" I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and just

care about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take care

of the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and being

angry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of human

relations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at all

the errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, and

fresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to an

NT...) "

Hey! This door swings both ways! I should fill my blackboard with

chalk too! " Do not be too proud, or too testy to listen to AS! I'm

raw and fresh too....but in order to break the cycles we have to start

somewhere.

I'm so glad you were able to glean some things you might find useful

from my post. I'm liking that we are talking about possible

explanations for things, things we can do differently and observations

we've made.

I'm chewing on the concept that NT looking into AS eyes could be like

close scrutiny reveals faults or faux pas or something negative. This

might link up to general NT eye gazing to pick up clues about sincerity,

emotion and focus.

When AS looks away from NT it is viewed as " hiding something "

(translation: lying).

If this is what is actually happening, it's an awesome revelation to me.

Regards,

Anita

February 26, 2008

LOL Janet!I didn't say *I* vented THAT long. hahahahahaOk, well it has happened.Ok, more than once.Ok, sometimes it has happened in 10 minute clusters that can add up to 20 -30 mins!3-5 Minutes? I need 3 -5 minutes to figure out what went wrong with the conversation I had with my husband before I can get to the venting part! LMAO!There are times he stuns me into silence.(I think he's working on perfecting that as we speak!) LOLRegards,Anita>

February 26, 2008

srabande wrote: Writes:"I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off intospace, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone ofvoice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable(newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters inmovies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. Ijust watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enoughthat I could really see the emotion. Of course, the

tone of voice andthe story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facialexpression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help withevery emotion: They are positive far too often, and I do not get muchpractice in recognizing negative emotions."Ohhhh I got excited about Raisin in the Sun. Try this! Watch it withthe sound off! Try to sense the emotion without the voices. Thenwatch it again with the sound on and see if you were able to intuit theexpressions with the words! I did not record it- I will have to get it from the library- but this would be interesting to do! I may have to work up to it- I can barely read faces-- tonight I was glad to see that I can read them better than I did a few months ago. Writes:"I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and justcare about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to

take careof the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and beingangry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of humanrelations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at allthe errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, andfresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to anNT...)"Hey! This door swings both ways! I should fill my blackboard withchalk too! "Do not be too proud, or too testy to listen to AS! I'mraw and fresh too....but in order to break the cycles we have to startsomewhere. Wow! That's great! I'm so glad you were able to glean some things you might find usefulfrom my post. I'm liking that we are talking about possibleexplanations for things, things we can do differently and observationswe've made. I am liking this very much, because that

is how we learn. Scripting is only good so far- we cannot be creative with it. I am so glad you are willing to explain in so much detail.I'm chewing on the concept that NT looking into AS eyes could be likeclose scrutiny reveals faults or faux pas or something negative. Thismight link up to general NT eye gazing to pick up clues about sincerity,emotion and focus. I cannot speak for others, but would not be surprised to find that i am correct about them as well. For me, there are times when I get an awkward fear reaction- like sensory overload- from direct eye contact. When the person is a friend, and I feel completely comfortable, then it is not a problem, since i can remind myself that I do not have to fear. When it is a stranger, it throws off my rhythm completely when it occurs. Since I have begun taking low dose atenolol for high blood pressure,

I have discovered that this fear reaction from eye contact almost never occurs anymore- very rarely. I have even read that atenolol can be prescribed to reduce anxiety in AS folk, but I am not taking it for that reason. When AS looks away from NT it is viewed as "hiding something"(translation: lying).If this is what is actually happening, it's an awesome revelation to me. I am not too sure how to handle looking at a stranger when that fear reaction hits, and my eye gaze is off- I believe that from your post, it is better to look than to look away, since that might suggest dishonesty on my part. (Actually, AS folk tend to be honest to a fault.) However, there are times when to look to long is considered 'staring", and while I get some of these situations right, I do not get them all- about once a day, I feel awkward, wondering if I have stared too

long. Perhaps more than this. Regards,Anita Regards,

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

February 26, 2008

When my AS husband is looking away while I'm talking I just think he isn't interested in what I have to say. Which is exactly what he thinks. I just try not to take it as a personal actin but I don't let him off the hook either. I never tthought that he is lying or even hiding something. I address that and say could you please listen I will be done in a minute and you can go about your business or I just need a few minutes to vent pretend to be interested please.....Most times it works. srabande wrote:

Writes:"I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off intospace, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone ofvoice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable(newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters inmovies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. Ijust watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enoughthat I could really see the emotion. Of course, the tone of voice andthe story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facialexpression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help withevery emotion: They are positive far too often, and I do not get muchpractice in recognizing negative emotions."Ohhhh I got excited about Raisin in the Sun. Try this! Watch it withthe sound off! Try to sense the emotion without the voices. Thenwatch it again with the sound on and see if you

were able to intuit theexpressions with the words! Writes:"I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and justcare about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take careof the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and beingangry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of humanrelations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at allthe errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, andfresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to anNT...)"Hey! This door swings both ways! I should fill my blackboard withchalk too! "Do not be too proud, or too testy to listen to AS! I'mraw and fresh too....but in order to break the cycles we have to startsomewhere.I'm so glad you were able to glean some things you might find usefulfrom my post. I'm liking that we are talking about possibleexplanations for things,

things we can do differently and observationswe've made.I'm chewing on the concept that NT looking into AS eyes could be likeclose scrutiny reveals faults or faux pas or something negative. Thismight link up to general NT eye gazing to pick up clues about sincerity,emotion and focus.When AS looks away from NT it is viewed as "hiding something"(translation: lying).If this is what is actually happening, it's an awesome revelation to me.Regards,Anita

February 26, 2008

, Most days my husband asks me if I smiled today or laughed today and I'm in PA and its almost 8 am and you made me smile today so thanks for starting off my day with a smile.....Now I have to clean the house Ughhhh! As I read your response I was thinking that I try to reach out to my husband for me mostly, I wanted to help him too but I was losing myself and I didn't know why or what to do until I started to research and I came here. These new communication tools have helped me be happy and as a result it helps "us" be happy and makes it alot easier to communicate. My husband just said the other day that he was lucky to have me....I love him even when he makes it hard to do..... My husband and I have a inside joke going whenever he is unsure of how to reapond to someone when he thinks they are attacking him which he works construction so there is alot of joking and jabbing going on he just

never knows when its a joke ot they mean it. Anyway, he will say so and so said this or so and so said that to me my reply is well did you say blah blah blah back and he says I should of said hold on let me call my wife and see what I should say back......Then we laugh alittle...... I think each situation will be different so I;m not sure if maybe you have a specific situation you are speaking about that you weren't sure how to "read" or how to react. IF you give me a situation maybe I can convey aw way to react or read..... Thanks for your kind words Princess wrote: , Many hugs from me! You have reached out to your husband in a very hard way, and I believe that you have really given of yourself. How hard that must have been for you! Tell him I say that you are a keeper! Besides the meatballs (and that was really hard to do for you, and it shows there how much you love him!), you explained to him that you just need to vent, so that he realizes that he need not feel badly about anything, but just wait and think about it. I believe that you are really understanding him. Reading your post made my day! What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, when someone is venting?

is there a socially acceptable way to ask if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence of something I did. I thought that things that were said were permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly been made. Should I have come back later, and asaked if it was real- in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been? stephanie muska <sceomuska728> wrote: , I'm not quite sure I completely understand what you are asking but I can only convey my experience with my husband. I don't have any other AS/NT realtionships to compare it to. When I'm not happy or upset about something he

said or did I try extremely hard not to "attack" him about it. If I'm frustrated or just need to vent. He has said in the past when I vent about something he thinks I need him to fix whatever it was and and most of the time he doesn't know how. That said I now say I just need to vent and I don't need you to do something about it right now. I just want you to think about it. A small example is just last night at dinner I made a nice meal but he proceeded to take out leftover meatballs and heat them up for himself which bothered the crap out of me so I said to him "That bothers me when you do that it makes me feel like what I make isn't good enough for you" he then proceeded to put the meatballs back in the fridge and sit down and eat his dinner. It made me realize for a second that it was my issue not his. He just wanted to eat the meatballs.So I said " I know that is not your

intention to make me fel that way." No one was defensive no one raised their voice it was a nice change. I heated up the meatballs and we had our meal. Now on the other hand with him its not quite that easy. I try to read between the lines when he says something. He will say something and I know it just comes out not how he meant it to sound. So I just try to be patient and not jump the gun and get angry or defensive myself. I might think about what he said for a few minutes then try to ask him questions that will better clarify it for me. I don't know if any of this makes sense or answers your question at all. I'm sorry if I didn't understand it correctly... My general personality is I feel better after I vent. I don't need it to turn into and arguement or hold onto it for hours or days but he does. Its not just venting to him he feels he needs to "fix" it. So then he's mad or upset for hours or days. So now I use the other approach and say right up front

I don't need you to fix this I just need to get it off my chest. If it is something I want him to address I have turned the story into something else that i know he can relate to. My husband ahad made a remark to my sister about her weight which she does now she's overweight andy he was trying to joke around with her but it just sounded mean. So later that evening after a few hours had passed we had a conversation I told him the next time his sister comes over I want him to make fun of her fat thighs with the cellulite dimples. I'm really not mean but I was tring to get him to see how that doesn't sound nice and you wouldn't say it to someone. So his response was "that wouldn't be very nice to do" the I said " How did you think felt when you made fun of her weight". And I felt like a light bulb went off I could see it. He said that really wasn't a nice thing to say. He did apologize to my sister. If the situation calls for

quick thinking he struggles and feels pressured but i've noticed if he has time to think about and process it. It has a much smoother outcome for both of us. I have seen that when I need to unload its just that but if he needs to unload he's looking for direction or help dealing with whatever it maybe... living and learning everyday Hi and and anyone who knows, I get blind-sided by NTs all the time, when they start venting, and I think they really want help with something, but do not want help at all- just a llistening ear, and a chance to unload. Then, they get up- everything is fine- because they have gotten to vent- as if they were complaining about A, but angry about B, and not allowed to

yell about B, so fixing A would not really help, anyway. I understand the mechanism- they really need to fix a thing that they cannot tell you )or anyone) about- they are not allowed to be angry about that- so they complain about something else, just to take off the pressure. I cannot tell when that is going on, all the time. (I know it is happening sometimes). Here is what I know: If it does not make any sense, then maybe it is not true. that is, if the complaints are not that important, then maybe the NT is angry about something else, and cannot say. I sense I have a piece of this, but certainly not anywhere close to all of it! A. What can I do to discern what is going on? B. When is the problem real enough to fix? I mean the stated problem. Clearly, the feelings are real and valid. C. As as ASpie, would it ever be to my advantage to complain about A, because I am not allowed to be angry about B, but an NT would figure it out, help me with what I really need, and get less offended in the process? I cannot imagine this, but if you give me clear enough ToM, I can apply it anyway. I do not want to do this, unless an NT will clearly understand the communication, and take it the way it is intended. D. Would C., above, ever be practical when there are several people there, and I only want to communicate frustration with a certain thing to one of them- but just have the others know I feel frustrated, and not know

more? Do NTs do it this way? Thanks, david bailey <daysbaysyahoo (DOT) co.uk> wrote: stephanie muska <sceomuska728> wrote: sephanie said: I think some venting is very therapuetic for the NT spouse. To feel that someone else understands the frustrations and the lonliness that our life becomes sometimes. Just sharing that was helpful for me.....Getting it off my chest so to speak...... Hope to hear from you again me here: Venting and sharing is an NT feature. You's need to "resonate" with each other to have a connection, and in time throough communication ,alter that connection. it is a very strong need you's have. . Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

February 26, 2008

, me smiling here.....I can relate. A few minutes later......

Now I'm laughing because my husband just walked by and asked me

something. While I was answering, he kept walking away down to the

basement. Now was he listening? I don't think so. But I know he

'got' the info he was looking for and wasn't interested in other stuff

I wanted to talk about, and most importantly, I was messing with his

routine, heaven forbid. I started laughing and he stopped and said

'What?' and came back up the steps. I explained your post and that I

was about to reply and that he graciously offered an example of the

issue. He then told me it was because he set a tape to play while he

was exercising in the basement. During our conversation, he went back

3 times to reset the tape at the beginning before he went to the

basement. On his last trip by me, I said 'quick, get down there

before you miss a note'. He just laughed on the way down. Sometimes

I enjoy messing with his routine because its good for him to break out

of it sometimes.

often looks away, and worse yet, walks away while I am talking

to him. If its important to me, I don't let him get away with it. I

also don't think he is ever lying or hiding anything. He's a

painfully honest person. If the conversation does not directly

concern him, its hard for him to be interested. When I call him on

it, he starts protesting that 'he has things to do' (his routine is

all important). I just look at him, and say nothing, but I'm willing

to bet I have 'The Look' on my face. He looks back and then asks me

to tell him what I need to say. He'll say, " Okay, I'm listening now. "

So yes, indeedy, the man doesn't listen. I just do not chose to

take it personal. Verleen

> Writes:

>

> " I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off into

> space, or worse. I actually get more information out of your tone of

> voice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I now have cable

> (newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch the characters in

> movies that show a lot of emotion, and look at their faces and eyes. I

> just watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight, and the acting was good enough

> that I could really see the emotion. Of course, the tone of voice and

> the story line convey enough for me to get the meaning of the facial

> expression, and then I can practice. Real friends do not help with

> every emotion: They are positive far too often, and I do not get much

> practice in recognizing negative emotions. "

>

> Ohhhh I got excited about Raisin in the Sun. Try this! Watch it with

> the sound off! Try to sense the emotion without the voices. Then

> watch it again with the sound on and see if you were able to intuit the

> expressions with the words!

>

> Writes:

> " I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and just

> care about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take care

> of the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and being

> angry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of human

> relations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to laugh at all

> the errors I have made in my life, but now, it is still too raw, and

> fresh. (Write one hundred times, do not be too proud to listen to an

> NT...) "

>

> Hey! This door swings both ways! I should fill my blackboard with

> chalk too! " Do not be too proud, or too testy to listen to AS! I'm

> raw and fresh too....but in order to break the cycles we have to start

> somewhere.

>

> I'm so glad you were able to glean some things you might find useful

> from my post. I'm liking that we are talking about possible

> explanations for things, things we can do differently and observations

> we've made.

>

> I'm chewing on the concept that NT looking into AS eyes could be like

> close scrutiny reveals faults or faux pas or something negative. This

> might link up to general NT eye gazing to pick up clues about sincerity,

> emotion and focus.

>

> When AS looks away from NT it is viewed as " hiding something "

> (translation: lying).

>

> If this is what is actually happening, it's an awesome revelation to me.

>

> Regards,

> Anita

>

February 29, 2008

I've gotten so much better at making eye contact than even a few

weeks ago. Helps that I have an incredible amount of increase in

confidence in my life. That, and I am becoming part of MeetUp groups

as well. Am going to a Raw Foods group (I am committing to become

fully vegetarian by the end of 2008) on Saturday.

> >

> > " What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end,

> > when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to

ask

> > if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really

awful,

> > at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a

consequence

> > of something I did. I thought that things that were said were

> > permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had

truly

> > been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was

real-

> > in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been? "

> >

> > Tricky.

> >

> > I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting

> > situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your

> > approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.

> >

> > If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep

eye

> > contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always

view

> > eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting

person

> > is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an

> > expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting

is

> > to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on

a

> > particular issue.

> >

> > So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who

is

> > staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily,

or

> > just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like

this

> > would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause

the

> > venting.

> >

> > First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is

no

> > different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are

> > melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the " intent "

is

> > very much the same.

> >

> > Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't

> > require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming,

cursing,

> > door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty

> > common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the

issue

> > still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like

> > being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both

AS

> > and NT would be better off if they developed some modification

in

> > their coping strategies.

> >

> > NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.

> > AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.

> >

> > Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust

> > themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a

> > witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic

acid

> > all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)

> >

> > I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in

about

> > 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense

that

> > it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat),

things

> > should be able to get to the next phase.

> >

> > This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations.

> >

> > " Wow, this situation really upset you. "

> > " I can see this issue meant a lot to you. "

> > " I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person. "

> > " I'm sorry you were disappointed in me. "

> > " You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in

> > the way you had hoped. "

> > " You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had. "

> >

> > Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort

of " rest "

> > knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration.

> >

> > There is a technique called, " mirroring " that is very useful,

> > especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the

> > situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are

> > working to understand their issue.

> >

> > (i.e. Person Venting: " it made me so angry when you just

walked

> > by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and

I

> > can't stand it. " Person Listening: " If I don't stop and say

> > hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest

in

> > you. " )

> >

> > This is what " resonating " is all about. It's a confirmation

that

> > someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an

internal

> > struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is

> > doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.

> >

> > At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever

triggered

> > the venting.

> >

> > " What can be done so this doesn't happen again? "

> >

> > " These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24

> > hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you

further

> > about these things but this feels like a very volatile time,

right

> > now. "

> >

> > " I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that

> > again. " (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)

> >

> > " I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting

like

> > this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen

right

> > now, what would it be? " (Sometimes, these are the words that

end

> > up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality

> > (imperfection.)

> >

> > Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be

> > throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying,

> > " sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than

receive

> > no attention at all. "

> >

> > Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.

> >

> > Regards,

> > Anita

> >

> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!

Mobile.

> > Try it now.

> >

>

February 29, 2008

Janet, It means a lot to me that you have said this. I have really thought about it, and I really need to know you are right, with all my heart, it is manipulative and controlling, and I am beginning to really see that. My head sees it, but my heart still is confused a bit. I have a few feelings at the same time, and I am aware of them- kind of new for me! I do not take your remarks as disrespectful at all, because of the way you phrased this. ---

In aspires-relationships , Janet Zimmerman wrote:>> claudia, from the way you descibe your late friend, she sounds > immature and manipulative to me. People who treat you or anyone > else like this do not make reliable friends. I know you are sad > because she is gone and I don't mean to be disrespectful, I just > wanted to say that I don't think you deserved to be treated this way.> > I watched Raisin too and was quite impressed with Combs as an > actor. I will watch him again and hope he does another movie. jkz > not fond of rap> > > >> > Thanks, Anita.> >> > I actually got quite a bit out of this. You gave me enough of an > > explanation that I will be able

to get creative with lots of it, > > and not just settle for being a chamelion. I think it's really > > cool that I can resonate with someone just by caring enough to make > > it clear that I am listening, even if the person is venting to me, > > about me. I could deal with you, easily. I once had an NT friend > > whose way to deal with my social errors was to get angry, and then > > refuse to speak to me for a time, leaving me scared that > > communication would be cut off forever. I absolutely hated this, > > and could never understand why she did this. We were like sisters- > > we were close friends, but we were not in a relationship in the > > sense of htis list- both of us were married, and quite straight. > > Our husbands would just say we were the weirdest friends, when she > > did this to me, and it freaked me out

every time. This list has > > helped me get a bit of this "talked" out of my system. When she > > got to the point where she would vent, I was actually relieved. I > > have finally gotten to the point in my life where anyone else who > > ever pulls this on me will get ignored until that person finds me! > > My friend finally stopped doing this to me a few years back, and > > then, passed away maybe half a year afterwards. I still miss her > > greatly, but I do not miss being scared all the time, and being > > completely unable to live up to her expectations, her temper, and > > her running away right after she stated that she would never speak > > to me again (or converyed it by her actions). We are incredibly > > loyal people, and I was grieved no end.> >> > All AS do not want to be alone when trouble hits- though I do

need > > a bit of alone time now and then. I am learning to make eye > > contact all the time-- it is easier with people with whom I am > > really comfortable. With strangers it can be hard. With other AS > > folk I am not afraid, either, because I figure they are not looking > > at me too hard, or judging my lack. Thank you for your explanation > > that it really helps in these kinds of situations.> >> > I can see that without your explanation, I might have stared off > > into space, or worse. I actually get more information out of your > > tone of voice than I get from your face, but I am practicing. I > > now have cable (newly acquired), and I am training myself to watch > > the characters in movies that show a lot of emotion, and look at > > their faces and eyes. I just watched A Raisin in the Sun tonight,

> > and the acting was good enough that I could really see the > > emotion. Of course, the tone of voice and the story line convey > > enough for me to get the meaning of the facial expression, and then > > I can practice. Real friends do not help with every emotion: They > > are positive far too often, and I do not get much practice in > > recognizing negative emotions.> >> > I have learned a new coping strategy: Do not be prideful, and just > > care about the other person, and (for me): trust the Lord to take > > care of the situation, if I feel scared by an NT's blaming me and > > being angry. Pride leads to error. AS pride in our handling of > > human relations? That's one thing I gave up on. I will learn to > > laugh at all the errors I have made in my life, but now, it is > > still too raw, and fresh.

(Write one hundred times, do not be too > > proud to listen to an NT...)> >> > I like your examples of how to reach out and acknowledge what the > > other person has to say. We like that too--at least I do, now that > > I understand it, and know it means acknowledgement.> >> > I am still a bit frustrated by how long it takes to fix a social > > error. It could take days! At least for you, it would only take > > perhaps a couple of hours. My friend used to take a day or two not > > speaking to a person she was angry at, first, and then, finally, > > get to the venting point, after causing a meltdown in me that was > > worse than you want to know about. I would never get that > > frustrated with someone who will talk. (In her defense, she claimed > > that she was just getting even for what I did to her, but

since I > > never knew what I did to her, and she did not always believe me > > that I did not know, it was certainly not fair to do that!)> >> > I have not deleted any of what you said, because it is all relevant.> >> > Thanks again,> >> > > >> >-relationships , Princess > > <creativelywired@> wrote:> >> > "What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, > > when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask > > if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, > > at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence > > of something I did. I thought that things that were said were > > permanent, and

took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly > > been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- > > in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"> >> > Tricky.> >> > I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting > > situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your > > approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.> >> > If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye > > contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view > > eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person > > is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an > > expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is > > to release pent up frustration resulting in not having

closure on a > > particular issue.> >> > So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is > > staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or > > just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this > > would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the > > venting.> >> > First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is no > > different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are > > melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is > > very much the same.> >> > Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't > > require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, > > door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty > > common in

NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue > > still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like > > being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS > > and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in > > their coping strategies.> >> > NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.> > AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.> >> > Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust > > themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a > > witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid > > all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)> >> > I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about > > 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense

that > > it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things > > should be able to get to the next phase.> >> > This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations.> >> > "Wow, this situation really upset you."> > "I can see this issue meant a lot to you."> > "I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person."> > "I'm sorry you were disappointed in me."> > "You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in > > the way you had hoped."> > "You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had."> >> > Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" > > knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration.> >> > There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is very useful, > > especially if the venting is directed at

you. Rephrasing the > > situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are > > working to understand their issue.> >> > (i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked > > by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I > > can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say > > hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in > > you.")> >> > This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that > > someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal > > struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is > > doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.> >> > At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered > > the venting.> >> > "What

can be done so this doesn't happen again?"> >> > "These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24 > > hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further > > about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right > > now."> >> > "I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that > > again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)> >> > "I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like > > this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right > > now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end > > up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality > > (imperfection.)> >> > Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be > > throwing a tantrum just

to get attention. There is a saying, > > "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive > > no attention at all."> >> > Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.> >> > Regards,> > Anita> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now.> >> >>

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

February 29, 2008

claudia, I speak from painful experience .. in the past I was attached to some very painful 'friendships' similar to this ... finally, I could not take the frustration and confusion any more and severed the friendship... then I really was able to view more objectively and see the dysfunction of the situation. I said before, and was mostly misunderstood, that no one can hurt you unless you let them.... this is an example of that. Interestingly enough, one of these 'old' friends and I have taken up a friendship again. It is not the same as before; I sense that she has respect for me now, and I am not so needy that I will suffer abuse just to have a 'friend'. How simple it all seems now! Good Luck to you ! Janet ZEE who has some true friendsJanet, It means a lot to me that you have said this. I have really thought about it, and I really need to know you are right, with all my heart, it is manipulative and controlling, and I am beginning to really see that. My head sees it, but my heart still is confused a bit. I have a few feelings at the same time, and I am aware of them- kind of new for me! I do not take your remarks as disrespectful at all, because of the way you phrased this. > >> > "What can I do to be more effective at communicating on my end, > > when someone is venting? is there a socially acceptable way to ask > > if an NT just needs to vent? In the past, I have felt really awful, > > at the words that were said when an NT was venting as a consequence > > of something I did. I thought that things that were said were > > permanent, and took them to heart- as if these decisions had truly > > been made. Should I have come back later, and asked if it was real- > > in a way that gave the NT an out? What might that have been?"> >> > Tricky.> >> > I'm going to offer what I have found useful in NT/NT venting > > situations. You seem so willing to be chameleon'like in your > > approach, maybe there will be a morsel or two in this for you.> >> > If I am with an NT who is venting, the first thing I do is keep eye > > contact. The reason I do that is because NT's usually always view > > eye contact as a quintessential sign of focus. The venting person > > is *usually* venting because they have been disappointed or an > > expectation hasn't been met. The *usual* reason for venting is > > to release pent up frustration resulting in not having closure on a > > particular issue.> >> > So, the last thing the venting one wants to see is someone who is > > staring off into space, otherwise occupied, distracted easily, or > > just plain ole not paying attention. Anything that looks like this > > would be viewed as a repetition of whatever happened to cause the > > venting.> >> > First thing is to just let the venting happen. I feel this is no > > different from how AS wish to be left to retreat when they are > > melting down. The dynamics are a bit different but the "intent" is > > very much the same.> >> > Some might say AS withdrawal is more humane because it doesn't > > require another person to sit through, yelling, screaming, cursing, > > door slamming and many other very demonstrative things pretty > > common in NT's. Others might say being abandoned with the issue > > still broiling and having nobody to talk to about it feels like > > being beaten up by an invisible assailant. I'm thinking both AS > > and NT would be better off if they developed some modification in > > their coping strategies.> >> > NT's want to be heard when they are on overload and venting.> > AS wants to be left alone when they are on overload.> >> > Next phase, in my experience is to let the person exhaust > > themselves. Overload produces anxiety and anxiety produces a > > witches brew of body chemistry. Cortisol, adrenaline, lactic acid > > all play a role in reaching this point (perhaps for AS too?)> >> > I've observed, a venting session usually runs its course in about > > 20-30 minutes. As long as there is eye contact and the sense that > > it's ok to vent (just as it has to be ok for AS to retreat), things > > should be able to get to the next phase.> >> > This would be confirmation and verbalization of observations.> >> > "Wow, this situation really upset you."> > "I can see this issue meant a lot to you."> > "I'm sorry you were disappointed in that person."> > "I'm sorry you were disappointed in me."> > "You had an expectation of _____________ and it didn't happen in > > the way you had hoped."> > "You had an expectation of me, I didn't know you had."> >> > Once confirmation is offered, the venting person can sort of "rest" > > knowing that ~someone~ understands their anger and frustration.> >> > There is a technique called, "mirroring" that is very useful, > > especially if the venting is directed at you. Rephrasing the > > situation back to the person venting allows them to know you are > > working to understand their issue.> >> > (i.e. Person Venting: "it made me so angry when you just walked > > by without saying anything to me, you make me feel invisible and I > > can't stand it." Person Listening: "If I don't stop and say > > hello, or ask how you are doing it feels like I have no interest in > > you.")> >> > This is what "resonating" is all about. It's a confirmation that > > someone is listening, hearing and perhaps understanding an internal > > struggle, or disappointing outcome. Even if the person who is > > doing the understanding is the one being vented AT.> >> > At this point there can be some dialogue about whatever triggered > > the venting.> >> > "What can be done so this doesn't happen again?"> >> > "These are sensitive issues, why don't we put them aside for 24 > > hours so we can think about them. I DO want to talk to you further > > about these things but this feels like a very volatile time, right > > now."> >> > "I was very inconsiderate and I will try not to do that > > again." (ONLY if it is true and not said to placate someone.)> >> > "I care deeply about you and I don't want to see you hurting like > > this, if you could wave a magic wand and have anything happen right > > now, what would it be?" (Sometimes, these are the words that end > > up being the catalyst between, fantasy (perfection) and reality > > (imperfection.)> >> > Some might say this sounds like babysitting someone who could be > > throwing a tantrum just to get attention. There is a saying, > > "sometimes people will seek negative attention, rather than receive > > no attention at all."> >> > Venting is about wanting confirmation, resolution and closure.> >> > Regards,> > Anita> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. > > Try it now.> >> >>Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

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