Re: Update and thoughts about up/down regulation of receptors

[Guest guest]

The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of that upregulates dopamine

receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey it seems like those

people who smoke have a less severe form of PSSD. But it's hardly an

ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

But I'm not convinced that receptor downregulation is the answer.

The antipsychotics cause significant dopamine receptor upregulation

but they are hardly pro-sexual.

JR suggested that a tryptophan depletion diet could upregulate

serotonin receptors but I don't know if that's ever been shown

experimentally.

Vornan

>

> Hi all,

> It has been a while since I updated on this forum. To recap, I was

on

> Citalopram for 2 years, towards the end of the course I developed

mild

> loss of libido, numbing of penis, weakening of erections and

lowering

> of ejaculate volume. Following completion of the course, rather than

> bouncing back, these symptoms steadily worsened over the next year.

> Two years after that, I am unable to achieve erection without

> stimulation, errection achieved is poor, ejaculatory volume is about

> 1/3 previous normal and sensation almost nill. I have seen my GP (UK

> family physician) who referred me to the hospital endocrinology

> clinic. I have seen them 3 times now and had all the usual blood

test

> three times, to confirm slightly lowered T and raised prolactin, but

> all within clinically defined normal range. On my first visit to the

> endocrinology clinic I was told the citalopram may have caused

> persistent side effects. This was overruled by a more senior

> consultant on the second visit, now they will have nothing to do

with

> that theory. I have been discharged with the final medical opinion

> being that I have no endocyrinological problem. The next referral

will

> be to a urologist.

>

> I believe that my history and that of many others I have read

strongly

> suggests the cause of our problems is persistent downregulation of

> either seretonin or dopamine or both receptors in the brain.

>

> It is clear that the UK medical profession does not yet accept that

> SSRIs can cause long term effects.

>

> I hate the idea of experimenting on myself (too easy to make things

> worse), but I have recently taken St s Wart as a mild seretonin

> stimulant and guess what - my sexual capabilities have dropped to

> approximately nothing since doing that. I have now stopped and of

> course am very interested (!) to see if they recover again.

>

> I think a search for means of upregulating those receptors is a

> priority for us now.

>

> There is a lot of scientific evidence for downregulation and its

> consequences (consistent with the above theory). We know of quite a

> lot of drugs that downregulate (including SSRIs, which are highly

> potent in this respect), but I can find nothing substantial on

> upregulation of either serotonin or dopamine receptors.

>

> Any ideas or comments?

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, JR.

My St s Wort was from Grampian Health Foods in Aberdeen (a fine

wee shop), but really it is produced for Gemini Health Care PO Box 92

Keighley BD206EW. It is 334 mg extract (super strength) per tab.

K.

[Guest guest]

Nicotine. That concurs with my experience (perhaps also with the spliff effect

that I reported

on previously).

>

> The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of that upregulates dopamine

> receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey it seems like those

> people who smoke have a less severe form of PSSD. But it's hardly an

> ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

[Guest guest]

FYI, St Wort is thought be an SSRI, like Prozac/Paxil/Zoloft, etc.

>

> Thanks, JR.

> My St s Wort was from Grampian Health Foods in Aberdeen (a fine

> wee shop), but really it is produced for Gemini Health Care PO Box 92

> Keighley BD206EW. It is 334 mg extract (super strength) per tab.

>

> K.

>

[Guest guest]

FYI, St Wort is thought be an SSRI, like Prozac/Paxil/Zoloft, etc.

>

> Thanks, JR.

> My St s Wort was from Grampian Health Foods in Aberdeen (a fine

> wee shop), but really it is produced for Gemini Health Care PO Box 92

> Keighley BD206EW. It is 334 mg extract (super strength) per tab.

>

> K.

>

[Guest guest]

Do you smoke?

> >

> > The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of that upregulates

dopamine

> > receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey it seems like those

> > people who smoke have a less severe form of PSSD. But it's hardly

an

> > ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

>

[Guest guest]

There are really two major issues when it come to receptors:

up/dowregulation and re/desensitization.

For example " downregulation " refers to a decrease in the number of

receptors and this would be accomplished by decreased production of

mRNA (decreased gene expression), or possibly decreased translation .

" Desensitization " refers to a decrease in the sensitivity of the

receptor that is independent of the number of receptors. This is

most likely caused by changes in the expression of *other* genes that

interact with the 5HT receptors such as G-proteins. Or it could be

even more complicated than that and involve intracellular signalling.

Overall I think it's probably a combination of things.

Vornan

>

> Vornan, could you please explain the difference/relationship

between gene-expression

> for receptors and up/down regulation of receptors?

>

> Thank you very much,

>

> JR

>

>

>

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > > It has been a while since I updated on this forum. To recap, I

was

> > on

> > > Citalopram for 2 years, towards the end of the course I

developed

> > mild

> > > loss of libido, numbing of penis, weakening of erections and

> > lowering

> > > of ejaculate volume. Following completion of the course, rather

than

> > > bouncing back, these symptoms steadily worsened over the next

year.

> > > Two years after that, I am unable to achieve erection without

> > > stimulation, errection achieved is poor, ejaculatory volume is

about

> > > 1/3 previous normal and sensation almost nill. I have seen my

GP (UK

> > > family physician) who referred me to the hospital endocrinology

> > > clinic. I have seen them 3 times now and had all the usual

blood

> > test

> > > three times, to confirm slightly lowered T and raised

prolactin, but

> > > all within clinically defined normal range. On my first visit

to the

> > > endocrinology clinic I was told the citalopram may have caused

> > > persistent side effects. This was overruled by a more senior

> > > consultant on the second visit, now they will have nothing to

do

> > with

> > > that theory. I have been discharged with the final medical

opinion

> > > being that I have no endocyrinological problem. The next

referral

> > will

> > > be to a urologist.

> > >

> > > I believe that my history and that of many others I have read

> > strongly

> > > suggests the cause of our problems is persistent downregulation

of

> > > either seretonin or dopamine or both receptors in the brain.

> > >

> > > It is clear that the UK medical profession does not yet accept

that

> > > SSRIs can cause long term effects.

> > >

> > > I hate the idea of experimenting on myself (too easy to make

things

> > > worse), but I have recently taken St s Wart as a mild

seretonin

> > > stimulant and guess what - my sexual capabilities have dropped

to

> > > approximately nothing since doing that. I have now stopped and

of

> > > course am very interested (!) to see if they recover again.

> > >

> > > I think a search for means of upregulating those receptors is a

> > > priority for us now.

> > >

> > > There is a lot of scientific evidence for downregulation and its

> > > consequences (consistent with the above theory). We know of

quite a

> > > lot of drugs that downregulate (including SSRIs, which are

highly

> > > potent in this respect), but I can find nothing substantial on

> > > upregulation of either serotonin or dopamine receptors.

> > >

> > > Any ideas or comments?

> > >

> > > .

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I just started again, yesterday. But small cigars, and I do not get addicted.

for some

reason.

> > >

> > > The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of that upregulates

> dopamine

> > > receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey it seems like those

> > > people who smoke have a less severe form of PSSD. But it's hardly

> an

> > > ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Yes!!! Especially combined with *performance work stress* (and of course with

5-10 mg

Levitra). It gives me contraction and tingly feeling of the skin of the

testicles and some

general stimulation of sex organ (without the need for tactile stimulation, the

Levitra

doesn't do this, it mainly gives blood flow). I also reported some effect of a

combination of

Ginkgo biloba, Tribulus terrestris, and Yohimbe, but that is hardly worth the

trouble for

me, it does have some effect on penis liveliness/volume (perhaps mainly the

Ginkgo giving

blood flow?). I think I might give the fluid Horny Goat Weed from Lewtress

another go

(made with live " Kombucha " ) (www.lewtress.co.uk), because I think it might have

had some

effect on actual libido, as in feeling of arousal coming from the within the

body (or

prostate?) into the sex organs.

> > > > >

> > > > > The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of

> > that upregulates

> > > dopamine

> > > > > receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey

> > it seems like those

> > > > > people who smoke have a less severe form of

> > PSSD. But it's hardly

> > > an

> > > > > ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

I am new here... I was referred to this group from a group on ivillage... I was put on paxil about 10 years ago when I was going through a very difficult divorce. I only took it for about 6 months, but I have experienced most of the sexual side effects that you all mention. Much lower libido... emotional flat lining... almost impossible to reach orgasm/ejaculate... I have already read some things that I intend to discuss with a doctor. I look forward to learning a great deal from you all. Thanks. Jim

Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

what's " performance work stress " ?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The only relatively safe drug I'm aware of

> > > that upregulates

> > > > dopamine

> > > > > > receptors is nicotine. In an informal survey

> > > it seems like those

> > > > > > people who smoke have a less severe form of

> > > PSSD. But it's hardly

> > > > an

> > > > > > ideal cure - even nicorette isn't healthy.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> >

> > __________________________________________________

> >